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tv   BBC News  BBC News  September 13, 2021 2:00pm-5:01pm BST

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this is bbc news. i'm lukwesa burak. the headlines: covid vaccines for 12—15—year—olds have just been approved shortly by the four uk chief medical officers. they say it should mean fewer children should have their education disrupted this year. nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland may have broken the rules on travel quarantine at a time when the delta variant was spreading. the nhs starts trials of a revolutionary new blood test that detects more than 50 types of cancer before the patient has any symptoms. the bbc obtains new evidence that the taliban are killing civilians in afghanistan. nicola sturgeon says the success of other small european countries shows that independence could work
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for scotland as well. and what's next for emma? british tennis legends offer their advice to the teen queen, emma raducanu. good afternoon. in the past few minutes, the four chief medical officers for the uk have recommended that all children aged 12 to 15 years old should be offered one dose of the pfizer covid vaccine. the decision comes after scientific advisers serving onjoint committee for vaccination and immunisation said the vaccine only offered
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a "marginal" health benefit for that age group and could not be recommended on health grounds alone. well, ministers are now expected to back the new recommendation as part of the covid winter plan the prime minister will set out tomorrow. let's discuss this further and get more detail. with me now is our health correspondent anna collinson. take us through the details. the element up until now only 12 to 15—year—olds with underlying health is—year—olds with underlying health conditions were allowed to have a covid—i9 vaccine, and only conditions were allowed to have a covid-19 vaccine, and only people livin: with covid-19 vaccine, and only people living with someone _ covid-19 vaccine, and only people living with someone with - covid-19 vaccine, and only people | living with someone with increased risk of coronavirus became eligible around the 19th ofjuly but over the summer pressure has been mounting for that to become more universal. many other vaccine programmes in other countries have overtaken the uk, for example the us, canada, spain, and one of the main reasons is because they are vaccinating all young teenagers. there was shock about ten days ago when as you
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mentioned the uk's advisory panel said that while the health benefits are marginally greater when vaccinating this age group, basically the potential harms only slightly... it only slightly outweighs the potential harms, the benefits, and it didn't recommend a universal approach. what is significant about the saturn is this has been passed on to the uk's four chief health ministers and they have been asked to look at the wider impacts on children and all young teenagers and after speaking to a range of experts from across the uk directors of public health say it is right to offer one dose at the —— of the pfizer vaccine, and that that will make a material difference. no second dose will be offered before the spring term. second dose will be offered before the spring term-— second dose will be offered before the spring term. when you say wider im acts, the spring term. when you say wider impacts. anna. _ the spring term. when you say wider impacts, anna, does _ the spring term. when you say wider impacts, anna, does that _ the spring term. when you say wider impacts, anna, does that go - the spring term. when you say wider impacts, anna, does that go along i impacts, anna, does that go along the lines of what we heard earlier today? it the lines of what we heard earlier toda ? ., , the lines of what we heard earlier toda ? . , . ., , the lines of what we heard earlier toda? ., ..,, ., the lines of what we heard earlier toda? today? it really echoes what jeff was saying- _ today? it really echoes what jeff was saying. his _ today? it really echoes what jeff was saying. his point _ today? it really echoes what jeff
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was saying. his point was - today? it really echoes what jeff was saying. his point was that i today? it really echoes what jeff - was saying. his point was that while the health benefits or taking the health element into consideration is important, it was almost a bit too narrow the way the jcvi approach this, that you really need to be taking other things into consideration like education. the devastating impact disruption has had both on learning, physical and mental health development, both in the short term and the long term, and that is what the four chief medical officers are saying, that is the thing they really focused on, and that they hope that by vaccinating and allowing one dose, this universal approach to all children aged between 12 and 15, that will limit the amount of disruption, notjust protecting the individual child but also their classmates. i individual child but also their classmates.— individual child but also their classmates. ~ ., ., ., ., classmates. i know we have not had the detail and _ classmates. i know we have not had the detail and formal— classmates. i know we have not had the detail and formal confirmation l the detail and formal confirmation yet, but how is it likely to be rolled out? who will be in charge of this? g, rolled out? who will be in charge of this? �* ., , , ., , this? a really good question. first and foremost, _ this? a really good question. first and foremost, this _ this? a really good question. first and foremost, this is _ this? a really good question. first and foremost, this is advice - this? a really good question. first and foremost, this is advice from | and foremost, this is advice from the four chief medical officers and has already been approved by the regulator, but we still need to get approval from the ministers. regulator, but we still need to get approvalfrom the ministers. they still need to give it the go—ahead.
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we're pretty sure that will happen. the health secretary sajid javid recently said it was i guess that they wanted the nhs to be ready to go straight forward. so —— if it was a yes. so if we had the approval from ministers, it will then be rolled out. aha, from ministers, it will then be rolled out-— from ministers, it will then be rolled out. �* ., ., , ., , rolled out. a lot of questions -- and other— rolled out. a lot of questions -- and other people _ rolled out. a lot of questions -- and other people have - rolled out. a lot of questions -- and other people have been - rolled out. a lot of questions -- i and other people have been asking rolled out. a lot of questions -- - and other people have been asking in the build—up to this, consent. one of the key issues here? this the build-up to this, consent. one of the key issues here?— of the key issues here? this is a concern for _ of the key issues here? this is a concern for anyone _ of the key issues here? this is a concern for anyone working - of the key issues here? this is a concern for anyone working in i of the key issues here? this is a concern for anyone working in a | concern for anyone working in a school, this is an issue. what they are saying is parental consent will be required but then there is that sort of tricky issue of what if a parent doesn't say no and a child wants it? what we heard earlier was thatjett said the schools really don't want to get involved in that, that they hope that what will happen, it will be a conversation between the parent and child, but also stressed that there is overwhelmingly positive reaction and response to vaccination so he didn't seem to think it would be a huge issue, but it will be something to watch. �* , .
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watch. and the principal he mentioned _ watch. and the principal he mentioned as _ watch. and the principal he mentioned as well - watch. and the principal he mentioned as well stop - watch. and the principal he mentioned as well stop we | watch. and the principal he - mentioned as well stop we will leave it there, anna collinson. thank you very much as well. let's talk to our political correspondent ione wells. hello, we are expecting this to be approved. is there widespread support for this? —— hello, approved. is there widespread support forthis? —— hello, ione. yes, as we heard from anna, this is the advice _ yes, as we heard from anna, this is the advice put forward by the chief medical_ the advice put forward by the chief medical officers after being asked to look_ medical officers after being asked to look at— medical officers after being asked to look at different factors and arguments for it. the expectation is that is_ arguments for it. the expectation is that is likely to be approved, but as that is likely to be approved, but as she _ that is likely to be approved, but as she touched on, as we have seen throughout— as she touched on, as we have seen throughout the pandemic the scientist providing the scientific adviser— scientist providing the scientific adviser ministers then make decisions _ adviser ministers then make decisions based on that, but that is our expectation, and we are expecting this really is kind of a wider_ expecting this really is kind of a wider toot— expecting this really is kind of a wider tool box we are expecting the prime _ wider tool box we are expecting the prime minister to announce tomorrow about— prime minister to announce tomorrow about how— prime minister to announce tomorrow about how they plan to tackle covid going _ about how they plan to tackle covid going into — about how they plan to tackle covid going into the winter. that's largeiy— going into the winter. that's largely because we know the nhs faces— largely because we know the nhs faces potentially a bit of a sort of triple _ faces potentially a bit of a sort of triple threat going into this winter
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with rising — triple threat going into this winter with rising coronavirus cases but also _ with rising coronavirus cases but also concerns around flu and also of course _ also concerns around flu and also of course that — also concerns around flu and also of course that backlog of procedures that have — course that backlog of procedures that have built up because of the pandemic— that have built up because of the pandemic as well. so we are expecting to moor the prime minister will set _ expecting to moor the prime minister will set out _ expecting to moor the prime minister will set out for detail about his plan _ will set out for detail about his plan to— will set out for detail about his plan to tackle coronavirus through the winter— plan to tackle coronavirus through the winter in england, and that will include _ the winter in england, and that will include things like the government's decisions _ include things like the government's decisions on vaccinating children, but also — decisions on vaccinating children, but also government decisions on hooster— but also government decisions on boosterjabs. we know this is something which, again, that independent committee, the jcvi, have been— independent committee, the jcvi, have been looking at, so the government will be considering the advice _ government will be considering the advice they have been given by the w advice they have been given by the val and _ advice they have been given by the jcvi and are expected to give an update — jcvi and are expected to give an update on — jcvi and are expected to give an update on that tomorrow as well about— update on that tomorrow as well about who will be eligible for any hooster— about who will be eligible for any boosterjabs, the expectation being that the _ boosterjabs, the expectation being that the elderly will be the ones eligible — that the elderly will be the ones eligible first. we are also expecting him to announce further measures— expecting him to announce further measures and contingency plans if the nhs _ measures and contingency plans if the nhs at any point throughout the winter— the nhs at any point throughout the winter is _ the nhs at any point throughout the winter is at risk of becoming overwhelmed, things like potentially increased _ overwhelmed, things like potentially increased use of face coverings and other— increased use of face coverings and other kind — increased use of face coverings and other kind of behavioural changes like social— other kind of behavioural changes like social distancing which ministers may be needing to use if cases— ministers may be needing to use if cases do— ministers may be needing to use if cases do kind of rapidly rise going
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forward _ cases do kind of rapidly rise going forward. of course we know as well that there — forward. of course we know as well that there are certain things ministers are really keen to avoid. we know— ministers are really keen to avoid. we know yesterday the health secretary sajid javid was very keen to stress _ secretary sajid javid was very keen to stress that in england they won't be going _ to stress that in england they won't be going ahead with plans for vaccine — be going ahead with plans for vaccine passports at the end of this month, _ vaccine passports at the end of this month, although we do know that is something _ month, although we do know that is something they are keeping in reserve — something they are keeping in reserve if— something they are keeping in reserve if cases do escalate again, and they— reserve if cases do escalate again, and they may need to introduce certification again in future. we also _ certification again in future. we also know— certification again in future. we also know there is a really strong message — also know there is a really strong message we are expected from the prime _ message we are expected from the prime minister tomorrow, something we heard _ prime minister tomorrow, something we heard from sajid javid health secretary yesterday as well, that all uk _ secretary yesterday as well, that all uk ministers right now are very keen_ all uk ministers right now are very keen to _ all uk ministers right now are very keen to avoid further lockdowns, although— keen to avoid further lockdowns, although they will very much be retaining — although they will very much be retaining the ability to do so as a last resort — retaining the ability to do so as a last resort if necessary.- retaining the ability to do so as a last resort if necessary. going back to the recommendation _ last resort if necessary. going back to the recommendation for- last resort if necessary. going back to the recommendation for 12 - last resort if necessary. going back to the recommendation for 12 to i to the recommendation for 12 to 15—year—olds to receive a vaccine, will this be rolled out across all four nations?— will this be rolled out across all four nations? this is something obviously. _ four nations? this is something obviously. a — four nations? this is something obviously, a decision, - four nations? this is something i obviously, a decision, announced four nations? this is something - obviously, a decision, announced by the four— obviously, a decision, announced by the four chief medical officers of the four chief medical officers of the uk, — the four chief medical officers of the uk, for england, scotland, wales
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and northern ireland there. as ever, with the _ and northern ireland there. as ever, with the roll—out of the vaccination programme this is something which the devolved governments will be able to _ the devolved governments will be able to make their own decisions on as well— able to make their own decisions on as well but— able to make their own decisions on as well but expectation being that all governments keen to listen to the advice — all governments keen to listen to the advice from their independent chief medical officers. gk, the advice from their independent chief medical officers.— chief medical officers. 0k, ione wells, thank— chief medical officers. 0k, ione wells, thank you _ chief medical officers. 0k, ione wells, thank you very _ chief medical officers. 0k, ione wells, thank you very much - chief medical officers. 0k, ione - wells, thank you very much indeed. nearly a third of people arriving in england and northern ireland as the coronavirus delta variant took hold may have broken quarantine rules. more than 300,000 cases were passed to investigators between march and may, according to figures seen by the bbc. our political correspondent alex forsyth has the background. you need to cast your mind back to spring of this year, when we had just been through that winter wave of covid, and the vaccine programme was being rolled out across the united kingdom. the government introduced travel rules to try to limit the spread of new variants coming into the country. it meant you could only travel if it was essential, and if you went to a higher—risk
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red country, when you came back, you had to quarantine in a hotel. most other passengers had to quarantine at home for ten days. they were subject to a series of phone calls and text messages to check they were doing so, but we have obtained figures, using the freedom of information act, which show that, in more than 300,000 cases, there were doubts that people were following those rules. it might have been that when they were called they didn't answer the phone, or they hung up, or they refused to co—operate, or there was another signal that raised suspicion. they were then referred on for further checks, which might have been a visit from a police officer at home, or a private firm, which was employed by the home office to carry out these checks during that process. the home office has told us that it did visit 99% of the cases that were referred to it, and what it has not said is how many people were found to be sticking to the rules, allowing that variant to take hold more quickly. they say it is further evidence of what they call a failed border, and how many people couldn't be traced at all.
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that was alex forsyth. just to bring you an update on this developing story continuing vaccination roll—out to 12 to 15—year—olds. the four chief medical officers for the uk have of course recommended children in that age group should be offered one dose of the pfizer vaccine. a little bit more on this. the uk chief medical officer is going on to say that advice on the second doses for children aged 12—15 will not be given before spring, so we are starting to get a bit more detail. nick eardley, a political correspondent, also confirming a spokesperson for the department of health and social care has said that, we have received advice from the four chief medical officers to
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vaccinate young people aged 12—15 and we will set out the government's decision shortly. i'm not too sure about the timeframe for that, but as soon as we get that we will bring that to you. the nhs is beginning trials today of a revolutionary blood test that could detect more than 50 types of cancer before symptoms even appear. it works by detecting chemical changes in fragments of genetic code. 140,000 volunteers aged between 50 and 77 are being recruited in england to see how well the test works over the next few years. our health correspondent dominic hughes reports the sooner a cancer can be detected and treated, the greater the chances are the patient will make a good recovery. but some cancers are hard to spot in the early stages, including those in the head and neck, bowel, lung, pancreas and throat. so now a huge clinical trial
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is starting in england to see whether a new blood test can identify more than 50 types of cancer before symptoms become obvious. from today, we will be inviting people to come for blood tests in convenient locations like retail parks, and i would just say to anyone who receives a letter or receives an invitation, please do take it up and become part of this world first trial. this cancer blood test is the largest clinical trial of its kind. 140,000 volunteers are being asked to take part. they will be drawn from people aged 50 to 77, from a variety of backgrounds and ethnicities. if early trial results are promising, a further million people will be enrolled in 202a. there is a lot of potential here, that it could detect not only a range of different cancers but potentially some of them at an earlier stage. but it's crucial that we actually do now test the research and test on a much bigger scale, in this research trial, and work out whether it can
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detect cancer earlier, whether it can reduce the stage and, crucially, that it can do that without causing undue harms to people. the first volunteers have been giving blood samples this morning at a retail park in runcorn, in cheshire. it seems a good opportunity to become involved with something. sadly, most of us are touched by cancer at some time in our lives and, actually, early detection is one thing that's going to help in our armoury against that. scientists have been trying to develop a cancer detecting blood test for years. but previous efforts produced too many false results. researchers say if the promise of this simple test is fulfilled, it could mark the beginning of a revolution in cancer treatment. dominic hughes, bbc news. the bbc has obtained and verified footage showing civilians being killed by the taliban in afghanistan. the bbc has confirmed that more than 20 people have been killed
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in panjshir province where the taliban have been fighting opposition forces. a taliban spokesperson has denied such killings are taking place. you may find some of the details in our correspondent yalda hakim's report distressing. this bazaar is famous across panjshir valley, and always bustling. now, it's empty and a ghost town. since the taliban entered the valley, people have taken flight. it used to be the home of resistance, but this now appears futile. people have locked their doors and fled and that's not surprising, when people are being shot dead on the side of the street. the bbc has verified this video, which you may find distressing. here, a man in military clothes is dragged away. it is unclear whether he was in the army. this is common dress in the valley. voices are raised. seconds later, he is shot several times and killed.
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we are not showing you those images. a bystander insists the man they have just killed was not in the military. the bbc has confirmed that more than 20 people have been killed since the taliban entered panjshir province. one of them was this shopkeeper and father of two called abdul sami. his family want his name and story to be known. a taliban spokesperson denies civilians are being targeted. when the taliban entered the valley, they promised peace and stability. translation: they should come out, do their daily activities. _ if they are shopkeepers, they can go to their shops. if they are farmers, they can go to their farms. we are here to protect them, their lives and their families. but these pictures show that people are not waiting to see if the taliban keep their promises. with telecommunications cut in the valley, it is hard
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to get information out. but the international community has warned that taliban they are watching and they will be held accountable for their actions. yalda hakim, bbc news. north korea is claiming to have successfully test—fired two new long—range cruise missiles capable of hitting japan. these pictures were released by the north korean state media, accompanying reports that the missiles — launched this weekend — flew more than 900 miles before hitting their targets. the united states has described the tests as a "strategic threat". let's take a look at the headlines on bbc news... covid vaccines for 12—15—year—olds have been approved by the four uk chief medical officers. they say one dose of the pfizerjab would mean fewer children
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would have their education disrupted this year. nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland may have broken the rules on travel quarantine at a time when the delta variant was spreading. the nhs starts trials of a revolutionary new blood test that detects more than 50 types of cancer before the patient has any symptoms. scotland's first minister nicola sturgeon says the time for a second vote on scottish independence is approaching. delivering the closing speech at her party's virtual conference, ms sturgeon said she intended to offer a legal referendum to the scottish people by the end of 2023, if the pandemic is over. in measure after measure after measure, the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive. independence works. it works for
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denmark, for ireland, austria, norway, finland and for so many others decide. these are disparate countries with different resources and economies, but independence works for all of them. with all our resources and talent, independence will work for scotland too. it is up to us to show the people of scotland how. the government of scotland is starting work to make sure the choice about our country's future is a fully informed one. no one is saying there won't be challenges to overcome. we will set these out openly and honestly. nothing will fall into our laps. but, like all countries, we face challenges whatever path we take. the question is this. which option, becoming independent or being governed by westminster, equips ms —— us best to meet these challenges? that westminster, equips ms -- us best to meet these challenges?— meet these challenges? that was nicola sturgeon, _
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meet these challenges? that was nicola sturgeon, the _ meet these challenges? that was nicola sturgeon, the first - meet these challenges? that was| nicola sturgeon, the first minister of scotland, speaking earlier. let's get more from our scotland correspondent james shaw. she was talking about co—operation, not confrontation, but she didn't sound very cooperative. i not confrontation, but she didn't sound very cooperative.- not confrontation, but she didn't sound very cooperative. i expect you wouldn't expect _ sound very cooperative. i expect you wouldn't expect that _ sound very cooperative. i expect you wouldn't expect that from _ sound very cooperative. i expect you wouldn't expect that from nicola - wouldn't expect that from nicola sturgeon. it is quite well—known her relationship — sturgeon. it is quite well—known her relationship with boris johnson, sturgeon. it is quite well—known her relationship with borisjohnson, i suppose — relationship with borisjohnson, i suppose you would have to say it is a frostv _ suppose you would have to say it is a frostv one — suppose you would have to say it is a frosty one. that was something she acknowledged during the speech. i think she _ acknowledged during the speech. i think she said, you know, it was clear— think she said, you know, it was clear that — think she said, you know, it was clear that borisjohnson think she said, you know, it was clear that boris johnson was think she said, you know, it was clear that borisjohnson was not her best friend. — clear that borisjohnson was not her best friend, not her favourite person. — best friend, not her favourite person, and the same might apply to him when _ person, and the same might apply to him when he was thinking about her. there _ him when he was thinking about her. there is— him when he was thinking about her. there is significance in that line of argument, suggesting there needs to be cooperation to achieve what the snp _ to be cooperation to achieve what the snp wants, and comparing it to what the _ the snp wants, and comparing it to what the different administrations around _ what the different administrations around the uk have achieved during the covid _ around the uk have achieved during the covid crisis. but there is a big problem — the covid crisis. but there is a big problem with that, and the problem essentially is that boris johnson has said — essentially is that boris johnson has said that he is not minded to
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allow— has said that he is not minded to allow the — has said that he is not minded to allow the scottish government to hold an _ allow the scottish government to hold an independence referendum any time soon. _ hold an independence referendum any time soon, perhaps within the next decade _ time soon, perhaps within the next decade or— time soon, perhaps within the next decade or longer. and that is an obstacle — decade or longer. and that is an obstacle which it is really hard for nicola _ obstacle which it is really hard for nicola sturgeon to get round. she has to— nicola sturgeon to get round. she has to carry on convincing her supporters, members of the snp, delegates at this conference, this virtual— delegates at this conference, this virtual conference, that hasjust virtual conference, that has just finished. — virtual conference, that hasjust finished, that there is a possibility of achieving the goal that they want to see as soon as possible — that they want to see as soon as possible. so it is very hard when you have — possible. so it is very hard when you have that point of view of the uk government, but she made the case that looking _ uk government, but she made the case that looking around europe you can see other— that looking around europe you can see other small nations that have been _ see other small nations that have been successful, and she suggested that was— been successful, and she suggested that was a _ been successful, and she suggested that was a possible future for scotland. so essentially what she was saying is that there could be an independence referendum by the end of 2023, _ independence referendum by the end of 2023, that's what she hopes, covid _ of 2023, that's what she hopes, covid permitting, as she put it, in the sense — covid permitting, as she put it, in the sense that the pandemic is over and not _ the sense that the pandemic is over and not really affecting people's
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lives, _ and not really affecting people's lives, but — and not really affecting people's lives, but she said that by the end of this— lives, but she said that by the end of this parliamentary term in 2026 that is— of this parliamentary term in 2026 that is when she would want to see a referendum — that is when she would want to see a referendum. no response from the uk government specifically to the speech— government specifically to the speech nicola sturgeon has made, but essentially— speech nicola sturgeon has made, but essentially we do know that it will be the _ essentially we do know that it will be the same response we have heard from the _ be the same response we have heard from the uk — be the same response we have heard from the uk government really for years— from the uk government really for years now. — from the uk government really for years now, that now is not the time for an— years now, that now is not the time for an independence referendum. there _ for an independence referendum. there was— for an independence referendum. there was one back in 2014 and the people _ there was one back in 2014 and the people in_ there was one back in 2014 and the people in scotland voted in favour of staying — people in scotland voted in favour of staying within the uk well therefore the uk government argues therefore the uk government argues there is— therefore the uk government argues there is no— therefore the uk government argues there is no need for a second independent referendum at this point, _ independent referendum at this point, and that is really where we are. point, and that is really where we are there — point, and that is really where we are there is— point, and that is really where we are. there is a stalemate at the moment — are. there is a stalemate at the moment. nicola sturgeon continues to make the _ moment. nicola sturgeon continues to make the argument and she continues to hear— make the argument and she continues to hear the _ make the argument and she continues to hear the same response from the uk government.— uk government. what about the resonse uk government. what about the response then — uk government. what about the response then from _ uk government. what about the response then from the - uk government. what about the response then from the talulah | response then from the talulah party? —— alba party. thus i am
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salmond has formed this party breaking away from the snp but in favour of independence —— yes, alex salmond has formed. he says he offers a kind of fundamental radical alternative to the snp which is not 'ust alternative to the snp which is not just about — alternative to the snp which is not just about governing scotland but is about _ just about governing scotland but is about achieving independence as swiftly— about achieving independence as swiftlv as — about achieving independence as swiftly as possible and that is very attractive — swiftly as possible and that is very attractive to snp members and supporters of independence who are, many— supporters of independence who are, many of— supporters of independence who are, many of them, no doubt, deeply frustrated — many of them, no doubt, deeply frustrated by the fact that what they want to achieve still doesn't appear— they want to achieve still doesn't appear to — they want to achieve still doesn't appear to be they want to achieve still doesn't appearto be in they want to achieve still doesn't appear to be in sight within the next _ appear to be in sight within the next few— appear to be in sight within the next few years.— appear to be in sight within the next few years. ok, james short, thank ou next few years. ok, james short, thank you very — next few years. ok, james short, thank you very much _ next few years. ok, james short, thank you very much for - next few years. ok, james short, thank you very much for that. - next few years. ok, james short, i thank you very much for that. thank you. ——james thank you very much for that. thank you. —— james short. —— james shaw. kate forbes is the scottish national party's finance secretary. first off, we heard something of a case being put forward by nicola sturgeon. do you think it was strong enough to convince borisjohnson to change his mind? enough to convince boris johnson to change his mind?—
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change his mind? what it will be -- what will be — change his mind? what it will be -- what will be strong _ change his mind? what it will be -- what will be strong enough - change his mind? what it will be -- what will be strong enough to - change his mind? what it will be -- what will be strong enough to get i what will be strong enough to get him to change his mind are the democratic results of many�*s elections. there were six conservative mps elected in scotland, if you may recall, and borisjohnson heralded that scotland, if you may recall, and boris johnson heralded that as scotland, if you may recall, and borisjohnson heralded that as a mandate for delivering a hard brexit. it made snp got 85% of first past the post seats. if that is not a mandate, i'm not sure what is, and that manifesto was clear, that when covid allowed, as nicola sturgeon said again today, there should be another referendum putting the question back to the people. nobody is arguing fora question back to the people. nobody is arguing for a referendum tomorrow. as you will have heard from nicola sturgeon's speech, we arguing for a referendum when covid allows, in other words when we are out of the immediate crisis. brute allows, in other words when we are out of the immediate crisis. we also heard nicola — out of the immediate crisis. we also heard nicola sturgeon _ out of the immediate crisis. we also heard nicola sturgeon say _ out of the immediate crisis. we also heard nicola sturgeon say she - out of the immediate crisis. we also heard nicola sturgeon say she was i heard nicola sturgeon say she was going to be open and honest about setting out the challenges that would be faced. could you give an idea then of what those challenges would be? ., idea then of what those challenges would be? . .,
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idea then of what those challenges would be? . _, ., ,, ., , would be? yeah. nicola sturgeon set out today the — would be? yeah. nicola sturgeon set out today the opportunities _ would be? yeah. nicola sturgeon set out today the opportunities as - would be? yeah. nicola sturgeon set out today the opportunities as we - out today the opportunities as we can see in other small, successful advanced economies, particularly across europe, but when it comes to the choices and the policy decisions, quite clearly independence can deliver and has the potential to deliver a stronger economy, better public services, but it does come down to the choices that you make. we set out back in 2018 the growth commission, some of the options to ensure there was a slow transition of power and showing some of the policies we would tailor to scotland's particular strengths. but these are choices that need to be made and i think every country around the world post—covid is having to refresh its economic perspectives. the uk government certainly is now with one of the highest deficits across europe. so we are arguing that with the right powers and levers we can make choices that are best suited to scotland, and that is why it is so important that the questions put to the people of scotland, because economic recovery in scotland will look different whether it is the uk
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government in charge imposing on scotland against our will or whether it is the people of scotland making those decisions directly. so obviously you have been planning this and working it out to lay this out to the scottish people. you spoke about the options and the policies being refreshed. could you give me one, an example, please? just to clarify what i said earlier, nicola sturgeon has said that we will do the work post—covid, taking into account the fact that things have changed. if you go back to 2014, one small example, we were told that if we voted yes to independence, we would be taken out of europe. the truth of the matter was that voting no ended up seeing ourselves being taken out of europe, so some things have changed and the point nicola sturgeon is making is that building on the experiences of the pandemic, reflecting on where we are as a country right now, we will update that economic perspective. and ensure the people of scotland have all the answers may need before making a decision. but that comes
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back down to the basics, which is democracy. we are seeing a consistent support for independence in scotland. borisjohnson appears to be running scared because he says no, you will not get that say without taking the time to put forward the case for leaving. if he does say no. _ forward the case for leaving. if he does say no, what _ forward the case for leaving. if he does say no, what next? - forward the case for leaving. if he does say no, what next? if- forward the case for leaving. if he does say no, what next? if he says no again. he does say no, what next? if he says no aaain. ,., , does say no, what next? if he says no aain. , ~ , no again. he sounds like he is continuing _ no again. he sounds like he is continuing to _ no again. he sounds like he is continuing to say _ no again. he sounds like he is continuing to say no, - no again. he sounds like he is continuing to say no, which i no again. he sounds like he is continuing to say no, which is| no again. he sounds like he is. continuing to say no, which is the easy option when you don't have a case for the union, but bear in mind there is some time. we have a number of months if we deliver what we set out today, which is a referendum in the first half of the parliament. we have some time. and i hope that borisjohnson, under pressure from those who support the union, will reflect on the fact that you cannot keep saying no to democracy. this is not about getting him to change his mind on independence. we know what his view is on independence, we know what conservatives' view is on independence, you know what my view
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is on independence as well. i’m independence, you know what my view is on independence as well.— is on independence as well. i'm so sor , is on independence as well. i'm so sorry. but — is on independence as well. i'm so sorry. butjust _ is on independence as well. i'm so sorry. butjust very _ is on independence as well. i'm so sorry, butjust very quickly, - is on independence as well. i'm so sorry, butjust very quickly, we i is on independence as well. i'm so | sorry, butjust very quickly, we are running out of time. we understand your view, we understand this idea of the moxie, but at the end of the day can scotland afford independence? financially. absolutely, absolutely. of that there is no doubt! sometimes i wonder whether scotland can afford to continue being part of the union as it stands. ok! to continue being part of the union as it stands— as it stands. ok! kate forbes, the scottish national— as it stands. ok! kate forbes, the scottish national party's - as it stands. ok! kate forbes, the scottish national party's finance i scottish national party's finance secretary, thank you for your time. thank you. just to let you know we will be speaking to a member of the scottish conservatives later, possibly hopefully in the next hour the kishna on bbc news so hopefully you stay with us for that. —— in the next hour here on bbc news. protesters demanding government action on home insulation have partially blocked several junctions on the m25. tens of thousands of motorists trying to use the uk's busiest motorway faced long delays while activists sat on the road holding banners.
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police said more than 30 people had been arrested for highways obstruction. protest group insulate britain said action would go on until a "meaningful commitment" was made. our chief environment correspondentjustin rowlatt has more. it started at eight o'clock this morning.. they blocked up to six slip roads on the m25 causing huge tailbacks. they say they want to draw attention to the issue of insulating our homes, slightly bizarre, blocking roads to insulate homes. they say this is important for reducing carbon emissions and there is certainly some truth in that. they say they want a significant commitment from the government to insulate the homes of the poorest people in britain first. i spoke to the aa about what they are doing and they say this is an incredibly dangerous protest for the protesters but also for other road users, they say this will backfire. they say this creates delays, increases emissions and is not the way to go about it. i should say insulate britain say how else do we raise these important issues without causing some kind of disruption and
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attracting attention? a difficult dilemma. , , attracting attention? a difficult dilemma, , , ., ., dilemma. just in brow and confirmation _ dilemma. just in brow and confirmation we _ dilemma. just in brow and confirmation we are i dilemma. just in brow and confirmation we are going| dilemma. just in brow and i confirmation we are going to be having full details of that decision to allow vaccines to be rolled out to allow vaccines to be rolled out to 12 to 15—year—olds at —— that was just involved —— jusrtin rowlatt. to 12 to 15—year—olds at —— that was just involved ——jusrtin rowlatt. so that will be a press conference from downing street so stay with us on bbc news for that, for pm. —— it will be out for pm —— it will be at 4pm. a court in new york is due to hold a pre—trial hearing this afternoon, in the civil case filed by a woman who claims the duke of york sexually assaulted her when she was 17. our royal correspondent jonny dymond is here. what are we expecting? we don't really know but this is important because it will be the first time thejudge important because it will be the first time the judge for the lawyers and the women have made this
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allegation, the first time they have actually met, and what we expect is actually met, and what we expect is a consideration of whether or not and how this case might go forward. prince andrew has always denied the allegation of sexual assault and says he can't remember meeting the woman and his team have pretty much dismissed this case. this is a civil case, not a criminal case, a claim for compensation and damages, and his team have nearly always said no comment, nothing to say about this case. now they are faced with the question of whether or not the court will accept that the allegations have been formally put to prince andrew. whether or not papers were served on him. it might sound like a fairly tedious technicality, but it is really important. if thejudge said yes, ok, i acknowledge they must have been served on prince andrew, something his lawyers are casting doubt on, then we will get some idea or we may get some idea as to how and whether this case will actually proceed. if the case does proceed, prince andrew has a decision to make. so far he has pretty much knocked it to one side, or his team have. "no comment", as
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we understand that his lawyers not turning up to the pre—trial conference today. but if the judge says this case can go ahead, prince andrew needs to decide, is he then going to make any representation to the court? is he going to make any case to the court? we'll have lawyers to the court? or does he risk the court, if he doesn't turn up risk the court, if he doesn't turn up in any shape orform or his lawyers doubt, does he risk the court simply finding him guilty through his absence? so far it has been about the exchange of paperwork. this is the first time the judge in at least some of the lawyers get together and it is an important procedural moment. it is an important procedural moment-— sport now, and for a full round—up from the bbc sport centre, here's jane dougall. we are going to start with the tennis. emma raducanu has said her parents played a huge part in her stunning
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us open victory over leyla fernandez on saturday night. the 18—year—old beat the canadian in straight sets to become the first qualifier and first british woman for 44 years, to win a grand slam singles title. raducanu's mother and father were unable to be in new york but speaking to abc's good morning america, she paid tribute to them, calling them �*her biggest critics' but that the way they raised her has shaped who she is — and helped her handle the pressure during the final in front of a full arthur ashe stadium. daniil medvedev says he's incredibly happy, after winning his first grand slam title. the russian number two seed beat novak djokovic in straight sets at the us open, to end the world number one's hopes of taking the calendar slam. djokovic had won this year's three other major tournaments, but looked completely lost at times, particularly when he was on the way to losing the second set. the end wasn't long in coming, and medvedev completed an emphatic victory to win his first grand slam.
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he was going for huge history, and knowing that i managed to stop him definitely makes it sweeter. and brings me confidence for what is to come. i wasjust below par, you know, with my game. my legs were not there. i was trying. i did my best. but, yeah, i made a lot of unforced errors. i didn't have no serve. the draw has taken place for the group stages of the women's champions league. last year's finalists chelsea have a tough group withjuventus, wolfsburg and servette. but so do arsenal — they'll play the holders barcelona, and hoffenheim, plus danish side hb koge. and hoffenheim, plus danish side hb koge. and the stage is set for the ryder cup later this month, with europe captain
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padraig harrington making his wild card picks. but england's lee westwood didn't need one, after qualifying automatically. he just did enough at the pga championship at wentworth to get into the places to compete for europe for the 11th time against the united states. the tournament was won by america's billy horschel. shane lowry didn't play himself into the team automatically, but was last night named as a wild card, as were ian poulter and sergio garcia. however, justin rose misses out. if either he or sergio weren't in the form that they were in, it would have been jr the form that they were in, it would have beenjr in. that'sjust the the form that they were in, it would have beenjr in. that's just the way it is. but both sergio and ian are playing very well, and consistent, and solid, and dependable, and they've been doing it for a while. jr has come good right at the end, you know, but as i said, the other two lads have been there longer.
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full details of both teams are on the bbc sport website. and australia cricket captain tim paine has said he will be fit for the ashes, despite needing surgery to treat a pinched nerve in his neck. the test captain has been suffering pain in his neck and left arm, caused by a bulging disc. he's scheduled to undergo surgery soon, and expects to be back in full training by next month, with the first ashes test against england to begin in brisbane on the 8th of december. that's all the sport for now. jane, thank you very much. jane dougall, there. let's stay with sport, and emma raducanu says she's ready for anything, and can cope with her sudden rise to stardom, after winning the us open. tennis stars past and present have continued to praise the 18—year—old's astonishing performance. she beat leylah fernandez on saturday to become the first qualifier, and first british woman for 44 years, to win a grand slam singles title. she is now predicted to become one of the biggest earners in tennis. our sports correspondent laura scott's report contains flash photography.
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by now, emma raducanu might have begun to believe this is real. she did it, and her name is on the wall to prove it. she has had a few days to reflect on her historic achievement, as has the tennis world, but, still, there is a sense of shock. i am just so thrilled that somebody as good as emma has come along and taken the world by absolute storm and just been brilliant. as far as the attention and the sponsorships and that, she has got to be protected, because, yes, you say there is quite a stressful commitment, so she's got to pick and choose and, boy, she can pick and choose the best of them. raducanu ended britain's 44—year wait for a female grand slam singles champion, a moment watched by more than nine million people back home.
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today, she becomes the world number 23, up from 150 at the start of the tournament. all hail the queen of queens! is the us open comes to a close, britain wasn'tjust is the us open comes to a close, britain wasn't just celebrating is the us open comes to a close, britain wasn'tjust celebrating one win. there were four titles, two forjoe salisbury and yet more wheelchair doubles glory for alfie hewett and gordon reid but the young woman in the middle will inevitably garner the most attention. speaks mandarin. she is already generating huge global appeal with this off—the—cuff message to herfans in china. what is the messagej to younger athletes? and america's biggest tv shows queueing up to talk to the teenage star. raducanu has shot to fame faster than anyone could have imagined or prepared herfor. protecting her now will be key to preserving herfuture. the leader of the tuc says the uk
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must be better prepared for future economic shocks like the covid pandemic, saying it won't be a one—off. frances o'grady has challenged the prime minister to deliver on his promises to level up britain. our business correspondent ben thompson is here. let's discuss this further. so what more did she say? she let's discuss this further. so what more did she say?— more did she say? she has been addressing _ more did she say? she has been addressing the _ more did she say? she has been addressing the tuc _ more did she say? she has been addressing the tuc congress i more did she say? she has been| addressing the tuc congress and more did she say? she has been i addressing the tuc congress and it is a pretty stark assessment, it has to be said, of the way we work in the state of industry, and she highlights some of the problems that have been made worse through covid, but also those that were there already that may be have got a little worse too. she says the pandemic must be a catalyst for change. she says we must be prepared for crises in future. she says covid is not going to be a one—off. she also talks about things like climate change, the race to zero emissions, that if we don't take those targets seriously they will get worse and there will be a bigger problem. she also talks about new technology, wonderful all these new machines and
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computers that can do jobs. they are a risk tojobs computers that can do jobs. they are a risk to jobs and she says we mustn't squander those benefits and that workers must feel the benefit, they be in shorter hours or higher pay, notjust greater profits for the companies investing in technology. also some warning for the government as far as tax is concerned, take a listen. now ministers tell us they're going to level up britain. but levelling up means nothing if they freeze workers' pay, slash universal credit, and the number of kids in poverty soars. so i have a challenge for the prime minister — if levelling up means anything, it must mean levelling up at work, and levelling up living standards. she was alluding to those tax rises that have been in the headlines over the last few days.— the last few days. yes, so controversial, _ the last few days. yes, so controversial, that - the last few days. yes, so controversial, that rise i the last few days. yes, so controversial, that rise in| the last few days. yes, so - controversial, that rise in national insurance contributions, and also a
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warning not to raise taxes on business. she says help businesses deliver the growth and the jobs that we need, do not burden them with extra taxes. in particular as far as the national insurance rise is concerned, she says that is another hit to young people and those on lower wages. hit to young people and those on lowerwages. she hit to young people and those on lower wages. she talks about those recent hgv driver shortages we have been hearing so much about, she says thatis been hearing so much about, she says that is a direct consequence of poor pay and poor working conditions for drivers, that is meaning they are not entering the industry, causing so many supply problems. so instead they are proposing the solution will be a capital gains tax, a tax on wealth, ratherthan be a capital gains tax, a tax on wealth, rather than a tax on lower paid people. she said that could be enough to pay for social care that we have heard the prime minister tell us is so desperately needed. she said the benefit of not taxing lower paid workers too is that people tend to spend that money on the local high street and the local economy, so we all see a direct benefit, because she suggests that those on the highest incomes that are not being taxed on their wealth, if they hoard that money elsewhere we don't see our benefit in our day
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to day economy. we don't see our benefit in our day to day economy-— from clapping on the doorstep, to putting posters in windows — over the course of the pandemic, many people showed a sense of pride in the nhs. but, a new survey also indicates a sense of disappointment and frustration in the service — with one in five people saying they've been forced to go private. our home editor mark easton has more. covid has inspired a wave of love for the national health service. applause. at the height of the pandemic, tens of millions of us stood on our doorsteps to show our appreciation. a new poll suggests the nhs makes more than three quarters of people proud to be british. i was suicidal. i came out of that appointment and said to my partner, i want to die. i've had enough of this. dee, who lives in south wales, says she loves the nhs but in the end she spent her life savings on private care for her endometriosis, because the national health service
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left her feeling dismissed, disrespected and desperate. i did not want to die, ijust wanted it to be better, i wanted it to stop. you just feel like nobody believes you and nobody is listening to you. the idea of the nhs makes us proud, but research by engage britain suggests our experience of it often disappoints us. in a poll, 28% of people said they had had to fight to get the treatment they needed. over a quarter of people said they felt dismissed, or not taken seriously, a figure that rises to 45% among young women. we really love the nhs. this is an institution that truly is valued across this country. but that is sitting at the same time with lots of us having really quite traumatic experiences. the question raised by the research is whether public affection for the model means inadequate attention is given to what the s stands for in nhs.
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it's just the time it takes to get everything you need, _ and being on hold for hoursjust- to get a simple question answered, or waiting for five or six. months just to get a chat with a physiotherapist, - and it'sjust really frustrating. floss, who comes from leicestershire, was born with cerebral palsy, and has been getting treatment from the nhs since she was a child. but her feelings about the service changed when she reached adulthood. when i got to the age of 18, - they said, "oh, you're an adult now, "so unless you need anything i constantly, we're going to write "you off our books". an extraordinary one in four people in today's poll say the wait for nhs treatment for themselves or a loved one has seriously damaged their mental health. and one in five people say they've been forced to go private, because they couldn't get the nhs
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treatment they needed. britain is proud to have its nhs. it recognises the pressure staff are under, and applauds their sacrifice. but the evidence suggests too many patients and their families feel they are lost in an institution that often doesn't have the time to listen. mark easton, bbc news. a bbc panorama investigation has uncovered evidence, suggesting that one of britain's biggest companies paid a bribe to the former zimbabwean dictator, robert mugabe. british american tobacco is also accused of paying bribes and using illegal surveillance methods to damage its rivals in south africa. bat says it is committed to the highest standards of corporate conduct and transparency wherever it operates. richard bilton reports: these are the forests of mahikeng, in rural south africa.
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peter snyders lives here now, but he used to have a different life. breaking the law to help british american tobacco sabotage its competitors. they said that we must tap their telephones, do physical surveillance on them, on their trucks — where the consignments are going to, and follow them all over. did bat know you were doing that? they were giving us money to do that. bat is one of the uk's ten biggest companies. but working with the bureau of investigativejournalism and the university of bath, we found evidence it was breaking the law to undermine rivals. documents and insiders revealed an extraordinary incident in zimbabwe. three members of a firm working on behalf of bat were arrested, suspected of spying.
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the document shows zimbabwean officials wanted a payment of between 300,000 and 500,000 us dollars to mr mugabe's party to get the case dropped. effectively, a bribe to a dictator. the files don't show the bribe being paid, but the men were released. this man was sent in to negotiate the deal for bat. they would have to pay to get what they want, including these three men out of prison? that's exactly the deal that was brokered. is there a chance that, because that meeting happened, friendships were formed and they got what they wanted without paying any money? absolutely not. that's fa ntasyland. so you get what you want by paying the money? and only by paying the money. when asked by the bbc, bat didn't deny paying a bribe to a dictator. it said it emphatically rejects the mischaracterisation of its conduct, and that it was
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helping law enforcement agencies combat the trade in illicit cigarettes. it said it fully cooperated with a serious fraud office investigation, which included allegations relating to south africa and resulted in no action. what we have found is a company that stopped at nothing to sell cigarettes. richard bilton, bbc news. and you can see that edition of panorama on bbc1 tonight, at 7:30pm and then later on iplayer. fierce wildfires continue to burn out of control in southern spain. thousands of people have been forced to leave their homes, as the authorities try to fight the flames. it's believed around 6,000 hectares of land have been affected — in a region popular with holiday—makers. tim allman has more. with little warning, with little
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time to prepare, people flee the towns and villages of andalusia. this gymnasium, now a makeshift shelter. local residents told to move, as the flames got ever closer. translation: it was very quick. they rushed us out. i came with my clothes on and left everything there. even the animals. i thought it was never going to happen but there was such a big cloud over the village, it was scary. translation: this is - inhuman, nothing like this has ever been seen. the flames of the fire, as they ran through the mountains, it was amazing. for days now, the fires have raged. thick clouds of smoke visible amidst the hills and mountains near malaga. this blaze, said to have an unusual power and strength, is advancing in several directions. the country's military has been asked to help out, as strong winds and high temperature fanned the flames. a nightmare for those who had to leave their homes, but everyone is chipping in to help
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as best they can. translation: there's much shock, because of the tragedy that's - happening around us, _ but there's been an immense wave of solidarity from all the towns i in the region to help these people who have left their homes so quickly. | there's speculation these fires may have been started deliberately. the flames burn on. the battle to contain them continues. tim allman, bbc news. the british stars at this year's paralympic games reached the podium more than 120 times, and finished second on the medal table behind china. last night, around 200 athletes across 19 sports were welcomed home with a special concert, to celebrate their achievements. our reporter matt graveling was there. higher, come on! i am so excited today. i think it's going to be absolutely phenomenal. i haven't actually seen my parents yet, so they're coming down to go to the arena with me. and i can't wait to see them.
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they haven't seen the medals yet. and it's just so exciting to be able to let our hair down and to celebrate as a team. to actually have the opportunity to come out here and celebrate, not only with our friends and family but with everybody else supporting us, it's actually awesome. yeah, it's a really good opportunity. move away from sort of like being in a bubble, being in a hotel room, just go and see people a little bit and just be almost normal again. paralympics gb did phenomenally well in tokyo, bagging 124 medals. so, they need a party. 7,000 lucky national lottery players, as well as the athletes' friends and family, are now converging right here at wembley arena. my sleep pattern was absolutely all over the place, _ but i wouldn't have missed it. and to be here today is an absolute privilege to thank the athletes. i just to see them work through these past 18 months, for it to work so well and come home, i think it'sjust absolutely fabulous. there we go. we watched everything that they done and theyjust inspire us. _ just amazing.
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so, we thought we'd come down and support them. i but hang on a minute, these are elite athletes. surely they are on a strict diet? i think the second i crossed the line for my last race, i've definitely not been watching what i eat. i probably do have to now though, because the belly is starting to just grow outwards. just treat yourself. i've literally got two kilos of pick n mix at home that are waiting for me! so, yeah, the diet is totally gone out of the window! cheering. # so you want to be a boxer, want to be the champ...#. i this homecoming event marked a day of returns, but notjust for the athletes. well, this is the first time we've performed as a band in, i don't even know, almost two years. it's crazy. but it's such an amazing honour and privilege to be invited. we were quite shocked. and, yeah, we arejust so excited to do it. today's arena was jumping, but in tokyo it was a different story. with fans forced to watch at home, social media videos sent the joy to japan. cheering.
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it'sjust so nice to. see all the support, because when i was there i didn't realise the amount of— support i was getting. so, after the race i watched all of this and then, - seeing andy get emotional, - it kind of gave me a sense of pride to know they are all helping me and cheering me on as well. i it's just, yeah, lovely to watch. while maisie picked up herfirst two golds, another athlete made history, claiming her 17th. the games were completely different to any games i'd been to, not least because i was there without any family and friends, and my parents are almost the founder members of the paralympics gb supporters' club. so, it was a very different games, but i think it's coming home, and celebrating these medals, that have meant those memories will always be held high in my list of achievements. # welcome to the house of fun...#. while dame sarah will now turn her attention to paris, for other paralympic stars today's event will also be a farewell party.
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i knew, going into it, _ it was going to be my last games. to have a paralympics homecoming is something so special. _ we also bring our friends, i our families, our loved ones, to come for a party, i because they missed out at the games. they couldn't go to tokyo. they couldn't be i there to cheer us on. and to have a thing today where everyone comes, i it's a whole celebration, it's so exciting. - matt graveling, bbc news. tomato growers in northern spain, are battling it out to win an award for the ugliest tomato. it's become a tradition in the village of tudela, as courtney bembridge explains. there is no doubt these are really ugly tomatoes. but are they the ugliest? the answer to that is serious business in this village of tudela. competitors young and old line up at the fruits of their competitors young and old line upwith the fruits of their labour and various theories about what makes the perfect
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or imperfect ugly tomato. translation: they come out ugly because we have some bees that i pollinate the plants. they take the pollen from one place together, but in this case, something went wrong. a jury of their peers decides the winner, and in the end, tomato number 115, up on the top left, was crowned with the honour of ugliest. the winners say there's nothing to it but luck. translation: we didn't grow ugly ones to come to the contest. an ugly lot came out and that was it. this variety is known for its juicy and tender flesh, and it's said that they taste a lot better than they look. a true tale of beauty coming from within. courtney bembridge, bbc news. participants at the brighton marathon yesterday got a bit more than they signed up for, when the course ended up being slightly longer than than the usual 26.2 miles.
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organisers apologised, after they realised the route was a third of a mile longer than it was supposed to be. around 12,000 runners took part, but the mistake was only spotted after they'd set off. now it's time for a look at the weather, with sarah keith lucas. good afternoon. this time last week, we had temperatures as high as 30 degrees in one or two spots, but things this week are feeling much more typical for the time of year, a bit more of an autumnal and unsettled feel to the weather. through the rest of the day, most places fairly cloudy, some rain pushing into the west, courtesy of a couple of weather fronts that you can see on the map here. we have still got high pressure sitting out towards the east and that is keeping things largely dry and settled for parts of southern and eastern england, eastern scotland, too. so, some late sunshine through the afternoon and into the evening hours here. but we have got that thick cloud moving on from the west and outbreaks of rain. now, into this evening, they become particularly heavy for the south—west of england, wales, northern england, too. so quite a lot of wet weather
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moving its way in from the south, as we head through into the early hours of tuesday morning. temperatures for most of us remaining pretty mild, quite humid still overnight. perhaps we willjust see single figures across the north of scotland. but, through the day tomorrow, then, we are watching this area of rain, that becomes quite heavy and persistent, moving up to central southern england and the midlands, up towards the likes of lincolnshire and east yorkshire as well. could be 50 millimetres or more of rain falling in quite a short space of time, leading to potential localised flooding issues. things do look drier for scotland, northern ireland, later for wales and the south—west, but still a few showers moving on here. and, then, overnight tuesday into wednesday morning, after all that rain, moist surfaces, we could see quite a foggy start to the day on wednesday, so light winds, some fog lingering through the morning, should lift and clear. early rain towards parts of eastern england gradually shifting away, so i think, wednesday, a drier day across england and, a drier day across england and wales, certainly compared to tuesday. some sunny spells, too, for scotland and northern ireland
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and temperatures typically around 16 to 21 degrees on wednesday, not far off what we would expect for the time of year. thursday again could start with some mist, some fog and some low cloud, which should tend to break up through the day with sunny spells still developing. not a bad day, most places dry for much of the day, although there will be some rain just waiting in the wings moving in from the west, but temperatures in the warmest spots 22, possibly 23 degrees, a little bit cooler up towards the north—west. now, heading towards the end of the working week and you will see this weather front moving its way in from the west. that could bring some fairly heavy spells of rain as we move through friday. it looks like it mainly clears away towards the east, so, on saturday, probably a little bit drier and brighter. not quite as warm, though, as it has been lately. bye for now.
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this is bbc news. fight back i am the chris barack —— i am lukwesa burak. the headlines: covid vaccines for 12—15—year—olds are approved by the four uk chief medical officers. they say it would mean fewer children will have their education disrupted. one dose of the pfizer jab will be offered — we're expecting to hear from the chief medical officers in an hour's time. nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland, in england and northern ireland may have broken the rules on travel quarantine, at a time when the delta variant was spreading. the nhs starts trials of a revolutionary new blood test that detects more than 50 types of cancer before the patient has any symptoms. the bbc obtains new evidence
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that the taliban are killing civilians in afghanistan. nicola sturgeon says the success of other small european countries shows that independence could work for scotland as well. and what's next for emma? british tennis legends offer their advice to the teen queen emma raducanu. good afternoon and welcome to bbc news. the four chief medical officers for the uk have recommended that all children aged 12 to 15 years old should be offered one dose of the pfizer covid vaccine. they said it would help reduce disruption to education this year. the decision comes after
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scientific advisers serving on thejoint committee for vaccination and immunisation said the vaccine only offered a "marginal" health benefit for that age group and could not be recommended on health grounds alone. well, the department of health and social care has confirmed it has received the advice from the chief medical officers and will be setting out the government's decision shortly. let's discuss this further. with me now is our health correspondent anna collinson. we are starting to get a little more information, anna. can you update us on what we know and what recommendations have been approved? sure. this was a letter from the uk's four chief medical officers, and they have been explaining to ministers how they reached this decision. it obviously goes into quite a bit of detail. it comes ten days after the uk's vaccine advisory bodyissued days after the uk's vaccine advisory body issued advice that said "while the health benefits of vaccinating all children between 12 and 15,"
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there were some benefits, "the benefits were marginal and there wasn't enough of a justification to do that. " this caused frustration particularly as the uk's vaccine roll—out has now been overtaken by many other countries, mainly because they are vaccinating universally all 12-15 they are vaccinating universally all 12—15 —year—olds. the chief medical officers were told to take other factors into account, notjust health. they have spoken to a range of experts from around the uk, directors of public health, royal colleges, gps, and their main concern that came back to them, the main focus, education. any parent watching and any child who has been in school knows how disruptive the pandemic has been and they said it has had a massive impact on welfare of children, physically, mentally, and that it is particularly affecting people from deprived areas where covid was a real problem. they say that while they can't work out
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the extent the power of the vaccine will have, just how effective it will have, just how effective it will be, they say on balance the benefits provide sufficient extra advantage to warrant extending vaccinating. this extends the programme to 3 million rate is currently up until now it was only 12 to 15—year—old s with underlying health conditions eligible as well as well as those who lived with someone with increased risk of covid. ., ., ., ., covid. from the portfolio of vaccines — covid. from the portfolio of vaccines that _ covid. from the portfolio of vaccines that the _ covid. from the portfolio of vaccines that the uk - covid. from the portfolio of vaccines that the uk has, i covid. from the portfolio of i vaccines that the uk has, they are recommending pfizer. y pfizer, do we know? ., a, ., know? pfizer and moderne have both been approved _ know? pfizer and moderne have both been approved at _ know? pfizer and moderne have both been approved at the _ know? pfizer and moderne have both been approved at the moment i know? pfizer and moderne have both been approved at the moment but i been approved at the moment but right now they are saying they want to see more evidence gathered and they want to hear back from the jcvi on that —— moderna. we are not at this moment seeing second doses administered to this age group until the spring time. in administered to this age group until
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the spring time-— the spring time. in terms of reaction _ the spring time. in terms of reaction from _ the spring time. in terms of reaction from schools? i the spring time. in terms of reaction from schools? wel the spring time. in terms of- reaction from schools? we already heard from — reaction from schools? we already heard from the _ reaction from schools? we already heard from the association - reaction from schools? we already heard from the association of i reaction from schools? we already i heard from the association of school and college leaders earlier, really hoping this was the the decision would go. their concern with the jcvi ruling ten days ago what they felt it was quite narrow. while they appreciate the concerns about the health, and the concern is this very rare side effect that has been detected particularly amongst young boys involving heart inflammation, but to emphasise, it is very rare, however severe covid amongst these young people is also very rare, so it is this balancing act. they say while health considerations need to be taken into account, it needs to be taken into account, it needs to be broadened out. thejcvi were too narrow in their approach and the devastating impact of disruption on education was a key factor and needed to be considered. ok. education was a key factor and needed to be considered. ok, anna collinson, needed to be considered. ok, anna collinson. we _ needed to be considered. ok, anna collinson, we will _ needed to be considered. ok, anna collinson, we will leave _ needed to be considered. ok, anna collinson, we will leave it _ needed to be considered. ok, anna collinson, we will leave it there i collinson, we will leave it there for now. thank you very much indeed. to remind you, we will hear more detail on that decision at four o'clock right here on bbc news, and i am sure anna will bejoining us to
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take us through what is said. let's talk to our political correspondent nick eardley. notjust not just about jabs. plenty to notjust aboutjabs. plenty to come from the government? notjust about jabs. plenty to come from the government?— notjust about jabs. plenty to come from the government? yeah, a busy week for the — from the government? yeah, a busy week for the government _ from the government? yeah, a busy week for the government when i from the government? yeah, a busy week for the government when it i week for the government when it comes— week for the government when it comes to — week for the government when it comes to what will happen over the next few— comes to what will happen over the next few months, autumn and winter. taking _ next few months, autumn and winter. taking 12 _ next few months, autumn and winter. taking 12 to— next few months, autumn and winter. taking 12 to 15—year—olds first, ministers _ taking 12 to 15—year—olds first, ministers still have to take the decision— ministers still have to take the decision whether to accept the advice — decision whether to accept the advice of— decision whether to accept the advice of the four chief medical officers. — advice of the four chief medical officers, the four governments across — officers, the four governments across the uk, because this issue is devolved _ across the uk, because this issue is devolved. they are all looking at it 'ust devolved. they are all looking at it just now _ devolved. they are all looking at it just now and i think it is highly likely— just now and i think it is highly likely they will accept this advice, although— likely they will accept this advice, although there is still a bit of time — although there is still a bit of time to— although there is still a bit of time to look over it. there is some talk about— time to look over it. there is some talk about potentially a decision on that tomorrow, but that is not confirmed. so there is that side of things _ confirmed. so there is that side of things. next, there is the question of whether— things. next, there is the question of whether we all get potentially third dose of a vaccine over the course — third dose of a vaccine over the course of— third dose of a vaccine over the course of the winter, so called this to a jab _ course of the winter, so called this to a jab we — course of the winter, so called this to a jab. we are expecting the jcvi,
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the body— to a jab. we are expecting the jcvi, the body looking at the sort of thing. — the body looking at the sort of thing. to— the body looking at the sort of thing, to come up with that advice in the _ thing, to come up with that advice in the next — thing, to come up with that advice in the next few days as well. potentially that would be ahead of the prime minister's big press conference tomorrow afternoon, where we are _ conference tomorrow afternoon, where we are expecting him to lay out his sort of— we are expecting him to lay out his sort of vision about how the country. _ sort of vision about how the country, how england, anyway, we'll cope with _ country, how england, anyway, we'll cope with covid over the autumn and winter— cope with covid over the autumn and winter months. this really matters because _ winter months. this really matters because we — winter months. this really matters because we know the next few weeks and months are the typical pitch point _ and months are the typical pitch point for— and months are the typical pitch point for the nhs, the time the nhs is always— point for the nhs, the time the nhs is always under the most pressure. this will— is always under the most pressure. this will be — is always under the most pressure. this will be the first winter where potentially there is covid but no restrictions. so there are big questions about what the government is prepared _ questions about what the government is prepared to keep in reserve if cases— is prepared to keep in reserve if cases spiral out of control. we know the prime _ cases spiral out of control. we know the prime minister doesn't want more lockdowns, _ the prime minister doesn't want more lockdowns, we know the government is not going _ lockdowns, we know the government is not going to _ lockdowns, we know the government is not going to introduce vaccine passports for now, but there will be bil passports for now, but there will be big questions for the prime minister about— big questions for the prime minister about what exactly he is keeping on the back— about what exactly he is keeping on the back door if things take a turn for the _ the back door if things take a turn for the worst. like michael k, nick,
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thank— for the worst. like michael k, nick, thank you _ for the worst. like michael k, nick, thank you very much. -- — thank you very much. nearly a third of people arriving in england and northern ireland as the coronavirus delta variant took hold may have broken quarantine rules. more than 300,000 cases were passed to investigators between march and may, according to figures seen by the bbc. our political correspondent alex forsyth has the background. you need to cast your mind back to spring of this year, when we had just been through that winter wave of covid, and the vaccine programme was being rolled out across the united kingdom. the government introduced travel rules to try to limit the spread of new variants coming into the country. it meant you could only travel if it was essential, and if you went to a higher—risk red country, when you came back, you had to quarantine in a hotel. most other passengers had to quarantine at home for ten days. they were subject to a series of phone calls and text messages to check they were doing so, but we have obtained figures, using the freedom of information act, which show that, in more than 300,000 cases,
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there were doubts that people were following those rules. it might have been that when they were called they didn't answer the phone, or they hung up, or they refused to co—operate, or there was another signal that raised suspicion. they were then referred on for further checks, which might have been a visit from a police officer at home, or a private firm, which was employed by the home office to carry out these checks during that process. the home office has told us that it did visit 99% of the cases that were referred to it, and what it has not said is how many people were found to be sticking to the rules, allowing that variant to take hold more quickly. this was the period in which they delta variant in india came into the uk and the government says will introduce these rules to ensure a robust system, the labour party say they were gaps and holes in that system which might have allowed that variant to take load more quickly.
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they say it is further evidence of what they call a failed border policy. that was alex forsyth. the nhs is beginning trials today of a revolutionary blood test that could detect more than 50 types of cancer before symptoms even appear. it works by detecting chemical changes in fragments of genetic code. 140,000 volunteers aged between 50 and 77 are being recruited in england to see how well the test works over the next few years. our health correspondent dominic hughes reports the sooner a cancer can be detected and treated, the greater the chances are the patient will make a good recovery. but some cancers are hard to spot in the early stages, including those in the head and neck, bowel, lung, pancreas and throat. so now a huge clinical trial is starting in england to see whether a new blood test can identify more than 50 types of cancer before symptoms become obvious. from today, we will be inviting people to come for blood tests in convenient locations like retail parks, and i would just say to anyone who receives a letter or receives an invitation,
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please do take it up and become part of this world first trial. this cancer blood test is the largest clinical trial of its kind. 140,000 volunteers are being asked to take part. they will be drawn from people aged 50 to 77, from a variety of backgrounds and ethnicities. if early trial results are promising, a further million people will be enrolled in 2024. if early trial results are promising, a further million people will be enrolled in 2024. there is a lot of potential here, that it could detect not only a range of different cancers but potentially some of them at an earlier stage. but it's crucial that we actually do now test the research and test on a much bigger scale, in this research trial, and work out whether it can detect cancer earlier, whether it can reduce the stage and, crucially, that it can do that without causing undue
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harms to people. the first volunteers have been giving blood samples this morning at a retail park in runcorn, in cheshire. it seems a good opportunity to become involved with something. sadly, most of us are touched by cancer at some time in our lives and, actually, early detection is one thing that's going to help in our armoury against that. scientists have been trying to develop a cancer detecting blood test for years. but previous efforts produced too many false results. researchers say if the promise of this simple test is fulfilled, it could mark the beginning of a revolution in cancer treatment. dominic hughes, bbc news. the bbc has obtained and verified footage showing civilians being killed by the taliban in afghanistan. the bbc has confirmed that more than 20 people have been killed in panjshir province where the taliban have been fighting opposition forces. a taliban spokesperson has denied such killings are taking place. you may find some of the details in our correspondent yalda hakim's report distressing.
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this bazaar is famous across panjshir valley, and always bustling. now, it's empty and a ghost town. since the taliban entered the valley, people have taken flight. it used to be the home of resistance, but this now appears futile. people have locked their doors and fled and that's not surprising, when people are being shot dead on the side of the street. the bbc has verified this video, which you may find distressing. here, a man in military clothes is dragged away. it is unclear whether he was in the army. this is common dress in the valley. voices are raised. seconds later, he is shot several times and killed. we are not showing you those images. a bystander insists the man they have just killed was not in the military. the bbc has confirmed that more than 20 people have been killed
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since the taliban entered panjshir province. one of them was this shopkeeper and father of two called abdul sami. his family want his name and story to be known. a taliban spokesperson denies civilians are being targeted. when the taliban entered the valley, they promised peace and stability. translation: they should come out, do their daily activities. _ if they are shopkeepers, they can go to their shops. if they are farmers, they can go to their farms. we are here to protect them, their lives and their families. but these pictures show that people are not waiting to see if the taliban keep their promises. with telecommunications cut in the valley, it is hard to get information out.
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but the international community has warned that taliban they are watching and they will be held accountable for their actions. yalda hakim, bbc news. now, north korea is claiming to have successfully test—fired two new long—range cruise missiles capable of hitting japan. these pictures were released by the north korean state media, accompanying reports that the missiles — launched this weekend — flew more than 900 miles before hitting their targets. the united states has described the tests as a "strategic threat". time for the headlines on bbc news... covid vaccines for 12—15 year olds have been approved by the four uk chief medical officers. they say one dose of the pfizerjob would mean fewer children will have their education disrupted this year. nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland may have broken the rules on travel quarantine at a time when the delta variant was spreading.
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and the nhs starts trials of a revolutionary new blood test that detects more than 50 types of cancer before the patient has any symptoms. scotland's first minister, nicola sturgeon, says the time for a second vote on scottish independence is approaching. delivering the closing speech at her party's virtual conference, ms sturgeon said she intended to offer a legal referendum to the scottish people by the end of 2023, if the pandemic is over. in measure after measure after measure, the evidence is overwhelming and conclusive. independence works. it works for denmark, for ireland, austria, for norway, finland and for so many others decide.
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these are disparate countries with different resources and economies, but independence works for all of them. with all our resources and talent, independence will work for scotland too. it is up to us to show the people of scotland how. the scottish government is now restarting work to make sure the choice about our country's future is a fully informed one. no one is saying there won't be challenges to overcome. we will set these out openly and honestly. nothing will fall into our laps. but, like all countries, we face challenges whatever path we take. the question is this. which option, becoming independent or being governed by westminster, equips us best to meet these challenges? that was nicola sturgeon, the first minister of scotland, speaking earlier. the scotland correspondent james shaw spoke to me earlier and explained how the idea of a new independence referendum for scotland would be
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received by borisjohnson. it is quite well— known her relationship with borisjohnson is, i suppose you would have to say, a frosty one. that was something that she acknowledged during the speech. i think she said, you know, it was clear that boris johnson was not her best friend, not her favourite person, and the same might apply to him when he was thinking about her. perhaps there is significance in that line of argument, suggesting there needs to be cooperation to achieve what the snp wants, and comparing it to what the different administrations around the uk have achieved during the covid crisis. but there is a big problem with that, and the problem essentially is that boris johnson has said that he is not minded to allow the scottish government to hold an independence referendum any time soon, perhaps within the next decade or longer. and that is an obstacle which it is really hard for nicola sturgeon to get round. she has to carry on convincing her supporters, members of the snp, delegates at this conference, this virtual conference, that hasjust finished, that there is a possibility
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of achieving the goal that they want to see as soon as possible. and so it is very hard when you have that point of view of the uk government, but she made the case that, looking around europe, you can see other small nations that have been successful, and she suggested that was a possible future for scotland. so essentially what she was saying was that there could be an independence referendum by the end of 2023, that's what she hopes — covid permitting, as she put it, in other words that the pandemic is over and not really affecting people's lives — but she said that by the end of this parliamentary term in 2026 that is when she would want to see a referendum. james shaw speaking earier. murdo fraser is the shadow
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covid recovery secretary dash thank you forjoining us and bbc news. looking at your twitter timeline, we havejust had bbc news. looking at your twitter timeline, we have just had the response to the spokesman. what is your response to what nicola sturgeon had to say?- your response to what nicola sturgeon had to say? very simple. now is not — sturgeon had to say? very simple. now is not the _ sturgeon had to say? very simple. now is not the time _ sturgeon had to say? very simple. now is not the time to _ sturgeon had to say? very simple. now is not the time to be - sturgeon had to say? very simple. i now is not the time to be discussing this. now is not the time to be discussing this there _ now is not the time to be discussing this. there are very serious challenges facing scotland today, not least — challenges facing scotland today, not least the very significant challenge of recovering from covid, and at _ challenge of recovering from covid, and at the — challenge of recovering from covid, and at the time of the election back in may— and at the time of the election back in may nicola sturgeon was very clear— in may nicola sturgeon was very clear that — in may nicola sturgeon was very clear that the priority, should she be re—elected as first minister, was to ensure _ be re—elected as first minister, was to ensure scotland's recovery from covid _ to ensure scotland's recovery from covid she — to ensure scotland's recovery from covid. she is now talking about holding — covid. she is now talking about holding another independence referendum within the next two years — referendum within the next two years i— referendum within the next two years. i saw one opinion poll mac in the last— years. i saw one opinion poll mac in the last few— years. i saw one opinion poll mac in the last few days that said that 'ust the last few days that said that just i7% — the last few days that said that just 17% of the scottish population support— just 17% of the scottish population support holding a referendum within that timescale —— one opinion poll in the _ that timescale —— one opinion poll in the last— that timescale —— one opinion poll in the last two days. this is not a priority— in the last two days. this is not a priority for— in the last two days. this is not a priority for scotland. there are far more _ priority for scotland. there are far more important things for its government to be getting on with and
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ithink— government to be getting on with and i think boris _ government to be getting on with and i think borisjohnson is quite right to say— i think borisjohnson is quite right to say now— i think borisjohnson is quite right to say now is not the time for that referendum — to say now is not the time for that referendum to be held. to to say now is not the time for that referendum to be held.— to say now is not the time for that referendum to be held. to be fair, she did say _ referendum to be held. to be fair, she did say allowing _ referendum to be held. to be fair, she did say allowing for— referendum to be held. to be fair, she did say allowing for better i she did say allowing for better circumstances regarding the pandemic. circumstances regarding the pandemic-— circumstances regarding the pandemic. circumstances regarding the andemic. ~ , ., , pandemic. well, she did say that but she still put — pandemic. well, she did say that but she still put the _ pandemic. well, she did say that but she still put the date _ pandemic. well, she did say that but she still put the date of— pandemic. well, she did say that but she still put the date of it. _ pandemic. well, she did say that but she still put the date of it. she i she still put the date of it. she still had — she still put the date of it. she still had by the end of 2023, within the first— still had by the end of 2023, within the first half of this parliamentary session— the first half of this parliamentary session in— the first half of this parliamentary session in the scottish parliament. you know. — session in the scottish parliament. you know, we know we are still riding _ you know, we know we are still riding the — you know, we know we are still riding the covid pandemic. in fact, parts _ riding the covid pandemic. in fact, parts of— riding the covid pandemic. in fact, parts of scotland have amongst the highest _ parts of scotland have amongst the highest rates of covid in europe right— highest rates of covid in europe right as — highest rates of covid in europe right as we speak, and last week there _ right as we speak, and last week there was— right as we speak, and last week there was an incredibly worrying statistic— there was an incredibly worrying statistic that said that one in 45 of the _ statistic that said that one in 45 of the scottish population now has covid, _ of the scottish population now has covid, so — of the scottish population now has covid, so we are in a very serious situation — covid, so we are in a very serious situation still. we have major problems— situation still. we have major problems in our economy, very serious — problems in our economy, very serious issues in the nhs in scotland. _ serious issues in the nhs in scotland, which is really struggling to recover~ — scotland, which is really struggling to recover. these are where the priorities— to recover. these are where the priorities of— to recover. these are where the priorities of the scottish government should be, not focusing on another— government should be, not focusing on another referendum. it is very
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important — on another referendum. it is very important to remember there is not majority_ important to remember there is not majority support in scotland either for independence or for another referendum any time soon. now for independence or for another referendum any time soon. now is not the time, referendum any time soon. now is not the time. but — referendum any time soon. now is not the time, but that _ referendum any time soon. now is not the time, but that is _ referendum any time soon. now is not the time, but that is not _ referendum any time soon. now is not the time, but that is not an _ the time, but that is not an outright know? i am like they might be some future point where there becomes a national consensus that this becomes a national consensus that thi , ., , , becomes a national consensus that thi , ., ,, ., ., this question is put again -- well, there might _ this question is put again -- well, there might be. _ this question is put again -- well, there might be. remember, i this question is put again -- well, there might be. remember, back| this question is put again -- well, i there might be. remember, back in 2014 we _ there might be. remember, back in 2014 we had the gold standard of a referendum. back in 2014 every political — referendum. back in 2014 every political party in scotland agreed there _ political party in scotland agreed there should be a referendum and every— there should be a referendum and every member of the scottish parliament at the time voted for a referendum, and there was a broad consensus — referendum, and there was a broad consensus across scottish society that that — consensus across scottish society that that question, which had never been _ that that question, which had never been asked — that that question, which had never been asked to the scottish people, it was— been asked to the scottish people, it was only— been asked to the scottish people, it was only fair that they should be asked _ it was only fair that they should be asked that — it was only fair that they should be asked that question, and nicola sturgeon — asked that question, and nicola sturgeon and her colleagues told us that would be a once in a generation vote _ that would be a once in a generation vote here _ that would be a once in a generation vote. here we are, seven years on next _ vote. here we are, seven years on next week, _ vote. here we are, seven years on next week, that is not a generation, after— next week, that is not a generation, after seven— next week, that is not a generation, after seven years. there may be a future _ after seven years. there may be a future point — after seven years. there may be a future point where it is right to ask that —
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future point where it is right to ask that question but we are nowhere close to _ ask that question but we are nowhere close to it— ask that question but we are nowhere close to it right at the moment. is close to it right at the moment. is there close to it right at the moment. there an close to it right at the moment. is there an element of not wanting to put that question out to the scottish people again? is this something that borisjohnson doesn't want to risk, at the end of the day? rather than, you said you would do it once and that's it?— it once and that's it? look, if you look at the _ it once and that's it? look, if you look at the opinion _ it once and that's it? look, if you look at the opinion polls, - it once and that's it? look, if you look at the opinion polls, there i it once and that's it? look, if you i look at the opinion polls, there was a point _ look at the opinion polls, there was a point last— look at the opinion polls, there was a point last year where the opinion polls— a point last year where the opinion polls seem — a point last year where the opinion polls seem to suggest there was a majority_ polls seem to suggest there was a majority of support in scotland for independence. since that time the figures _ independence. since that time the figures have gone backwards and the latest _ figures have gone backwards and the latest figures would suggest support for independence continues to decline — for independence continues to decline i_ for independence continues to decline. i don't think we should be making _ decline. i don't think we should be making these judgments based on snapchat opinion polls. i think we should _ snapchat opinion polls. i think we should be — snapchat opinion polls. i think we should be making them based on what is good _ should be making them based on what is good for— should be making them based on what is good for scotland and good for the interests of the scottish people —— snapshot opinion polls. i think there _ —— snapshot opinion polls. i think there are — —— snapshot opinion polls. ! think there are far— —— snapshot opinion polls. i think there are far greater priorities at there are far greater priorities at the moment. all of the service of opinions — the moment. all of the service of opinions of— the moment. all of the service of opinions of scottish people would suggest _ opinions of scottish people would suggest that when asked to rank
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their— suggest that when asked to rank their priorities people see their priorities— their priorities people see their priorities at the moment is being recovery— priorities at the moment is being recovery from covid, jobs, the nhs and schools. an independence and another— and schools. an independence and another referendum comes along, long way down _ another referendum comes along, long way down that list. dashing and independence. of course we have not heard _ independence. of course we have not heard from _ independence. of course we have not heard from the snp. we only heard today— heard from the snp. we only heard today -- _ heard from the snp. we only heard today -- we — heard from the snp. we only heard today —— we never heard today from the first _ today —— we never heard today from the first minister any answers to the first minister any answers to the serious questions remaining about— the serious questions remaining about independence, about how much it would _ about independence, about how much it would cost, because the fiscal transfer — it would cost, because the fiscal transfer from the rest of the uk to scotland _ transfer from the rest of the uk to scotland now totals £2200 in the last year. — scotland now totals £2200 in the last year, so how that money would be replaced, what would be the economic— be replaced, what would be the economic basis for scotland, what would _ economic basis for scotland, what would be — economic basis for scotland, what would be the relationship with the rest of— would be the relationship with the rest of the uk, would there be a hard _ rest of the uk, would there be a hard border with their biggest trading — hard border with their biggest trading partners in england, wales and northern ireland? finally, what with the _ and northern ireland? finally, what with the currency of independent scotland — with the currency of independent scotland be? we have no answers to these _ scotland be? we have no answers to these questions. until we start to -et these questions. until we start to get some — these questions. until we start to get some answers, we can't possibly put the _ get some answers, we can't possibly put the question of independence to a vote _ put the question of independence to a vote of— put the question of independence to a vote of the scottish people. gk,
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a vote of the scottish people. ok, murdo fraser. _ a vote of the scottish people. ok murdo fraser, shadow covid a vote of the scottish people. (zjk murdo fraser, shadow covid recovery secretary for scotland, thank you very much indeed. now, protesters demanding government action on home insulation have partially blocked several junctions on the m25. tens of thousands of motorists trying to use the uk's busiest motorway faced long delays while activists sat on the road holding banners. police said more than 30 people had been arrested for highways obstruction. protest group insulate britain said action would go on until a "meaningful commitment" was made. a court in new york is due to hold a pre—trial hearing this afternoon, in the civil case filed by a woman who claims the duke of york sexually assaulted her when she was 17. our royal correspondent jonny dymond is here told me what we were expecting. this is important because it's the first time that the judge
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and the lawyers for the woman who has actually made this allegation, virginia giuffre, have actually met. and what we expect is a consideration of whether or not and how this case might go forward. prince andrew has always denied the allegation of sexual assault — he says he can't remember meeting this woman, and his team have pretty much dismissed this case. this is a civil case, not a criminal case, a claim for compensation and damages, and his team have nearly alwaysjust said, "no comment, nothing to say about this case." now they are faced with the question of whether or not the court will accept that the allegations have been formally put to prince andrew, whether or not papers were served on him. this might sound like a fairly tedious technicality, but it is really important. if thejudge says, "yes, ok, i acknowledge that the papers have been served on prince andrew," something his lawyers are casting doubt on, then we will get some idea or we may get some idea as to how and whether this case will actually proceed. if the case does proceed, prince andrew has a decision to make.
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so far he has pretty much knocked it to one side, or his team have. as i say, "no comment", and as we understand it his lawyers won't be turning up to the pre—trial conference today. but if the judge says, "this case can go ahead," prince andrew needs to decide, is he then going to make any representation to the court? is he going to make any case to the court? will he have lawyers to the court? or does he risk the court, if he doesn't turn up in any shape or form or his lawyers doubt, does he risk the court simply finding him guilty through his absence? so far it has been about the exchange of paperwork. this is the first time the judge in at least some of the lawyers get together and it is an important procedural moment. that was jonny dymond giving that wasjonny dymond giving us the latest regarding a court hearing we
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are expecting to follow from new york later today, and of course the duke of york denying any of those claims of sexual assault. now, britain's emma raducanu says she's ready for anything and can cope with her sudden rise to stardom after winning the us open. tennis stars past and present have continued to praise the 18—year—old's astonishing performance — she beat leylah fernandez on saturday to become the first qualifier, and first british woman for 44 years, to win a grand slam singles title. she is now predicted to become one of the biggest earners in tennis. our sports correspondent laura scott's report contains flash photography. by by now i emma raducanu might have begun to believe this is real. she did it and her name is on the wall to prove it. she has had a day to reflect on her achievements, as has the tennis world, but still there is a sense of shock. j’m the tennis world, but still there is a sense of shock.— a sense of shock. i'm 'ust so thrilled that i a sense of shock. i'm just so thrilled that somebody i a sense of shock. i'm just so thrilled that somebody as i a sense of shock. i'm just so i thrilled that somebody as good as emma has come along and take in the
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world by absolute storm, and just been brilliant. as far as the tension and the sponsorships and that, she has to be protected, because, yes, it is quite —— with every guest you say there is quite a stressful commitment. she can pick and choose the best of them. —— with every yes you say. and choose the best of them. -- with every yes you say-— every yes you say. raducanu ended the wait for — every yes you say. raducanu ended the wait for a _ every yes you say. raducanu ended the wait for a british _ every yes you say. raducanu ended the wait for a british singles - the wait for a british singles champion, watched by 9.2 million people. she becomes the world plasma 23, up from 150 at the start of the tournament. as the us open comes to a close, britain notjust celebrating one win, but there were four titles. two forjoe salisbury and more doubles glory for alfie hewett and gordon reid, but the young woman in the middle will inevitably garner the most attention. she is already generating huge global appeal with this off—the—cuff message to her fans in
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china. off-the-cuff message to her fans in china. ~ ., , off-the-cuff message to her fans in china. ~ . , , off-the-cuff message to her fans in china. ~ . , ., china. what is the message to ounuer china. what is the message to younger athletes? _ china. what is the message to younger athletes? america's i china. what is the message to i younger athletes? america's biggest tv shows are — younger athletes? america's biggest tv shows are queueing _ younger athletes? america's biggest tv shows are queueing up _ younger athletes? america's biggest tv shows are queueing up to - younger athletes? america's biggest tv shows are queueing up to talk - younger athletes? america's biggest tv shows are queueing up to talk to | tv shows are queueing up to talk to the teenage star. raducanu shot to fame faster than anyone could have imagined, or prepared herfor. protecting her now will be key to preserving herfuture. that was laura scott reporting. britney spears has revealed she's engaged to her long—term boyfriend, sam asghari. the announcement comes days after the american singer's father filed court papers to end his control of her life and career. britney spears said the legal arrangement had prevented her from marrying mr asghari or having more children. now it's time for a look at the weather with sarah keith lucas. it's a bit of the day of mixed fortunes, weather—wise, today, but for some of us, particularly in the east, there are some spells of sunshine around. most places are fairly cloudy
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with outbreaks of rain and drizzle. the rain mostly across western parts of the uk. so heading through the rest of today we have high pressure setting out towards the east. these two weather fronts that you can see just waiting in the wings towards the west, bringing more cloud and outbreaks of rain, so patchy rain for the south—west of england and wales, into parts of northern england, south—west scotland and northern ireland. into tonight, that continues its progress north. it becomes quite heavy through much of england and wales as we start the early hours of tuesday morning. so tomorrow, then, a cloudy, damp start to the day for most of us. still quite mild. quite humid, especially in the south. a few clearer spells further north. but this rain across much of england and wales could be quite heavy and persistent. there is the chance of localised flooding perhaps for the midlands up towards parts of north—east england as well. some drier and brighter weather further west and highs around 16—20 degrees. bye— bye.
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hello. this is bbc news. the headlines. covid vaccines for 12—15 year olds have been approved by the four uk chief medical officers. they say one dose of the pfizerjob would mean fewer children will have their education disrupted this year. nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland,
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may have broken the rules on travel quarantine, at a time when the delta variant was spreading. the nhs starts trials of a revolutionary new blood test that detects more than 50 types of cancer, before the patient has any symptoms. the bbc obtains new evidence that the taliban are killing civilians in afghanistan. nicola sturgeon says the success of other small european countries shows that independence could work for scotland as well. and what's next for emma? british tennis legends offer their advice to the teen queen, emma raducanu. sport and for a full round—up from the bbc sport centre, here's jane. emma raducanu has been reflecting on her phenomenal us open victory, saying she credits her parents with helping her to cope with the occasion.
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the 18—year—old beat canadian leyla fernandez in straight sets to become the first qualifier and first british woman for 44 years, to win a grand slam singles title. raducanu's mother and father were unable to be in new york, but speaking to abc's good morning america, she paid tribute to them, calling them �*her biggest critics', but that the way they raised her had shaped who she was — and that had helped her handle the pressure during the final in front of a full arthur ashe stadium. staying at the us open, daniil medvedev says he's incredibly happy after winning his first grand slam title. the russian number two seed beat novak djokovic in straight sets in the men's final to end the world number one�*s hopes of taking the calendar slam. djokovic had won this year's three other major tournaments, but looked completely lost at times, particularly when he was on the way to losing the second set. the end wasn't long in coming
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and medvedev completed an emphatic victory to win his first grand slam. he was going for huge history, and knowing that i managed to stop him definitely makes it sweeter, and brings me confidence for what is to come. i wasjust below par, you know, with my game. my legs were not there. i was trying. i did my best. but, yeah, i made a lot of unforced errors. i didn't have no serve. the draw has taken place for the group stages of the women's champions league. last season's finalists chelsea have a tough group withjuventus, wolfsburg and servette. but so do arsenal — they'll play the holders barcelona, and hoffenheim, plus danish side hb koge.
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and the stage is set for the ryder cup later this month, with europe captain padraig harrington making his wildcard picks. but england's lee westwood didn't need one after qualifying automatically. he just did enough at the pga championship at wentworth to get into the places to compete for europe for the 11th time against the united states. the tournament was won by america's billy horschel. shane lowry didn't play himself into the team automatically, but was last night named as a wildcard, as were ian poulter and sergio garcia. however, justin rose misses out. if either he or sergio weren't in the form that they were in, it would have beenjr in. that's just the way it is. but both sergio and ian are playing very well, and consistent, and solid, and dependable, and they've been doing it for a while. jr has come good right at the end, you know, but as i said,
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the other two [ads have been there longer. and australia cricket captain tim paine has said he will be fit for the ashes, despite needing surgery to treat a pinched nerve in his neck. the test captain has a bulging disc and is scheduled to undergo surgery soon. despite that, he expects to be back in full training by next month, with the first ashes test against england to begin in brisbane on the 8th of december. that's all the sport for now. i'll have more for you in the next hour. the leader of the tuc says the uk must be better prepared for future economic shocks like the covid pandemic, saying it won't be a one off. in a speech to the tuc congress, frances o'grady challenged the prime minister to deliver on his promises to level up britain. our business correspondent ben thompson says she gave a stark assessment of the economy.
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she highlights some of the problems that have been made worse through covid, but also those that were there already that maybe have got a little worse, too. she says the pandemic must be a catalyst for change. she says we must be prepared for crises in future. she says covid is not going to be a one—off. she also talks about things like climate change, that race to zero emissions, that if we don't take those targets seriously, they will get worse, and there will be a bigger problem. she also talks about new technology, wonderful, all these new machines and computers that can do jobs. they are a risk to jobs and she says we mustn't squander those benefits and that workers must feel the benefit, maybe in shorter hours or higher pay, notjust big profits for the organisations investing in technology. also some warning for the government as far as tax is concerned, take a listen. now ministers tell us they're going to level up britain. but levelling up means nothing if they freeze workers' pay,
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slash universal credit, and the number of kids in poverty soars. so i have a challenge for the prime minister — if levelling up means anything, it must mean levelling up at work, and levelling up living standards. she was alluding to the tax rises that have been in the headlines last few days. particularly, as far as that national insurance raises concern. she says that is another hit to young people and those on lower wages. she talks about those recent hgv driver sources we have been —— shortages we have been talking about comments as it is a direct consequence of poor pay and poor working conditions for drivers,
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meaning they are not injury at —— entering the industry and causing 70 supply problems. they are proposing the solution would be a capital gains tax, a tax on wealth, rather than lower paid people. she says that could be enough to pay for social care that we have heard the prime minister telling us is so desperately needed. she said the benefit of not taxing lower paid workers too is that people will tend to spend that money on the local high street, in the local economy, so we all see a direct benefit, because she suggest those on the highest income that are not being taxed on their wealth, may be called that money elsewhere we don't see the benefit in our day to day economy. coming up injust under 20 minutes, the uk's four chief medical officers will hold a live briefing and press conference at downing street about the decision
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to offer 12 to is—year—olds covid va so far we understand it will be pfizer. the chief medical officers for england, scotland, wales and northern ireland will be among the speakers. stay with us for that. particularly if you work in a school or are a parent. from clapping on the doorstep, to putting posters in windows — over the course of the pandemic, many people showed a sense of pride in the nhs. but, a new survey also indicates a sense of disappointment and frustration in the service — with one in five people saying they've been forced to go private. our home editor mark easton has more. covid has inspired a wave of love for the national health service. applause. at the height of the pandemic, tens of millions of us stood on our doorsteps to show our appreciation. a new poll suggests the nhs makes more than three quarters of people proud to be british. i was suicidal. i came out of that appointment and said to my partner, i want to die.
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i've had enough of this. dee, who lives in south wales, says she loves the nhs but in the end she spent her life savings on private care for her endometriosis, because the national health service left her feeling dismissed, disrespected and desperate. i did not want to die, ijust wanted it to be better, i wanted it to stop. you just feel like nobody believes you and nobody is listening to you. the idea of the nhs makes us proud, but research by engage britain suggests our experience of it often disappoints us. in a poll, 28% of people said they had had to fight to get the treatment they needed. over a quarter of people said they felt dismissed, or not taken seriously, a figure that rises to 45% among young women. we really love the nhs. this is an institution that truly is valued across this country. but that is sitting at the same time with lots of us having really quite traumatic experiences.
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the question raised by the research is whether public affection for the model means inadequate attention is given to what the s stands for in nhs. it's just the time it takes to get everything you need, _ and being on hold for hoursjust- to get a simple question answered, or waiting for five or six. months just to get a chat with a physiotherapist, - and it'sjust really frustrating. floss, who comes from leicestershire, was born with cerebral palsy, and has been getting treatment from the nhs since she was a child. but her feelings about the service changed when she reached adulthood. when i got to the age of 18, - they said, "oh, you're an adult now, "so unless you need anything. constantly, we're going to write "you off our books". an extraordinary one in four people in today's poll say the wait for nhs
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treatment for themselves or a loved one has seriously damaged their mental health. and one in five people say they've been forced to go private, because they couldn't get the nhs treatment they needed. britain is proud to have its nhs. it recognises the pressure staff are under, and applauds their sacrifice. but the evidence suggests too many patients and their families feel they are lost in an institution that often doesn't have the time to listen. mark easton, bbc news. a bbc panorama investigation has uncovered evidence suggesting that one of britain's biggest companies paid a bribe to the former zimbabwean dictator, robert mugabe. british american tobacco is also accused of paying bribes and using illegal surveillance methods to damage its rivals in south africa. bat says it is committed to the highest standards of corporate conduct and transparency wherever it operates. richard bilton reports:
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these are the forests of mahikeng, in rural south africa. peter snyders lives here now, but he used to have a different life. breaking the law to help british american tobacco sabotage its competitors. they said that we must tap their telephones, do physical surveillance on them, on their trucks — where the consignments are going to, and follow them all over. did bat know you were doing that? they were giving us money to do that. bat is one of the uk's ten biggest companies. but working with the bureau of investigativejournalism and the university of bath, we found evidence it was breaking the law to undermine rivals. documents and insiders revealed an extraordinary incident in zimbabwe.
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three members of a firm working on behalf of bat were arrested, suspected of spying. the document shows zimbabwean officials wanted a payment of between 300,000 and 500,000 us dollars to mr mugabe's party to get the case dropped. effectively, a bribe to a dictator. the files don't show the bribe being paid, but the men were released. this man was sent in to negotiate the deal for bat. they would have to pay to get what they want, including these three men out of prison? that's exactly the deal that was brokered. is there a chance that, because that meeting happened, friendships were formed and they got what they wanted without paying any money? absolutely not. that's fa ntasyland. so you get what you want by paying the money? and only by paying the money.
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when asked by the bbc, bat didn't deny paying a bribe to a dictator. it said it emphatically rejects the mischaracterisation of its conduct, and that it was helping law enforcement agencies combat the trade in illicit cigarettes. it said it fully cooperated with a serious fraud office investigation, which included allegations relating to south africa and resulted in no action. what we have found is a company that stopped at nothing to sell cigarettes. richard bilton, bbc news. and you can see that edition of panorama on bbc one tonight, at 7:30pm, and then later on iplayer. the headlines on bbc news... covid vaccines for 12—15 year olds have been approved by the four uk chief medical officers. they say one dose of the pfizerjob would mean fewer children will have their education disrupted this year.
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nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland may have broken the rules on travel quarantine at a time when the delta variant was spreading. the nhs starts trials of a revolutionary new blood test that detects more than 50 types of cancer before the patient has any symptoms. the crown prosecution service has told the bbc that it has left a workplace equality scheme run by the lgbt charity stonewall, just months after it defended its membership at the high court. the diversity champions programme boasts hundreds of members across the public and private spheres, but it has come under increased scrutiny after allegations that some of stonewall�*s advice may be unlawful, a claim which stonewall very strongly denies.
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with me now is our correspondentjohn mcmanus. john, just lay this out for us please, for people who are coming to this story fresh.— this story fresh. yes, stonewall's diversity champions _ this story fresh. yes, stonewall's diversity champions scheme - this story fresh. yes, stonewall's diversity champions scheme has| this story fresh. yes, stonewall's - diversity champions scheme has been running for a few years. it says it is intended to make workplaces welcoming for lesbian, bisexual, and transgender staff. people get advice on how to follow equality law and perhaps a bit more as well. stonewall says it tries to make sure companies go beyond that and do better. it says that all members of staff should be made to feel welcome but some of the advice is contentious. for example, which toilets trans— members of staff should use, or whether all members of staff should use pronounced to make other members of staff feel welcome. that advice has been coming under increasing scrutiny. a few
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months ago, the university of essex apologised to two female speakers who had been the platform after being accused of transphobia, something they denied. in the reporting of the incident they found that stonewall may have given potentially illegal advice to the university, which stonewall denies. meanwhile, the crown prosecution service, while it was still a member of this scheme, also issued some anti—hate crime guidance to schools. an unnamed teenage girl went to the high court asked for a judicial review to ask the cps to leave the scheme. ultimately the cps won that battle and it remained in the scheme, but now several months later it has left. why? they have told me that although they are proud to have a diverse workforce, and they want to support lgbt staff, they have carried out a review of the scheme, they have decided to end their membership but they are going to carry on with other quality membership schemes that they are already a part of. it is worth saying that the anti—hate graham
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guidance —— crime guidance they issued to schools was withdrawn because it was so contentious. the cps is just the latest to leave the scheme, the equality and human rights commission left last year, and only last month ofcom also left. they said they needed to do it because they needed to remain impartial and because they needed to remain impartialand i because they needed to remain impartial and i understand that decision was made because of the sometimes contentious, they're perfectly legal, campaigns that stonewall takes part in, on issues particularly to do with trans rights. in particularly to do with trans ri . hts. , ., particularly to do with trans riahts. , ., .,. ., particularly to do with trans riahts. , ., ., ., rights. in terms of reaction from stonewall. _ rights. in terms of reaction from stonewall, have _ rights. in terms of reaction from stonewall, have they _ rights. in terms of reaction from stonewall, have they elaborated rights. in terms of reaction from i stonewall, have they elaborated a little bit more? i mean, they have denied it, like we said, but anything else?— denied it, like we said, but anything else? each time an organisation _ anything else? each time an organisation like _ anything else? each time an organisation like the - anything else? each time an organisation like the ehrc l anything else? each time an | organisation like the ehrc or anything else? each time an - organisation like the ehrc or ofcom leave, stonewall says it is glad they feel confident to carry out their own equality work without their own equality work without their help, they say it has put them on the right path but it also says it will continue working with them as necessary. with regard to the cps, stonewall says it will carry on working with the organisation to
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make sure that lgbtq people are treated fairly in the courts, and also says despite some of the negative stories coming out, they say the diversity champions programme is growing and they have new members, though it is also worth saying it is not possible to access their web page on that. they closed it to the public.— when former singer tanya beige was told she would lose her voice to throat cancer, she immediately began to create a video diary, so that her young children would remember what she sounded like. now, thanks to a special project, she's able to do something she never thought would be possible again — perform live on stage. fiona lamdin reports. this is my voice, and i'm not going to have it for much longer. well, not this one, anyway. tanja made this recording just hours after being told she had throat cancer. two days later, as the country went
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into the first lockdown, tanja had a laryngectomy to remove her voicebox. i was absolutely devastated. like, my daughter was not even two, so she was learning to talk. once upon a time there was a boy called charlie cook who curled up in a cosy chair and read his favourite book. every time i spoke, or sang a nursery rhyme with the kids or read a story, i was like, this is the last time, not much longer. you know, three days, two days, one day before surgery. so it's so weird, when you know that something is going to get taken away from you. when tanja first woke up, she couldn't speak, but she was fitted with a valve in her neck. when she presses it, it produces sound. when you heard your new voice for the first time, what did you think? i was absolutely horrified. i think i sounded like a tractor or something, it was just like this weird, low, guttural vibrating noise that came out.
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this is what i sound like this evening. i've just come downstairs from putting the kids to bed. i managed to get through an entire storybook. and for the next few months, she had chemo and radiotherapy while she relearned how to speak. when i dream, i dream in my old voice, and i'm like, oh, i've got my old voice back. shall we see what it looks like on my neck? yeah. sticky. it's going to be sticky. tanja has always been open with her children. before the operation, she prepared them for the changes, and sometimes her five—year—old son rudy still needs to talk about them. he said, "i miss your voice, mummy," and i'm like, yeah, i miss it too. and we went and sat on the sofa and had a cuddle and got a little bit, we were a bit sad, had a bit of a cry.
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and he just said, "but your old voice was so lovely and beautiful, mummy". i'm going to the party. going to the party? tanja used to love to sing on stage, around the house, and in the car. he's going to sleep, he's gone to sleep. not being able to sing happy birthday, you know, kind of regretting that. but i'm like, why didn't i record myself singing happy birthday? and then i could play it for the kids on their birthdays. things like that, i think, that gets me almost more than the talking bit. and after 18 months, for the first time, she is back on stage. performing a duet all about herjourney. singing together. the soprano represents her old voice.
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it makes me really happy, and it makes me really sad, because obviously what comes out is not at all what used to come out. i miss my voice. i think i'll always miss it. you know, i can be ok with it, and i can accept it, but there will always be an element of, you know, it's part of me and now it's gone. i love you both, oh, so very much. fiona lamdin, bbc news. the sale of two rare ferrari cars, worth many millions of pounds, has helped pay for a new lifeboat boathouse in north wales. the 19605 cars were donated to lifeboat charity rnli by footwear entrepreneur and classic car enthusiast richard colton, after he died in 2015. some of that money was used to fund a boathouse on the gwynedd coast, which officially opened this weekend.
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participants at the brighton marathon yesterday got a bit more than they signed up for, when the course ended up being slightly longer than than the usual 26.2 miles. organisers apologised, after they realised the route was a third of a mile longer than it was supposed to be. around 12,000 runners took part — but the mistake was only spotted after they'd set off. now it's time for a look at the weather with sarah keith lucas. it's a bit of a day of mixed fortunes, weather—wise, today, but for some of us, particularly in the east, there are some spells of sunshine around. but most places are fairly cloudy with outbreaks of rain and drizzle. the rain mostly across western parts of the uk. so heading through the rest of today, we have high pressure sitting out towards the east. these two weather fronts that you can see just waiting in the wings towards the west,
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bringing more cloud and outbreaks of rain, so patchy rain for the south—west of england and wales, into parts of northern england, south—west scotland and northern ireland. into tonight, that continues its progress north. it becomes quite heavy through much of england and wales as we start the early hours of tuesday morning. so tomorrow, then, a cloudy, damp start to the day for most of us. still quite mild. quite humid, especially in the south. a few clearer spells further north. but this rain across much of england and wales could be quite heavy and persistent. there is the chance of localised flooding, perhaps, for the midlands up towards parts of north—east england as well. some drier and brighter weather further west and highs around 16—20. bye— bye. this is bbc news. now, the four chief medical officers for the uk have recommended today that all children aged 12 to 15 years old should be offered one dose of the pfizer covid vaccine. they said it would help reduce disruption to the education of that age group. we are expecting a news conference to be held shortly. anna collison is here
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with me. she has been following this story all morning. so this is significant, why? let'sjust lay significant, why? let's just lay that significant, why? let'sjust lay that out first. it significant, why? let's 'ust lay that out first.�* that out first. it is really significant, _ that out first. it is really significant, because - that out first. it is really significant, because up| that out first. it is really - significant, because up until now, only children aged between 12 and 15 who had certain types of health conditions, orwho who had certain types of health conditions, or who lived with someone who wears particularly at risk of covid, were eligible for a covid vaccine. but this afternoon, the uk's four chief medical officer sent a letter to ministers saying that should now be expanded, that they want to include all 12 to is—year—olds. and they sort of built on the advice that came from the jcvi, the uk's advisory panel on vaccines. they built on their advice, which was released ten days ago. their advice was that there was ago. their advice was that there was a marginal benefit, but they couldn't recommend it on health grounds alone. the four chief medical officers have then looked at their advice and built on it and expanded it out, and they say the
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particular thing they are focusing on is education, the devastating impact that the covid pandemic has had on education, face—to—face contact, and that it has particularly affected those from deprived areas and it can actually have a life lasting longer in effect, both mentally and physically. d0 effect, both mentally and physically-— effect, both mentally and .h sicall. ~ ., effect, both mentally and -h sicall. ~ ., physically. do you know, when you sa that, physically. do you know, when you say that. just _ physically. do you know, when you say that, just listening _ physically. do you know, when you say that, just listening to - physically. do you know, when you say that, just listening to what - physically. do you know, when you say that, just listening to what you j say that, just listening to what you said, particularly in those deprived areas, which often reflects those from different ethnic backgrounds. isn't it those particular groups that have also shown a high level of vaccine hesitancy?— vaccine hesitancy? yes, and i mean there is an — vaccine hesitancy? yes, and i mean there is an issue _ vaccine hesitancy? yes, and i mean there is an issue that _ vaccine hesitancy? yes, and i mean there is an issue that we _ vaccine hesitancy? yes, and i mean there is an issue that we find - vaccine hesitancy? yes, and i mean there is an issue that we find with l there is an issue that we find with vaccine hesitancy, if anything a sort of mandated, if you are particularly hesitant, then that may entrench your views further. what we're hearing about the idea this age group being vaccinated as a positive one, those children want to have their lives back to normal, see theirfriends, do the have their lives back to normal, see their friends, do the things they
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have been able to do. so currently right now it does feel like quite a positive reaction to everything that is going on. 50 positive reaction to everything that is auoin on. , positive reaction to everything that is going on-— positive reaction to everything that is auoin on. , ., is going on. so 'ust a reminder, we have the four — is going on. sojust a reminder, we have the four cmos _ is going on. sojust a reminder, we have the four cmos attending. - is going on. sojust a reminder, we| have the four cmos attending. who else will be there? so have the four cmos attending. who else will be there?— else will be there? so yes, as you sa , the else will be there? so yes, as you say. the four— else will be there? so yes, as you say, the four chief _ else will be there? so yes, as you say, the four chief medical - say, the four chief medical officers, including chris whitty, who we have heard from a lot over the last 18 months, talking a lot about the importance of education not disrupting school. also the deputy chief medical officer for england, jonathan van tam. he is particularly popular with the public, he is off wheeled out when delivering public messaging. people seem to respond to him well. he was trying to reassure people about the safety of the vaccine and said he would encourage his mum to get it. we will also hearfrom would encourage his mum to get it. we will also hear from the uk's regulator, drjune raine, and prof wei shen lim. it will be interesting
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to see what they say. what we are going to hear about a lot is, this isn't the chief medical officer is calling out the jcvi, isn't the chief medical officer is calling out thejcvi, this is very much a team effort. they are all very aware that this is an extremely complicated decision. this isn't like when you are thinking about elderly people who are really at risk of covid. when we are thinking about 12 to 15—year—olds, the risk of covid is extremely rare, and then you are balancing it against the risk of very, very rare side effects. risk of very, very rare side effects-— risk of very, very rare side effects. �* , ., ., , effects. i'm 'ust going to 'ump in, because effects. i'm just going to 'ump in, because the i effects. i'm just going to 'ump in, because the first h effects. i'm just going to 'ump in, because the first of _ effects. i'm just going to 'ump in, because the first of the h effects. i'm just going to jump in, because the first of the speakers| because the first of the speakers have arrived. we have some in—person speakers and also some joining remotely. let's listen. we have professor chris whitty sitting in the middle of that table, just moving their papers around and preparing. get for we go. i papers around and preparing. get for we no. . papers around and preparing. get for we .0_ ., ., papers around and preparing. get for we 0. ., ., papers around and preparing. get for we no. . ., ., , , we go. i am rather hoping we will be 'oined b we go. i am rather hoping we will be joined by our — we go. i am rather hoping we will be joined by our colleagues _ we go. i am rather hoping we will be joined by our colleagues from - joined by our colleagues from scotland, wales and northern ireland. i would like to firstly
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introduce everybody here, and say on behalf of them it is excellent to see you all in person. very nice to see you all in person. very nice to see you all in person. very nice to see you and i look forward to discussing see you and i look forward to discussin- questions subsequently. see you and i look forward to discussing see you and i look forward to discussin- questions subsequently. i discussing questions subsequently. i am chris whitty, the chief medical officerfor england, here in london drjune raine, the head of the independent regulator, and on my right professor wei shen lim, the chair of thejcvi, and we very much listen to their advice. i am very pleased to be joined listen to their advice. i am very pleased to bejoined by listen to their advice. i am very pleased to be joined by the other cmos of the other nations, dr gregor smith in scotland, dr frank atherton in wales and dr michael mcbride in northern ireland. thank you for joining us today. what i will do today on behalf of all the cmos is layout our logic of where we have got to and then i am going to invite
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dr raine, as they start this process as an independent regulator, and then dr lin, as thejcvi very much takes the next stage, before we move on to my colleagues in the other three nations. the reason we wanted to lay this out fairly clearly as it is obviously a difficult decision which is the reason the cmos were asked to take a view on this. in all of what i am about to say i want to start from the first principle of medicine, which is it is always about balancing risk and benefit and if by doing something the benefits exceed the risks compared to not doing something then it is a sensible thing to do, and if the other way round it is not. that is basically central to all of medicine. there's almost no area of medicine. there's almost no area of medicine which is risk—free to what you are always trying to do is balance risk against benefit and thatis balance risk against benefit and that is true in this decision as all
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other ones. when it comes to vaccination for children 12—15 there are several stages we have gone through already before we come to what we have said today. the first is that the independent regulator nhra examined the data and their judgment was all those aged 12 and above for the vaccines, and i will give a shorthand pfizer and moderna, that they authorise these four years and gave them a licence at this stage in time, based on the efficacy, how effective they are, and the side effects, as understood from trials to date. so that is where they are and of course the continual process of continuing to look at both efficacy and side—effects in due course. jcvi, the independent scientific advisory committee, they then took that on and they have given two very
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important and in a sense of adjacent views about the use of these vaccines in children and young people. the first of which, they have given a clear recommendation that for children and young people over the age of 12 who are themselves in a particularly high risk group, and they have given a list of those groups, or, importantly, living with people immunosuppressed, then they recommend people 12 and above have two vaccines, so that is already a decisionjcvi has taken and others have followed. secondly, they have recommended that young people aged 16 and 17 get a first dose of vaccination and that that dose of vaccination and that that dose of vaccination is offered to everybody, and that supplements the two vaccines offered to everybody 18 and above. so that is the current situation. on the situation of looking at children and young people
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aged 12—15 who are not in the high—risk group, so their view on the high risk group stands, so what i am about to say refers to everybody else, they looked at the risk and looked at the benefit and view was the benefits exceeded the risk but that the difference between these two wires, in their words, marginal, and that is because the risk is small and the benefit is small. the benefit exceeds the risk, but by a small margin, and by the usual assessment in terms of individual risk and benefit their judgment was they wouldn't normally in the situation recommend the roll—out of a vaccine. but, to be clear, they did say that benefit exceeds risk, and i think it is important to start with that principle. they also, however, and very atypically, made a suggestion to ministers that because there were also wider issues at stake for children and young people of this age that the ministers consulted the
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four chief medical officers, and thatis four chief medical officers, and that is what has happened. so ministers were following a suggestion ofjcvi that the wider situation... so that is where we got to in terms of why cmos were asked to in terms of why cmos were asked to do this. it was following a suggestion from jcvi. now and in doing this, the chief medical officers have taken several principles i want to lay out, and i realise this is a long preamble but i really want people to understand this. the first principle is that we will only consider, and we have only considered, risks and benefits that actually accrue to children and young people 12—15. so we have not considered any benefits that might accrue to adults or anyone else. this is purely about children of the age group we are talking about. that is a first for an important starting point. the second important starting point. the second important starting point was we did not intend to come
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and we fully agree with, the assessments of mhra, as the independent regulator, and jcvi, as the scientific advisory group. so we have not gone over any of their data again. we have simply taken it as read, and they did a very useful table of risks against benefits for those who want to look at the numbers and dr lin can talk about that if people are interested, but we have taken their numbers as red. the third thing we decided was we wanted this to be a central view as best as we could assess it —— took it as read. an assessment of the medical, scientific and public health professions, and to achieve that in addition to looking at data which we have done independently outside of what the jcvi has looked at, and we also consulted the presidents of the royal college of general practitioners, of children's health com of the faculty of health and the royal college of psychiatristss looking at issues around mental health and we have
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additionally consulted leader clinic in public health from around all the of england and scotland, wales and northern ireland —— leaders in public health. so we have tried to have a very broad view about where things come from, and i suspect when professional colleagues respond back they will fully accept what we are trying to do is get a middle view of where we think the profession is, that this is not an outlier view but a middle view of where we think the profession is at this point in time. so that is the preamble, and ijust want to lay that out to people understood the process. in terms of ourjudgment, the starting point of course isjcvi saying there is an advantage but it is marginal, so there is onlyjustification for roll—out of a universal offer if the risks and benefits on the additional things we can look at are actually material. in particular, we looked at education, which is clearly
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central to the consideration of anything for children and young people 12—15, and we also looked at operational issues, for example how does this interfere with flu vaccination and other areas. we didn't go back over the clinical ground becausejcvi has already covered that and we fully agree with their assessment. and when we did this, we had some extremely powerful evidence, both numerically but also from our colleagues working particularly in areas of deprivation around the country and also general practitioner colleagues, and also colleagues in mental health, and they all made the same point, which is the disruption in education that has happened over the last period since march 2020 has been extraordinarily difficult for children and had a big impact on health, mental health and long—term public health. and that this is most apparent in areas of deprivation. they were very clear on that. so the
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question for the third man on the educational side, accepting that advice, which completely concords with all the data we have, was, will vaccination reduce the disruption and therefore reduce these very significant negative impacts? and our assessment is the answer to that is yes, it will reduce educational disruption. we do not think that this is a panacea, it is not a silver bullet, not a single thing that on its own will do so, but we think it is an important and potentially useful additional tool to help reduce the public health impacts that come through educational disruption. so that has been really critical in our decision—making, and this is true whether we are talking about individuals, physical health, their mental health, or the long—term effects that a disrupted education can have on people's life chances. so that is very much where a lot of our discussion lay, and we did think that on balance it was likely to improve things. we looked at the negative sides, and there are some
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issues around operational issues, particularly around vaccination, but the argument that the benefits, that this was likely to lead to outweighing that. the overall assessment was combining the marginal assessed benefit the jcvi made at an individual level, taking on board additionally the issues around education, and our view was the benefit exceeded the risk to a sufficient degree that we are recommending to our ministers in all four nations that they make a universal offer, and i want to stress the word offer, or vaccination to children 12—15 in addition to the ones that have already been made. that is our current advice to ministers and it is now with them to decide in each of the four nations how they wish to respond. ijust want of the four nations how they wish to respond. i just want to add one additional thing, and then i would like to ask dr raine and professor
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to speak, then we will turn to my professional colleagues. we want to make it very clear that this balanced decision of how the benefits exceed the risks but the fact these are closer than they are for example in people in their 505, 60s, 705, that for example in people in their 505, 605, 705, that it is communicated fairly and properly to children, young people and their parents, so they can make a considered decision. that is very much something we think is important. and that children, young people and their parents, are supported in the decisions they make and there is no stigmatisation of people either for accepting or not accepting vaccination. we do think this is really critical. our colleagues in general practice in paediatrics and child health will work with colleagues in public health to try to help make sure this balance of understanding is presented in an appropriate way that actually makes sense and is compensable by people of different ages about what is going on. so that is our overall advice, that important writer at the end. i would
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now like to turn if i need to dr raine to add some comments... thank ou, cmo. raine to add some comments... thank you. cmo- we — raine to add some comments... thank you. cmo- we have — raine to add some comments... thank you, cmo. we have rigorously - you, cmo. we have rigorously reviewed — you, cmo. we have rigorously reviewed all data on safety, quality and effectiveness of pfizer and moderna for use in young people and children_ moderna for use in young people and children 12 _ moderna for use in young people and children 12 to 15 years old, and this data — children 12 to 15 years old, and this data was also reviewed by the commission on human medicines, its advisory— commission on human medicines, its advisory group on vaccine benefit risks, _ advisory group on vaccine benefit risks, and — advisory group on vaccine benefit risks, and the paediatrics medicines group, _ risks, and the paediatrics medicines grouo, all— risks, and the paediatrics medicines group, all leading experts in their field _ group, all leading experts in their field over— group, all leading experts in their field. 0ver2000 group, all leading experts in their field. over 2000 children were studied. — field. over 2000 children were studied, 2000 aged 12—15 in the trials. _ studied, 2000 aged 12—15 in the trials, immunogenicity studies showed — trials, immunogenicity studies showed similar levels in adolescence as in young _ showed similar levels in adolescence as in young adults, and these results — as in young adults, and these results together with a clinical trial data _ results together with a clinical trial data should have very high of short-term — trial data should have very high of short—term efficacy, consistent with that seen— short—term efficacy, consistent with that seen in— short—term efficacy, consistent with that seen in adults, and in fact there — that seen in adults, and in fact there was— that seen in adults, and in fact there was evidence that the vaccine
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provides— there was evidence that the vaccine provides protection even before the second _ provides protection even before the second dose. these are extremely positive _ second dose. these are extremely positive results. we have continued ourioh_ positive results. we have continued ourioh with — positive results. we have continued ourjob with ongoing proactive monitoring of safety, and i'd like to say— monitoring of safety, and i'd like to say a — monitoring of safety, and i'd like to say a few words about suspected side—effects. you will have seen a report— side—effects. you will have seen a report which comes out every week with the _ report which comes out every week with the latest data, but there has been _ with the latest data, but there has been a _ with the latest data, but there has been a particular interest in reports _ been a particular interest in reports of heart inflammation, myocarditis and pericarditis. these both happen very rarely in the general— both happen very rarely in the general population and ourjob is to continually — general population and ourjob is to continually review the balance of what _ continually review the balance of what we — continually review the balance of what we observe against what we expect _ what we observe against what we expect to — what we observe against what we expect to see. we have undertaken a very thorough review both of the uk and the _ very thorough review both of the uk and the international report as a consistent— and the international report as a consistent pattern. there are sometimes more frequency of cases in young _ sometimes more frequency of cases in young males and after the second dose, _ young males and after the second dose. but — young males and after the second dose, but overall the conclusion of our e>
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period of time with standard treatment. our advice remains the benefits— treatment. our advice remains the benefits outweigh the risks of getting — benefits outweigh the risks of getting vaccinated, and this includes _ getting vaccinated, and this includes those aged 12—15. thank you _ includes those aged 12-15. thank ou. . ~' includes those aged 12-15. thank ou. . ~ , ., includes those aged 12-15. thank ou. ., ., includes those aged 12-15. thank ou. ., ~' ., thank you. thank you. professor lin? thank ou. you. thank you. professor lin? thank you- thank — you. thank you. professor lin? thank you- thank you _ you. thank you. professor lin? thank you. thank you for _ you. thank you. professor lin? thank you. thank you for this _ you. thank you. professor lin? thank you. thank you for this chance - you. thank you. professor lin? thank you. thank you for this chance to - you. thank you for this chance to explain _ you. thank you for this chance to explain where _ you. thank you for this chance to explain where we _ you. thank you for this chance to explain where we are _ you. thank you for this chance to explain where we are out. - you. thank you for this chance to explain where we are out. you i you. thank you for this chance to. explain where we are out. you will remember— explain where we are out. you will remember it— explain where we are out. you will remember it was— explain where we are out. you will remember it was not— explain where we are out. you will remember it was not that - explain where we are out. you will remember it was not that long - explain where we are out. you willj remember it was not that long ago explain where we are out. you will - remember it was not that long ago we provided _ remember it was not that long ago we provided advice — remember it was not that long ago we provided advice from _ remember it was not that long ago we provided advice from mhra _ remember it was not that long ago we provided advice from mhra regardingj provided advice from mhra regarding 12 to 15—year—olds, _ provided advice from mhra regarding 12 to 15—year—olds, and _ provided advice from mhra regarding 12 to 15—year—olds, and in— 12 to 15—year—olds, and in particular— 12 to 15—year—olds, and in particular regarding - 12 to 15—year—olds, and in particular regarding 12 - 12 to 15—year—olds, and in particular regarding 12 to| particular regarding 12 to 15—year—olds_ particular regarding 12 to 15—year—olds and - particular regarding 12 to 15—year—olds and i- particular regarding 12 to . 15—year—olds and i couldn't particular regarding 12 to - 15—year—olds and i couldn't have underlying — 15—year—olds and i couldn't have underlying health _ 15—year—olds and i couldn't have underlying health conditions - 15—year—olds and i couldn't havei underlying health conditions that put them — underlying health conditions that put them at _ underlying health conditions that put them at risk, _ underlying health conditions that put them at risk, and _ underlying health conditions that put them at risk, and we - underlying health conditions that. put them at risk, and we concluded there _ put them at risk, and we concluded there was— put them at risk, and we concluded there was overall— put them at risk, and we concluded there was overall marginal- put them at risk, and we concluded there was overall marginal benefitl there was overall marginal benefit from vaccination. _ there was overall marginal benefit from vaccination. we _ there was overall marginal benefit from vaccination. we felt - there was overall marginal benefit from vaccination. we felt that - there was overall marginal benefitj from vaccination. we felt that that marginal— from vaccination. we felt that that marginal benefit— from vaccination. we felt that that marginal benefit was _ from vaccination. we felt that that marginal benefit was not - from vaccination. we felt that thatj marginal benefit was not sufficient to advise _ marginal benefit was not sufficient to advise universal _ marginal benefit was not sufficient to advise universal offer _ marginal benefit was not sufficient to advise universal offer of - to advise universal offer of vaccination _ to advise universal offer of vaccination. i— to advise universal offer of vaccination. i also - to advise universal offer of vaccination. i also want - to advise universal offer of vaccination. i also want to| to advise universal offer of - vaccination. i also want to stress today— vaccination. i also want to stress today that — vaccination. i also want to stress today that jcvi _ vaccination. i also want to stress today that jcvi obviously- vaccination. i also want to stress i today that jcvi obviously recognises the large _ today that jcvi obviously recognises the large impact _ today that jcvi obviously recognises the large impact the _ today that jcvi obviously recognises the large impact the pandemic- today that jcvi obviously recognises the large impact the pandemic has. the large impact the pandemic has had on _ the large impact the pandemic has had on our— the large impact the pandemic has had on our children, _ the large impact the pandemic has had on our children, and _ the large impact the pandemic has had on our children, and so- the large impact the pandemic has had on our children, and so this i the large impact the pandemic has had on our children, and so this is| had on our children, and so this is not simply— had on our children, and so this is not simply because _ had on our children, and so this is not simply because of— had on our children, and so this is not simply because of direct - not simply because of direct infection— not simply because of direct infection or— not simply because of direct infection or illness - not simply because of direct infection or illness on - not simply because of direct l infection or illness on children not simply because of direct - infection or illness on children but because _ infection or illness on children but because of— infection or illness on children but because of the _ infection or illness on children but because of the many— infection or illness on children but because of the many other - infection or illness on children but
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because of the many other factors involved _ because of the many other factors involved in— because of the many other factors involved in a — because of the many other factors involved in a pandemic, _ because of the many other factors involved in a pandemic, not - because of the many other factors involved in a pandemic, not leastl involved in a pandemic, not least social— involved in a pandemic, not least social isolation. _ involved in a pandemic, not least social isolation. missing - involved in a pandemic, not least social isolation. missing school. involved in a pandemic, not least l social isolation. missing school and being _ social isolation. missing school and being off _ social isolation. missing school and being off school _ social isolation. missing school and being off school has _ social isolation. missing school and being off school has had _ social isolation. missing school and being off school has had a - being off school has had a particularly _ being off school has had a particularly profound - being off school has had a l particularly profound impact being off school has had a - particularly profound impact on our children _ particularly profound impact on our children this— particularly profound impact on our children. this is— particularly profound impact on our children. this is an _ particularly profound impact on our children. this is an impact - particularly profound impact on our children. this is an impact not - particularly profound impact on our children. this is an impact notjustl children. this is an impact notjust on educational— children. this is an impact notjust on educational attainment - children. this is an impact notjust on educational attainment but - children. this is an impact notjust| on educational attainment but also on educational attainment but also on mental— on educational attainment but also on mental health _ on educational attainment but also on mental health and _ on educational attainment but also on mental health and all— on educational attainment but also on mental health and all the - on educational attainment but also on mental health and all the other| on mental health and all the other learning _ on mental health and all the other learning that — on mental health and all the other learning that comes _ on mental health and all the other learning that comes from - on mental health and all the other learning that comes from sociallyl learning that comes from socially interacting — learning that comes from socially interacting with _ learning that comes from socially interacting with our— learning that comes from socially interacting with our peers - learning that comes from socially interacting with our peers and - interacting with our peers and colleagues, _ interacting with our peers and colleagues, and _ interacting with our peers and colleagues, and teachers - interacting with our peers and colleagues, and teachers as l interacting with our peers and - colleagues, and teachers as well. so an important— colleagues, and teachers as well. so an important question _ colleagues, and teachers as well. so an important question arises, - colleagues, and teachers as well. so an important question arises, to- an important question arises, to ask, _ an important question arises, to ask, to — an important question arises, to ask, to what _ an important question arises, to ask, to what degree _ an important question arises, to ask, to what degree does- an important question arises, to- ask, to what degree does vaccination reduce _ ask, to what degree does vaccination reduce time — ask, to what degree does vaccination reduce time off— ask, to what degree does vaccination reduce time off school— ask, to what degree does vaccination reduce time off school for— ask, to what degree does vaccination reduce time off school for our- reduce time off school for our children? _ reduce time off school for our children? the _ reduce time off school for our children? the answer- reduce time off school for our children? the answer to - reduce time off school for our children? the answer to thati children? the answer to that question— children? the answer to that question is— children? the answer to that question is influenced - children? the answer to that question is influenced by. children? the answer to that . question is influenced by many things— question is influenced by many things and _ question is influenced by many things and it's _ question is influenced by many things and it's particularly - things and it's particularly influenced _ things and it's particularly influenced by— things and it's particularly influenced by the - things and it's particularly influenced by the policies| things and it's particularly - influenced by the policies around school _ influenced by the policies around school isolation _ influenced by the policies around school isolation measures, - influenced by the policies around | school isolation measures, school closures _ school isolation measures, school closures and — school isolation measures, school closures and school— school isolation measures, school closures and school infection - closures and school infection control— closures and school infection control measures, _ closures and school infection control measures, just - closures and school infection control measures, just as . closures and school infection - control measures, just as examples. those _ control measures, just as examples. those things — control measures, just as examples. those things are _ control measures, just as examples. those things are outside _ control measures, just as examples. those things are outside the - control measures, just as examples. those things are outside the remit . those things are outside the remit ofjcvi, _ those things are outside the remit ofjcvi, but— those things are outside the remit ofjcvi, but they— those things are outside the remit ofjcvi, but they are _ those things are outside the remit ofjcvi, but they are important. it| ofjcvi, but they are important. it was because _ ofjcvi, but they are important. it was because of— ofjcvi, but they are important. it was because of that _ ofjcvi, but they are important. it was because of that that -
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ofjcvi, but they are important. it was because of that that when - ofjcvi, but they are important. it was because of that that when we .ave was because of that that when we gave our— was because of that that when we gave our advice _ was because of that that when we gave our advice to _ was because of that that when we gave our advice to ministers - was because of that that when we gave our advice to ministers we . gave our advice to ministers we highlighted _ gave our advice to ministers we highlighted to _ gave our advice to ministers we highlighted to ministers - gave our advice to ministers we highlighted to ministers that. gave our advice to ministers we i highlighted to ministers that there are other— highlighted to ministers that there are other factors— highlighted to ministers that there are other factors that _ highlighted to ministers that there are other factors that are - highlighted to ministers that there are other factors that are worth i are other factors that are worth considering _ are other factors that are worth considering and _ are other factors that are worth considering and suggested - are other factors that are worth considering and suggested to l considering and suggested to ministers _ considering and suggested to ministers that— considering and suggested to ministers that they _ considering and suggested to ministers that they could, - considering and suggested to ministers that they could, if. considering and suggested to - ministers that they could, if they wish _ ministers that they could, if they wish to, — ministers that they could, if they wish to, ask— ministers that they could, if they wish to, ask the _ ministers that they could, if they wish to, ask the cmos _ ministers that they could, if they wish to, ask the cmos to - ministers that they could, if they wish to, ask the cmos to assess| ministers that they could, if they i wish to, ask the cmos to assess the impact _ wish to, ask the cmos to assess the impact of— wish to, ask the cmos to assess the impact of vaccination _ wish to, ask the cmos to assess the impact of vaccination on _ wish to, ask the cmos to assess the impact of vaccination on these - wish to, ask the cmos to assess the impact of vaccination on these other factors _ impact of vaccination on these other factors. therefore _ impact of vaccination on these other factors. therefore today— impact of vaccination on these other factors. therefore today that - impact of vaccination on these other factors. therefore today that the - factors. therefore today that the factors. therefore today that the fact -- _ factors. therefore today that the fact -- the — factors. therefore today that the fact —— the fact _ factors. therefore today that the fact —— the fact that _ factors. therefore today that the fact —— the fact that the - factors. therefore today that the fact —— the fact that the cmos i factors. therefore today that the . fact —— the fact that the cmos have done _ fact —— the fact that the cmos have done this— fact —— the fact that the cmos have done this assessment _ fact —— the fact that the cmos have done this assessment and - fact —— the fact that the cmos have done this assessment and review. fact —— the fact that the cmos havej done this assessment and review is good _ done this assessment and review is good news — done this assessment and review is good news for— done this assessment and review is good news for everybody, - done this assessment and review is good news for everybody, becausel good news for everybody, because then the _ good news for everybody, because then the wider— good news for everybody, because then the wider impact _ good news for everybody, because then the wider impact of— good news for everybody, because. then the wider impact of vaccination have been— then the wider impact of vaccination have been examined, _ then the wider impact of vaccination have been examined, and _ then the wider impact of vaccination have been examined, and i- then the wider impact of vaccination have been examined, and i want - then the wider impact of vaccination have been examined, and i want to| have been examined, and i want to stress _ have been examined, and i want to stress that— have been examined, and i want to stress that this _ have been examined, and i want to stress that this is _ have been examined, and i want to stress that this is by _ have been examined, and i want to stress that this is by no _ have been examined, and i want to stress that this is by no means - stress that this is by no means means— stress that this is by no means means there _ stress that this is by no means means there is _ stress that this is by no means means there is any _ stress that this is by no means means there is any conflict - stress that this is by no means - means there is any conflict between the advice _ means there is any conflict between the advice provided _ means there is any conflict between the advice provided by— means there is any conflict between the advice provided byjcvi - means there is any conflict between the advice provided byjcvi and - means there is any conflict between the advice provided byjcvi and the i the advice provided byjcvi and the advice _ the advice provided byjcvi and the advice provided _ the advice provided byjcvi and the advice provided by— the advice provided byjcvi and the advice provided by the _ the advice provided byjcvi and the advice provided by the cmos - the advice provided byjcvi and the advice provided by the cmos to - the advice provided byjcvi and the j advice provided by the cmos to the secretary— advice provided by the cmos to the secretary of — advice provided by the cmos to the secretary of state. _ advice provided by the cmos to the secretary of state. thanks, - advice provided by the cmos to the secretary of state. thanks, chris. i secretary of state. thanks, chris. thanks _ secretary of state. thanks, chris. thanks. before _ secretary of state. thanks, chris. thanks. before i— secretary of state. thanks, chris. thanks. before i turned _ secretary of state. thanks, chris. thanks. before i turned to - secretary of state. thanks, chris. thanks. before i turned to my. secretary of state. thanks, chris. i thanks. before i turned to my cmo colleagues, the final advice we give to ministers with the four chief medical officers, we were very fortunate to bejoined by medical officers, we were very fortunate to be joined by the deputy chief medical officers as well and the chief scientific adviser is of
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health and social care, and professor lin joined us for all of the discussions until we came to the point of making the decision, to make sure we were completely in step was cape —— withjcvi advice, but the final decision was of course made by the cmo about what to advise ministers. i will turn first to dr gregor smith, cmo for scotland. gregor... gregor smith, cmo for scotland. greuor... . ., gregor smith, cmo for scotland. greuor... . ~ i. gregor smith, cmo for scotland. greuor... . ,, ,, , ~ gregor... thank you, chris. ithink ou have gregor... thank you, chris. ithink you have outlined _ gregor... thank you, chris. ithink you have outlined very _ gregor... thank you, chris. ithink you have outlined very succinctly i you have outlined very succinctly the very complex considerations we had as we discuss the approach to this advice we have an estimate given to ministers. there are a couple of points i would want to draw out, first to emphasise that as the cmo of scotland i am completely instead and associate myself with all the remarks he made in the preamble, but a couple of things i want to try to pick out and in particular it is important to me we emphasise that in providing this advice the considerations we had were limited to the beneficial impact that this would have on the
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12-15 impact that this would have on the 12—15 —year—old age group. this is particularly important when we approach the information we provide to this age group in order that we gain proper informed consent, and thatis gain proper informed consent, and that is maybe something people will touch upon in the questions to follow. but i think rather than take any more time i would just want to emphasise that these considerations, particularly the indirect impact that covid—19 has had on children and young people, are really important to factor into the approach we describe today. thank ou ve approach we describe today. thank you very much- _ approach we describe today. thank you very much. dr _ approach we describe today. thank you very much. dr frank— approach we describe today. thank you very much. dr frank atherton, | you very much. dr frank atherton, cmo for wales. you very much. dr frank atherton, cmo for wales-— you very much. dr frank atherton, cmo for wales. thank you very much, chris. cmo for wales. thank you very much, chris- while — cmo for wales. thank you very much, chris. while agreeing _ cmo for wales. thank you very much, chris. while agreeing with _ chris. while agreeing with absolutely— chris. while agreeing with absolutely everything - chris. while agreeing with absolutely everything you | chris. while agreeing with - absolutely everything you have said today. _ absolutely everything you have said today. there — absolutely everything you have said today. there is _ absolutely everything you have said today, there is only— absolutely everything you have said today, there is only one _ absolutely everything you have said today, there is only one thing - absolutely everything you have said today, there is only one thing i- today, there is only one thing i would — today, there is only one thing i would like _ today, there is only one thing i would like to _ today, there is only one thing i would like to add, _ today, there is only one thing i would like to add, which - today, there is only one thing i would like to add, which is- today, there is only one thing i| would like to add, which is that today, there is only one thing i. would like to add, which is that in our deliberations— would like to add, which is that in our deliberations we _ would like to add, which is that in our deliberations we have - would like to add, which is that in our deliberations we have been i would like to add, which is that in . our deliberations we have been very clear that _ our deliberations we have been very clear that we — our deliberations we have been very clear that we need _ our deliberations we have been very clear that we need to _ our deliberations we have been very clear that we need to take - our deliberations we have been very clear that we need to take a - our deliberations we have been very clear that we need to take a look i our deliberations we have been very clear that we need to take a look at| clear that we need to take a look at the broad _ clear that we need to take a look at the broad rights—
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clear that we need to take a look at the broad rights of— clear that we need to take a look at the broad rights of children - clear that we need to take a look at the broad rights of children so - clear that we need to take a look at the broad rights of children so we l the broad rights of children so we have _ the broad rights of children so we have tried — the broad rights of children so we have tried to _ the broad rights of children so we have tried to take _ the broad rights of children so we have tried to take a _ the broad rights of children so we have tried to take a broad - the broad rights of children so we have tried to take a broad rights i have tried to take a broad rights -based — have tried to take a broad rights —based approach— have tried to take a broad rights —based approach to _ have tried to take a broad rights —based approach to that - have tried to take a broad rights —based approach to that and - have tried to take a broad rightsl —based approach to that and that have tried to take a broad rights i —based approach to that and that is particularly — —based approach to that and that is particularly important _ —based approach to that and that is particularly important in _ —based approach to that and that is particularly important in wales - particularly important in wales where — particularly important in wales where we _ particularly important in wales where we have _ particularly important in wales where we have specific- particularly important in wales i where we have specific legislation for well— where we have specific legislation for well being _ where we have specific legislation for well being of— where we have specific legislation for well being of the _ where we have specific legislation for well being of the younger- for well being of the younger generation. _ for well being of the younger generation, that _ for well being of the younger generation, that act, - for well being of the younger generation, that act, which i for well being of the younger. generation, that act, which asks ministers — generation, that act, which asks ministers to— generation, that act, which asks ministers to bear— generation, that act, which asks ministers to bear the _ generation, that act, which asks ministers to bear the question l generation, that act, which asks| ministers to bear the question of human— ministers to bear the question of human rights— ministers to bear the question of human rights and _ ministers to bear the question of human rights and rights - ministers to bear the question of human rights and rights of- ministers to bear the question of. human rights and rights of children and young — human rights and rights of children and young people _ human rights and rights of children and young people very— human rights and rights of children and young people very firmly - human rights and rights of children and young people very firmly in - and young people very firmly in decision— and young people very firmly in decision so— and young people very firmly in decision so our— and young people very firmly in decision so our decisions - and young people very firmly in decision so our decisions are i and young people very firmly in l decision so our decisions are very much _ decision so our decisions are very much rooted _ decision so our decisions are very much rooted in _ decision so our decisions are very much rooted in the _ decision so our decisions are very much rooted in the rights - decision so our decisions are very much rooted in the rights of- much rooted in the rights of children— much rooted in the rights of children and _ much rooted in the rights of children and young - much rooted in the rights of children and young people. i much rooted in the rights of- children and young people. one thing to add. _ children and young people. one thing to add. maybe. — children and young people. one thing to add. maybe. we _ children and young people. one thing to add, maybe, we will— children and young people. one thing to add, maybe, we will need - children and young people. one thing to add, maybe, we will need to - children and young people. one thing to add, maybe, we will need to be i to add, maybe, we will need to be very clear— to add, maybe, we will need to be very clear in — to add, maybe, we will need to be very clear in our— to add, maybe, we will need to be very clear in our communication i to add, maybe, we will need to be . very clear in our communication with young _ very clear in our communication with young people. — very clear in our communication with young people. and _ very clear in our communication with young people. and we _ very clear in our communication with young people, and we have - very clear in our communication with . young people, and we have recognised that. young people, and we have recognised that so _ young people, and we have recognised that so my— young people, and we have recognised that. so my message _ young people, and we have recognised that. so my message to— young people, and we have recognised that. so my message to the _ young people, and we have recognised that. so my message to the young - that. so my message to the young people _ that. so my message to the young people of— that. so my message to the young people of wales _ that. so my message to the young people of wales will _ that. so my message to the young people of wales will be _ that. so my message to the young people of wales will be that - that. so my message to the young people of wales will be that your i people of wales will be that your cmos— people of wales will be that your cmos are — people of wales will be that your cmos are recommending - people of wales will be that your cmos are recommending that. people of wales will be that yourl cmos are recommending that you should _ cmos are recommending that you should be — cmos are recommending that you should be offered _ cmos are recommending that you should be offered this _ cmos are recommending that you should be offered this vaccine, i cmos are recommending that you i should be offered this vaccine, just as your— should be offered this vaccine, just as your parents. _ should be offered this vaccine, just as your parents, relatives - should be offered this vaccine, just as your parents, relatives and - should be offered this vaccine, just as your parents, relatives and yourj as your parents, relatives and your older— as your parents, relatives and your older relatives _ as your parents, relatives and your older relatives have _ as your parents, relatives and your older relatives have been, - as your parents, relatives and your older relatives have been, that - older relatives have been, that there _ older relatives have been, that there are — older relatives have been, that there are benefits _ older relatives have been, that there are benefits to _ older relatives have been, that there are benefits to you - older relatives have been, that there are benefits to you bothl older relatives have been, that. there are benefits to you both in terms _ there are benefits to you both in terms of — there are benefits to you both in terms of your— there are benefits to you both in terms of your health _ there are benefits to you both in terms of your health and - there are benefits to you both in terms of your health and your. terms of your health and your education _ terms of your health and your education in _ terms of your health and your education in having _ terms of your health and your education in having the - terms of your health and your- education in having the vaccination a. but— education in having the vaccination a. but ultimately— education in having the vaccination a, but ultimately the _ education in having the vaccination a, but ultimately the choice - education in having the vaccination a, but ultimately the choice is- education in having the vaccination a, but ultimately the choice is forl a, but ultimately the choice is for you and _ a, but ultimately the choice is for you and your— a, but ultimately the choice is for you and your parents _ a, but ultimately the choice is for you and your parents and - a, but ultimately the choice is for you and your parents and it - a, but ultimately the choice is for you and your parents and it is- a, but ultimately the choice is for you and your parents and it is for| you and your parents and it is for you and your parents and it is for you to _ you and your parents and it is for you to address _ you and your parents and it is for you to address might _ you and your parents and it is for you to address might have - you and your parents and it is for you to address might have a - you to address might have a conversation _ you to address might have a conversation with— you to address might have a conversation with your- you to address might have a . conversation with your parents you to address might have a - conversation with your parents —— having _ conversation with your parents —— having the — conversation with your parents —— having the vaccination, _ conversation with your parents —— having the vaccination, but - having the vaccination, but ultimately _ having the vaccination, but ultimately. with _ having the vaccination, but ultimately. with your- having the vaccination, but . ultimately. with your parents having the vaccination, but - ultimately. with your parents and guardians — ultimately. with your parents and guardians on _ ultimately. with your parents and guardians on these _ ultimately. with your parents and guardians on these issues. - ultimately. with your parents and guardians on these issues. thank| guardians on these issues. thank you _ guardians on these issues. thank ou. . ~' guardians on these issues. thank
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ou. . ~ , ., guardians on these issues. thank ou. ., ~' , ., ., guardians on these issues. thank ou. ., ., a ., guardians on these issues. thank you. thank you. to michael mcbride, the (mo you. thank you. to michael mcbride, the cmo for — you. thank you. to michael mcbride, the cmo for northern _ you. thank you. to michael mcbride, the cmo for northern ireland. - the cmo for northern ireland. colleagues, chris, thank you very much _ colleagues, chris, thank you very much indeed. just to agree that you have provided a very accurate summary— have provided a very accurate summary of our recommendations to ministers _ summary of our recommendations to ministers i_ summary of our recommendations to ministers. i would summary of our recommendations to ministers. iwould be recommending to parents— ministers. iwould be recommending to parents and children in northern ireland _ to parents and children in northern ireland that they avail of the opportunity of the vaccine. our children— opportunity of the vaccine. our children have suffered very significantly as a result of the pandemic in terms of disruption to their education and, like chris and gregor. _ their education and, like chris and gregor. i— their education and, like chris and gregor, i would wish to ensure and we will— gregor, i would wish to ensure and we will work— gregor, i would wish to ensure and we will work with the at the royal college _ we will work with the at the royal college of child's health and other colleges— college of child's health and other colleges to make sure the information and advice is there so children— information and advice is there so children and parents can make an informed — children and parents can make an informed decision.— children and parents can make an informed decision. thanks very much indeed. informed decision. thanks very much indeed- that — informed decision. thanks very much indeed. that sort _ informed decision. thanks very much indeed. that sort of _ informed decision. thanks very much indeed. that sort of concludes - informed decision. thanks very much indeed. that sort of concludes are i indeed. that sort of concludes are opening remarks. very happy to take questions of course from you, i think the first one will be from fergus walsh, bbc.— think the first one will be from fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very much. fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very much- lsn't — fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very much. isn't there _ fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very much. isn't there a _
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fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very much. isn't there a danger- fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very much. isn't there a danger that - fergus walsh, bbc. thank you very i much. isn't there a danger that many parents _ much. isn't there a danger that many parents and _ much. isn't there a danger that many parents and indeed _ much. isn't there a danger that many parents and indeed children - much. isn't there a danger that many parents and indeed children are - parents and indeed children are going _ parents and indeed children are going to — parents and indeed children are going to be _ parents and indeed children are going to be left _ parents and indeed children are going to be left confused - parents and indeed children are going to be left confused after. parents and indeed children are i going to be left confused after the w going to be left confused after the vai didn't — going to be left confused after the jcvi didn't recommend _ going to be left confused after the jcvi didn't recommend vaccines i going to be left confused after thei jcvi didn't recommend vaccines for this age _ jcvi didn't recommend vaccines for this age group— jcvi didn't recommend vaccines for this age group and _ jcvi didn't recommend vaccines for this age group and now _ jcvi didn't recommend vaccines for this age group and now you - jcvi didn't recommend vaccines for this age group and now you are? l this age group and now you are? thank— this age group and now you are? thank you — this age group and now you are? thank you i_ this age group and now you are? thank you. i mean, _ this age group and now you are? thank you. i mean, that- this age group and now you are? thank you. i mean, that is- this age group and now you are? thank you. i mean, that is a - this age group and now you are? thank you. i mean, that is a key| thank you. i mean, that is a key question, and i think that our view, and this is a professional view, so this is the view i would say of the great majority of doctors and public health professionals is that these two are not in conflict. whatjcvi said is there is a marginal advantage but by their assessment that was not sufficient by the ordinary standards to recommend it and quite appropriately they kept to their independent view. they suggested further things and what we have done is added in some wider considerations, a5 have done is added in some wider considerations, asjcvi suggested, considerations, a5 jcvi suggested, and, considerations, asjcvi suggested, and, you know, i don't think in our view, certainly a5 and, you know, i don't think in our view, certainly as chief medical officers, and professor lin may want to comment as the chair ofjcvi, we do not see a conflict between these. in medicine you have to take factors
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into account, some of which are very direct and some of which are broader, and that is a pretty standard way of approaching risk and benefit, so we would see this is not in conflict. jcvi, marginal benefit, and then an additional benefit and therefore our recommendation. is therefore our recommendation. is there a question you want to add to that? i there a question you want to add to that? ., �* ., ., ., , . that? i don't want to add very much, exce -t to that? i don't want to add very much, except to say — that? i don't want to add very much, except to say we _ that? i don't want to add very much, except to say we take _ that? i don't want to add very much, except to say we take a _ that? i don't want to add very much, except to say we take a health - except to say we take a health perspective _ except to say we take a health perspective and _ except to say we take a health perspective and offer - except to say we take a health - perspective and offer independent advice _ perspective and offer independent advice on — perspective and offer independent advice on that. _ perspective and offer independent advice on that. we _ perspective and offer independent advice on that. we have _ perspective and offer independentl advice on that. we have recognised where _ advice on that. we have recognised where our— advice on that. we have recognised where our remit _ advice on that. we have recognised where our remit lies— advice on that. we have recognised where our remit lies and _ advice on that. we have recognised where our remit lies and it - advice on that. we have recognised where our remit lies and it is - where our remit lies and it is important _ where our remit lies and it is important other— where our remit lies and it is important other people - where our remit lies and it is important other people take| where our remit lies and it is l important other people take of where our remit lies and it is - important other people take of you and offer— important other people take of you and offer what _ important other people take of you and offer what we _ important other people take of you and offer what we have _ important other people take of you and offer what we have called - and offer what we have called supplementary— and offer what we have called supplementary advice - and offer what we have called supplementary advice on - and offer what we have called supplementary advice on the i and offer what we have called - supplementary advice on the same issue _ supplementary advice on the same issue. ., i. supplementary advice on the same issue. ., ., ., ., ., issue. thanks. do you want to follow u - ? issue. thanks. do you want to follow u? we issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have — issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have been _ issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have been in _ issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have been in a _ issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have been in a limbo - issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have been in a limbo of- issue. thanks. do you want to follow up? we have been in a limbo of ten l up? we have been in a limbo of ten da s and up? we have been in a limbo of ten days and some _ up? we have been in a limbo of ten days and some people, _ up? we have been in a limbo of ten days and some people, yes, - up? we have been in a limbo of ten days and some people, yes, you . up? we have been in a limbo of ten l days and some people, yes, you have set out very clearly what each of these groups have done, but for the public would it not have been better that the jcvi had public would it not have been better that thejcvi had come to you and said, why don't you have a look at the wider impacts, then you had made one announcement, rather than
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leaving this period of ten days? well, we were very keen to make sure that our advice was properly based on not only our own additional reading on top of whatjcvi had done, but also consulting very widely across the medical profession, so the first thing is the reason it took ten days is that is... that is pretty fast, actually, and we have consulted pretty widely on this, and we wanted to do this properly, we wanted to give advice to ministers, and the general public based on that. well they might be ten days i think is about as fast as we could reasonably have done it and keep it proper. in terms ofjcvi, i completely agree with the chair of jcvi that it is very important people stick to what they are good at and don't try and bring in novelties. jcvi give a clear view and we followed on from that clear view. i think from our point of view, and i am kind of seeing acquiescence from my colleagues on the screen, you know, we think what we are doing is very much in line withjcvi. some processes take
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longer than others and this is a more complicated area therefore it has taken us longer both injcvi and among the cm05 than some of the other decisions. emily morgan, itv. thanks. it follows on from fergus's question _ thanks. it follows on from fergus's question. given most parents put the health— question. given most parents put the health of— question. given most parents put the health of their children above anything else, how are you and your colleagues _ anything else, how are you and your colleagues and doctors and nurses on the ground _ colleagues and doctors and nurses on the ground going to convince parents to vaccinate — the ground going to convince parents to vaccinate their children, given they now— to vaccinate their children, given they now know it only offers marginal— they now know it only offers marginal health benefits? haven't you left _ marginal health benefits? haven't you left it — marginal health benefits? haven't you left it simply too late to persuade them of that? i�*m you left it simply too late to persuade them of that? i'm actually auoin to, persuade them of that? i'm actually going to. if — persuade them of that? i'm actually going to. if i — persuade them of that? i'm actually going to. if i may. _ persuade them of that? i'm actually going to, if i may, turn _ persuade them of that? i'm actually going to, if i may, turn first - persuade them of that? i'm actually going to, if i may, turn first of - going to, if i may, turn first of all to gregor, doctor smith in scotland, because he was a practising gp and very much is used to these kind of conversations, and maybe sir michael mcbride in northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris. i northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris- i am — northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris- i am happy _ northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris. i am happy to _ northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris. i am happy to lay _ northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris. i am happy to lay out - northern ireland. gregor? thanks, chris. i am happy to lay out the - chris. i am happy to lay out the process — chris. i am happy to lay out the process. informed consent in this process— process. informed consent in this process is— process. informed consent in this process is really important, particularly when there is, as you
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say. _ particularly when there is, as you say. a _ particularly when there is, as you say, a marginal benefit, but we shouldn't— say, a marginal benefit, but we shouldn't mistake that kind of marginal— shouldn't mistake that kind of marginal benefit for no benefit at all. marginal benefit for no benefit at all that — marginal benefit for no benefit at all that is — marginal benefit for no benefit at all. that is the first really important point in all of this. both the jcvi _ important point in all of this. both the jcvi process and the process subsequently employed by the cmos has shown there is benefit both directly — has shown there is benefit both directly and indirectly to being vaccinated over being unvaccinated. so that _ vaccinated over being unvaccinated. so that is _ vaccinated over being unvaccinated. so that is the first point. then there — so that is the first point. then there is— so that is the first point. then there is a _ so that is the first point. then there is a process by which we must then be _ there is a process by which we must then be able to very straightforward language _ then be able to very straightforward language he then be able to very straightforward language be able to sit down with children— language be able to sit down with children and their parents and be able to— children and their parents and be able to describe to them exactly the nature _ able to describe to them exactly the nature of— able to describe to them exactly the nature of that advantage in becoming vaccinated. _ nature of that advantage in becoming vaccinated, and to do that we will work— vaccinated, and to do that we will work with— vaccinated, and to do that we will work with various royal colleges including — work with various royal colleges including that of the paediatrics and child — including that of the paediatrics and child health and general practitioners, people who are used to consenting in this type of scenario. _ to consenting in this type of scenario, to be able to explain in a very child — scenario, to be able to explain in a very child friendly terms, exactly the advantages people are likely to
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derive _ the advantages people are likely to derive from proceeding with vaccination. and that is something which _ vaccination. and that is something which gps — vaccination. and that is something which gps across the country are used _ which gps across the country are used to— which gps across the country are used to doing on a regular basis. whenever— used to doing on a regular basis. whenever we speak to patients of any a-e whenever we speak to patients of any age in _ whenever we speak to patients of any age in relation to the benefits that any intervention will benefit from. there _ any intervention will benefit from. there are — any intervention will benefit from. there are certain considerations of course _ there are certain considerations of course when you are dealing with a child. _ course when you are dealing with a child, particularly in this age group — child, particularly in this age group of— child, particularly in this age group of 12—15 that need to be taken into account — group of 12—15 that need to be taken into account with this, but making sure we _ into account with this, but making sure we have the materials to be able to _ sure we have the materials to be able to support that decision making in all aspects of society will be a really _ in all aspects of society will be a really important next stage if ministers decide to give the with this vaccination programme. thank ou. this vaccination programme. thank you- michael? _ this vaccination programme. thank you. michael? thanks, _ this vaccination programme. thank you. michael? thanks, chris, - this vaccination programme. thank i you. michael? thanks, chris, gregor. yes, as a you. michael? thanks, chris, gregor. yes. as a parent _ you. michael? thanks, chris, gregor. yes, as a parent we _ you. michael? thanks, chris, gregor. yes, as a parent we all _ you. michael? thanks, chris, gregor. yes, as a parent we all want - you. michael? thanks, chris, gregor. yes, as a parent we all want the - yes, as a parent we all want the very— yes, as a parent we all want the very best — yes, as a parent we all want the very best for _ yes, as a parent we all want the very best for our— yes, as a parent we all want the very best for our children, - yes, as a parent we all want the very best for our children, and l yes, as a parent we all want the i very best for our children, and just to summarise. _ very best for our children, and just to summarise, both— very best for our children, and just to summarise, both the _ very best for our children, and just to summarise, both the mhra - very best for our children, and justj to summarise, both the mhra and very best for our children, and just - to summarise, both the mhra and jcvi concluded _ to summarise, both the mhra and jcvi concluded there — to summarise, both the mhra and jcvi concluded there was _ to summarise, both the mhra and jcvi concluded there was benefit _
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to summarise, both the mhra and jcvi concluded there was benefit in - concluded there was benefit in vaccinating _ concluded there was benefit in vaccinating children. _ concluded there was benefit in vaccinating children. now, - concluded there was benefit in| vaccinating children. now, jcvi concluded there was benefit in - vaccinating children. now, jcvi did say the _ vaccinating children. now, jcvi did say the clinical— vaccinating children. now, jcvi did say the clinical benefit _ vaccinating children. now, jcvi did say the clinical benefit in - vaccinating children. now, jcvi did say the clinical benefit in terms . vaccinating children. now, jcvi did say the clinical benefit in terms of| say the clinical benefit in terms of health— say the clinical benefit in terms of health terms _ say the clinical benefit in terms of health terms is _ say the clinical benefit in terms of health terms is that _ say the clinical benefit in terms of health terms is that narrow- say the clinical benefit in terms ofi health terms is that narrow clinical benefit. _ health terms is that narrow clinical benefit. it— health terms is that narrow clinical benefit. it was— health terms is that narrow clinical benefit, it was small _ health terms is that narrow clinical benefit, it was small and - health terms is that narrow clinical benefit, it was small and not - health terms is that narrow clinical benefit, it was small and not large j benefit, it was small and not large enough _ benefit, it was small and not large enough to— benefit, it was small and not large enough to recommend _ benefit, it was small and not large enough to recommend universal. enough to recommend universal vaccination _ enough to recommend universal vaccination. but— enough to recommend universal vaccination. but we _ enough to recommend universal vaccination. but we need - enough to recommend universal vaccination. but we need to - enough to recommend universal- vaccination. but we need to remember that education — vaccination. but we need to remember that education is _ vaccination. but we need to remember that education is very _ vaccination. but we need to remember that education is very important - vaccination. but we need to remember that education is very important in - that education is very important in public— that education is very important in public health — that education is very important in public health terms. _ that education is very important in public health terms. education - that education is very important in public health terms. education is i public health terms. education is vitally— public health terms. education is vitally important— public health terms. education is vitally important for— public health terms. education is vitally important for individual. vitally important for individual children. _ vitally important for individual children, our— vitally important for individual children, our children, - vitally important for individual. children, our children, realising their— children, our children, realising their life — children, our children, realising their life opportunities, - children, our children, realising their life opportunities, for- children, our children, realising| their life opportunities, for their employment _ their life opportunities, for their employment opportunities, - their life opportunities, for theirl employment opportunities, their opportunity— employment opportunities, their opportunity to— employment opportunities, their opportunity to go _ employment opportunities, their opportunity to go on _ employment opportunities, their opportunity to go on in _ employment opportunities, their opportunity to go on in later- employment opportunities, their opportunity to go on in later lifel opportunity to go on in later life in employment. _ opportunity to go on in later life in employment, for— opportunity to go on in later life in employment, for further- opportunity to go on in later life in employment, forfurtherandl in employment, for further and higher— in employment, for further and higher education. _ in employment, for further and higher education. children- in employment, forfurtherand| higher education. children need in employment, for further and - higher education. children need the continuity— higher education. children need the continuity and — higher education. children need the continuity and predictability- higher education. children need the continuity and predictability of- continuity and predictability of being — continuity and predictability of being in— continuity and predictability of being in school— continuity and predictability of being in school for— continuity and predictability of being in school for their- continuity and predictability of- being in school for their emotional health— being in school for their emotional health and — being in school for their emotional health and well—being. _ being in school for their emotional health and well—being. and - health and well—being. and disruption _ health and well—being. and disruption to— health and well—being. and disruption to schooling - health and well—being. and disruption to schooling and | disruption to schooling and education _ disruption to schooling and education has _ disruption to schooling and education has a _ disruption to schooling and education has a very- disruption to schooling and . education has a very negative disruption to schooling and - education has a very negative impact on children's — education has a very negative impact on children's well—being _ education has a very negative impact on children's well—being more - on children's well—being more generally. _ on children's well—being more generally. so— on children's well—being more generally. so i_ on children's well—being more generally, so i would - on children's well—being more generally, so i would suggest| on children's well—being more. generally, so i would suggest a number— generally, so i would suggest a number of— generally, so i would suggest a number of things— generally, so i would suggest a number of things which - generally, so i would suggest aj number of things which parents generally, so i would suggest a - number of things which parents also care very— number of things which parents also care very passionately _ number of things which parents also care very passionately about, - number of things which parents also care very passionately about, and i number of things which parents also| care very passionately about, and as gregor— care very passionately about, and as gregor has _ care very passionately about, and as gregor has said _ care very passionately about, and as gregor has said all— care very passionately about, and as gregor has said all of— care very passionately about, and as gregor has said all of that _ care very passionately about, and as gregor has said all of that will - care very passionately about, and as gregor has said all of that will be - gregor has said all of that will be important. — gregor has said all of that will be important. an— gregor has said all of that will be important, an important- gregor has said all of that will be important, an important part -
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gregor has said all of that will be important, an important part of. gregor has said all of that will be . important, an important part of the consent— important, an important part of the consent process, _ important, an important part of the consent process, the _ important, an important part of the consent process, the discussions. i consent process, the discussions. the parents — consent process, the discussions. the parents will— consent process, the discussions. the parents will want _ consent process, the discussions. the parents will want to - consent process, the discussions. the parents will want to sit - consent process, the discussions. the parents will want to sit downl the parents will want to sit down with their— the parents will want to sit down with their children— the parents will want to sit down with their children and _ the parents will want to sit down with their children and have - the parents will want to sit downl with their children and have those conversations— with their children and have those conversations about _ with their children and have those conversations about the _ with their children and have those conversations about the benefits, | conversations about the benefits, not just _ conversations about the benefits, not just in — conversations about the benefits, notjust in health _ conversations about the benefits, not just in health terms _ conversations about the benefits, notjust in health terms but - conversations about the benefits, notjust in health terms but in - notjust in health terms but in wider— notjust in health terms but in wider health— notjust in health terms but in wider health terms, _ notjust in health terms but in wider health terms, public- notjust in health terms but in . wider health terms, public health terms. _ wider health terms, public health terms. for— wider health terms, public health terms, fortheir_ wider health terms, public health terms, for their life _ wider health terms, public healthl terms, for their life opportunities. let's _ terms, for their life opportunities. let's hear— terms, for their life opportunities. let's hear in — terms, for their life opportunities. let's hear in mind _ terms, for their life opportunities. let's hear in mind again _ terms, for their life opportunities. let's hear in mind again that- terms, for their life opportunities. | let's hear in mind again that those children— let's hear in mind again that those children that — let's hear in mind again that those children that have _ let's hear in mind again that those children that have suffered - let's hear in mind again that those children that have suffered most . children that have suffered most during _ children that have suffered most during this — children that have suffered most during this pandemic— children that have suffered most during this pandemic have - children that have suffered most during this pandemic have been| children that have suffered most - during this pandemic have been those from the _ during this pandemic have been those from the most — during this pandemic have been those from the most socioeconomically - from the most socioeconomically deprived — from the most socioeconomically deprived areas. _ from the most socioeconomically deprived areas, and _ from the most socioeconomically deprived areas, and those - from the most socioeconomically i deprived areas, and those children are the _ deprived areas, and those children are the children _ deprived areas, and those children are the children that _ deprived areas, and those children are the children that will— deprived areas, and those children are the children that will benefit i are the children that will benefit most _ are the children that will benefit most from — are the children that will benefit most from being _ are the children that will benefit most from being in— are the children that will benefit most from being in education. i he professor chris whitty, can i ask ou a he professor chris whitty, can i ask you a question _ he professor chris whitty, can i ask you a question and _ he professor chris whitty, can i ask you a question and also _ he professor chris whitty, can i ask you a question and also a _ he professor chris whitty, can i ask you a question and also a question| you a question and also a question for prof— you a question and also a question for prof wei — you a question and also a question for prof wei shen lim, do you, professor— for prof wei shen lim, do you, professor chris whitty, regret the way this— professor chris whitty, regret the way this is— professor chris whitty, regret the way this is being communicated? it is no _ way this is being communicated? it is no doubt — way this is being communicated? it is no doubt now that yourjob has been _ is no doubt now that yourjob has been made — is no doubt now that yourjob has been made that much more difficult because _ been made that much more difficult because the message is confusing? and prof— because the message is confusing? and prof wei shen lim, do you feel undermined by the cmos and do your colleagues _ undermined by the cmos and do your colleagues on the jcvi agree with what is _ colleagues on the jcvi agree with what is being said today? sol colleagues on the jcvi agree with what is being said today? so i think what is being said today? so i think what we would _ what is being said today? so i think what we would really _ what is being said today? so i think what we would really regret, - what is being said today? so i think
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what we would really regret, and i l what we would really regret, and i want to be really clear about this, is getting the decision wrong. so i am much —— i would much rather this is a slightly more compact process involving several stages at the end of it the medical profession as a whole feels comfortable we have considered all the various angles, and therefore we can communicate that to children and families. some decisions are completely barn door obvious. if you are talking to someone who is 85 and they are choosing not to get vaccinated, the short answer is just get the jab. this is going to have a very high chance of stopping you dying. whereas actually in this situation it is a more difficult one, and i think it is appropriate therefore people have taken longer to get to this and to make sure we weighed up all the different elements to get this right. so i think it is always nicer to be able to package it in a very simple way but it is fundamentally more important to get the decision in a way i think people feel comfortable and is the centre of medical and public health opinion, and then we are here but
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also importantly are the public health care officials around the country can communicate it, as they do day in, day out. much of medicine is about communicating actually quite common to do things in a way thatis quite common to do things in a way that is appropriate to the age and the particular stage in life people are. this is very much normal medical practice. i are. this is very much normal medical practice.— are. this is very much normal medical practice. i would like to stress that _ medical practice. i would like to stress that jcvi _ medical practice. i would like to stress that jcvi is _ medical practice. i would like to stress that jcvi is first - medical practice. i would like to stress that jcvi is first and - stress that jcvi is first and foremost an independent scientific advisory— foremost an independent scientific advisory body, and one of the features — advisory body, and one of the features of this pandemic is that there _ features of this pandemic is that there has— features of this pandemic is that there has been a higher expectation on the _ there has been a higher expectation on the speed at which we express our advice. if— on the speed at which we express our advice. if you — on the speed at which we express our advice, if you will. so i think it was _ advice, if you will. so i think it was entirely appropriate that we offered — was entirely appropriate that we offered the advice of the secretary offered the advice of the secretary of state. _ offered the advice of the secretary of state, and we communicated that advice _ of state, and we communicated that advice to— of state, and we communicated that advice to the public, so people understood where the jcvi stood, in terms _ understood where the jcvi stood, in terms of— understood where the jcvi stood, in terms of the health benefits and what _ terms of the health benefits and what we — terms of the health benefits and what we thought. that is fundamental and really _ what we thought. that is fundamental and really important. when we come
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to the _ and really important. when we come to the question of whether the jcvi then agrees or disagrees with the cmo then agrees or disagrees with the gmo of's — then agrees or disagrees with the cmo of's decision, then that is a slightly— cmo of's decision, then that is a slightly difficult question, because in our— slightly difficult question, because in our initial advice, we have already— in our initial advice, we have already said there are aspects of vaccination that are outside the remit _ vaccination that are outside the remit of— vaccination that are outside the remit of the jcvi, and therefore we haven't_ remit of the jcvi, and therefore we haven't examined the material that the gmo _ haven't examined the material that the cmo ofs have examined incoming to their— the cmo ofs have examined incoming to their decision. so we surely welcome — to their decision. so we surely welcome that the cmos have done this exercise _ welcome that the cmos have done this exercise and made the review and made _ exercise and made the review and made a _ exercise and made the review and made a detailed assessment, but it is not _ made a detailed assessment, but it is not for— made a detailed assessment, but it is not for the jcvi to either agree or disagree with their decision, because — or disagree with their decision, because that is, if you welcome a next _ because that is, if you welcome a next step— because that is, if you welcome a next step along the way. so from that point — next step along the way. so from that point of view, i don't feel undermined in any way. i think we are working — undermined in any way. i think we are working synergistically together, and giving hopefully helpful— together, and giving hopefully helpful advice to ministers in order to make _ helpful advice to ministers in order to make the best decision possible.
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you have _ to make the best decision possible. you have spent much of the last few months _ you have spent much of the last few months encouraging _ you have spent much of the last few months encouraging older— you have spent much of the last few months encouraging older people i you have spent much of the last few months encouraging older people toj months encouraging older people to -et a months encouraging older people to get a vaccine — months encouraging older people to get a vaccine. you _ months encouraging older people to get a vaccine. you stressed - months encouraging older people to get a vaccine. you stressed in- months encouraging older people to get a vaccine. you stressed in your. get a vaccine. you stressed in your opening _ get a vaccine. you stressed in your opening remarks— get a vaccine. you stressed in your opening remarks this _ get a vaccine. you stressed in your opening remarks this was - get a vaccine. you stressed in your opening remarks this was an - get a vaccine. you stressed in your opening remarks this was an offer, so can— opening remarks this was an offer, so can we — opening remarks this was an offer, so can we just _ opening remarks this was an offer, so can we just be _ opening remarks this was an offer, so can we just be clear, _ opening remarks this was an offer, so can we just be clear, is- opening remarks this was an offer, so can we just be clear, is this - opening remarks this was an offer, so can we just be clear, is this an i so can we just be clear, is this an actual— so can we just be clear, is this an actual recommendation- so can we just be clear, is this an actual recommendation that - so can we just be clear, is this an . actual recommendation that children be vaccinated — actual recommendation that children be vaccinated or— actual recommendation that children be vaccinated orjust _ actual recommendation that children be vaccinated orjust an _ actual recommendation that children be vaccinated orjust an offer - actual recommendation that children be vaccinated orjust an offer that. be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have — be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have that _ be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have that right, _ be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have that right, or— be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have that right, or to - be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have that right, or to put - be vaccinated orjust an offer that they have that right, or to put it. they have that right, or to put it another— they have that right, or to put it another way. _ they have that right, or to put it another way, you _ they have that right, or to put it another way, you have - they have that right, or to put it another way, you have just- they have that right, or to put it another way, you have just said| they have that right, or to put it. another way, you have just said if another way, you have just said if an 85-year-old _ another way, you have just said if an 85—year—old came _ another way, you have just said if an 85—year—old came to - another way, you have just said if an 85—year—old came to you - another way, you have just said ifl an 85—year—old came to you would another way, you have just said if- an 85—year—old came to you would say 'ust an 85—year—old came to you would say just get— an 85—year—old came to you would say just get iabbed — an 85—year—old came to you would say just getiabbed if— an 85—year—old came to you would say just get iabbed if a _ an 85—year—old came to you would say just getjabbed. if a parent— an 85—year—old came to you would say just get jabbed. if a parent came - an 85—year—old came to you would say just get jabbed. if a parent came to. just get jabbed. if a parent came to you and _ just get jabbed. if a parent came to you and said — just getjabbed. if a parent came to you and said dr— just getjabbed. if a parent came to you and said dr commissioner- just get jabbed. if a parent came to you and said dr commissioner geti just get jabbed. if a parent came to. you and said dr commissioner get my healthy— you and said dr commissioner get my healthy teenager— you and said dr commissioner get my healthy teenager vaccinated, - you and said dr commissioner get my healthy teenager vaccinated, what . healthy teenager vaccinated, what would _ healthy teenager vaccinated, what would you — healthy teenager vaccinated, what would you say— healthy teenager vaccinated, what would you say to _ healthy teenager vaccinated, what would you say to them? _ healthy teenager vaccinated, what would you say to them? what - healthy teenager vaccinated, what would you say to them?— would you say to them? what we wouldn't be _ would you say to them? what we wouldn't be -- — would you say to them? what we wouldn't be -- we _ would you say to them? what we wouldn't be -- we wouldn't - would you say to them? what we wouldn't be -- we wouldn't be i wouldn't be —— we wouldn't be recommending the universal offer unless we felt benefit exceeded risk, and it does at an individual level, but asjcvi pointed out, because children are so much more lower risk, more marginal than older people where the risk benefit is way over towards getting vaccinated, but has these additional elements, so in a sense what we are not trying to do is say to children you must, must, must, must, but what we are saying is we think on balance the benefits
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both at an individual level and in terms of wider indirect benefits to education and through that to public health are in favour. otherwise we would not be making this recommendation. had jcvi recommended that this was not in favour of vaccination, we would have left it at that. what they did was they did at that. what they did was they did a more nuanced decision, which is what we took on following the suggestion they made that the cm05 should take the next step. there suggestion they made that the cmos should take the next step.— should take the next step. are you sa inc ou should take the next step. are you saying you probably _ should take the next step. are you saying you probably should - should take the next step. are you saying you probably should but - should take the next step. are you saying you probably should but if i saying you probably should but if you don't — saying you probably should but if you don't feel— saying you probably should but if you don't feel like _ saying you probably should but if you don't feel like it, _ saying you probably should but if you don't feel like it, i— saying you probably should but if you don't feel like it, i can - you don't feel like it, i can understand? _ you don't feel like it, i can understand? i— you don't feel like it, i can understand?— you don't feel like it, i can understand? ~ ., ., , understand? i think all of consent is about trying — understand? i think all of consent is about trying to _ understand? i think all of consent is about trying to say _ understand? i think all of consent is about trying to say there - understand? i think all of consent is about trying to say there is - understand? i think all of consent is about trying to say there is a i is about trying to say there is a balance of risk—benefit, and sometimes it is way over in one direction, sometimes it is over in one direction, and sometimes it is over the other way. our view is i think this is over the line, otherwise we wouldn't be making the recommendation, i think in a sense people should take that as that is the reason why we have recommended it to the wider public. the size of the effect is inevitably smaller than in the situation where people in their 405, 505, than in the situation where people in theirltos, 505, 605, are at significantly higher risk of covert,
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but children still do have problems with covid and i think people would recommend people look at the jcvi advice that makes that extremely clear. covid is not a benign disease, even in children. it is much less likely to cause problems than in adults, and particularly in older adults, than in adults, and particularly in olderadults, but than in adults, and particularly in older adults, but there are problems which some children get into, and of course there are wider issues in terms of education. i would like may be to ask frank and michael and greg ward to comment on this, because i think this is a really fundamental question, which i think it is important we all in a sense make a clear view on. frank. important we all in a sense make a clearview on. frank. mt; important we all in a sense make a clear view on. frank.— important we all in a sense make a clear view on. frank. my view would be, it is clear view on. frank. my view would be. it is back _ clear view on. frank. my view would be, it is back to _ clear view on. frank. my view would be, it is back to what _ clear view on. frank. my view would be, it is back to what i _ clear view on. frank. my view would be, it is back to what i would - clear view on. frank. my view would be, it is back to what i would say - be, it is back to what i would say for children — be, it is back to what i would say for children and young people really. — for children and young people really. so _ for children and young people really, so i would be recommending people _ really, so i would be recommending people really think about this very carefully. — people really think about this very carefully, have the discussions in families— carefully, have the discussions in families and come to their decision, but the _ families and come to their decision, but the simple point is that from a health— but the simple point is that from a health benefit and from an education benefit. _ health benefit and from an education benefit. it— health benefit and from an education benefit, it is better to be vaccinated than to be not vaccinated. so i will be recommended
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to children _ vaccinated. so i will be recommended to children and young people here in wales _ to children and young people here in wales. . . . to children and young people here in wales. , ., ., ., .., wales. yes, again, i am recommending this vaccination _ wales. yes, again, i am recommending this vaccination for— wales. yes, again, i am recommending this vaccination for children _ wales. yes, again, i am recommending this vaccination for children and - this vaccination for children and young _ this vaccination for children and young people _ this vaccination for children and young people in _ this vaccination for children and young people in northern- this vaccination for children and . young people in northern ireland, that is— young people in northern ireland, that is our— young people in northern ireland, that is our collective _ young people in northern ireland, that is our collective advice - young people in northern ireland, that is our collective advice to - that is our collective advice to ministers. _ that is our collective advice to ministers, and _ that is our collective advice to ministers, and it— that is our collective advice to ministers, and it is— that is our collective advice to ministers, and it is for- that is our collective advice to . ministers, and it is for ministers to decide — ministers, and it is for ministers to decide there _ ministers, and it is for ministers to decide there are _ ministers, and it is for ministers to decide there are clear- ministers, and it is for ministers. to decide there are clear benefits, both in— to decide there are clear benefits, both in health _ to decide there are clear benefits, both in health terms, _ to decide there are clear benefits, both in health terms, although- to decide there are clear benefits, i both in health terms, although they are small. _ both in health terms, although they are small. at — both in health terms, although they are small, at the _ both in health terms, although they are small, at the individual- both in health terms, although they are small, at the individual level- are small, at the individual level as are small, at the individual level achvi _ are small, at the individual level achvi and — are small, at the individual level asjcvi and others _ are small, at the individual level asjcvi and others have - are small, at the individual level asjcvi and others have said. - asjcvi and others have said. although _ asjcvi and others have said. although there _ asjcvi and others have said. although there are _ asjcvi and others have said. although there are benefits. asjcvi and others have said. - although there are benefits there, it is not— although there are benefits there, it is not always _ although there are benefits there, it is not always a _ although there are benefits there, it is not always a trivial— although there are benefits there, it is not always a trivial disease - it is not always a trivial disease in children. _ it is not always a trivial disease in children, we _ it is not always a trivial disease in children, we know, - it is not always a trivial disease in children, we know, althoughj it is not always a trivial disease . in children, we know, although in the main — in children, we know, although in the main children— in children, we know, although in the main children have _ in children, we know, although in the main children have milder- the main children have milder disease — the main children have milder disease when _ the main children have milder disease when they— the main children have milder disease when they have - the main children have milder- disease when they have symptoms. there _ disease when they have symptoms. there are _ disease when they have symptoms. there are significant _ disease when they have symptoms. there are significant other- disease when they have symptoms. there are significant other benefitsl there are significant other benefits as i there are significant other benefits as l have _ there are significant other benefits as i have indicated _ there are significant other benefits as i have indicated already, - there are significant other benefits as i have indicated already, in- as i have indicated already, in terms — as i have indicated already, in terms of— as i have indicated already, in terms of avoiding _ as i have indicated already, in terms of avoiding educationalj terms of avoiding educational disruption _ terms of avoiding educational disruption and _ terms of avoiding educational disruption and to _ terms of avoiding educational disruption and to the - terms of avoiding educationalj disruption and to the benefits terms of avoiding educational. disruption and to the benefits of children— disruption and to the benefits of children being _ disruption and to the benefits of children being in _ disruption and to the benefits of children being in school. - disruption and to the benefits of children being in school. so- disruption and to the benefits of children being in school. so it i disruption and to the benefits of children being in school. so it is| children being in school. so it is certainly— children being in school. so it is certainly a — children being in school. so it is certainly a recommendation i children being in school. so it is certainly a recommendation to i children being in school. so it is i certainly a recommendation to me children being in school. so it is - certainly a recommendation to me for children— certainly a recommendation to me for children in— certainly a recommendation to me for children in northern _ certainly a recommendation to me for children in northern ireland _ certainly a recommendation to me for children in northern ireland to - certainly a recommendation to me for children in northern ireland to take i children in northern ireland to take up children in northern ireland to take up the _ children in northern ireland to take up the vaccine _ children in northern ireland to take up the vaccine. put _ children in northern ireland to take up the vaccine-— children in northern ireland to take up the vaccine. put very simply, the m rha -- — up the vaccine. put very simply, the m rha -- mhra — up the vaccine. put very simply, the m rha -- mhra and _ up the vaccine. put very simply, the m rha -- mhra and ch _ up the vaccine. put very simply, the
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m rha -- mhra and ch have - up the vaccine. put very simply, the m rha -- mhra and ch have only| m rha —— mhra and jcvi have only found _ m rha —— mhra and jcvi have only found there is a benefit to vaccinating for the direct health benefits — vaccinating for the direct health benefits and the further review we have undertaken has shown there is also indirect benefits as well, which — also indirect benefits as well, which are _ also indirect benefits as well, which are additive and amplify what we have _ which are additive and amplify what we have already discovered from those _ we have already discovered from those previous reviews, and i will be recommending to children in scotland — be recommending to children in scotland that they have this vaccine because _ scotland that they have this vaccine because of— scotland that they have this vaccine because of these benefits that have been shown by this process. thank ou ve been shown by this process. thank you very much. — been shown by this process. thank you very much. lucy _ been shown by this process. thank you very much, lucy fisher, - been shown by this process. thank you very much, lucy fisher, ted i you very much, lucy fisher, ted mcgrath. gray you have set out the need for due process book of this decision not have been taken sooner, given the uk had to wait longer than other countries? are you not concerned that the jcvi declined other countries? are you not concerned that thejcvi declined to give a recommendation for this risks undermining confidence in parents, despite your recommendation today? you are absolutely right that many other countries are employing this, and deploying it with two vaccinations, rather than the one we are recommending universally at this
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stage. jcvi will then take a view as to whether they think the second one is worthwhile. actually, most parents and children and young people would want this to be taken very seriously and people to look at the numbers for them really clearly and come to a recommendation in the way my comics have talked about full stop in a sense, rushing this thing does not seem like the right thing to do for these more difficult decisions, this is something, those of you who listen to press conferences i have been out, i have said repeatedly. this is a more difficult decision in children and young people than it is in older adults, we have all known that, and i think it is important people do it properly and according to the normal ways, as mhra have, jcvi have and we have. so yes, it is about doing it thoroughly and i think we have now done a pretty thorough look at multiple aspects of this. there done a pretty thorough look at multiple aspects of this. are you confident this _ multiple aspects of this. are you confident this will _ multiple aspects of this. are you confident this will help _ multiple aspects of this. are you confident this will help schools i confident this will help schools shotting — confident this will help schools shotting again _ confident this will help schools shotting again in— confident this will help schools shotting again in the _ confident this will help schools shotting again in the winter, i confident this will help schools
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shotting again in the winter, isj shotting again in the winter, is there — shotting again in the winter, is there any— shotting again in the winter, is there any modelling _ shotting again in the winter, is there any modelling in- shotting again in the winter, isj there any modelling in relation shotting again in the winter, is. there any modelling in relation to that? _ there any modelling in relation to that? secondly, _ there any modelling in relation to that? secondly, now— there any modelling in relation to that? secondly, now that - there any modelling in relation to that? secondly, now that kids i there any modelling in relation to| that? secondly, now that kids age there any modelling in relation to i that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going _ that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going to— that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going to get— that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going to get the _ that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going to get the jab, _ that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going to get the jab, is— that? secondly, now that kids age 12 are going to get the jab, is that i are going to get the jab, is that the lowest _ are going to get the jab, is that the lowest age _ are going to get the jab, is that the lowest age range _ are going to get the jab, is that the lowest age range will- are going to get the jab, is that the lowest age range will be i are going to get the jab, is that i the lowest age range will be looking for children. — the lowest age range will be looking for children, or— the lowest age range will be looking for children, or should _ the lowest age range will be looking for children, or should we _ the lowest age range will be looking for children, or should we expect i for children, or should we expect you to _ for children, or should we expect you to look— for children, or should we expect you to look in _ for children, or should we expect you to look in future _ for children, or should we expect you to look in future at _ for children, or should we expect you to look in future at kids i for children, or should we expectl you to look in future at kids under 12 getting — you to look in future at kids under 12 getting the _ you to look in future at kids under 12 getting the jab? _ you to look in future at kids under 12 getting the jab? and _ you to look in future at kids under 12 getting the jab? and also- you to look in future at kids under 12 getting the jab? and also are l you to look in future at kids under. 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried _ 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this — 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this will— 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this will get _ 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this will get in _ 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this will get in the - 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this will get in the way i 12 getting the jab? and also are you worried this will get in the way of i worried this will get in the way of booster_ worried this will get in the way of booster jabs _ worried this will get in the way of boosterjabs for— worried this will get in the way of boosterjabs for older— worried this will get in the way of boosterjabs for older people, . worried this will get in the way of boosterjabs for older people, as| worried this will get in the way of i boosterjabs for older people, as we io boosterjabs for older people, as we go through— boosterjabs for older people, as we go through this _ boosterjabs for older people, as we go through this winter? _ boosterjabs for older people, as we go through this winter? 50 - boosterjabs for older people, as we go through this winter? 50 in - boosterjabs for older people, as we go through this winter?— go through this winter? so in no articular go through this winter? so in no particular order, _ go through this winter? so in no particular order, we _ go through this winter? so in no particular order, we do - go through this winter? so in no particular order, we do not - go through this winter? so in no i particular order, we do not think this is going to interfere with the boosterjabs this is going to interfere with the booster jabs for older this is going to interfere with the boosterjabs for older people. we have plenty of vaccine stock for the relevant vaccines for these, and they have been deployed by different mechanisms, one through a school mechanisms, one through a school mechanism and one more widely, so we are not concerned about that. in terms of are we confident about reducing disruption, the answer is we are confident about reducing disruption. we are also confident this will not eliminate disruption. that is very much central to the way we want to present this information.
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because it reduces the chance a child will get covert, if they had it, probably by 50 or 55%, and it will reduce the chances that a child who then gets covid will pass it on. we expect it will reduce the number of outbreaks in schools as well as a direct effect on people, so it would be very surprising if it did not reduce and probably reduce to a significant extent of the amount of disruption in schools if many children take this up. but we definitely do not think, this is back to a point professor lin made, we do not think this alone is going to be the thing that deals with educational issues and it is really important that policies are kept in place that minimise, or at least policies are not put in place that increased the risk of further disruption will occur. 50 i think it is pretty critical we actually keep those in balance, but our view is that overall we do expect it to reduce but note —— but not eliminate. under12
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reduce but note —— but not eliminate. under 12 we have no plan to re—examine a there are some nations that are doing this, it hasn't even got to the point that it is being considered by mhra, so we are a long way from considering this so let's not rush that one at all. you have both talked about how this decision— you have both talked about how this decision was — you have both talked about how this decision was taken _ you have both talked about how this decision was taken clearly— you have both talked about how this decision was taken clearly on - you have both talked about how this decision was taken clearly on the - decision was taken clearly on the impact _ decision was taken clearly on the impact of— decision was taken clearly on the impact of children _ decision was taken clearly on the impact of children aged - decision was taken clearly on the impact of children aged 12 - decision was taken clearly on the impact of children aged 12 to - decision was taken clearly on the impact of children aged 12 to 15, i impact of children aged 12 to 15, not a _ impact of children aged 12 to 15, not a broader— impact of children aged 12 to 15, not a broader societal— impact of children aged 12 to 15, not a broader societal impact, l impact of children aged 12 to 15, l not a broader societal impact, but do you _ not a broader societal impact, but do you exriect _ not a broader societal impact, but do you expect this _ not a broader societal impact, but do you expect this decision - not a broader societal impact, but do you expect this decision will i do you expect this decision will anyway— do you expect this decision will anyway have _ do you expect this decision will anyway have a _ do you expect this decision will anyway have a broader- do you expect this decision will anyway have a broader societali anyway have a broader societal impact, — anyway have a broader societal impact, and _ anyway have a broader societal impact, and if— anyway have a broader societal impact, and if so _ anyway have a broader societal impact, and if so have - anyway have a broader societal impact, and if so have you - anyway have a broader societall impact, and if so have you done anyway have a broader societal- impact, and if so have you done any modelling _ impact, and if so have you done any modelling oh — impact, and if so have you done any modelling on what _ impact, and if so have you done any modelling on what that _ impact, and if so have you done any modelling on what that might - impact, and if so have you done any modelling on what that might be? l modelling on what that might be? gregor. _ modelling on what that might be? gregor. since _ modelling on what that might be? gregor, since this— modelling on what that might be? gregor, since this was _ modelling on what that might be? gregor, since this was addressed i modelling on what that might be? i gregor, since this was addressed to usjointly? gregor, since this was addressed to us 'ointl ? . , . ., us jointly? thanks, chris. we have confined our— us jointly? thanks, chris. we have confined our review _ us jointly? thanks, chris. we have confined our review at _ us jointly? thanks, chris. we have confined our review at this - us jointly? thanks, chris. we have confined our review at this point i us jointly? thanks, chris. we havei confined our review at this point of time _ confined our review at this point of time of— confined our review at this point of time of considering only the evidence and the benefits in relation _ evidence and the benefits in relation to 12 to 15—year—olds. that is a reatty — relation to 12 to 15—year—olds. that is a really important point of principle, _ is a really important point of principle, in terms of how we have gone _ principle, in terms of how we have done about— principle, in terms of how we have gone about conducting this aspect of it.
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gone about conducting this aspect of it however— gone about conducting this aspect of it. howeverwe gone about conducting this aspect of it. however we know from experience of other— it. however we know from experience of other vaccination programmes that try of other vaccination programmes that by reducing _ of other vaccination programmes that by reducing transmission across age groups— by reducing transmission across age groups that it may have a beneficial impact _ groups that it may have a beneficial impact across those age ranges. but i impact across those age ranges. but iwoutd _ impact across those age ranges. but i would emphasise again those were not part— i would emphasise again those were not part of— i would emphasise again those were not part of the considerations, deliberations or even part of the discussion— deliberations or even part of the discussion that we had in presenting this advice _ discussion that we had in presenting this advice to ministers at this point — this advice to ministers at this point in — this advice to ministers at this point in time and i am not aware of any modelling i have seen that suggests what impact this would have on those _ suggests what impact this would have on those older age groups, particularly because we can find the thought— particularly because we can find the thought process, this discussion sotety— thought process, this discussion solely on — thought process, this discussion solely on the benefits to the 12 to 15—year—old age range. i solely on the benefits to the 12 to 15-year-old age range.— solely on the benefits to the 12 to 15-year-old age range. i would 'ust add that their �* 15-year-old age range. i would 'ust add that their academic * 15-year-old age range. i would 'ust add that their academic groups h 15-year-old age range. i wouldjust| add that their academic groups that have looked at this, it is not that
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this is an unknown question, but we have not taken that into account at all because we very clearly wanted this to be just benefits and risks specifically in this age group. in general, though, anyone who has a vaccine is protecting people around them, as well as themselves, that goesin them, as well as themselves, that goes in every direction. 50 adults being vaccinated will reduce the risk to children. probably the same will be true the other way but we have not looked any more on this. i don't think there are any questions. we have two people who put their hands up, can ijust take those as the final two, because we all have to get on ideas and various other things. but i am keen that people do have the opportunity to ask questions. this is an important issue, which is the reason we are here, really. i issue, which is the reason we are here. really-— here, really. i noticed that the earlier you _ here, really. i noticed that the earlier you said _ here, really. i noticed that the earlier you said that _ here, really. i noticed that the earlier you said that rushing i here, really. i noticed that the - earlier you said that rushing didn't feel earlier you said that rushing didn't feet like _ earlier you said that rushing didn't feel like the — earlier you said that rushing didn't feel like the right _ earlier you said that rushing didn't feel like the right thing _ earlier you said that rushing didn't feel like the right thing to - earlier you said that rushing didn't feel like the right thing to do, - earlier you said that rushing didn't feel like the right thing to do, but| feel like the right thing to do, but surely— feel like the right thing to do, but surely throughout— feel like the right thing to do, but surely throughout this _ feel like the right thing to do, but surely throughout this whole - surely throughout this whole pandemic, _ surely throughout this whole pandemic, it— surely throughout this whole pandemic, it really- surely throughout this whole pandemic, it really has - surely throughout this whole pandemic, it really has beenj surely throughout this whole - pandemic, it really has been the right— pandemic, it really has been the right thing — pandemic, it really has been the right thing to _ pandemic, it really has been the right thing to do, _ pandemic, it really has been the right thing to do, and _ pandemic, it really has been the right thing to do, and other- right thing to do, and other countries _ right thing to do, and other countries that— right thing to do, and other countries that have - right thing to do, and other countries that have been i right thing to do, and other- countries that have been faster than us, whether— countries that have been faster than us, whether it — countries that have been faster than us, whether it is _ countries that have been faster than us, whether it is lockdown _ countries that have been faster than us, whether it is lockdown or- us, whether it is lockdown or anything _ us, whether it is lockdown or anything else, _ us, whether it is lockdown or anything else, seem - us, whether it is lockdown or anything else, seem to- us, whether it is lockdown or anything else, seem to have| us, whether it is lockdown or- anything else, seem to have had a bit of— anything else, seem to have had a bit of a _ anything else, seem to have had a bit of a better— anything else, seem to have had a bit of a better experience? - anything else, seem to have had a bit of a better experience? and . anything else, seem to have had a| bit of a better experience? and the one thing _ bit of a better experience? and the one thing we — bit of a better experience? and the one thing we were _ bit of a better experience? and the one thing we were faster— bit of a better experience? and the one thing we were faster than - bit of a better experience? and the one thing we were faster than the i one thing we were faster than the rest of— one thing we were faster than the rest of the — one thing we were faster than the rest of the world _ one thing we were faster than the rest of the world on _ one thing we were faster than the rest of the world on was - one thing we were faster than the rest of the world on was a - one thing we were faster than the rest of the world on was a vaccine is, that— rest of the world on was a vaccine is, that is— rest of the world on was a vaccine is, that is where _ rest of the world on was a vaccine is, that is where we _ rest of the world on was a vaccine is, that is where we clearly- rest of the world on was a vaccine. is, that is where we clearly soared. so was _ is, that is where we clearly soared. so was it— is, that is where we clearly soared. so was it really— is, that is where we clearly soared. so was it really the _ is, that is where we clearly soared. so was it really the right _ is, that is where we clearly soared. so was it really the right thing - is, that is where we clearly soared. so was it really the right thing to l so was it really the right thing to do, so was it really the right thing to do. to— so was it really the right thing to do. to wait— so was it really the right thing to do. to wait so— so was it really the right thing to do, to wait so much— so was it really the right thing to do, to wait so much longer- so was it really the right thing to do, to wait so much longer than| do, to wait so much longer than other— do, to wait so much longer than other countries, _ do, to wait so much longer than other countries, to _ do, to wait so much longer than other countries, to wait - do, to wait so much longer than other countries, to wait until. do, to wait so much longer than. other countries, to wait until after schools _ other countries, to wait until after schools had — other countries, to wait until after schools had returned _ other countries, to wait until after schools had returned to _ other countries, to wait until after schools had returned to do - other countries, to wait until after schools had returned to do this, l schools had returned to do this, because — schools had returned to do this, because it — schools had returned to do this, because it is _ schools had returned to do this, because it is going _ schools had returned to do this, because it is going to _ schools had returned to do this, because it is going to take - schools had returned to do this, because it is going to take a - schools had returned to do this, | because it is going to take a long time _ because it is going to take a long time to— because it is going to take a long time to roll— because it is going to take a long time to roll these _ because it is going to take a long time to roll these out _ because it is going to take a long time to roll these out and - because it is going to take a long time to roll these out and for- because it is going to take a long . time to roll these out and for these
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to be _ time to roll these out and for these to be set— time to roll these out and for these to be set in. — time to roll these out and for these to be set in, and— time to roll these out and for these to be set in, and won't— time to roll these out and for these to be set in, and won't the - time to roll these out and for these to be set in, and won't the benefitl to be set in, and won't the benefit be less— to be set in, and won't the benefit be less now— to be set in, and won't the benefit be less now that _ to be set in, and won't the benefit be less now that schools - to be set in, and won't the benefit be less now that schools are - to be set in, and won't the benefit. be less now that schools are already back than _ be less now that schools are already back than if— be less now that schools are already back than if we — be less now that schools are already back than if we had _ be less now that schools are already back than if we had started - be less now that schools are already back than if we had started when - back than if we had started when america — back than if we had started when america had _ back than if we had started when america had started? _ back than if we had started when america had started?— back than if we had started when america had started? well, i think t in: to america had started? well, i think trying to compare _ america had started? well, i think trying to compare national - trying to compare national differences is actually more complicated sometimes than it is made out. sometimes we have been ahead in terms of our advice, sometimes we have taken more time, and that is true for every nation. i would just be very cautious about trying to over interpret differences. but i would go back to our general viewer, differences. but i would go back to our generalviewer, it differences. but i would go back to our general viewer, it is important that we follow the normal processes we would and we take the time it takes to get the information we need, and i think anybody who believes that the big risk of covid is now all in the past and actually it is too late to be making a difference has not understood where we are going to head, as we go into autumn and winter, where they will continue to be challenges, continue to be pressure on the nhs and they will for the purpose of this importantly, continue to be disruption to education from covid. so i think it is important to say at this point, our advice is, as a universal offer, because we think
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that the coming terms, and for the longer term, we think this is going to reduce educational impacts, as well as reduce impact elsewhere. but at the danger of repeating ourselves, we really want to take this decision seriously, we have taken it seriously, and we have a unanimous view from the chief medical officers. last question. lots of parents will be listening to this, wondering _ lots of parents will be listening to this, wondering what _ lots of parents will be listening to this, wondering what to _ lots of parents will be listening to this, wondering what to say - lots of parents will be listening to this, wondering what to say they. this, wondering what to say they will have — this, wondering what to say they will have in— this, wondering what to say they will have in helping _ this, wondering what to say they will have in helping to _ this, wondering what to say they will have in helping to decide - will have in helping to decide whether— will have in helping to decide whether or— will have in helping to decide whether or not _ will have in helping to decide whether or not their- will have in helping to decide whether or not their children| will have in helping to decide - whether or not their children get vaccinated _ whether or not their children get vaccinated. could _ whether or not their children get vaccinated. could you _ whether or not their children get vaccinated. could you just - whether or not their children get vaccinated. could you just say. whether or not their children get vaccinated. could you just say ai vaccinated. could you just say a little _ vaccinated. could you just say a little bit — vaccinated. could you just say a little bit more _ vaccinated. could you just say a little bit more about _ vaccinated. could you just say a little bit more about consent, l vaccinated. could you just say a . little bit more about consent, and on a practical— little bit more about consent, and on a practical issue, _ little bit more about consent, and on a practical issue, assuming - on a practical issue, assuming ministers _ on a practical issue, assuming ministers do _ on a practical issue, assuming ministers do adopt _ on a practical issue, assuming ministers do adopt your - ministers do adopt your recommendation, - ministers do adopt your recommendation, when ministers do adopt your - recommendation, when you ministers do adopt your _ recommendation, when you would expect— recommendation, when you would expect this — recommendation, when you would expect this vaccination _ recommendation, when you would| expect this vaccination programme recommendation, when you would i expect this vaccination programme to start? _ expect this vaccination programme to start? �* ., ., , .,, ,., start? i'm going to stop you there, because we — start? i'm going to stop you there, because we genuinely _ start? i'm going to stop you there, because we genuinely also - start? i'm going to stop you there, because we genuinely also have i start? i'm going to stop you there, i because we genuinely also have other things but can i answer those two, and then if you are really dissatisfied, we can do the third one. the first one is a really difficult question to explain, but actually has a relatively straightforward answer. 50, the decision about who provides consent for children between 12 and 16 was
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laid down in law by the law lords, before the supreme court, back in the mid—805. there was a landmark case, all the law lords came to a very clear concision about how consent can be considered. that can't be overawed by doctors or ministers, unless they change the law. that is the law. and what that does essentially is says above a certain age there is an assumption people will take their own decisions, and once you are 18, you have to, and below a certain age, there is a high assumption that children cannot take decisions, and then there is a period between those, when, depending what the decision is, the child's views may be more important, child or young people's views, and as you get closer and closer to the point that we get to the top edge of that age range, an assumption that they can understand the issues involved, and therefore they can start to be involved in the decision. now in the great majority of cases, i will turn to greg or as a recent gp on this,
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in the great majority of cases, children and their parents come to the same decision so it is an irrelevant question, actually. for a small number of cases, there is some debate around this, and doctors, gps, paediatricians, people involved in vaccination programmes are really used to doing this. remember, this ruling about what the law says was laid down in the mid—805. we've been doing exactly the same approach to this since the mid—805, whether you are a gp, a paediatrician or anyone else dealing with children and young people, this approach is completely standard. and people are very used to it, and most doctors don't find this particularly tricky. so i want to reassure people we are not doing anything different in this than would be done for any other medical situation where consent was involved in people over this age range. greg, i would like to turn to you really are someone who has done this a gp. i have found myself involved in discussions like this on many occasions, _ discussions like this on many occasions, as i have sat down with
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children. _ occasions, as i have sat down with children, their parents or their guardians. _ children, their parents or their guardians, and we have discussed exactly— guardians, and we have discussed exactly the nature of the benefit and the — exactly the nature of the benefit and the approach that can be taken with various interventions, whether that be _ with various interventions, whether that be medicines, vaccinations or operations — that be medicines, vaccinations or operations. and the important thing is to be _ operations. and the important thing is to be able to have that discussion. i agree with you, chris, when _ discussion. i agree with you, chris, when you _ discussion. i agree with you, chris, when you say— discussion. i agree with you, chris, when you say that, by and large, you find that— when you say that, by and large, you find that there is a great deal of agreement between children and their parents. _ agreement between children and their parents. in _ agreement between children and their parents, in relation to how to proceed _ parents, in relation to how to proceed. the important thing is to be able _ proceed. the important thing is to be able to— proceed. the important thing is to be able to set that out and assess whether— be able to set that out and assess whether those children either have the competency to act for themselves. it is very similar in scotland — themselves. it is very similar in scotland as you have just described, in england _ scotland as you have just described, in england and wales. this is almost the bread _ in england and wales. this is almost the bread and butter of the approach that gps— the bread and butter of the approach that gps and other clinicians who have _ that gps and other clinicians who have been— that gps and other clinicians who have been dealing with children and young _ have been dealing with children and young people from many as have taken in any— young people from many as have taken in any aspect— young people from many as have taken in any aspect of consent that they take on— in any aspect of consent that they take on a — in any aspect of consent that they take on a day to day basis. i would
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'ust add, take on a day to day basis. i would just add. i— take on a day to day basis. i would just add, i would _ take on a day to day basis. i would just add, i would not _ take on a day to day basis. i would. just add, i would not underestimate the ability of children and young people to understand important issues that affect them directly. they think it is easy to do so. you had a second question which i allowed, then after that i said i would draw the line.— allowed, then after that i said i would draw the line. very briefly, for professor _ would draw the line. very briefly, for professor lim, _ would draw the line. very briefly, for professor lim, when - would draw the line. very briefly, for professor lim, when you - would draw the line. very briefly, l for professor lim, when you talked about _ for professor lim, when you talked about the _ for professor lim, when you talked about the marginal— for professor lim, when you talked about the marginal health - for professor lim, when you talked about the marginal health benefit i for professor lim, when you talkedl about the marginal health benefit in vaccinating — about the marginal health benefit in vaccinating children, _ about the marginal health benefit in vaccinating children, just _ about the marginal health benefit in vaccinating children, just wanted . about the marginal health benefit in vaccinating children, just wanted to| vaccinating children, just wanted to ask about _ vaccinating children, just wanted to ask about that, _ vaccinating children, just wanted to ask about that, because _ vaccinating children, just wanted to ask about that, because the - vaccinating children, just wanted to ask about that, because the jcvi i ask about that, because the jcvi data suggest— ask about that, because the jcvi data suggest if— ask about that, because the jcvi data suggest if you _ ask about that, because the jcvi data suggest if you vaccinate - ask about that, because the jcvi data suggest if you vaccinate 1. data suggest if you vaccinate 1 million — data suggest if you vaccinate 1 million children, _ data suggest if you vaccinate 1 million children, you - data suggest if you vaccinate 1 million children, you prevent. data suggest if you vaccinate 1. million children, you prevent 87 hospitalisations, _ million children, you prevent 87 hospitalisations, and _ million children, you prevent 87 hospitalisations, and between. million children, you prevent 87 - hospitalisations, and between three and 17 _ hospitalisations, and between three and 17 people — hospitalisations, and between three and 17 people would _ hospitalisations, and between three and 17 people would get _ hospitalisations, and between three l and 17 people would get myocarditis, almost _ and 17 people would get myocarditis, almost all— and 17 people would get myocarditis, almost all of — and 17 people would get myocarditis, almost all of which _ and 17 people would get myocarditis, almost all of which would _ and 17 people would get myocarditis, almost all of which would be - almost all of which would be resolved _ almost all of which would be resolved in _ almost all of which would be resolved in a _ almost all of which would be resolved in a short _ almost all of which would be resolved in a short time. - almost all of which would be . resolved in a short time. given those — resolved in a short time. given those figures, _ resolved in a short time. given those figures, could _ resolved in a short time. given those figures, could you - resolved in a short time. given those figures, could you say i resolved in a short time. given those figures, could you say a i resolved in a short time. given . those figures, could you say a bit about— those figures, could you say a bit about how — those figures, could you say a bit about how marginal— those figures, could you say a bit about how marginal that - those figures, could you say a bit about how marginal that really i those figures, could you say a bit about how marginal that really is| about how marginal that really is because — about how marginal that really is because it — about how marginal that really is because it seems _ about how marginal that really is because it seems like _ about how marginal that really is because it seems like quite - about how marginal that really is because it seems like quite a - because it seems like quite a significant _ because it seems like quite a significant benefit? - because it seems like quite a significant benefit? i- because it seems like quite a significant benefit?— because it seems like quite a significant benefit? i think it is very difficult. _ significant benefit? i think it is very difficult, when _ significant benefit? i think it is very difficult, when you - significant benefit? i think it is very difficult, when you are - significant benefit? i think it is| very difficult, when you are just looking — very difficult, when you are just looking at— very difficult, when you are just looking at numbers, to try and weigh them _ looking at numbers, to try and weigh them up. _ looking at numbers, to try and weigh them up, and say one hospitalisation is equal— them up, and say one hospitalisation is equal to _ them up, and say one hospitalisation is equal to one case of myocarditis, because we are talking about different reasons for being
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hospitalised, and different longer term consequences between these two situations _ term consequences between these two situations. similarly, if you are looking — situations. similarly, if you are looking at— situations. similarly, if you are looking at admissions to intensive care units— looking at admissions to intensive care units or other benefits, if you will, _ care units or other benefits, if you will, so _ care units or other benefits, if you will, so it— care units or other benefits, if you will, so it is— care units or other benefits, if you will, so it is not a straight case of will, so it is not a straight case oqust— will, so it is not a straight case ofjust doing the maths, adding up the numbers on which one is higher, which _ the numbers on which one is higher, which one _ the numbers on which one is higher, which one is— the numbers on which one is higher, which one is lower. there is much more _ which one is lower. there is much more to— which one is lower. there is much more to those numbers and to that table _ more to those numbers and to that table we _ more to those numbers and to that table. we did spend many, many hours. _ table. we did spend many, many hours, looking at a whole range of benefits, — hours, looking at a whole range of benefits, and that table is simply there _ benefits, and that table is simply there to — benefits, and that table is simply there to show what the background numbers _ there to show what the background numbers are, but each of those numbers— numbers are, but each of those numbers had to be weighed up to determine what the severity of illness — determine what the severity of illness is, _ determine what the severity of illness is, and what the consequences might be. sol illness is, and what the consequences might be. so i would 'ust consequences might be. so i would iust warn— consequences might be. so i would just warn againstjust consequences might be. so i would just warn against just adding up numbers— just warn against just adding up numbers and saying which one comes out higher— numbers and saying which one comes out higher than the other. thank numbers and saying which one comes out higher than the other.— out higher than the other. thank you all very much — out higher than the other. thank you all very much for— out higher than the other. thank you all very much for taking _ out higher than the other. thank you all very much for taking the - out higher than the other. thank you all very much for taking the time, i all very much for taking the time, and i look forward to seeing you
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again in person, it has been very nice to see you all, thanks as always to my colleagues in scotland, wales and northern ireland. thanks a lot. ,, , ., ., , ., lot. studio: so that was a bit more clarity there — lot. studio: so that was a bit more clarity there from _ lot. studio: so that was a bit more clarity there from the _ lot. studio: so that was a bit more clarity there from the four - lot. studio: so that was a bit more clarity there from the four cm i lot. studio: so that was a bit more clarity there from the four cm ohs l clarity there from the four cm ohs of the uk. we also heard from the var, of the uk. we also heard from the jcvi, and the of the uk. we also heard from the jcvi, and the mhra, of the uk. we also heard from the jcvi, and the mhra, as to what was behind that decision to allow 12 to 15—year—olds to be offered a covert vaccine. and unanimous agreement from all the nations cmo is, that they will be recommending that parents, this is an informed decision, between parents and children, that parents take this offer of a vaccine. we understand it is going to be the pfizer vaccine, and at the moment it is just one dose being recommended. they were asked about whether or not this could have been handled better to try and avoid the confusion that has
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been created, but there was the explanation that this was not an obvious decision to come to. it wasn't barn door obvious, said chris whitty. it was slightly more complex. there were a lot more factors that had to be included. nick eardley, our political correspondent, has also been following that press conference. nick, your key points watching that, what can you explain for us, or what can you just highlight for us? itrefoil. can you 'ust highlight for us? well, i think can you just highlight for us? well, i think the various _ can you just highlight for us? well, i think the various experts - can you just highlight for us? well, i think the various experts we i can you just highlight for us? .m i think the various experts we just heard from wanted to take quite a long time to set out their thinking on this, and why there had been that decision by the jvc vi early in the month that they weren't preferred to make that decision —— —— thejcvi, that they weren't prepared to make that they weren't prepared to make that decision, and why that was
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compatible with what the cmos have done today. so they explain their rationale, and ultimately though this will be a decision down to ministers. we have heard from the four governments across the uk, the uk government plus the devolved governments in scotland, wales and northern ireland because ultimately it is a ministerial decision. i would be surprised if they go against what has been set out by the cmos. i would also be surprised if cm05. i would also be surprised if they leave it too long before making their decisions public. and we could potentially see that within the next few hours or into tomorrow before borisjohnson few hours or into tomorrow before boris johnson sets few hours or into tomorrow before borisjohnson sets out his wider plan for the autumn and winter when it comes to covid. what we have just heard over the last hour is an attempt by the experts to set out how they have reached this decision, why it took a bit longer than it could have, and ultimately their view that whilst this is a balance, it is when they think falls in favour of getting 12 to 15—year—olds
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the jab. favour of getting 12 to 15-year-olds the 'ab. , . ~ , favour of getting 12 to 15-year-olds the 'ab. , , ., ;;:: the jab. very quickly, about 30 seconds, the jab. very quickly, about 30 seconds. they _ the jab. very quickly, about 30 seconds, they were _ the jab. very quickly, about 30 seconds, they were pushed i the jab. very quickly, about 30 seconds, they were pushed on | the jab. very quickly, about 30 - seconds, they were pushed on consent but they pushed back, and obviously they said this is a legal decision, it was part of a law lords decision. yeah, i mean ultimately this will be a decision for parents and for young people across the uk to make up their own mind on it, we heard that very much from the experts on the panel, the welsh cmo for example talking about the rights of children, so not compulsory, it has not been compulsory at any point apart from some medical settings but absolutely you are right, the individual choice is still going to be a part of this process.- individual choice is still going to be a part of this process. thank you very much- — be a part of this process. thank you very much- nick _ be a part of this process. thank you very much. nick will _ be a part of this process. thank you very much. nick will be _ be a part of this process. thank you very much. nick will be speaking i very much. nick will be speaking later in the programme with ben brown, who will be with you at the top of the hour. first, let's catch up top of the hour. first, let's catch up with the weather, sarah keith—lucas. this time last week we had
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temperature is close to 30 degrees will stop much more autumnal this week. most places fairly cloudy, some rain pushing into the west courtesy of a couple of weather fronts you can see on the map here. we still have high pressure setting out to the east, and that is keeping things largely dry and settled for parts of southern and eastern loan. we have that thick cloud moving on from the west. into this evening will be optically heavy for the south—west of england, wales, northern england too. quite a lot of wet weather moving on from the south as we head into the early hours of tuesday morning. temperatures remaining pretty mild, quite humid overnight, perhaps we were just a single figures across the north of scotland. tomorrow, we're watching this area of rain that becomes quite heavy and persistent, moving up through central and southern england, the midlands come up towards the likes of lincolnshire and east yorkshire as well. could be 50 millimetres or more of rain falling in quite a short space of time, leading to potential localised
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flooding issues. things look drier for scotland, northern ireland and laterfor wales in for scotland, northern ireland and later for wales in the south—west, but still a few showers moving on here. overnight tuesday into wednesday morning, after all that rain, moist surfaces, we could see quite a foggy start to the day on wednesday. 50 light winds, some folk are lingering through the morning should lift and clear. early rain towards parts of eastern england gradually shifting away, so i think wednesday a drier day across england and wales, certainly compared to tuesday. some sunny spells for scotland and northern ireland. temperatures 16 to 21 degrees typically on wednesday, not far from what we would expect of the time of year. thursday again could start with the mist, fog and low cloud, which tend to break up through the day, sunny spells developing. not a bad day, most places dry for much of the day, though there will be some rain waiting in the wings moving in from the west, but temperatures in the warmer spots, 22, possibly 23 degrees, a little bit cooler up towards the north—west. towards the end of the working week, this weather front moving in from the west, that could bring some fairly heavy spells of rain, as we move
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through to friday. it looks like it mainly clears away towards the east. so mainly clears away towards the east. 50 saturday probably a bit drier and brighter could not quite as warm though as it has been lately. goodbye for now.
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this is bbc news. the headlines. covid vaccines for 12—15 year olds are approved by the four uk chief medical officers. they say it would mean fewer children will have their education disrupted. the benefit exceeded the risk to a sufficient degree that we are recommending to our ministers in all four nations that they make a universal offer and i want to stress the word offer, a vaccination to children 12 to 15 in addition to those who have very been immunised. one dose of the pfizer jab will be offered. nearly one in three people arriving in england and northern ireland, may have broken the rules
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on travel quarantine, at a time when the delta variant was spreading.

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