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tv   Political Thinking with Nick...  BBC News  June 11, 2022 8:30pm-9:01pm BST

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when the facial nerves become overactive and patients can get linked to movements in theirface. for example, when they are chewing, there i might be closing at the same time, it is very debilitating. patients can get extreme tightness in their face as a result of this overactivity, which can be very, very painful and their face will not move properly as a result of this overactivity and stiffness. all of this can have a huge detrimental effect on a patient�*s psychological health as well. i effect on a patient's psychological health as well.— health as well. i suppose justin bieber being — health as well. i suppose justin bieber being so _ health as well. i suppose justin bieber being so open _ health as well. i suppose justin bieber being so open about. health as well. i suppose justin | bieber being so open about this health as well. i suppose justin - bieber being so open about this will raise awareness of the condition and the symptoms?— the symptoms? absolutely, it is so im ortant the symptoms? absolutely, it is so important that— the symptoms? absolutely, it is so important that people _ the symptoms? absolutely, it is so important that people understand i the symptoms? absolutely, it is so i important that people understand the condition, the symptoms so it doesn't get misdiagnosed in the future. we know from a survey we did with the facial palsy uk charity,
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over 50% of patients with ramsay hunt syndrome were misdiagnosed, so we want to make sure that is not happening in the future. raising awareness of facial palsy, raising awareness of facial palsy, raising awareness of facial palsy, raising awareness of ramsay hunt syndrome is absolutely vital and people need to get the support they need and access charities like facial palsy uk, hospitals that specialise in facial palsy management in order to get the appropriate help at the appropriate time. ., ~' ,, , . now on bbc news, political thinking with nick robinson. hello and welcome to political thinking, a conversation with rather than interrogation of someone whose political thinking shapes all of ours. this week my guest is a symbol of the modern labour party, a symbol if you like of a party
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of two eras. on the one hand, 13 years in power. on the other, 12 years of powerlessness. yvette cooper was once a young rising star of the new labour blair and brown years, but what followed was the wilderness years of opposition, summed up for many by the night on which her husband ed balls lost his seat, as a neighbour of hers in yorkshire. cooper ran to be labour leader againstjeremy corbyn and lost and lost badly. keir starmer brought her back to front line politics, asking her to become shadow home secretary. yvette cooper, welcome to political thinking. good to be here, nick. i'm sorry to mention the powerlessness! when you watch the tory infighting this week, who is going to be leader? and nobody says keir starmer. it is, will it bejeremy hunt, will it be borisjohnson? does it increase that sense of frustration,
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of not being in power? the frustration of not being able to do things is huge, and you're right, we've had 12 years of this now. we are nearly going to have been as long out of power as we were in power. and yes, there's just this massive difference, and it is incredibly frustrating. i think it's also... it's frustrating in terms of all the things that you can do in government, but also frustrating, watching them right now, because it feels like they are damaging everybody. we're going to talk about politics, as it were, in a while. but just talking about you, do you ever feel, as these years have passed on, years of opposition, "maybe i had my moment, maybe it's time to do something else"? and seeing your husband ed develop a completely new life, are there moments you think, not, "i could go on strictly" because i suspect that's not quite your thing. but are there moments where you think, "there's another life i could have had"?
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0h, he is having a whale of a time, isn't he? so, yes, he is having a great time. and there are times, especially, you know, when we have a series of votes that we just keep losing and we just keep walking round in circles in the voting lobbies and dutifully voting on something that we are making no difference on at all, there are times when you think, yes, other people are having an awful lot more fun! other people, she says. point to ed! i was reading, which i didn't know, that you'd rent once that you'd ——dreamt once of being a tap dancer. yes, see, the strictly thing is interesting because i did tap lessons when i was a child and i really liked tap dancing and thought that would be great fun, and i wasn't particularly good at it but i did really like it. so the dancing thing, for me, has always been great fun. and it was actually partly because i had thought dancing was great, we would alljust have fun doing ridiculous dancing at weddings and so on, that i had always thought after 2015, after ed lost his seat, "do you know what? the great thing for him to do would be strictly."
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i never thought that would happen. i just thought that was a totally mad idea. but i thought it would be fun. and so it was actually, i was asked repeatedly about whether in fact it was going to be in the driving seat, kind of thing. and a throwaway remark, i was getting a bit fed up of the questions, i said, you know, "who knows what he'll do next? he might even do strictly." and immediately, the sun newspaper started ringing up the bbc. it must have been some deliberate ploy behind this! and started badgering them. so i sort of told myself, i think that's what gave the bbc the idea to then ask him. and it clearly means that we could conspire now to get him on, what, i'm a celebrity or anything! say what you like, we could get the sun to pick it up. what's interesting is, people listening will already say, say, i've heard a side of yvette i don't normally here. because you're quite a private person. i think i had to persuade you a bit to do this interview. why is that something generally have been a bit wary of? i
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is that something generally have been a bit wary of?— is that something generally have been a bit wary of? i guess i think i robabl been a bit wary of? i guess i think i probably would _ been a bit wary of? i guess i think i probably would talk _ been a bit wary of? i guess i think i probably would talk much - been a bit wary of? i guess i think i probably would talk much more | i probably would talk much more about family issues, about personal issues and so on, when i was first elected. but bear in mind i was first elected when i was 28 and i was a bit thrown in the deep end. i didn't expect to get selected in 1997. i thought i was just having a go because of the people had encouraged me, said, have a go. and so i was a bit sort of in the deep end. and i think you then quite quickly find, actually, that everyone you care about is fair game. and so it became probably about protecting everybody else, as well. and i think that's maybe more so for women than for men in politics, too. so for women than for men in politics. toe-— so for women than for men in politics, too. so for women than for men in olitics, too. . , ., ., politics, too. that people want to ull our politics, too. that people want to pull your life _ politics, too. that people want to pull your life apart? _ politics, too. that people want to pull your life apart? your- politics, too. that people want to pull your life apart? your parentsj pull your life apart? your parents and your...? pull your life apart? your parents and your- - - ?_ pull your life apart? your parents and our...? , ., ~ ., and your...? yes, and you know, we had newspaper_ and your...? yes, and you know, we had newspaper stories _ and your...? yes, and you know, we had newspaper stories attacking - and your...? yes, and you know, we
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had newspaper stories attacking us | had newspaper stories attacking us about our wedding, newspaper... you know, newspapers trying to contact our parents and ask them things and so on. and i think i probablyjust developed quite a strong protective wall about, and especially once the kids were born, we were quite fierce about retracting their privacy. —— protecting their privacy. and if everyone wants to ask about your hinterland and if your hinterland actually is about your family and your kids and you haven't got a bunch of mad hobbies and things like that...! bunch of mad hobbies and things like that. . .! ., bunch of mad hobbies and things like that...! ., ., �* ., ., that. . .! you haven't got time for that! exactly. — that. . .! you haven't got time for that! exactly, what _ that. . .! you haven't got time for that! exactly, what you - that. . .! you haven't got time for that! exactly, what you don't - that. . .! you haven't got time for i that! exactly, what you don't have time for. then _ that! exactly, what you don't have time for. then you _ that! exactly, what you don't have time for. then you end _ that! exactly, what you don't have time for. then you end up, - that! exactly, what you don't have time for. then you end up, or- that! exactly, what you don't have time for. then you end up, or i . that! exactly, what you don't have l time for. then you end up, or i end up, anyway, just probably not talking very much about that. you once said it's _ talking very much about that. you once said it's just _ talking very much about that. you once said it'sjust too talking very much about that. you once said it's just too awful being a political child. where you think you have your kids or was there an element in which you, because your father was a national trade union leader, not one of the big names of that era but he was important player in the trade union movement, was that a little bit of reflection of your upbringing? i that a little bit of reflection of your upbringing?—
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that a little bit of reflection of your upbringing? i think probably not because _ your upbringing? i think probably not because i _ your upbringing? i think probably not because i think _ your upbringing? i think probably not because i think that... - your upbringing? i think probably not because i think that. .. i - your upbringing? i think probably i not because i think that. .. i mean, not because i think that... i mean, my dad was a trade union official, he took me, i went with him on the people's march forjobs in the early 80s, you know, marched with union banners and so on. but i think we neverfelt publicly banners and so on. but i think we never felt publicly exposed, growing up. 50 never felt publicly exposed, growing u . _ , ., never felt publicly exposed, growing up. so your dad was leader of prospector — up. so your dad was leader of prospector trade _ up. so your dad was leader of prospector trade union, - up. so your dad was leader of prospector trade union, the l up. so your dad was leader of- prospector trade union, the general secretary of it, taking you on people's march, was it ever a political house? were you arguing over the kitchen table, shouting at the telly or the radio when you're growing up? i the telly or the radio when you're growing up?— the telly or the radio when you're curowin u? ~' �* ., , growing up? i think we didn't really about -a growing up? i think we didn't really about party politics _ growing up? i think we didn't really about party politics or— growing up? i think we didn't really about party politics or political- about party politics or political party activism so much, but i guess... i guess there were always issues. so my dad... my dad was very much in the trade union, he always had a huge scepticism about institutions, readiness to challenge, to question, and to probably encourage us to really always believe that actually, if an
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institution is doing something, chances are it may be wrong and you should be questioning and challenging. and my mum's family is a mining family, she grew up in a mining village in west cumberland. and very much had that sense of solidarity, that labour solidarity and community kind of ethos of hard work but helping others and supporting others in the community. because actually, you grew up in a prosperous house rather than a coalfield community, but i get a sense that that influence, there was a set of values, lived on, notjust through your mum but also this very powerfulfigure you've through your mum but also this very powerful figure you've talked about once or twice, your aunt. yes. powerful figure you've talked about once or twice, your aunt.— once or twice, your aunt. yes, my treat once or twice, your aunt. yes, my great aunt- — once or twice, your aunt. yes, my great aunt. she _ once or twice, your aunt. yes, my great aunt. she was _ once or twice, your aunt. yes, my great aunt. she was a _ once or twice, your aunt. yes, my great aunt. she was a proper - great aunt. she was a proper matriarch, you know, she was... my mum's auntie, and my mum's mum died when i was very small and i don't really remember her at all. but my great aunt was one of those women who, before the nhs was set up, she
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would be going to help with the babies being born in the community. she would go and lay out bodies when somebody died. she was just one of those pivotal people in the community. and she worked hard and i really remember, i think it would have been, i think it was the late 80s, the budget, i think it was the 1988 budget when nigel lawson cut taxes for higher earners at the same time as freezing pensions. and effectively that meant a real cut in pensions, and my auntie, she didn't have a full pension because of the job she had done, she didn't even have a full pension. she found it really hard to make ends meet. and i remember my mum being so angry, just curious, standing in the kitchen, to the point of tears, that how could a government do this? —— just furious. how could a government cut taxes for those on the highest pensions and cut my aunt's pensions because mexer
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would have that your moment when you said, politics matters? == would have that your moment when you said, politics matters?— said, politics matters? -- say was that our said, politics matters? -- say was that your moment _ said, politics matters? -- say was that your moment when _ said, politics matters? -- say was that your moment when you - said, politics matters? -- say was that your moment when you said i that your moment when you said politics matters?— that your moment when you said politics matters? actually it was my moment when _ politics matters? actually it was my moment when government - politics matters? actually it was my. moment when government matches. because there are all sorts of things you could get involved in and probably as a result of my dad, probably as a result of my dad, probably at that sense of just changing things orjust questioning things all the way through, but i think that was quite a powerful, actually, just it really matters what governments do. you actually, just it really matters what governments do. you then go off at oxford university, _ what governments do. you then go off at oxford university, where _ what governments do. you then go off at oxford university, where you - what governments do. you then go off at oxford university, where you do - at oxford university, where you do spectacularly well. you go to balliol college at oxford. not that long after borisjohnson has left. was he still presents? because he was a big character. i was at the university at the same time for the was he still a character? he university at the same time for the was he still a character?— was he still a character? he really wasn't at all- _ was he still a character? he really wasn't at all. i _ was he still a character? he really wasn't at all. i had _ was he still a character? he really wasn't at all. i had absently - was he still a character? he really wasn't at all. i had absently no i wasn't at all. i had absently no idea who he was. the one person i did meet was michael gove, who then tried to persuade me tojoin did meet was michael gove, who then tried to persuade me to join the oxford union, and i remember thinking, you know what, i don't want anything to do with any of this. this feels... it felt quite
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sort of smoke and entitled, the whole thing. and it also was really expensive. —— it felt smug and entitles up it was a little bubble of its own. the idea that kind of thing had anything to do with most people's lives, just didn't feel real. at all. people's lives, 'ust didn't feel real. at all.— people's lives, 'ust didn't feel real. at all. ., ., ., ., real. at all. you then moved at an incredibly exciting _ real. at all. you then moved at an incredibly exciting time _ real. at all. you then moved at an incredibly exciting time in - real. at all. you then moved at an incredibly exciting time in the - incredibly exciting time in the politics, he worked as a journalist but then go on to work for harriet harman w meet ad, he was working for gordon brown at the time and then your struck by a really serious illness, something that brought your life effectively to a standstill, didn't it? i life effectively to a standstill, didn't it? ., ., , ., didn't it? i had any for, it was robabl didn't it? i had any for, it was probably for _ didn't it? i had any for, it was probably for about, _ didn't it? i had any for, it was probably for about, probablyl didn't it? i had any for, it was i probably for about, probably two didn't it? i had any for, it was - probably for about, probably two or three years in total. —— i had me for about two or three years in total. i was completely off, couldn't do anything. and that was such a big psychological challenge,
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as well. because i had alwaysjust done things. just always been busy, always had, you know, a slightly chaotic mix of things going on and then suddenly couldn't do anything. suddenly i could barely go out of the flat, barely do anything at all. and also, not knowing when it was going to end. so that was probably the hardest time i've ever been through. after i had been ill for a few months, i then got depressed, you know, quite understandably. and, yeah, that was really hard. did it chance yeah, that was really hard. did it change your _ yeah, that was really hard. did it change your view? _ yeah, that was really hard. did it change your view? because - yeah, that was really hard. did it change your view? because you | yeah, that was really hard. did it change your view? because you went on to be in charge of the benefit system, went on to be secretary of state for work and pensions. was there a bit of that experience that you always carried, maybe still carry with you?— you always carried, maybe still carry with you? yes, i think it's 'ust carry with you? yes, i think it's just understanding _ carry with you? yes, i think it's just understanding the - carry with you? yes, i think it's| just understanding the difficulty when people actually are desperate to work, really want to, but long—term sickness or difficulties, or disabilities, can end up holding people back and actually, what you need to do is to support people.
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it's set in the what's happening now. you have got a massive drop in the number of people who are in the labour market. you got a big increase in the people on long—term sickness, partly because of long covid. you need to actively help people and i don't think that is happening. people and i don't think that is happening-— people and i don't think that is haueninr. , happening. happily, you did recover. you became — happening. happily, you did recover. you became a _ happening. happily, you did recover. you became a member— happening. happily, you did recover. you became a member of— happening. happily, you did recover. | you became a member of parliament, young, as you'vejust you became a member of parliament, young, as you've just said. and also, one of the first generation of working mums in the house of commons. how difficult was that? we take for granted now, because the sheer number of women there are in politics now, even though of course there are still many challenges for them. we take for granted a lot of provision, understanding made. i imaginejust 45 years provision, understanding made. i imagine just 45 years ago it didn't feel like that at all. ida. imagine just 45 years ago it didn't feel like that at all.— feel like that at all. no, it was... i feel like that at all. no, it was... i think- -- — feel like that at all. no, it was... i think- -- i _ feel like that at all. no, it was... ithink... i mean, _ feel like that at all. no, it was... i think... i mean, there - feel like that at all. no, it was... i think... i mean, there were, i ithink... i mean, there were, we had a big increase in the number of women in 1997 so i think that made it much easierfor women in 1997 so i think that made it much easier for me then, say, women in 1997 so i think that made it much easierfor me then, say, for harriet harman and her generation.
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but it was a bit mad. and there was a sense, as well, that you should try and not talk about it too much. you know, not admit that you were iugghng you know, not admit that you were juggling so many different things. so i stopped doing red boxes in the evening when i became a minister, i would do them at weekends but not in the evening because i thought, this is bonkers. you're expecting us to do all these important papers late at night and actually, that's also, i'm trying to put the kids to bed, you know, trying to balance everything else. and so i said this in answer to a question from a journalist at one point. and i had a senior cabinet minister, who was very supportive, but says to me, you shouldn't be saying this. you should not be admitting that you're not doing the traditional red box of papers in the evening. because, you know, people will think you're not doing the work. people will think... in other words, you're effectively saying to people, the system should change to reflect real life, not that i should just stay up till three in the morning or get up at
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four to do it was a big likely come and do it in different ways. but we also had this _ and do it in different ways. but we also had this mad _ and do it in different ways. but we also had this mad process - and do it in different ways. but we also had this mad process of- also had this mad process of travelling to and fro, it was real chaos, to the sort of, you know, getting kids to and from each week... �* , i. getting kids to and from each week... , , _, week... because your constituency is in yorkshire- — week... because your constituency is in yorkshire. yes, _ week... because your constituency is in yorkshire. yes, and _ week... because your constituency is in yorkshire. yes, and we _ week... because your constituency is in yorkshire. yes, and we would - week... because your constituency is in yorkshire. yes, and we would go i in yorkshire. yes, and we would go back every — in yorkshire. yes, and we would go back every week — in yorkshire. yes, and we would go back every week on _ in yorkshire. yes, and we would go back every week on a _ in yorkshire. yes, and we would go back every week on a thursday - in yorkshire. yes, and we would go back every week on a thursday or i back every week on a thursday or friday morning, come back down sunday evening, and so on. and that, especially when the kids, when you're going through the potty training phase...— you're going through the potty training phase... you're going through the potty - training phase. . ._ and training phase... really tricky! and i had that same _ training phase... really tricky! and i had that same sense _ training phase... really tricky! and i had that same sense of _ training phase... really tricky! and i had that same sense of trying - training phase... really tricky! and i had that same sense of trying to i i had that same sense of trying to pretend i'm professional. and we had this one point where i was on the train, we were aiming to get off at doncaster, and the whole tony blair prime ministerial entourage comes sweeping down the platform and i literally had. i thought, i can't... i got small kids with me. i can't pretend to be a professional minister and also deal with the kids. so i ducked, literally he'd as they all came down so no one would see me as they got on! i thought it
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was ok, they got on different carriage, nobody will notice, and just before i got off at doncaster, i had to change a small town's nathi, the small child had a different view of this! and halfway through nappy changing, set off down the train, without a nathi, set off down the train, ran straight past tony blair and cherie blair and the whole entourage, with me then pelting after to grab this child! and i couldn't even stop and explain, hi, yes, hello! got to go! had to get off the train!— had to get off the train! thought ou were had to get off the train! thought you were going _ had to get off the train! thought you were going to _ had to get off the train! thought you were going to say _ had to get off the train! thought you were going to say you'd - had to get off the train! thought - you were going to say you'd pretend you were going to say you'd pretend you didn't recognise them!- you didn't recognise them! nothing to do with me! _ you didn't recognise them! nothing to do with me! was _ you didn't recognise them! nothing to do with me! was it _ you didn't recognise them! nothing to do with me! was it ever - to do with me! was it ever mentioned? _ to do with me! was it ever mentioned? we _ to do with me! was it ever mentioned? we never- to do with me! was it ever - mentioned? we never mentioned it arain! mentioned? we never mentioned it again! they — mentioned? we never mentioned it again! theyjust _ mentioned? we never mentioned it again! they just looked _ mentioned? we never mentioned it again! theyjust looked in - mentioned? we never mentioned it again! theyjust looked in shock- mentioned? we never mentioned it again! they just looked in shock at| again! theyjust looked in shock at me charging down! that again! theyjust looked in shock at me charging down!— me charging down! that is the fun but ou've me charging down! that is the fun but you've also — me charging down! that is the fun but you've also experiences - me charging down! that is the fun but you've also experiences as - but you've also experiences as women, as a mother in politics, and it sort of alluded to it with the kids, kind of the horror that we have seen, the threats that have got worse and worse, social media and so on, and i was very struck that your
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daughter, who made a point of saying when she did this, "i did with talk about politics." she tweeted after a row about brexit in parliament, saying, after chilling scenes in parliament last night, i am scared, she said. which must have been very hard for you to read, i am sure. yes, that is probably the hardest thing. and with the rise of social media... we have seen a lot more abuse. and the abuses higherfor women, it's also higherfor those who are black or ethnic minority, a racist element to it, as well. and i guess... i and other mps, we find ways ofjust dealing with that. other, you know, just ignoring things and so on. but for your family, it's really hard. and i think especially, i mean, obviously
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afterjo cox was murdered, obviously, david amess as well, you have that happen, we have the westminster terror attack as well. i think it is really hard for close family. think it is really hard for close famil . ., , ., ., , family. running through you and this interview, family. running through you and this interview. a — family. running through you and this interview, a bit— family. running through you and this interview, a bit like _ family. running through you and this interview, a bit like lettering - interview, a bit like lettering through a piece of blackpool rock, is someone screaming, i got to be backin is someone screaming, i got to be back in power! got to be back in government! now you're in a marginal seat which has got more marginal in yorkshire, very high ukip vote at one stage, brexit vote, exactly the sort of red wall area, i don't much like that phrase but so people know what we are talking about, you must have had to do a lot of thinking about why labour keeps losing. the cliche is, some people blame corbyn, some corbyn backers blame brexit, i suspect you've got a bit more about that, why? why did those people, who
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you would have assumed were labour voters, not want to vote labour? i think underpinning both those things come about brexit and i were leader, jeremy corbyn's leadership, where big factors. underpinning both of them, i think was a feeling among a lot of people in towns like ours that labour was disrespecting them and that the party sort of disrespected them on things like security. they didn't think we had a leader who would keep them safe. they didn't think we respected the big institutions of the country. of theissues big institutions of the country. of the issues around patriotism. but they also thought that the second referendum was disrespecting the result of the referendum, and i think that was damaging. bud result of the referendum, and i think that was damaging. and yet eo - le think that was damaging. and yet people listening _ think that was damaging. and yet people listening to _ think that was damaging. and yet people listening to what - think that was damaging. and yet people listening to what you - think that was damaging. and yet people listening to what you said | people listening to what you said about brexit will say, hold on, keir
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starmer was the guy who wanted the second referendum. there was the cooper amendment which bore your name, which is about stopping a no—deal brexit, which some interpreted as an attempt to scrap or scupper brexit altogether. have you done enough work to say to those voters, sorry? i you done enough work to say to those voters. sorry?— voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of thins voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of things wrong — voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of things wrong and _ voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of things wrong and i _ voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of things wrong and i think - voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of things wrong and i think a - voters, sorry? i think we got a lot of things wrong and i think a lot l voters, sorry? i think we got a lot| of things wrong and i think a lot of people got things wrong. i obviously had said i thought we shouldn't have the second referendum, that it wasn't the right policy for the general election, but there were different views on that. that was my view. i also took the view that we shouldn't have no deal and that would be damaging. i think... shouldn't have no deal and that would be damaging. ithink... you would be damaging. i think... you arrue would be damaging. i think... you argue that — would be damaging. i think... you argue that at _ would be damaging. i think... you argue that at the _ would be damaging. ithink... you argue that at the time. would be damaging. i think... you argue that at the time. yes, - would be damaging. i think... you argue that at the time. yes, i - argue that at the time. yes, i an ued argue that at the time. yes, i argued that — argue that at the time. yes, i argued that at _ argue that at the time. yes, i argued that at the _ argue that at the time. yes, i argued that at the time. - argue that at the time. yes, i argued that at the time. i - argue that at the time. yes, i i argued that at the time. i think argue that at the time. yes, i - argued that at the time. i think one of the things that i think i got wrong on it was, i genuinely thought that somehow it would be possible to build consensus and that may be, ok, if things took a bit longer and it
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took longer than they would be more chance of people coming together and finding a way through this, finding a way to build some consensus. but actually, the opposite happened and the longer it took, the more polarised everything became. and i got that wrong. but i think things became more polarised, but i think, you know, look, but we've got to do now is moving forward. you know, we are outside the eu. we have new relationships to build. we've got to set up now a positive future for the country that moves on. immigration is one of those policies _ country that moves on. immigration is one of those policies that - is one of those policies that obviously lay at the heart of the concerns of seven, by no means all, but some of those people who wanted brexit. —— the concerns of some. as it are saying, we had not got enough your responsibility for immigration policy as shadow home secretary. that getting to the weeds of immigration policy, that's for another interview, broadly, are they right? does the economy need more immigrants? the right? does the economy need more immigrants?—
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immigrants? the level of net migration. — immigrants? the level of net migration, migration - immigrants? the level of net migration, migration is - immigrants? the level of net j migration, migration is about immigrants? the level of net - migration, migration is about the same now as it was before brexit was implement it. so the composition has changed but the overall level is about the same. the big thing that has changed in the labour market is there has been a big drop in the number of over 50s working. i think some of this is also been affected by notjust some of this is also been affected by not just things some of this is also been affected by notjust things like long—term sickness but also about things like lack of childcare, lack of affordable childcare, people giving up affordable childcare, people giving up work to look after their grandchildren, things like that. so it's a much more completed situation. b5 it's a much more completed situation-— it's a much more completed situation. a ., ., , situation. as you give that answer, and ou situation. as you give that answer, and you will _ situation. as you give that answer, and you will know _ situation. as you give that answer, and you will know the _ situation. as you give that answer, and you will know the criticism - situation. as you give that answer, | and you will know the criticism that sometime it's is made of you, and that you face when you ran for leader, you run as a candidate of the radical centre and were mocked for not wanting to give answers. somebody did eight nimes, i think, say you couldn't choose between tea and coffee. —— somebody did at meme. does it frustrate you? you're a
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policy person for the press bet if giving you time to talk about immigration policy you could fill the hole half—hour. does it frustrate you that people want to boil things down to yes and no in that way? in boil things down to yes and no in that wa ? ., , that way? in the end, the world is completed. _ that way? in the end, the world is completed, isn't _ that way? in the end, the world is completed, isn't it? _ that way? in the end, the world is completed, isn't it? i— that way? in the end, the world is completed, isn't it? i like - that way? in the end, the world is | completed, isn't it? i like evidence and like facts and i think that's not a bad thing! —— back of the world is complicated. if you want to change the rodeo to be able to do it in a way that makes sense and you've got to be able to deliver. and there's no point injust got to be able to deliver. and there's no point in just having a bunch of headlines if you can't actually deliver. and people can see through it. i actually deliver. and people can see throu:h it. , , actually deliver. and people can see throu:h it. ,, ., �* ., through it. i guess what i'm asking is, through it. i guess what i'm asking is. version — through it. i guess what i'm asking is. version of _ through it. i guess what i'm asking is, version of the _ through it. i guess what i'm asking is, version of the question - through it. i guess what i'm asking is, version of the question i - through it. i guess what i'm asking is, version of the question i hear. is, version of the question i hear coming often from people in the labour party who like their leaders, un keir starmer, but they've got a bit of a worry that your, as it were, a bit too theresa may and not enough borisjohnson, crudely put, composite, decent, losers. that's the worry they have got. have they got the point? in the worry they have got. have they got the point?—
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got the point? in the end if we are not credible _ got the point? in the end if we are not credible and _ got the point? in the end if we are not credible and we _ got the point? in the end if we are not credible and we are _ got the point? in the end if we are not credible and we are not - got the point? in the end if we are i not credible and we are not serious, i think for labour, we don't win. but then, beyond that, you've got to have the optimism, the excitement. here's the thing is, here's the way in which we want to change the country. you know, some of that is practical policies like wooden full tax, but some of it is also about the kind of vision of a future where we are stronger if we stand together thanif we are stronger if we stand together than if we leave each other to sink or swim alone. we still believe, actually, we are the party of the many and not the few, as well. when ou ran many and not the few, as well. when you ran against _ many and not the few, as well. when you ran against jeremy _ many and not the few, as well. when you ran against jeremy corbyn - many and not the few, as well. when you ran against jeremy corbyn to be you ran againstjeremy corbyn to be leader, you said, look me in the eye, do you want to be a labour prime minister? it's actually why ip. is it still? i prime minister? it's actually why |p. is it still?— ip. is it still? i want to do stuff. you know- -- — ip. is it still? i want to do stuff. you know... and _ ip. is it still? i want to do stuff. you know... and you _ ip. is it still? i want to do stuff. you know... and you can - ip. is it still? i want to do stuff. you know... and you can do - |p. is it still? | want to do stuff. | you know... and you can do stuff ip. is it still? | want to do stuff. - you know... and you can do stuff is a local mp. so, you know, we are able to do stuff, to get investment in our town centres, we are able to do stuff to try and solve individual problems and things like that. but you know, to be able to change things on a grander scale, to stop kids across the countryjust
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slipping into poverty... i think it's about getting a labour government, isn't it? , , government, isn't it? maybe. maybe one da . government, isn't it? maybe. maybe one day- as — government, isn't it? maybe. maybe one day. as well _ government, isn't it? maybe. maybe one day. as well as _ government, isn't it? maybe. maybe one day. as well as always, - government, isn't it? maybe. maybe one day. as well as always, you're i one day. as well as always, you're occasionally allowed a holiday! and what i've heard about the ed balls yvette cooper holidays, i can't decide, if i was one of your kids, if i would think this was heaven or hell. the sound of music trip. that was absolutely _ hell. the sound of music trip. twat was absolutely great fun. you know that scene in the sound of music where they sing doe a deer in their old on the bikes along the long road, we are in cycling along that road, we are in cycling along that road, we are in cycling along that road, we had a beatbox and a tour guide and the beatbox playing out the sound of music songs and singing as we went! and i got this idea we should wear curtain material like they do in the film. $5 should wear curtain material like they do in the film.— should wear curtain material like i they do in the film._ we they do in the film. as you do! we should no they do in the film. as you do! we should go full— they do in the film. as you do! we should go full on. _ they do in the film. as you do! we should go full on. and _ they do in the film. as you do! we should go full on. and so - they do in the film. as you do! we should go full on. and so i - they do in the film. as you do! we should go full on. and so i got - they do in the film. as you do! we l should go full on. and so i got some damask curtain material and some lederhosen things... and of course
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we left it to the last minute so we ended up on the train from munich to salzburg, me getting... the other parents were travelling in the sun to conveyor belt of lederhosen! i thought, nobody knows us! but then the people opposite suddenly turned to ad and set in this strong west midlands accent, i do hope you come back into politics one day! $5 he back into politics one day! as he is dressed in some _ back into politics one day! as he is dressed in some curtains! - back into politics one day! as he is dressed in some curtains! as - back into politics one day! as he is dressed in some curtains! as he i back into politics one day! as he is dressed in some curtains! as he isj dressed in some curtains! as he is t in: on dressed in some curtains! as he is trying on curtain — dressed in some curtains! as he is trying on curtain material! - trying on curtain material! listening to yvette cooper reminisce about making those costumes from curtain material as she cycled towards the home of the sound of music, may make it difficult to realise that she essentially believes that it is seriousness that will get labour back into power again. my hunch is that some of her supporters, some of the parties, might wish they so a little bit more of that side of her and keir
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starmer. in the future. that's it from this edition of political thinking. thanks for watching. good evening. sunday is looking relatively straightforward in terms of the weather. the best of the sunshine will be in england and wales but there will be a few isolated showers further north and west, but more importantly lighter winds in comparison to saturday's weather. so, over the next two hours we still have the strong winds, driving in some showers over western scotland and the far north of northern ireland. clearer skies elsewhere but a relatively mild start to sunday morning so that is where the best of the sunshine is likely to be first thing and generally through the day but even so, with lighter winds and fewer showers not everywhere in scotland and northern ireland will see some rain and with the sunnier moments coming through it will be a bit warmer than saturday.
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highs of 17 in the far north and 22 in the south—east corner. we do it all again as we move into monday, dry, setted and sunny, despite a few showers continuing into the far north—west. and again, those temperatures in the low 20s. enjoy.
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this is bbc news with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. as fighting intensifies in ukraine, officials warn their army is running out of ammunition. we ask why western—made arms are taking so much time to reach the front line. providing very sophisticated, very much computer intensive gps aided systems that are much, much more efficient than the russians have, but we still have to get it there. hundreds of marches are taking place in the us to push for reform of gun laws — in the wake of another spate of mass shootings. officials for prince charles have insisted that he is politically neutral after reports of controversial remarks about the uk government's asylum policy.

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