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tv   Fareed Zakaria GPS  CNN  July 10, 2011 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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painful andcomplicated, but these americans served our nation bravely. they didn't die because they were week. the vie chief of staff called it a monumental atta aal event. the vast majority of sue sides occur outside the zones. thank you for watching "state of the union." up next for our viewers here in the u.s., "fareeda kariya gps." welcome to all our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. first up. it seems that things are seen differently on two sides of the atlantic ocean. we have a great transoceanic panel to talk about that and much more.
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bernard-henri levy, simon schama, and others. and why hollywood can't make much money in china. we'll explain. and six of the ten fastest grows economies, which continent has the world's newest nation? first, here's my take. i've been hearing a lot of criticism recently that president obama doesn't have a consistent policy toward the arab spring, but i wanted to ask, should he? there are vast differences between the circumstances on the grand in tunisia, egypt, libya, saudi arabia, between american interests in those countries and our capacity to influence events there. some places are more stable, the regimes are more reformist, others are not. should we have a one size fits all foreign policy? take the case saudi arabia. will the administration to start clamoring for rejim change in riyadh, and would that encourage
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large-scale protests and instability within the kingdom, the price of oil would skyrocket. meanwhile, the saudi regime which has legitimacy, power and cash would likely endure, but likely would be enraged at washington. what exactly would a more consistent policy achieve? a humanitarian crisis that could be averted. in addition, the arab league, the united nations, and skee european allies all urged international action. few of these conditions apply in syria, where the regime is more firmly in control and more brutal. while i wish president obama would voice his preference that president al asaid should resign, it is worth noting that the same critics who want obama to save us, also criticize him
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for calling for moammar gadhafi's ouster when he doesn't have the means to make it happen, or perhaps they want us to interview in syria as well, which would mean we would be engaged in four wars, but at least we would be consistent. in the early wars of the cold war, dean atchison was asked by a congressman why the united states was trying to militarily defeat communist forces in greece, but be much more cautious in china. at i son's reply was, they were two different countries, i am not in the slightest bit worries because you can say so-and-so about greece, why isn't that true about china? i will be polite, i will be patient, and i will try to explain why greece is not china. it's still true, greece is not china. let's get started.
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so in light of the dominique strauss-kahn case we wanted to explore how different or laws and morals are different than europe. for us to talk about it, a terrific panel from both sides of the pond. across the atlantic in nice, france, is french philosopher bernard-henri levy. sitting with me but hailing from the united kingdom is columbia university's simon schama, and bret stephens is "wall street journal's" foreign affairs columnist, and chrystia freeland is at thomson roidters. bernard, you have been a prominent participant in the whole affair of dsk. there's a column in "new york times," in which he says, describing your writings on these issues -- to judge
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business his recent writing bernard-henri levy prefers to live in a country where elites are rarely held to account, where crimes against women are routinely excused with a wink and a nod, and where people without money or status are treated line the nonentities that the french moneyed class believe they are. i'd rather live here. you are in nice and happy to be there, but what would you say to this columnist? >> what i tell him, first off, that i love america. i so often explain that anti-americanism is a sort of form of fascism, and that i hate sometimes the way in which america is cartooned, and sometimes by itself. the image of the justice which was given in the first days of
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this affair was a cartoon image. it was not america, the judicial system which praised so highly and which he exhibited as the model for the whole world. for somebody like me who likes america as much as france, it was heartbreaking. when i said that, i did not defend my friend dominique strauss-kahn. i defend the idea which i have of justice in general and of american justice in particular. >> but let me ask you, again nocera says i don't see what he did wrong. the quick decision made a lot of sense, then as the victim's credibility crumbled, advance -- the district attorney -- didn't pretend he still had a slam
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sung, he acknowledged the problem. >> what he did bad was to consider from the very first minute without having heard the world, the void of dominique strauss-kahn that he was a guilty one. what he did run was offer him to the whole world as a sort of beast, as a sort of perv, as a sort of criminal by essence and substance f. the jail, the shame, the public humiliation, the leaks organized to the tabloid press, these the district attorney did it badly. what he does now, which is to leave the two parties free and to fact check, to double cross the information, to try to understand what the really
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happened in this -- this is right, and if there has been a crime, if there has been a rape oar an attempt of rape, it is a big crime, and it will have to be punished. >> simon schama, in his column at "the daily beast" he said this is like -- you wrote a book on the french revolution. >> i can understand bernard's passion, but as you know, the guillotine was the conclusion of that. that's not exactly what happened to dominique strauss-kahn. what i wanted to say to bernard and the discussion is that much of what he says i share, but i think it boils down to this kind of very lurid relationship between the tap bloid press and the nature of criminal prosecution, spec tar lay. criminal prosecution or criminal
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appear hensbloid press and the nature of criminal prosecution, spec tar lay. criminal prosecution or criminal appear hence -- there's something that assumes it not to be problematic, actually, to make a show before any guilt is proven. >> you have this tendency, also in france, and it was even more severe and as severe concerning france and america, you have this tendency to mix show and justice. when you show the lawyer of the maid expressing himself, having a sort of press conference on the stairs of the court and describing in such a graphic way the most intimate parts of the body of hi client, this was not only graphic. it was pornographic. might be there was rape, maybe -- we'll say, but the
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lawyer this day sort of committed a symbolic rape. you cannot speak of a woman in such a rude way, coming again to the parts of the body and so on, this way of given a theater show for all the press all over the world. this was really problematic. >> none of you have mentioned something -- the thing that actually angered me the most about how dominique strauss-kahn was treated and mostly the media treatment, which i think is quite characteristic of europe, which is the confusion of promise skewity with sexual assault. what i really didn't like was in the early scores of dominique strauss-kahn, people talking about, he's had affairs. i don't think that's relevant. i think it's so important for women and feminists to take a very firm stand on saying a
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person's personal sexual ethics have no bearing whatsoever on wrongdoing and on criminal activity. why this is so important is it used to be the case we would say it wasn't possible for a woman to be raped or assaulted if she was loose or had affairs or slept around, and equally just because a man has affairs doesn't mean we should assume he's more likely to rape someone. >> but you wrote, he's a sleaze and probably didn't? >> no, i didn't. >> what did you say? >> i was inclined to think that and i reapproached myself. there's a lot of information to testify to that, which is not in dispute, including sleeping with chambermaids in new york city hotels and his affair for which he was reprimanded for the imf appeared a long trail of stories, but chrystia is entirely right.
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being a sleaze is not the same as being a criminal. our problem here, which i think is universal, not sxwrus an american one, we like or news to have the quality of a parable. whatever your persuasion, if you were a feminist of a certain point of view, as chrystia says, this is a guy that's a sexual rogue, hence must be a rapist. if you had a right of center persuasion, you didn't like strauss-kahn, or french socialists or the lending policies of the imf, there was a sense of delight this guy had been if you would super his first-class seat and sent to rikers island in the best american tradition. it all came together to convict the man before anyone -- most of us, including myself, had ask some common-sense questions, not the least of which does this make sense for him to do? and were the details known to us
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merely from the very beginning of the trial, did they correspond to the idea that a sexual assault had actually taken place? i think it happens more in the case of dsk. i think it's pervasive how we make drp there are aneck dose, and we suggested this led inescapably to a conclusion. we forget that stories in life and in history tend to be crooked. hold that thought, bret. we're going to leave the dsk business, but with one footnote rape charges are still spending. when we come back, we'll talk about much more.
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we are back, talking about everything other than dominique strauss-kahn, since we did that for the last segment with bernard-henri levy from france,
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simon schama, bret stephens and chrystia freeland. bernard, what the the mood in europe with regard to greece. is there a sense this is one more week of crisis and they will somehow muddle along or is there a more fundamental fear to put it blently, that the european project is falling apart? >> i think that is the risk and concern, of course. we had the feeling, us europeans that we could sleep, and during our sleep europe was flourishing and blooming. we're discovering that this is not the case, europe might not be in the sense of history, that europe might destroy itself as much as build itself. we are discovering that it is afraid and fragile project. it does not mean it's in the process of being broken, but it
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means that if we don't act quickly and strongly probably we will go back 50 years and backwards. it would be very bad for the free world, including, of course, america. >> chrystia, you understand the finances better than most. i understand the politics. the math doesn't add up at some level. greece simply cannot pay back its loans. what's going to happen? >> i think part of the problem is you have had the nationalization of the mistakes of french and german banks. >> who loaned greeks money? >> who made a huge mistake in lending the greek government money, but now you're having that debt being backstopped. the problem is greece is a small country. the reason the markets keep rejecting the solution, even if the solution works, the result
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is the economy getting weaker and weaker. >> do you think the greeks are correct to riot? >> i was going to say, they get this. they're saying we do not want or economy, our children, the next 10, 15 years to be doomed to subspar growth. that, you know, if there isn't a new solution, that's the result of a current deal. >> i'm not so sure i support the rioting in the streets. think you're right, the austerity is toxic for the future, but the greeks are protesting a set of social protections, which are completely out of step with what their country can afford and with any notion of what a growing economy can reasonably meet. hugely bloated public sector, unions, entitlements, retirement ages that kick in very early and last lifetimes and often beyond lifetimes, i think europe has a growth problem.
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it has a public sector/union problem. if these problems aren't addressed in places like spain, fran or even now in germany despite the growth they have enjoyed, they're going to be in terrible -- in terrible straits. that's the real danger to the european project, economic growth, pure and simple. >> ultimately the greeks are in a vanguard of people that have been placed in a imperial receivership, and we shouldn't underestimate it, the profound wounds to the dignity of self-esteem of an entire people when that happens can have correspondingly dramatic and alarming nationalist consequences. >> i want to ask bret something, because you want something about the all terrible measures backfiring in greece, because they are cutting spending, they're resulting in slower
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growth causing more debt problems. you can imagine where this is going. >> you're already mistaken, but go ahead. >> when an economy is fragile, if you cut a lot of spending, you're going to turn this economy into a downward spiral? >> it's the raising taxes which is problematic. >> but the tightening. they don't have the same effect. they take money out of the economy. yet what the republican party wants to do with the american economy is cut $4 trillion out of the spending. won't that put the united states in a similar situation where the economy starts contracting? >> what greece needs is a combination of a pro-growth agenda unless social government and -- bloat. so iism not sure where that doesn't jibe with right of center thinking is saying here in the united states. i mean, look, the problem with austerity, pure and simple, which doesn't have a
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corresponding growth component is that it creates a -- it doesn't solve your basic economic issues. so how do the greeks get their growth back? i mean, when did they last have it? >> i want to go to libya, bernard, you have many contacts in libya, and i've been active there. does the libyan opposition feel hopeful? there are some signs they are moving closer to tripoli, standing up in more impressive ways, that they're getting aid, but how do they feel? >> i think they feel more optimistic than a few weeks ago. you know, freedom takes time. we all know that in europe and america. freedom, democracy takes time. it took a few weeks. it took 100 days for these people who never had a weapon in
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their hand to transform themselves in an operative and executive army. at the beginning, they had -- i saw them. i was in misrata a knew weeks ago. at the beginning they were without discipline, without training, but with bravery and courage. now this army is formed, and in misrata, what i saw which was so impressive, and which is maybe unprecedented in modern history, is an army of civilians kicking out of the city, driving out of the city 100 or 150 tanks. they did that more or less without -- or before the help of national and of the french and english helicopters. this is really amazinamazing. that is why i believe this army of civilians in misrata joined
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with the army of the two armies which are probably able today to walk to tripoli in the next weeks, maybe a little more, but my feeling from the ground of which i am back since a few, ten days, my feeling is you have today two real arabic armies which are able to liberate and to free tripoli. >> simon, what do you think? >> well, it's very heartening to hear bernard deliver that report. that's my hope. i think in the next few days congress is going to debate the authorization to continue forces in libya, american participation in the nato operation. i would be aghast in an isolationist move took hold in either party, as a matter of fact. i'm someone who has no regrets about the operation.
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i certainly hope we don't falter down. >> a stunning and depressing opponents by a lot of leading republicans who, out of some combination of political tunism and new moof of isolationism can't come to the perfect obvious conclusion that gadhafi has been the enemy of the united states for years, that we used to hate him at least when reagan was bombingtropily and benghazi and our interests are in -- rather than karping at the president and raising the war powers act, which is something that republicans, including newt gingrich, tried to get rid of 15, 20 years ago. so i'm worried about the thinking of the republican party when it comes to our broader engagement with the wider world and when it comes to the application of force. >> and the thing that i think is so important to remember is a
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democratic revolution, no matter what, is great. a couple weeks ago george thorough gave a speech. talking about the arab spring, he said 1936 in hungary was a failure at the time, and i think you have to have that longer-term view. chrystia, stephen, simon, and bernard-henri levy, thank you very much. we will be back. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates.
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now for our "what in the world" segment. it is the perfect summer blockbuster for audiences around the world. action packed and not too taxing on the brain. the new "transformers" movie broke the record for july 4th tickets sales in the u.s. and it's been smashing records in many of the 110 countries around the world where it's showing. it's already made half a billion dollars worldwide. but there's one country that it's not playing in -- china.
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china doesn't want its people to see transformers 3, at least not yet. can you bl elf it in beijing has imposed a moratorium on new foreign films. for almost a month, no new blockbusters produced outside china have been released in china. why? instead of transformers or harry potter, beijing really wants its people to watch something else, something quite different. the beginning of the great revival released last month, an extravagantly produced state sponsored propaganda movie, which cost a fortune to make by chinese standards. the film claims to have a cost of more than 100 top chinese actors playing an array of historical characters. among them chairman mao and
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while that might lieu in female all the yens, the real message isn't about love, but about politics. the film is a -- released to honor the 90th anniversary of the party's founding. it describes the influence as going down a path of ethnic independence, liberation, national wealth and strength. no mention of the great leap forward, the famine, the cultural revolution, or of course tiananmen square. the chinese communist party has made sure this movie will be seen by its people. it's released beginling of the great revival in more than 6,000 theaters accompanied with massive publicity. the government expects to to make wen over $spoke million twice as much as "the founding of the republic." it's also gotten to major corporations to rent out theaters and give employees tickets. watching the film is mandatory
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for school children and so on. what do people think of the movie? well, the ratings on chinese web sites have mysteriously been disabled, but if is any indicator, the film scored a 2 out of 10 rating chin's control over its movie industry actually raises much larger issues. studio heads in los angeles salivate over the thought of china's 1.3 billion citizens turning into holy wid film buffs. there's great interest in going to movies in china. they're said to be building two new theaters are day, but the chinese government is not allow market forces to determine who watches what movies. see, even when there's no blackout or moratorium, china allows only a limited number of foreign films in its theaters every year, about 20, and even thoughs subject to strict
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censorship. and, of course, there is massive piracy of dvds, which the chinese government does little to prevent. the attitude is troubling, because it points in two directions. first beijing appears to be adopting a policy that favors log companies over international ones. businessmen from around the world in various industries have been complaining about said practices, many of which are potential violations of free trade. second, beijing seems to be turning in a nationalist direction. consciously promoting propaganda, keeping out foreign influences, all to create greater solidarity at home and legitimacy for the communist party. these are worrying tendencies
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which would call friction between china and the world, a reversal of china's outward orientation over the last three decades, a orientation that's powered china's rise to wealth and prosperity, but there is some good news. i like one strategy that china is employing to promote its own movies. >> 38 -- >> you've probably hard of kung fu panda. the sequel is out around the world, as every parent knows, and doing especially well in china. beijing is hoping to counter hollywood's success with the release this month of its own animated action flick. ♪ legend of a rabbit, the film is about a kung fu bunny, who takes on a big mean bad enemy. the enemy is a panda. that's a fair fight, and may the
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best animal win. add we'll be right back. we cover planes that crash, and i'm afraid that in that kind of reporting, we miss a lot of the background success in so much of africa. [ bird chirping ] ♪ [ doug ] i got to figure this out.
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i'm candy crowley. here are today's top stories. japan was hit by an earthquake this morning off its northern coast, prompting tsunami advisories that were eventually canceled. the 7.19 magnitude quake is believed to be an aftershock from march's devastating earthquake. so far no immediate reports of injuries or damage in this quake. the top military adviser in the united states told an audience in beijing today that china has, quote, arrived as a
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world power. joint chiefs chairman admiral mike mullen was speaking in -- best-selling newspaper released its final edition this morning amid folk hacking and bribery allegations. in the issue, "news of the world" apologized for its, quote, appalling wrongdoing. police are conducting two separate investigations into the actions of the newspaper's former staffers. those are your top stories. now back to fareed zakaria gps. put your thinks caps on for a moment. which continent has 6 of the 10 largest growing economies? which continent has the world's newest nation? you said asia, that's wrong. which continent has seven of the
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top ten failed states in the world. ? the continent, of course, is afri africa. that's what i want to talk to my two terrific guests about. nicholas kristof and peter godwin. both are just back from africa. peter has a new book out called "the fear." you're back from a trip where you take a college student across africa. is it fair to say for the first time -- there's always been failed states that tended to be from africa, but is it fair to say you see an africa on the move, and that there's a spirit of optimism? >> there's definitely a sense of growth, and i think more people are waking up to that. part of it is we're seeing more cunning that are success stories.
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one of the problems i think we have in journalism is that we, you know, we cover planes that crash, so we covered those failed states as problems. i'm afraid that in that kind of reporting we miss a lot of the background success in so much of africa. >> do you think -- we'll get to zimbabwe? a second, but do you think it looks at what's going on in africa, this stirring, and feel even more beknighted -- i could believe that africa is finally taking off and once the breadbasket of africa, we're totally dysfunctional? >> i think think look at the arab spring and think ruefully why not us? in a sense they tried it in 2000 action and has been try iing ev since. the success in these countries, tunisia, egypt, has depended on the reaction of security forces,
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and zimbabwe, you won't be able to put a primrose down the barrel of a soldier's gun, because it will meet a bullet on the way out. so yes, i think there's some frustration that their peace process seems to be stalled. >> but when you talk about the optimism, it was mostly economic optimist. is it also political? >> it's also political. i think about half of the continent now has some form of quasi democratic elections. which is a huge step up. so you have that political advance, an economic advance and huge improvement in health care, in nutrition, and in mortality. >> peter, there will be 27 elections in africa this year. are most of them phony? >> it's said it's not who votes,
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but who counts the votes. i think across the spectrum, many of imperfect, but what you need to look at is where incumbents lose. that's still relatively rare. that's because you know you've had some sort of -- and in zimbab zimbabwe's case that didn't -- and having witnessed the local election, it was real democracy at work. it's astonishing, and for me particularly from zimbabwe, it's something to celebrate. >> you talk to businessmen and they've gotten very interested in africa. when i was in kenya, nigeria there's a new class of businessmen, young, educated. they seem to be stirring things up. >> and they're pushing on issues
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like corruption. there's real outrage that does seem to be creating mod zest steps better. and just, you know, we're -- on my first trip to africa, i backpacked across the continent. what i found was river blindness, these elderly or middle-aged people who have been blind, and it left me with a bad taste for west africa. this time, you go around, you just don't see that nearly to the same degree, because river blindness has been almost conquered. there's so many other diseases like that. you get a sense of, if you have a long enough time frame of dramatic change. we're going to talk more about africa when we come back, and specifically the possibility of a war of huge international crisis with south sudan. will it happen? we'll come back.
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the world has just welcomed a new country into its fold, a country called south sudan, the first new country that's been created in africa since 1993. what does the future hold for it? we're back with nicholas kristof of "new york times" and peet are godwin, both just back from the continent. peter, was there concern when you were talking to people in south africa whether there might be a war in sudan? >> yes, i think there has been a lot of concern. the truth is many of the issues that still need to be resolved have simply been put off until after -- so there are a bunch of issue that is have been put to one side. i do think, though, and it's
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different to keep tum. there are seven different rebel groups in the south so never mind north/south. there's so much to figure out. but at the end of the day, the truth is about 75% of the oil reserves, which the south is overwhelmably reliant on, are in the south, but all the pipelines go through the north. i think at the end of the days, neither north or south has got an appetite to actually go towards it. at least that's my hope. >> do you think it's been a mistake to indict bashir, the president of sudan? there's an argument that goes the root of this problem is the government of sudan, which really seems to be determined to do whatever it can to hold on to as much oil revenues, by insiding bashir, you give him no exit strategy. he knows the minute he leaves the office of the presidency,
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he'll probably end up in the hague in a war crimes trial. >> i can see the argument that it makes it more difficult for him to retire politely someplace else, but he has a long history of extraordinarily nasty things and i don't think it worsened his behavior. i also think there is something to be said for creating norms of how leaders behave a and creating some accountability, so they know there may be consequences. so on balance, i think it was the right move albeit, probably made it more difficult to deal with sudan right now. >> would you like to see robert mugabe insided? >> i think in the short term, it can create a lure of unintended
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consequences. but i think we're trying to create a new culture, where you say you're not immune. it doesn't matter whether your local enemies give you amnesty or whatever. this is something you can run, but can't hide. in the medium and long term, i think that's a goal worth going for t we have seen that after the appalling violence where there was torture on an industrial scale. everyone i have spoken to, prosecutors, investigators at the u.n. and icc pretty much agree what happened in zimbabwe rose to the level of a crime against humanity, nevertheless nothing has happened. you can't get it through the security council, zimbabwe is not a signator, so there are a host of problems, and i think there's a big sensitivity at the icc itself, that it doesn't
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start to look like a club that indiets black politicians or leaders. they're very sensitive about that at the moment, too. >> do you think that one of the things that has head africa back or put it under where you could imagine more progress, if you had a couple big role model. nigeria has traditionally been seen as a mess. i think things are modestly improving, but south africa is the great disappointment in a sense. post-mandela it has not played a leadership role in pushing progressive change. >> i think one of the great reasons for africa being on the hold has been bad governance. bad government is contagious. it leads from one country to the
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next. in asia, we saw how the success of a few small economies then spread and influenced china, in turn which influenced india, which may be influencing pakistan. that same pattern may be beginning to happen in africa, as we have some real success stories, and others countries say, if rwanda can do it, if ghana can do it, why can't we? >> we'll have to leave it at that. thank you very much. we will be right back. woman: saving for our child's college fund was getting expensive. man: yes it was. so to save some money, we taught our 5 year old how to dunk. woman: scholarship! woman: honey go get him. anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.
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can a day pulled the last of its troops out of afghanistan this week. that brings us to our question
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of the week -- how many nations still have combat troops in afghanistan as part of the international security assist tansz force? is it 6, 16, 26 or 46? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. make sure you go to for ten more question and make sure you check out the global public square don't forget, you can also follow us on twitter and facebook. this week's "book of the week" is the "the last narco." it takes you deep into the life. now that bin laden is dead, this mexican drug kingpin is the number one most ban wanted man in the world, also on "forbes" list of the world's top
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billionaires. it's a fascinating look at the man. very well written. we often think or politicians are always bickering. it might make you feel better to look at the case of australia, where it seems lawmakers have been literally been fighting like cats and dogs. listen to this. >> if i can finish now. >> why don't you meow when a woman does that. >> yes. what you hear there a meow, a senator from tars mania trying to interrupt a statement by australia's first openly gay cabinet member penny wong. as you can see she gave her own back. >> the blokes are allowed to yell, but if a woman is speaking, you make that kind of comment. >> it's a rash