tv Book Discussion on Ronald Reagan CSPAN August 17, 2016 9:51pm-10:53pm EDT
common sense. common sense tells anyone that the guardsmen called to duty at kent state was trained in crowd control and in the 24 minutes that preceded shootings used the wrong tools complete a mission. that the guard was there as all resulted in an early-morning call that never should be made to students behave poorly in some cases criminally in downtown kent on the night of friday, may 1. way too much beer was publicly just as much for a bigger reason the windows never should have been smashed. this was a charge moment in american history. the air was fraught with rumors of wars to calm good weather for the insult in other regards he reacted when he found the office of ohio governor jim rhodes in the wee hours of saturday morning and saw an opening he could run through all the way to the u.s. senate.
a man trailing badly in the polls at all that is background noise ultimately to the kent state shootings in the larger horror of vietnam. people died who should not have on both fronts. anti-spaces opened that the once been full and both experienced lifetime scars. here's a final thought, the best thing that could happen for those who still carried the kent state shootings were the vietnam war close to their hearts is to get what beyond who did what when. in the 20 anniversary janice wax so talked about the speaker. tour my heart out she said i will never forget and i'd think they are really important lessons in this but if there is no forgiveness there is no healing and murder goes on
forever. and that's my talk. thank you for coming. [applause] i need to listen to you. please. [inaudible] >> i'm sorry, it's in the book. they were in akron. he shot a guy come is there any truth to that. >> there is a photographer he was taken at one point as a sniper in the sniper, did materialize. there was a guy who had a tape recorder sitting on his
windowsill in what is now the famous tape which if you listen to it a certain way you can pick up for bang, bang, bang, bang seven seconds before the action shooting. that could be out in what you call and the second man on the grassy knoll. the guy on the grassy knoll in the story in a way. i don't think, i think that's secondary. i think it precedes the shooting by so much that it doesn't comport with anything anybody says. i think the shooting was not caused by sniper fire. yes maam. >> i had two children in elementary school at the old university school and i went to pick them up and was told i couldn't take them out because there were snipers on the roof
and i took them anyway and we literally ran out like this to get in the car to go home. >> there were couple of kids that tell stories. one girl 10 or 11 years old tells of getting on her bus, the elementary school bus and she said the big guy gets on with a baseball bat and they tell them to lie on the floor. there are a lot of stories like that, terrifying stories. there were a lot of rumors sweeping. maid heard some of them to the students were going to attack. >> we were afraid of the water being contaminated so i guarded that. >> all night at the present time and there were a couple of guards. there was a neighbor they came
out in the morning and gave us coffee per day also guarded, i forget that we were all over. >> people forget there were over 1000 guardsmen. a lot of those never got on campus and a lot of them, kent was under marshall law too. it reminded me of a story, very prominent rumor that they were going to spike the water supply with lsd. >> just a couple of comments. terry norman leno was an fbi informant. and in terms of that one of the things i was wondering about in your research if he looked at the investigations of kent state in 1969 and would be willing to talk about you know these, many
of these rumors that talk about are very similar to the tactics used in colintelpro. i wonder what you think of the governments involvement and just general leading to an atmosphere of distrust in the community prior to that. you talk a lot about it. >> the government i think and let's remember that times. they had set the table for this so her rant page on friday night the storyline was not without support. there was a lot of bad stuff going on. in a way to think i do say in the book book that in a way what happened was inevitable and utterly preventable. it was inevitable because all that sort of stuff we were
talking about it all comes together as one spot in northeast ohio and this one moment admit 1970 but at every step of the way, it's utterly preventable. everybody could have made a different set of decisions. one of the storylines is it keeps getting back to nixon that there was some sort of nixon hoover plot to this whole thing. actually bob halderman eventually would say he thought kent state unhinged nixon sufficiently to so it led to the creation of -- because hoover couldn't find the outside agitator the weatherman that he has sure had gotten in and they lost faith in hoover so we formed his own teleprogram. the plumbers who take care of the work but that's a good point. i'm sorry, over here. anybody else?
>> john dean in his book says he thought kent state in retrospect was the end of the nixon administration. that was the beginning of it and the other thing, friday night and i wasn't there i almost replicate that at most state university towns that the police went in and through bunch of college students they could all buy beer, they just threw them out of the bars and that was a recipe for disaster. it was senseless stupidity. >> there were four students who had been released from the county jail just a couple of days earlier so now sts was back on the loose. >> the other thing is the national guard kind of symbolically admitted that they had messed up because two days later, thick as two days later dell corso testified in
washington that there is a sniper on the ref which is really insane. someone shooting from the roof so you shoot people on the ground. >> it made no sense and wonder the most heartbreaking documents in this whole thing after action reports by canterbury and the last question on it was problems encountered and lessons learned and he says, none. i don't know it just hit me when i read it. i was struck that affected there were 67 shots fired, four students killed. how many when did? >> nine. >> so that's only 13. you would think with the crowd being as close as they were that there would have been a lot more fidelity is. >> there were some that were
shot in the air and shot at the ground that a guy e-mailed me four days ago who had been in the guard they are and i can't think of his name off the top of my head. he said two weeks later they were doing target practice and they came in and he said if you guys would have been that good at kent state we could have killed 40. all the gardens were horrified and didn't know what to say and they just sort of looked at the floor. you hear these things and it's a heartbreaking story for the people who -- generational divides. a guy who still teaches at kent state told me five days afterwards a kid came back to his house and everybody had sent sent -- been said when the campus was closed. his parents and what are you
doing at the set i went home and my parents were waiting by the door and they shouted through the mail slot we never want to see you again. there were a lot of stories like that and there is just a generational divide. such a horrible thing. yes, please. >> to you think this sets the stage iv a general disdainful look and victimizing of the students that were protesting authority that has trickled down to art domestic forces today lacks do you know there was an actual student shot by campus police dead because he got smart mouth? campus police wanted him to change his parking space or something and he started to lip off to him. look it up on the internet. it's a very recent occurrence. >> no, i missed that. >> did you happen to hear about the one who was paced by campus
police while he attended a lecture by i believe it was, oh gosh who is the guy that is vice president and out? joe biden was talking on campus and the student got up and started to ask him some hard questions like young people are supposed to do to keep the older generation aware of what's going on and the campus police started to approach him and told him to leave and he refused. we whipped out a taser. >> what i do think is, think the military response, one of the lessons from kent state is there is too much firepower brought to the job and the firepower itself, i know you want to protect yourself. there's too much firepower and the firepower turned the demonstration from the vietnam war to the purveyors of the
firepower itself creates. >> do you think campus police should be armed? >> you know, i can answer that and i'm no expert on the subject. >> if you want to follow up this is a commercial for the visitor center in taylor hall. it's open from 9:00 to 5:00 monday through friday and i strongly recommend it. you can do about a one hour. take drifted telling of the may 4 story. it's in taylor hall and there is parking particular in the summer could extort and early well done. >> i graduated in 1977 so i was long gone by may of 1970 but i do remember because i lived in johnson hall in 1964 and 65. the campus day parade which was always the first weekend of may also dormitories and the fraternities and sororities they
had stuff going on and there was a regatta at twin lakes etc., etc., songfest. there was a guy in my dorm by the name of doc edwards who who was a organizer of the group called the canned committee to end the war in vietnam and they marched in the campus day parade , now what is called 59 but was then around five east main street. it was a preyed upon all the way downtown. it was a big festival. i also knew tony walsh and these guys were there before this confrontation so this was the original concerns about the escalation of vietnam. when johnson took over he suddenly escalated and by 66 we had 500,000, half a million men in vietnam. the events of vietnam in that period from 65 to 70 by frank
dramatically frame what led up to this event. it was a loss of innocence. we lost john kennedy in 63 and martin luther king in april of 68 and robert kennedy. my brother was called up in the glenville wright in 1968 when cleveland burned because of those events. you have to frame this in the context of other bigger and he mentioned that already. >> was i try to do in the book that i forgot one thing, karl stokes from cleveland had wonderful description of him. he said he looked like a football player turned partition. it's a great description. you have been wonderful and i would be glad to sign books for anyone who would like to have it. thank you very much. [applause]
>> there are actually more white women in places like indianapolis, chicago and they were described in the same derogatory ways as poor blacks who were living in the city and that is part of our history that we don't talk about. we don't want to really face up to the fact of how important it is. >> now sarah baline recalls the volcanic eruption of mt. saint helens in washington on may 18, 1980 which resulted in the deaths of 57 people and $1 billion in damage. the event was hosted by kramerbooks in washington d.c..
with what happens to the people who lived it and those who died. as i said there was a particular commitment to kramerbooks and we are so glad he could be with us tonight. wonderful stories and i'm sarah by the way. i don't know if i introduce myself. bringing up authors to our wonderful local connections. so please join me in welcoming steve olson to kramerbooks. [applause] >> i have never given a talk at kramerbooks before but and really i can hardly begin to tell you how delighted i am to finally be doing this. when my wife vin and i were young newlyweds in the 1980s clinton books was where we came
for date nights and winter days just two of her friends to each other right over there to work now married and live in oregon not too terribly far where -- for a way for relive in seattle. this place has a lot of great memories for me. euros and of mt. saint helens which was in that air on sunday morning, may 18, 1988 was one of those events was so dramatic that for people who have a connection to the northwest who remember where we were when we heard the news. i was working on this book and it was sunday morning and i was coming back from church and i heard on the car radio that it erupted or people would say there is an indication of where we were. i know where i was. i grew up in washington state
but in may of 1980 i was living here in washington d.c. and we were about to get married my wife and i3 weeks away so the anniversary of eruption is a good and avert -- reason for me to member my anniversary is coming up. we got married in rhode island that my grandmother who still lives in a small town right-click, where he grew up was downwind from the volcano. she knew everyone would the interested. i have always figured it was a good thing that i was on the east coast because i was exactly the kind of kid who was interested in science and interested in geology. i was one of those kids who said when the volcano started shaking in 1980 at would have said i really need to go see that. i would have grabbed her friend and we would have would have jumped in the car and headed down my five, turned off on the spirit lake highway and driven
up mt. saint helens to see these small puffs of -- that would come out of the volcano when it first reawakened. if i'd done that on may 17 and if my friend and i had camped on the volcano i wouldn't be here talking to you today. 57 people died from eruption that sunday morning. the majority of them were asphyxiated by ash that some people were blown off ridge tops were swept away in the mudflows. a couple of people were crushed by a tree that fell on them and some people were burned by the hot gases. only three of those 57 were in areas that had a designated as dangerous and two of them had permission to be there. in fact the only person who is breaking the law was the one victim, remember cantankerous 83-year-old harry r. chairman hurt used to leave his lodge
four miles away from the summit down by spirit lake. so those 57 people were too close to an extremely dangerous volcano. where the danger zones to small? was the eruption that's much bigger than what geologists had expected and what can we learn from the tragedies of these 57 deaths and living in a world of geological hazards of those were the questions that inspired me to write this book when i moved to seattle six years ago what i discovered was this amazing interconnected story, a story about politics and money and science but it's also a story about the establishment of the national core and a story of a transcontinental route wrote. it's the story of the united states itself and all can together on that one day this one place in 1980.
so the story began in rock island and one i which is a town on the mississippi river about 150 miles west of chicago. it's so hot in here. do you have a napkin for me? it figures i would come back to washington d.c. on the one hot day in march. this is where a 21-year-old german immigrant moved in 1856 and they took a job at a lumberyard. he had previous jobs in a brewery and on the railroad. he was intelligent and friendly and ambitious andy rose quickly through the ranks of lumberyard. the secret is my readiness to work that i never counted the hours are knocked off until i had finished what i had at hand. he and his brother-in-law, thank you very much. i will pass it around when i am
done with it. within a few years he and his brother-in-law had half a lumberyard in rock island and began to expand it so it first they bought logs that were wrapped to down the mississippi river from the force of wisconsin minnesota and put those in their sawmills. the real money -- we will get back to warehouse or hear. their preview of the rest of the talk. warehouser knew they were money late in buying land and chopping down the trees on that land so he began to buy spans a beautiful white pine in the chippewa river in wisconsin and with the money that he made from chopping down those trees he bought orlando in wisconsin and minnesota. he was an incredible businessman and he was a good lumber man. as one of his business partner
said no other other man in america knows as much about pine as he does. in 1891 warehouser moved his family including his seven children from rock island to st. paul minnesota so he would be near the center of his logging operation which moved up the mississippi as wisconsin became over. there he bought a house next to her to james j. hill who was another remarkable is -- this is meant visionary who was about to see that great rahway in st. paul. if you ever go to st. paul and have a chance to see the james hillhouse it's an amazing monument to the gilded age. it's a wonderful place to visit. so the two men quickly became friends. they were actually very similar and often. >> evenings at each other's houses. warehouser after a life. >> in the woods had a propensity
to sleep early and -- seem like you never slept at all. he'll would be a geisha and some monologue and warehouser would he in the easy chair next to him but it didn't bother hill. the ice hill. the ice like to talk sony to 99 hill faced a major problem. he needed money to pay off a bond issue for the robber but at that point he had way more land than he had money. by that time they control not only the great northern railway but also the northern pacific rahway which ran from duluth minnesota 22, and in taking control of the northern pacific hill gained control of the immense land-grant so this was not property that the federal government gave to the road word as an inducement to build rail lines both the transcontinental and particular person of faith freedom return for building a line from duluth to do, an area
greater than the size of florida. they receive part of its land grant from essentially from portland, oregon to tacoma rushing to between 1870 and 1873 so that's a reliance that parallels i-5 today. and the land-grant extended to 40 miles on either side of the road roads so mt. saint helens is about 35 miles east of i-5 so that's why when the mountain erupted in 1980, the top of the mountain, the top of the volcano was still owned by hill. hun jin ryu third, 1900 so a few days into the new century warehouser and he'll announce one of the largest private land purchases in u.s. history. for $6 an acre warehouser in his business partners bought almost a million acres of timber land in south washington stadium with
that purchase along with a subsequent purchase they make made to fill in the area of the land-grant, warehouser bought almost all the land between what is today i-5 and mt. saint helens. and by the way this was one of the greatest investment than anyone has ever made anywhere after correcting for inflation but in the book that they made $250 for every 1 dollar they invest in the land and that's how valuable the timber was. on march 20 of that year a magnitude 4.2 earthquake beneath mt. saint helens. in the pacific northwest we get plenty of earthquakes but we usually get one or two in things quite doubt that that didn't happen in this case. there were more earthquakes until there were so many that they ran together. you really couldn't tell them apart anymore. at this point falcon knowledges were sure that basically nothing
was happening aboveground. but then the week after the initial earthquake a small crater opened up on the top of mt. saint helens. this was the first sign and these little puffs of ash began to emerge from the crater. so mt. saint helens was last active in 1967 so it had been an active for 123 years and in march of 1980 he came back to life. so the renewed activity was a national sensation. people came not only from that states but from all over the world to see this volcano. the last eruption of a balk and now in the contiguous united states has been a northern california. very few people saw this eruption. it was in a part of the country that was hard to get to. but that was not the case with
mt. saint helens. one day there were 70 aircraft that were circling the mountain and they had to bring in air traffic control to make sure that everybody would not hit each other. at first federal and state officials sought to limit access to the volcano by setting up work locks on the major highways. there was a problem with this roadblock. the immediate came under pressure from people who owned properties or businesses on the other side the road lock and exerted drescher on the officials to move the roadblocks and gradually these roadblocks out closer and closer to the mountains. the bigger problem is that the main roads around mt. saint helens are just a tiny fraction of all the mountains. by 1980 weyerhaeuser have been logging the land between i-5 and and -- for decades in the process the company had grown thousands of miles. anyone who wanted to get close
to the mountains could drive the spirit lake highway in turn often one of these roads and climb up to one of the ridgelines and get a clear view of the mountain, set up a campus stay there for songs you wanted. there was no problem then. by the middle of april officials realize they need a better way of of controlling excess amounts of a ticket for service method here and began drawing lines around the volcano to the first thing they did is they churro line along the ridgeline to the north of volcano and along the eastern edge. they figured if anything came out of the volcano no one would be able to get over those ridgeline is. they had a problem on the west side between the west and the northwest side. they didn't want to expand the line onto weyerhaeuser property because weyerhaeuser was cutting the last of its old trees by the volcano. weyerhaeuser wanted to cut those trees closed on the males and
have these trees 10 feet across, just gigantic trees that were there. so what the government officials did on the west side of the mountain is they simply chew the lines between weyerhaeuser are pretty to the west and the land of the national force to the east. that area they called the red zone. everything inside of that solid line is only law enforcement scientist could go into that area. the problem was that this red zone that came only three miles away from the volcano, so officials jour another line that generally follow the roads, about 10 miles of roads, 10 miles away from the peak. you go in this area which was called the blue zone if you have permission to do it and bloggers and other people work in the area could do it but again was the mountain they decided not to do that because they didn't want to jot into weyerhaeuser
property. would be complicated from the loggers or worker to get permission to go there. there actually was no zone. so about the same time these lines were being drawn something very troubling was happening with the volcano. a bulge began to form on the northern and northwestern flank of the volcano. it seemed to be caused by magna that was pooling underneath the volcano in pushing out the side and this was having that's happening very dramatically. this bulls was growing by 5 feet per day. volcanologists who are studying the volcano did note that we will screw to happen with this. they thought this boat can't keep growing fervor. he would come cascading down the volcano at some point into spirit lake underneath the bulls. the general consensus of the boca knowledges was that there would simply be an avalanche and nothing else would happen.
the front just happened to be on the side of a volcano. that was essentially the situation on the evening of saturday may 17. it was the first clear weekend after a cloudy and rainy spring and that evening about two dozen people were getting ready to spend the night in the area of mt. saint helens. harry truman who ever fees to leave his lodge was getting ready for bed on the edges edge of spirit lake and again about four miles away. inner cabinet couple of miles down the river from spirit lake so they have permission to say the cabin is that they were doing a photographic study the mountains on the deck because they could see the mountains from their deck. although many of the people
around them thought there was a bit of her ruse that they were doing this just so that they could use their cabin but they still got permission to be there on the weekends. the next closest person to the volcano was dave johnson who is keeping watch on the volcano from that ridgeline about five miles north. johnson had never been to this location until the day before the eruption. he was with a colleague who had to go away for the evening, graduate advisers about an educational program. dave was worried about being that close to the volcano. he said nothing has been active with the volcano so i will go there as long as someone can help me the next day. seven miles away from the volcano was a photographer from the colombian newspaper in
vancouver. he was taking photographs for the "national geographic" is part of a project they have been doing in a time-lapse setting up the mountains but that budget was scheduled to conclude after that weekend because something had been happening with the mountain. on the second ridge there was a photographer in vancouver named. black ring. .. reid blackburn. ..
drinking beer and things like that. on the eastern side of the river there were two friends who have been at the ridge line the day before and right before that was a family and his wife lu and they had a 4-year-old daughter bonnie and a 3-year-old daughter. they were taking the girls on their first campaign trip. i will tell you a little bit more about that. on sunday morning may 18 at 5:36
just north of mount saint helens, first of all it expanded and contracted a little bit and something in the mountain gave way there were a couple geologists who have amazing planes and what they saw was a crack appear on the mountain from east to west into the whole side of the mountain started cascading down. it went off to the south to get away from the cloud and then
they turned around and looked at the volcano and this column of ash that was rising up and that's how many people describe it. there was no sound from that volcano. before they could reach spirit lake, this talk ash overtook and absorbed energy so we could have gone 400 or 500 miles. they blew them to smithereens
and then a few seconds later it covered everybody else with about 200 feet. so harry truman, they were dead before they knew what was happening, just. in seconds. dave johnson was watching it approaching and they both had the time to communicate with people. the scientists are studying the volcano as it came toward them they had about a minute or so to look at it. it must have looked like the infoworld to them. when it hit it got them and their vehicles and everything they had.
into the next valley then it covered them with debris and ash and trees. they had been taken out of the vehicle. they never detected any of it. to the west they had time to take a couple of photographs as the last battle was approaching and adjust before he could go anywhere the blast hit the car and blew out the windows and quickly filled with hot ash. so it contained essentially no oxygen and filled up with ash.
i still have a jar brought back from the wedding and it sort of has a taste like chalk come a sort of metallic taste from deep inside the earth. and that must'v must have been e sensation that a lot of people have. it was 9 miles away from the volcano and was completely devastated by the last cloud. as you could imagine, the story is tragic. so just how immense the devastation from the cloud was it not been for trees so if you superimpose a mess it would be
around the nationals park. they were camped on the green river they were from the west and the east so it's sor that'sf the worst of the last. they were having breakfast that morning and he ran out and started taking photographs the cloud kept coming closer. the photographs of the volcano never capture some of the things that the eyewitnesses say that
baseball and for instance the colors of the clouds were filled with green and yellow and churning like an egg beater. it was the most beautiful thing that he had ever seen. so they took shelter nearby and said that the thunder was so loud and continuous they couldn't even hear each other speak. so finally he began to run up and they all began to make their way up the river. the trees are going across the trail. it had fallen across the pathway
and they realized they would have to get across the for us to get back to their car. so very late in the day they knew they were never going to be able to get to the car. they actually slipped a ball that night and when they woke up the next morning they were not feeling bad. so they started making their way back and heard a helicopter overhead and saw what she was wearing and the helicopter decided that they were the last people to be rescued from around mount saint helens but he didn't land in the trees because there was no place for them to land. they brought a small helicopter
and it hovered over an island and the helicopter put a single one on the island and the pilot was very concerned about the helicopter getting overloaded. you can't bring a backpack along. she said there's a baby in it. so he says okay keep the baby. [laughter] succumb at the beginning of the talk i said of the people killed in the eruption of mount saint helens, three of them were outside of the zone and i think of them as the danger zone that was much too close. a tycoon moved next door from st. paul in the last decade of
the century [inaudible] so what do we learn from mount saint helens today there were three lessons but i draw. first we have to take it seriously. we are not that good at predicting now exactly when it volcano is going to iraq so the issue advisories and watches and the warnings can be expensive for the people and businesses and other people that live in the northwest. we have to engage in this and be prepared when that happens.
the second lesson the safety officials learned a lot. the technology makes it much easier to monitor and know what it's going to do. there have been plenty of volcanic since then. the volcano observatory in washington, the scientists there not only of mount saint helens but they have the potential to erupt. it's really quite interesting to read. the third lesson we have to get ready.
and earthquakes we can have and the tsunamis and people elsewhere face plenty of hazards in the 35 years i lived in washington, d.c. before i moved to seattle and even a small tornado they tend to react to the discussions. they are preparing and the better off w we prepared today e better off we are going to be. that's why they decided to write this book when i moved out of their. it's always going to be part of history and it has a lot to teach us about living in one of the most beautiful parts of the
-- [inaudible] this question about why in the book i don't describe what happens exactly i thought that there would be a little overwhelming actually that would be too many. so i wanted to do is describe the people in the area north of the volcano because essentially all those people in that part. by describing the experiences we got a little sense of the experience elsewhere in the volcano. i will describe what happened to some of the other people to try
to get those. they were amazing. they lost navigation on the columbia river which was about 60 miles from mount saint helens. so huge amount amount of debrise down these rivers with the navigation room and the fishing for a few years and the big shifts are probably stuck for a couple of months before they were able to make their way out into the channel could be dredged through the columbia. even after the eruption dealt across the main river that comes off they are still dealing with this issue today.
[inaudible] >> hell did you have the courage to write another book >> one of the things i had to decide because there have been plenty of other books, part of my job was to read the books and talk to everybody that i possibly could so i could sell the story as comprehensively as i could. but in the course of doing that research became across information that hadn't been availablhaven't beenavailable b. for instance after the eruption, the warehouse company and the state were sued by the families of the victim and that case went tthe case wentto trial in 1984 n state. all the records were still on
file in the courthouse and no one had ever seen those before. those records enabled me to fill in a lot of the gaps. everything i tried to do is tell the whole story. i try to go back to the beginning and look at what happened to people. >> [inaudible] >> these were government agencies that put these togeth together. part of the reason for the trial was the belief that there had been a deal to set them where they were.
what i say in this book is between george warehouse or into the governor in washington state thedata center to talk directly. weyerhaeuser was such a powerful economic interests in washington state at that time that the government officials drawing the line were an inconvenience and that was ultimately the root cause of the tragedy that happened. there was a proposal to expand the danger zone at washington state when the volcano erupted. she had been away on saturday.
the extension would have been much more difficult to get that never happened [inaudible] >> a lot of people do worry about it. even before people had realized we live in communities that occur and especially after the eruption of mount saint helens that was the case that had been taken to protect people that are in those hazardous areas. you will see signs that look
like tsunami signs. the same is going to happen. they're making their way down the river valley it took about ten or 15 minutes to escape which is the same situation as the tsunami on the coast. so people are aware of it but it is a hazard and there are complications to happen it's not going to be an easy thing for people to do. [inaudible] >> people will have a warning before it's fair but as i said it's one of the hazards people have to take seriously. there's all kinds of conversations.
in case something like that did happen. >> even in the northwest there had been those bigger than mount saint helens. [inaudible] as much as mount saint helens that would be a tremendous disaster all over the western united states depending on which direction. yellowstone doesn't look like it is going to have a major eruption anytime soon but when it did happen in the past it could devastate the entire eastern half of the united states. it occurred hundreds of thousands of years ago and there is no sign it's about to do it but there have been major volcanic eruptions in the past, and there will continue to be in the future if enacted in the
past several years so it is a matter of time before it erupts again. >> for the current situation, it's run by the service and identified by other agencies. it's an interesting phenomenon. what are the lessons learned from this in the land management if it were to happen? >> one thing i don't talk about in this book, the mount saint helens national monument exists today there was a group that was working before it started for recreational purposes because this was a working forest and so they were trying to have this area declared a wilderness