tv Doris Kearns Goodwin The Bully Pulpit CSPAN June 14, 2020 12:02am-1:03am EDT
>> a political genius of abraham lincoln. a complete list of all of her works available at booktv.org. >> great fun. thank you. >> please come back again. >> i love to. >> you're watching tv on c-span2. television for serious readers. every saturday evening the summer, we are taking the opportunity to show you several hours of programs from our archives with the well-known author. tonight it's with historian doris goodwin. her books include a look at president lincoln's cabinet, personal and political life of president lyndon johnson and her own memoir focuses on her love of baseball. coming up next, the 2013 miami book fair, she discusses her book on the relationship between theater roosevelt and william howard taft.
>> thank you for the great introduction. welcome, everyone to this great book fair now in its 30th year. [applause] doris goodwin, it's so wonderful to have you here. welcome to miami. this is our premier cultural event. great to have you her. if books about president. it was started by theodore roosevelt, known as teddy. how did he start the progressive era? what propelled him to act? what were his successes that are still with us today? >> we did call him teddy even though he didn't like the name teddy. i think he lost that to history.
[laughter] the aspects of the industrial age has not been dealt with since the civil war. there was no real workmen compensation. huge monopolies eating up small businesses. the gap between the rich and the poor had grown wider. sounds familiar to the situation today. even though he was a conservative when he started in a certain sense and a republican when he started, he realized the publican party would not be able to continue as a major force and majority force unless i began to deal with these problems of the industrial age. even as governor, he tried to introduce reform legislation, and drink the political process were tied in with the old order so they decided they would dump him into a vice presidency where he'd have no power in our be the end. then mckinley is assassinated in he becomes president.
it's not that he did it on his own, he understood the only way he could move this reluctant congress to take legislation necessary, demobilize the country to push them from the outside and that's why he defined words as the president's power to educate and morally move the country forward but he needed help and he had help from the press at that time. they were also progressive, their own agenda. it wasn't an uprising from the country at large to know something had to happen. his name will forever be identified with the progressive era. he taught a seminar on him 40 years ago and i always wanted to live with him and finally, after all these other characters, i got a chance to be with the colorful extraordinary figure. sometimes, i wonder what i'm doing spending my life with dead presidents but i wouldn't change it for anything in the world.
[laughter] [applause] >> continue chronological order. you included taft in your book as well. how did they become close? there were 400 letters. >> i didn't know that much about taft, i just need to follow the progressive movement up to the time when his guy these two aspect i knew taft succeeded teddy and they would go against each other in 1912 but he always go back and i know scott does, too, want the primary sources, letters and diaries in private journals for historians so when i found these letters between the two, i realized they became friends in the early 30s. an odd couple. teddy's marching run everywhere, during wrestling and boxing, taft lane between 250 and 250.
he wasn't doing much resting at that time but they liked each other. opposites almost attractive so teddy brings him into his cabinet and becomes the most important person. taft just wanted to be a judge, never a politician. he decides this the man i want to succeed me. he runs his campaign. gives him advice at every moment, only thing he didn't give him advice on was his campaign something which i don't think teddy would have approved on because i was get on a raft with taft. if you call on a raft with 340 pound taft, you wouldn't be very long. [laughter] take us he comes back from africa and he's been told by his progressive that taft has become too much and cozy with the old guard of republican in congress betrayed the progressive legacy.
it really wasn't that because he did try to do what he thought he was doing but he didn't have the skills of a public leader, didn't know how to deal with the press or give a speech. teddy decides the progressive want to run against him. a brutal campaign. because the two republicans were running from he runs on the third-party campaign, opening the door for the democrat to win but was so emotionally moving for me was the heart break when they broke greater than umbrellas because the punishment was much stronger. i love writing about these emotional things. then woodrow wilson came into the picture and he was elected and he went back to progressivism. >> woodrow wilson went back to progressivism big time, thinking the foundation, roosevelt, not teddy to woodrow wilson but there but but the planet. what wilson pointed to do, it's ironic because most people's image of wilson is this presbyterian minister's son but
he was extremely human, his emotional and passionate and what he wanted to do above all was humanized the presidency. so where theodore roosevelt created this relationship with the press, woodrow wilson wanted to advance and he started holding press conferences which our president had never done before. everything he did toward personalizing the white house and wilson came in with the most aggressive progressive agenda we'd seen. he brought about largely through this process of humanization and he did it by showing up at the congress. wilson had an extremely peculiar view of how the legislature grants the executive branch function. he thought being a political scientist that these two
branches, he thought they should cooperate. [laughter] [applause] he thought literally they should cooperate the government. so wilson did something presidents have not done since john adams in 1800, he showed up in the congress to conduct business, he brought back the president appearing to deliver the state of the union address. woodrow wilson delivered 25 addresses to joint sessions of congress. he actually showed up in a little room that sits in the congress which was designed for presidents to come and work with congress. i think a lot of presidents have failed to find this. [laughter] i'm not naming anyone but i think they have failed to find
it because it has a rather picky name. it's called the presidents room. [laughter] >> lbj found it. [laughter] >> yes, he did. and really, he found it big time. that's why so much legislation cap past, i think. johnson was, in many ways, the wilsonian tradition of getting in there, rolling up your sleeves, maybe cracking a few legs and arms and twisting them in fact what wilson did. so with that, we immediately saw within the first few months of the wilson administration, lowering of tariffs, introduction of the modern income tax which had a graduated scale so the future paid more. we saw the establishment of the federal reserve system which has been basically the basis of the american economy for the last century.
he went into eight hour workdays and so forth but the first june, the supreme court, all these things, progressivism for what work with temp was about reveling playing field. he is not anti- wealth, not anti- wall street but he was antitrust. he was against unfair competition. anywhere he's hard, he tried to fight it. >> both alluded to the fact that there are a lot of parallels between today and those times. are we in another gilbert age? i do think one of the things that produced great gap between the rich and the poor was the old economy has shifted. used to be if you are living in country town from the richest person might be the doctor or lawyer or house on the hill and suddenly with massive trust
forming in the 1880s and 90s, the railroads spanning the country and oil industry coming, you have millionaires side-by-side, the turn-of-the-century, this pace of life sped up and because you have telegrams replacing letters and focal cores exploited in the press and people were saying there was a lot of nervous disorder because the pace of life was soaks that up. think up back today. all of the inventions we have now but the problem is yes, we are in another age but that's progressive era, the mobilization of the country to handle these problems has not emerged. as a result, i'm not even sure the pulpit has the power it did in both wilson's time and teddy's time when they could give a speech, it would be the conversation in the country. it would be recorded in full even by the time fdr went, you could hear the people listening.
you can walk down the street and not miss a word of what he was saying because everybody was listening to the radio in the kitchen. he would listen to the whole speech when there were three networks. the media subdivided the way it was, the national move came along at my time, the turn of the 20th century, even when i write checks now, i'm writing 1913. [laughter] anyway. the newspapers emerged in the early 20th century replacing partisan press and in the old days, he would only read your newspaper if your republican or democrat. lincoln gave a great speech and it was carried out on the shoulders of his people and the democratic ones fell on the ground and hissed at him. got away from that. now we are again, divided, you can only watch her own favorite
cable station. you will hear on the part of speeches. our attention span has so diminished. the guys i wrote about they were given two years. right the thousand pieces month after month and people read them and talked about them. i'm not sure anybody would given the amount of time by a newspaper or magazine today. and the account they had come robbery they had in the attention span to talk about. so i worry about where the country is going in terms of our influence on the government. mcclure, the guy who ran the magazine at one time said there's no one left but all of us. sometimes i think that is true for us, to but where are we? we just complain about washington and we haven't figured out how to do something about the paralysis that.
>> and i think the fragmentation of the media is only going to continue because people make up their own new-media all the time. social media and blogging and the fact free media, it's happening all over the place. >> wasn't was treated pretty well by the media. especially the bakers, many who ended up working for. >> he's my favorite. >> he's one and spent his final years not only working for wasn't but then writing biography of woodrow wilson. one of the most glorious pieces about wilson was written by tarbell, there were so wonderful, i found myself not quoting it because i thought it make me look to partisan info since favorite but it's quite true what you've been suggesting about this great fractionalization of the media
because what we have lost, and you articulate, we just don't think as much anymore. we just react from the cut backs why we talk to that cable station that speaks what we think we think. [laughter] but it's a big factor today but wilson had a very good relationship with the media up too and just into the first world war which wilson ultimately brought us into. the most progressive president have had to date, not even forgetting gr but this president became the most repressive, suppressive the press, which he did during the war revitalizing alien and sedition acts that had been quiet certainly since the
days of adam but somewhat lincoln, they were brought back. wasn't used to excite lincoln all the time think i'm doing nothing he didn't do. that is a good cover, lincoln. >> people have asked me what would teddy roosevelt have done in today's world of twitter and i think he would have loved it. his great strength was to reduce complex problems into shorthand language. everything wasn't believed in, i'm not going after the rich unless they have activated their wealth and unfair means, i'm not going after the port unless they haven't taken care of the opportunities, the hatred he would say is the rock on which the country was founded but softly in cary, he even gave maxwell the slogan, go to the very last drop. it was said he drank 40 cups a day.
[laughter] >> i think he would have loved twitter because he couldn't shut him up. [laughter] >> he would have -- he loved being in the center of things. his strength and his weakness. his daughter said he wanted to beat the bride at the wedding and the corpse of the funeral and the baby -- [laughter] >> and all this made wilson crazy because he thought tr was just a big blustering caricature of a man. in fact, somebody once pointed out to tr, he said roosevelt, you and wasn't really have the same objective here, so many of the same principles you believe in. why do you attack him everyday? roosevelt said i think it's true, i guess wilson is just the weaker version of me. [laughter] >> that's great.
>> wilson was president of the university because -- before he was president. did it affect him in a positive or negative way? >> the ivory tower helped him in a positive way very much because he was trying to tear down the ivory tower. woodrow wilson was the relatively poor son of a presbyterian minister who had good fortune to go north to college from georgia and the carolinas where he grew up, virginia where he was born, went to princeton new jersey. there he found a very exclusive campus. he resented it as an undergraduate and he came to resent it as a professor there. he then became president of the college and it was at this time he decided now i have the ability to change what this college is. wasn't predecessor in the presidency princeton was a man who used to break that he ran
the finest country club in america. and he did. there was no question about it. the sense of the very, very rich. wilson tried to tear that down. it was in doing that he began writing about he was doing speaking about what he was doing. this is how the most rise in american history occurred because people began to look at wilson who used the princeton campus is a great metaphor for america. he believed higher education should be the great catapult for people anybody from any class in a country that has no classes, but in such a country, anybody is educated and works hard should be able to go up a step a run or two on the latter. so wilson became famous for this. so much so that some of the political bosses in the democratic party were attracted
to him, thinking he was a perfect combination to be there puppet namely, he sounded very progressive and reformist but also that he was a professor so he'd be very weak. little did they know when he got elected, governor of new jersey, which he served for about 18 months, the first thing he did as governor was kicked out the very machine that put him in office. [laughter] so everybody saw this was no week college professor. >> let's turn to the women in these president lives. i'm more interested in the woman behind the man. i always wanted my husband to be like nancy reagan. [laughter] interested in how these women helped these president. >> what interested me, there are three women writing about, was about taft tarbell. they each made choices they have to make even if there were
narrower choices than we have today. roosevelt came from a family where her father had been wealthy, lost his shipping business became an alcoholic. she lived near teddy which was a young girl in a wealthy area and then they had to move to more modest homes. after she drew a protective curtain, she loved teddy from the time she was young. he and she were boyfriend and girlfriend up through college, they had a fight in his sophomore year of college. they broke up and then he fell madly in love and a beautiful girl from, alice. they got married and then she died a few years after. he thought he would never love again but he went back and married edith and it was an extraordinary strong marriage. all she wanted from the marriage and her first ladyship was to give companionship and strength in the sanctuary to her restless
husband. she said when she became first lady, she had no intention of being a personal public. metaphor a woman was to be only in the name newspaper twice, when you're married and when you're. so when she left, little known by the public but very much known by her family. growing up in cincinnati, they had impressions from the time she was out of nonsense to do something but her father
sent her mother's to harvard and yelled. she talked to her mother's dismay. you'll never come up to society if you don't stop. she decided she would not harry as a result but then she meets taft and he adored her and respected her independence. he made her his partner in his whole career. she is really responsible for him, she was in politics eventually instead of the traditional route was on. she wanted the expense of life. she helped with his speeches and strategy and she became an
extraordinary first lady in the pew first months she was there. actavis, certain concerns with working women, she brought the cherry cheese to washington, she opened her guest list to a lot more people who had been there before. created a public park with free concerts and sadly for him and two months after he was inaugurated when she had just got an article written in the new york times about how extraordinary
she was, she fell off i got collapsing, had a devastating stroke and she recovered her power up walking but never to speak connected sensors again so he spent days and days trying to teach her phrases, glad to see you, happy to be here so she could come to the reception and participate. you never know how things alter but this absolutely contributed to the trouble in his presidency. lastly, tarbell growing up in pennsylvania, not just the frustrations of her mother when her own family is hurt because
her father's independent oil producer making more money than he ever dreamed. he'd been a teacher, a cappella kempton with standard oil, he undoes his business. she has to worry about the family's economic so either praise from the times she's 14 she would never take a husband and she does not ever get married. becomes a famous journalist. when she writes her exposé, newspapers recorded that she was willing to be paying anyone to become her husband and take her on trips around the world. [laughter] however much trouble we have as women balancing home and family and work, the choices are much more broad. interesting to see, they out each made choices to pick their own desires. they are indispensable to their husbands in different ways. >> he's got a bunch of women. [laughter]
>> you certainly did not. [laughter] >> the old show in which we have to come up with the most hepatic romantic stories. woodrow wilson had two wives. not at the same time. [laughter] first was a young woman he met in georgia when he was a struggling lawyer in atlanta. he was a presbyterian minister's son. he met the minister's daughter in a little town in georgia from they fell instantly in love and he was realizing he didn't have a career as a lawyer so he took up academia at that time. the good news for me, the biographer, she, ellen and woodrow began exchanging 3000 of the most passionate love letters i've ever read.
yes, i'm talking woodrow wilson. [laughter] there almost hard to believe. they are emotional, sexual, revealing yes, woodrow wilson. [laughter] true. she was as good as she got. >> what does that mean? [laughter] >> let your conscience be your guide. [laughter] they married, she became a professor's wife and a college president's wife. she poured a lot of tea and the interesting thing, she was a very good artist. she painted extremely well. could have had a career as an artist, give it all up to be a proper wife, the role of women was dictated back then and she was the most supportive wife there could be all the way to the white house and one gear into their living in the white
house, ellen wilson died. the president was crushed, he could barely get out of bed. he did not talk about suicide being so religious but he said more than once he wished someone would shoot him. he couldn't deal with that. two things got him out of bed. the first was the very week she died, a war broke out in europe. paragraphing of the door think mr. president, there's something happening and we need you here. the second thing that happened in the next few months, woodrow wilson had acute need in the way they had in movies and he was introduced to a young attractive widow who lived in d.c. over the course of the next year, the president went according and he's having private dinners in the white
a. scott berg: this was the republicans did not want to do. in the middle of this tour, woodrow wilson collapsed braided and was rushed home, to washington from the middle of the country and there a few days later, woodrow lawson suffered a stroke. here is where missus wilson comes in. she had a handful of doctors engaged in what i consider the greatest white house conspiracy and history. because three or four people decided it would never tell anybody the president had suffered a stroke. so for the last year and now, the wilson administration for all intensive purposes, is wilson became the first female president of the united states.
[laughter]. yes yes bringing on. she was making no decisions on her own she insisted, she said she was merely a steward but nobody saw the president of the thousands of people who wanted to see him, nobody saw him a handful if that without passing through missus wilson. all documents and things are required signatures, commissions memorandums, nothing appeared to be for the president of the united states eyes until missus wilson decided what and when the president would act upon so she became a pretty supportive wife. [laughter]. >> packages -underscore nothing the scott said. letters. i don't know what it's going to happen 200 years from now when we don't have antifreeze in letters for historians to look back on pretty maybe in my will be saved. but certainly not net language and people have the only means
of communicating through letters, when you find the letters. it is the treasure. there was a military aid the marshy, develop teddy intact and in the state's military aide with the president all of the time. teddy love hypnotic and of the son and taft adored him. when the break occurred he wrote letters everything today to his family which are absolute cold. and he talked about the way we know how did that russia was especially for taft. he recounted what he was feeling his teddy started talking about him and calling him a puzzle and a backend. in this relationship has been so strong. and finally it was supposed to take a trip in 1912 before the nomination thank began to heat up. and then at the last minute when teddy threw his hat in the ring, he decided i can't go. i have to stay attack pretty he needs me and i know he feels like he needs me for to know brett he tells taft he canceled his shipping orders. and taft said you have to go. now is your time ago pretty he
will be back to work. when i really need you. he goes to europe, about four weeks pretty comes back on the titanic and he lost his life. taft was stricken yet again and considerably so that everywhere he went, he felt like he was missing this man. and this man is that titanic was going down, selling somebody who wrote a letter to taft, then he had these letters that were in storage any hope to maybe, to remember someday that they have been cold to biographers. anyways, all i can say young people is keep track of what you're writing to people's autobiography of comes along, he will have stuff for us. [laughter]. host: to get panned out every now and again. [laughter]. because it's different. the men we have written about in the women too for that matter, wrote it so beautifully. we take the time to write, you compose a thought. and this is a nice thing.
he put it in lovely language. that was certainly indication of wilson is live. >> he would like to start him up to the microphone we will hear from you as well. doris kearns goodwin: my final question is president obama signing such a difficult time right now. so what advice would you president give him. [laughter]. doris kearns goodwin: you go first. [laughter]. host: president wilson would say get to the presidents room. start a dialogue. no woodrow wilson at american tensions sinema in the end. a very contentious house of representatives as well. he did not get everything you want to be here's what would roll wilson engage in. it was a sustained dialogue for eight years. there was a lot of consummation. a lot of arguments, a lot of
disagreements but it was an ongoing chat between these two houses by these two branches of the american government. i think that is something that wasn't only did so strongly. in the second thing, as related to it, and especially ironic because we do have such an image of something such a stiff figure. in fact is that wilson personalized presidency. it is not afraid to condemned the congress. he did not just sit in the imperial white house. very anti- ivory tower. he was going to get their . willing to do anything to open the conversation. a. scott berg: at one point even had a fallen knighted state senate come to meet the white house. he said let me open the house to you if it that's what it takes to get something passed pretty he said let's do it and was escaping the dialogue opening. doris kearns goodwin: i agree with scott. in addition to going to the
congress, it is using the tool of the white house. they want to come there. and out there have been difficulties easily know the president some have not been willing to come and be seen because this terrible roof this between the republicans and democrats. it was like their disloyal to the base if there sing with the president . but there's still something special that coming to the white house . lyndon johnson used to have them for breakfast and lunch and dinner and even call them up in the middle of the night. one senator called him at 2:00 a.m. in the senator said no, i was just lying here on the bed looking at the ceiling helping my president would call. [laughter]. but the big difference is it so much harder today is to hold political culture in washington is change pretty days to stay grounded we can be for the race time to face east stupid funds to make their stupid ads on television. the campaign finances actually. [laughter]. [applause]. is absolutely the poison in the
system. they would play poker and drink together . they formed friendships across party lines pretty so johnson needed to get to dirksen help break the filibuster on that great civil rights act of 1954, they were friends. he go to them. they're so fruit few friendships and none of them served in the war together. many of them had been in world war ii together and they knew what it was like to have a common mission. does not matter where you're coming from, you have a common mission. they have lost that since i become impatient which is our country. something has to ring that's back if we can bring teddy and wilson and lbj and all of our presidents in there, the gift to figure out both sides of the aisle, congress and the presidency, it is time that we were able to start dealing with our problems. [applause]. speech of thank you. doris kearns goodwin: thank you so much and now it is your turn. guest: i live in washington dc
and have the privilege of being the founding member of the national museum of women in new york . i was there for 20 years. my question for mr. vargas in the education that we had in our training, we were asked to read a book called jailed for freedom. it was a series of essays written by people who were lawyers, physicians, judges, women, who are fighting for the right to vote. and president wilson totally ignored them. i wondered if you encountered this in your research. a. scott berg: i don't think that is exactly right that he told of ignore them. wilson believed that women should have the vote. he believed the should not be 19th amendments for many years and he came around on that. a rather famously in 1950, hundred went up to new jersey because he thought this was a state right thing and should
happen state-by-state. by 1960, and the 15 and 16 there were a lot of protests outside of the white house . and her sister suffered, they were being arrested, taken to jail and it wasn't said let them go. don't put them in jail . just let them go. i know what "the issue is". i am not prepared to fight for 19th amendments. building. she had balked at it anytime. she clearly wanted to say. she was fighting for attention and making her point. now by 1917, wilson was bringing the country into war. and it was at this time that he had a major shift and he hadn't been to the more conservative going believed in state-by-state adoption beginning in 1917, he was coming around for two big reasons. first of all who were fighting in europe for peace and freedom over there and he said, how can
we not have half the women in this country voting. and that seem to be huge mistake to him. the thing he saw during the war once we were in it, was the role that women were playing. they work leaving the house for work, they were actually doing a lot of just good works for the war movement. so if lesson had an overnight change of heart. actually began actively campaigning for the 19th amendment. and even by the time he came out, because another session of congress. told them that this was a war measure. that's how important it was that we had to have national suffrage, universal suffrage in the united states because of the war. and he thought that would be a good way to get everybody to rally behind it. and within a year, it was a done deal. and even alice paul, brent they
would grow wilson for it. it was like to the party but once he got there, he had had it. [laughter]. host: we going to go to the next question. thank you buried. guest: what an honor to hear you too and to be able to ask you a question. mr. berg, you alluded briefly to the answer to this regarding president wilson at princeton buried these three presidents, what was there relationship to status in class. we get a sense that in with the common man but not of the common man. he was a harvard man, takeo man. a. scott berg: and we know he was friends and running down to the lower east side where my great-grandparents sets up a hundred years ago.
in a specific outcome of the immigrant lower cap classes, to 1920, the really parts of the america of these three presidents. what was the class. speech of that is a great question. i think what happened for theodore roosevelt was that when he first went to harvard, he kind of was it just be dealing with the people of his class. but underlying that kind of attitude, he came from a wealthy family obviously in new york. but his father had always been interested in social justice. not join the real estate business to make your mother pretty and he became at the left for the post. that instinct was intended. but in the real place where he began to shift away from that harvard glassman mentality, was a he became a state legislature right after congress. an inference he would and he thought the irish guys, with the tobacco their cigars, were of a different class and he started
becoming histrionic ready right even the state legislature yelling and screaming about the political debacle. he was isaac and separated an incentive point he was realizing he was getting anything done because it was reaching across to these other people he said that he realized he came across and had to learn how to deal with people of all different classes and just as you said, reese became his great friend. and originally he was against regulation of the sediments that were making cigars that that he was from that tradition pretty saw the conditions and he changed his mind early on was for regulation buried in these reporters, when he became police commissioner took in him to our people were living in the middle of the night. what helped him a lot was he had so many different jobs. then when he was in the dictionary hand group of people with him. and he kept his relationship with these reporters are much more involved in the nitty-gritty and he was pretty and they weren't able to criticize him with was the heat rather than just becoming fickle
to him. and this guy mr. dooley, the famous chicago bartender. and humans, he wrote a review of teddy roughriders book. he city put so much in the center of the action as is if he were the only person he should've called it alone in cuba. [laughter]. but it did he do, he writes him and he says i regret to tell you that my watch and my entire family loved your books pretty now you owe me one. i want to meet you. come here and meet me. so through the reporters, through people like jacob rees and people who are involved in the settlement houses. he began to see the conditions of life. he later said to give his talk, the my buddies think of my talks for two folksy, kind of homely. but i know i am reaching people because i know know those people. he took train trips mud months at a time going around the country talking to people and waiting to people in the trains, he would even stand up what is in the middle of lunch and at
one point he said he was waving so much these people seem so indifferent circle the internet as part of cal's. that is frantically waving out. but i think that is what something had a jar him away. [laughter]. from a tiny background for justice fdr transformed him pretty suddenly was aware that fate had dealt him an unkind hand and then he reached out to other people to whom they had the same thing had happened. a. scott berg: will was not bleeding great class structure. he was from a lower middle-cla middle-class, being presbyterian minister son. what he did believe in however was the educated class that was the class the matter for him. this man who spent most of his life and career on a college campus, either as a student or professor or president, this is a man who believed that was the great leveler of all playing fields in this country.
the interesting thing was when most of became a politician, that really fascinating tool he used as a politician, he never spoke down to the audience. he never got folksy. he always use rather elevated language and he spoke invariably without any notes pretty we just another need to deliver an hour or an hour and have speech the card and with five little bullets on it and speak in perfect sentences. heightened of vocabulary, metaphors left in) he could just to do it. and the fans loved it. they understood it, they felt elevated to bryant and woodrow wilson we see never looked down on them. that was a wonderful thing for them. it was a great tool. as such, had think it was pretty effective in that regard. doris kearns goodwin: lucky for roosevelt, he did speak no spring infection 1912, when he was campaigning, and had his 50 page speech in his pocket.
and when he was shot in the chest, and go to the hospital and the bullet remained within me still delivered this to our speech. it despite bleeding inside but because he had 50 pages of his speech in his pocket, and a spectacle class, and would of course rather than probably would've killed them of the spots. so they each had their own way of talking. [laughter]. a. scott berg: speeches can save lives now. guest: about wilson in the league of nations. the thought is that i heard he was so in trenches and not willing to accept some of the reservations at some of the senators did. was wondering if you could reflect on the varied heifers want to thank you, i'm writing no ordinary times and is incredible and wonderful. thank you. doris kearns goodwin: thank you. guest: i was wondering and this is such a big question. choose whatever party like.
between tr and fdr, similarities and dissimilarities. reflections given that that yesterday was a 50th anniversary of the killing of kennedy. and how in the world do we get to campaign-finance reform. everyone is so disheartened about where we are. what you see in the future . thank you so much. a. scott berg: i didn't think this was in my job description for a. [laughter]. but i heard something about the league of nations in the summer rain which would roll wilson absolutely wanted to absolutely one of five the world to end all wars. wilson wasn't transient and i think for a couple of reasons, when he was just a pretty stubborn guy is role. but when he was over in paris and he was there for six months i should add. the president of the united states left the country for six months, to negotiate this treaty
and during that time especially towards the end, months five and six, really got a getting country to get something to pretty begin to make some copper prices. small wasn't one or two very big ones in the end. thinking back and i think we can this senate that was going to be completely unwilling to accept the treaty, that was the moment i think the curtain came down for wilson. and he said i am not giving away another thing. and indeed this congressional battle went on for weeks. it is what prompted tour of the country and even after his stroke, after he had come home the battle still went on in the senate grade and wilson even though compromises were presented, would not buy them. as the bear began he quit rival the senate, the dean of the republican party henry cabot lodge did come in with an 11th hour compromise.
news largely seemed tactical. and wilson simply would not buy it. so i feel that he suffered a great tragedy, this was a man who did not just shoot himself in the foot. he truly stabbed himself in the heart. doris kearns goodwin: and i think what that raises us when we lived with these people for so long, you really do and of caring about them so when they disappoint you, and they do things that they wished they hadn't done, obviously, i door franklin roosevelt and eleanor and yet wishing and fdr had opened the door's more jewish refugees before hitler closed-door forever and wishing that he did of course not incarcerated the japanese-americans and it's balancing in the end they was the la leader the one world war ii and ended the threat of adolf hitler. even when i'm writing this book sometimes, my kids these human and they would hear me. and frankly just be nicer to eleanor. she really loves you right
eleanor, forget that affair that happened so long ago. [laughter]. and similarly with theodore roosevelt. when i have such respect for his domestic policy and justice persona. his views on war, i have no respect for brady would say the victories at work . in the victories of peace at any moment. and that romances idea for pre- datacenter graduated from harvard in june of oh one. in september 11 company volunteer for them in the next day. he was platoon leader infected in the later start and then went back to afghanistan. he had written his thesis at harvard on either roosevelt and let him. and after he came back from combat heat thinking of understood having been in combat, anybody could romanticize how about. sometimes when you just want to say, what is the matter with you but that is part of this glory being about aquifer. all human beings have the strength and their weaknesses. it is up to us really not forget
the parts that is we can bring up also at the same time i could never choose a somebody ultimately to write about the agenda overwhelmingly want to be with. because i live in the first of all, i wake up with him. i cannot ever write about hitler. so luckily i found people that i overwhelmingly found people who i like for and they do these things and disappoint you. if you like you know them and if you could need to change them. [laughter]. but you cannot read. host: we've been given a ten minute reprieve so this who want to ask a question can come back and ask a question . only give a chance to those people who are in line for sprint go ahead sir. guest: an executive producer i forgot in hollywood author in the book series. when an inspiration you both are to all authors in the room and to everybody in the film pretty really pretty.
[applause]. just a very simple question. can you both speak to the importance of eugene in the election of 1912 regarding wilson's taft and roosevelt. thank you. a. scott berg: he did mighty well. he was extremely important for any i think he was, more than just africa the big sue of that election. it was a really fascinating, this is not generally of ideas. notice that some of progressive's in the year . becomes extremely important in wilson's life later on because is one of those people who will be arrested a under the wilson law. for speaking sedition sleep . and when he was delivering a speech, said annoying going to be arrested for this note tell you, i have the speech at least
20 times, keep looking for this addition. just can't find it. it was basically telling the people, some workers that this was a capitalist war and they did not have to be cannon fodder in it. but for that he was arrested and was put in jail . and he was found guilty in the cayman nonexistent nine - zero news in prison this will tell you a lot about will drop wilson. for now over, woodrow was in his heavy stockings in the white house is about to leave the white house and people in his government, is very attorney general who basically had like this time jill came him and said mr. president, and no man now a sick service time. the wars over. he is clearly not in danger any longer. here's the pardon all ready for you just have to put your
signature on it . and with the signature ♪ ♪ will supply the pen and wrote denied. you didn't cross him more than once. it was simply because wilson felt once we had gone to war, this sort of speech telling people not to go to work, that was sedition to him. eddie said as long as i'm in charge of 2 million people, i cannot let anybody speak out against them. and so that is why he was just entrenchment on the subject. guest: and you said nobody is perfect, i've written a book and it deals with these things. in the relationship of race. both of them in my estimation especially woodrow wilson. but you mention tr rough riders . they could very easily be called teddy roosevelt and the buffalo soldiers . and woodrow
wilson, he said the race back, numbers of years. he wanted to go back pre- reconstruction. your comments on each of those. doris kearns goodwin: i agree that theodore roosevelt had a symbolic gesture where he had booker t washington to dinner and produced such outrage in the south and another parts of the country that there was this quality of the social relationship any act down i think. but he also held materialist attitudes and racist attitudes. these people are men unfortunately of their generation. this record on race, there was a writer in brownsville in a group of blacks who were then arrested because he couldn't figure out who had started it it was wrong. he was wrong. these are the most moments for your absolutely right. all that you can say is that you have to remember the context in which they are leading.
even abraham lincoln, in the 1850s was against obviously against intermarriage producing is blacks sitting in jurisprudence with black laws. and just think how could lincoln have done this for the important thing, is that he grew from those attitudes pretty and he eventually led the next to come in and they were so important and soldiers in the army that it changed the whole course of the war in many ways. of course he issued the emancipation proclamation. but there's no answering for them except to paint the context in which they are rolling and see if they are way behind the context are they in the middle of it or sometimes if you're lucky, the person you're dealing of that is ahead of the times. guest: this is been such a magnificent high level conversation. on a go to a moment of history and passion and look different level. what it feel like - [laughter]. doris kearns goodwin: having been a passionate person all my
life and make so many experiences, one with the brooklyn dodgers in 1955. [applause]. and obviously i chose another team after the dodgers abandoned and went to california and went to harvard. almost like falling in love again with the boston red sox and had all of those years really lost it we lost and we lost in almost one like the brooklyn dodgers violate we went in oh four and in oh seven violent that we have the season tickets to the games . so we were at every game in every playoff in every division. but to be in our town and see them winning and share it with boston. that is what so is great about baseball. somebody asked me what would you have done if the dodgers had been against the red sox. how would you dealt with this loyalty. thought about it my answer was that the dodgers for my first love. my father growing up in brooklyn, taught me how to keep score as many of you know, that's where my love of history
began when i was able to record for him history of the afternoons brooklyn dodgers game going over every single play in excruciating detail and he made me feel like i was telling him a fabulous story. and i had first love of a boyfriend before i married my husband. but the boston red sox have now been my sustaining love for almost 40 years. and 38 years to my husband. the boston red sox of the will of now. [laughter]. ... ...
>> any closing comments? >> it has been a pleasure having this conversation. [laughter] thank you. [laughter] [applause] so that was pulitzer prize winning doris kearns goodwin from the miami book festival 2013 she has been a regular on the tv and c-span over the years appearing over 60 times. all book discussions are available to watch online apple tv.org. we have one more program we went to show you from the 2018 national book festival she discusses her book leadership in turbulent times how american presidents have dealt with a crisis.