tv Conflict Zone Deutsche Welle April 2, 2020 10:30am-11:00am CEST
for needy jews british. beethoven's 9th. for the world starts on t w. live. we have a nurse tonight who all the ramifications of touring you know the situation is not in your control is it how could you let it get to this point to where the majority you might be wrong this is a party which is being socialist groups what do you do you just keep voting until you get the election result that you want this week conflict zones at the munich security conference in germany a country that has just been plunged into a leadership crisis and confronted with the specter of its nazi past merkel's hand-picked successor and a great crowd karrenbauer has stepped out after her c.d.u. members defied orders and voted with the far right in the german state up to
running my guest is a c.d.u. parliamentarian who serves on the foreign affairs committee can his party find its soul and its backbone as europe and the world looks to germany italy. like ricky is about to welcome. so how could an election into wrong year one of the smallest german states bring down the hand selected successor to angela merkel on a graph are are you that weak as a party well i don't think so but we have under estimated or the ramifications of touring year or so that we have to recognize that the christian democratic union has lost the elections in this country some months ago and we have not taken serious consequences so this was the 1st mistake inside the party of touring europe
the 2nd mistake was that we have underestimated the role of the parliament. into ring year and 3rd we have underestimated from the low and the 50 and therefore i think we should be very decent and very careful for the next weeks let's talk a little more about the f.t. because uncle americal german chancellor has called for a new election the f.d.a. is feasting on this chaos they say the following. they say that a new election is not democratic and the c.d.u. is ignoring a quarter of the electorate how could you the governing c.d.u. get played so badly by the far right a f d well into ringing there was a very left coalition and not the city you would suit you was of the opposition so we are not a governing party and touring europe we have been the governing party for 25 years however in touring europe the
a deal has shown that they would recklessly they vote only for trying to split the cohesion of the center of democratic parties and we have to accept that inside germany we have a strong protest notion inside the population and we have to take the serious the dea is exploiting the sense for a position of the sense of for turmoil inside the population a lot of people who feel left behind try to make use of the d. as a protest party and the politicians of the have exploited that so what do you do now because i mean you have for example the leader of the a.f.p. in the bundestag alice vital saying the following a state premier was democratically elected from democratically elected representatives then the chancellor comes in and says this election has to be undone and voided so what do you do you just keep going until you get the election result that you want we have to stay to the to the reality the reality was that the
. candidate who gained what's in the parliament so it was a fake candidate and no other party was aware about this chess game of the 50 so they are trying to exploit a democratic procedure by not voting for their own candidate but voting for. probably minutes until you get it could you get in play at the issue the issue is we have to be careful much more careful than in the past and the deed is not behaving like a normal competitor they are behaving like a spoiler is the legacy of angela merkel though because i mean you've seen him her now 15 years as a german chancellor she's pushed the party so far to the left she's created the space for the far right a.f.d. they're now the largest opposition party in the bundestag they are playing can you make her into rugby as you yourself have highlighted where they are not the largest
opposition party they are the largest opposition party but they have only 90 seats so we should not over estimated 2nd as regards the role of our party we are in the center and until america has detected that normally in germany you have a left majority and it is her merit that she has achieved since 2005 centaurian to policy in germany with the participation of the c.d.u. without this idea we would have been in the opposition since 10 or 15 years again so she brought the seed you to the center and on the other side you are right there raced was raised right wing party but this was also a combined with some migration issues and with the rural areas who sometimes feel left behind 54 percent of germans believe that the scandal and to run the damaged their trust in democracy and it has it has shaken this country to its core at the
reaction has been fast and furious weren't you aware of the damage that this could cause i mean you had 17 members of the to run the government cd you members who were elected who called for you for help they called for you months ago they called for you in october well i don't want to blame the touring you concede you but they have made also some serious mistakes for. of all the leader of the party has lost the election but he stood in office so this was wrong he didn't open his seat for others 2nd in the preparation of the election of the law he was ordered this election from the left he was not over about the chess game so they are have been black eyed at the time so my guess is that 1st of all the touring you see you has to take over the responsibility 2nd the c.d.u. in germany has to be aware that the population in eastern germany is not willing to
accept influence from that from the outside but if we influence from the outside i'm a defender of until america then we should explain why we cannot accept that the party which is defending 12 years of dictatorship as some. excrements of a bird that such a part here is trying to be part of a process for 2 through a country so let us talk about the strategy with how you deal with that party right now and the merits of that strategy your party in hamburg in 2018 you came up with the following directive but the c b u rejects coalitions and similar forms of cooperation both with the left party and the right a.f.p. how do you plan on maintaining that when we look at to run you for example 54 percent of the voters in this german state voted for french parties that you won't cooperate here but the also
a majority might be wrong but it's democracy it's democracy it's democracy you're right but the deal us all those voters there will still matter know but we have to explain what the deal has been in behind what is thinking from behind words where it's leading who is leading from behind them that this is a party which is absorbing fascist roots and is a. for being such it's precious power inside germany so we have a neglectable and p.d. we have a new neglectable devi you form a right wing parties who all went over to the if he was talking about how you maintain your majority nationally because that's also falling in the polls currently the c.d.u. polling at just 27 percent nationally you have a very conservative members in your party for example the vet on you have called for its dissolution. wouldn't you just be handled liver and more votes to the a.f.p. i don't think so i think if the c.d.u.
where would they go you're hoping that they form their another new party another party on the far right the voters of the deal have several sources a quarter of them are from the c.d.u. nearly the half are those who have have abstained towards 4 years for decades nearly and the other 3rd is from social democrats and other parties from the left party even in the east and the eastern countries so it's not a psystar or children of the c.d.u. it's the children of living the countryside at home a sight behind it's a sign for neglecting the needs of the people in the in the 5 new lender in germany of germany and 3rd we should be very well aware that the f.d.a. is a party with precious roots but we should not blame the world to us we should name and shame the defenders of this wrong policy like hooka and we cannot cooperate with heads of a party who are very very right wing but for the c.d.u.
in in the our republic we should stay to the center if we turn to the right if we should go to the right we will lose in the center and we will lose more than we might gain at the right wing a very famous quote i'd like to bring in now from france years of strauss legendary prime minister a very and former candidate for chancellor no legitimate political party can be to the right of the c.s.u. your sister are you working together you can adhere to that mantra and you know it it can't work because now the right scene is also a cue piper fascists and we cannot be more right wing than the fascists are we have to really separate us from such thinking 2nd strauss never became chancellor and we should not repeat the mistakes if we if we offer right wing candidates for cut chancellorship. conservative people we won't when we will create opposition leaders but we will not create chanceless we will create chances we are the center here's
what the germans think is going to happen in your country 48 percent believe that the f.d.a. will be part of a regional or federal government in the next 10 years 26 percent think it is ok that the f.t. participates in the regional government 19 percent support the f.d.a. as part of the federal government the situation is not in your control not how could you let it and as far as point you are very experienced as far as you know we have since the beginning of the federal republic of germany we have a right wing up to a white right wing. oriented population up to 25 percent this has not changed since the fifty's and now the people at the themselves even more frankly than in the past so we have to be very aware that we have about 20 to 30 percent who are able and willing to vote very right wing parties and about 10 to 15 percent who are really fascist so we have to invest more in education and explanation and 2nd for
me it's of utmost importance not to accept that such parties create governments we should be here where a clear. i got compound are is now stepping down as head of the party she will not run for chancellor she was the successor who was picked by both your party and by agel americal herself was she about pick. i don't think so but she has made some bad choices and she has just lost 21 percent of people in the country or who are happy with her performance that's just 6 percent better than the f.t. had alexander gul it's the it's also a question of how you you raise the question and how you formerly the questions and on the other side she has achieved something which nearly is forgotten she has reconstituted c.s.u. and c.d.u. this is really her biggest merit as regards as the party chief and now she's out
there's a power vacuum here at the munich security conference we know that the world is increasingly turning to germany calling on germany for leadership decided to take a moment to talk a little bit more about germany's track record on on an international stage and we can begin with syria on october 21st 2019 defense minister and of our compound our made a proposal for a security zone in syria similar to a proposal that you had made years earlier she brought the proposal to nato a few stiff few days later how did that go well the proposal itself is very well it will very estimated but at that time very impractical the very practical because it shows to the united states that these of all that the europeans are willing for burden sharing and this was the core idea of european burden sharing combined with the united nations security mandate however the proposal came either
too late or too early so you need to dust fill it with other initiatives and you have to also coordinate this with other parties and to coordinate it inside the government. your own foreign minister said we are being told from all sides this plan is not realistic the people in syria don't have time for theoretical debates so i mean what's better for you is it better to have a good plan that's not in acted or a plan that actually helps people well the plan which helps people is still missing and it's due to the fact that the european union has not a quote qualitative majority vote but you need to act unanimously so this is the real barrier of european ability to act and unfortunately this is not over has not yet been overcome but i'm going to click combo have also made here in new nick has made a lot of proposals hope to overcome this and broke the success of mrs merkel really
made it very clear these days that the european ability to act is only lip service and we need to overcome that the situation is dire the situation is currently at our doorstep we have your own interior minister saying that we are going to have a 2nd 2015 if we do not help countries at the e.u. borders with how to deal with migration 3000000 civilians it live amid a government offensive 600000 have already been displaced since december. what are you doing well this is the idea of a nickel come convo about the safety sown we need a u.n. mandate and then to prepare action are 2 different things but this is a certain necessary really unnecessary step because if you don't get the united nations into action you will lose the international credibility of the united nations itself and it's a question of diplomatic and ever to bring in not a chinese or russian vote against it so you need to convince them and you need to
offer them something that's a question of negotiation and we should do this we should try to achieve a secure and safe haven either north syria or in western part of iraq to have a safe haven for refugees under the united nations control comp combined with with other partners because the turks and the russians just completely bypass you and they they did it on their own yeah why did where did they do that because the european union was not able to act there was no willingness and therefore we need these german proposals because it was germany which for example european action in the straits of hormuz some scientists are a little bit more about your partnerships you mention the united nations the european union i want to talk about nato. germany made the following commitment and 2014 nato leaders they all recommitted to increasing defense spending and spending 2 percent of g.d.p. by 2025 you know what that the number is here and there and very well current
government reports wondered at least the sun to 1.5 percent by 2024 currently we are with how it treats your partners well our caucus christian democratic and christian social union we demanded to achieve this by the end of this period so that means in 2021 but our coalition partner the s.p.d. didn't want that at all so we need to find compromises and what the compromise was to achieve that cold. 2025 however the pure numbers won't hope this would be about 60000000000 euros some 5 years ago we had nearly 32000000000 euros so that would mean to nearly double it by 2025 and 2 percent would mean 80000000000 euros who takes you seriously though if you can't even abide to your commitments on the international scale because you have those internal dynamics regarding your cold
current coalition and your party tree who takes you seriously we need to calm down because we are very honest and our defense minister as well as the chancellor made the commitment one but 5 percent but 2025 due to our coalition commitments and to to continue and to achieve the 2 percent goal by 2031 i know as a simple member of parliament that this is too long too late but we have also an armed forces which was not able to absorb any money because all the changes with which are needed or the reforms are not yet to do the reforms are over due but they are not yet in action not yet practicable so that the means we need for the time 2nd it's not only the figure what we need is more interoperability and more standardize ation and then we could also save money we have $32.00 armies in the european union and we need to reform that all these 32 armies have at least the
same procedures and nearly the same equipment let's talk a little bit more about the readiness of your army to respond to that common defense clause within nato we have from the bundestag army but that he says the following there is none of that not enough personnel too much bureaucracy you have a fleet of submarine stuck in port because they didn't have required propellers you have take the time it's operating at one 4th of capacity loved the pilots not being able to log in a flight hours to complete can can your allies for live in you. to be ready we're what as regards our commitment to the balkans or to afghanistan or to africa or the baltic air policing we fully achieve or benchmarks but what is up to reforms still the domestic situation of our armed forces and this is really horrible and the ombudsman you just mentioned it is repeating this since 5 years however look where we come from we are a pacifist country we have had 20 years from 91 i think this country however with
with aspirations to lead on the international scare scale when it comes to involvement in conflicts where military deterrence and military action might be needed the other don't you need a functional bundeswehr or do you just plan to when i mean not lives until you eventually as a former officer i know a functioning army since the early 1990 s. and i know a dysfunctional the last 25 years and we have achieved a lot now and with the armed forces the bundeswehr is on a very good way however it will take another 10 years because it was nearly dismantled as regards our combat forces it was nearly dismantled as regards our stocks of ammunition since 2011 the war against libya we have not refilled our munitions stocks so look where we come from our narrative force we are encircled by partners and friends so we could focus on security on social security we are for 8 percent of the world. of the of the world spending for social world germany 8
percent with one percent of the population of the world and we are for 8 percent of the world social spending but we do not match our commitment with men since 2014 but we know to achieve that because since 2990 we have fought for that so we need to turn back to our former commitments and the us we had we know how it works but we didn't do that let's talk about another security concern nords stream to. that heavily chris. sized by the united states and the european union for facilitating german dependence on russian gas you said the following about it i'm skeptical of nordstrom too but it is still russian gas that europe needs germany has more than 2 thirds of its gas supplies from russia which cannot be discussed away so you want to have your cake and eat it 1st of all the americans should come down because they import billions of barrels nor but millions of barrels of russian oil
and they should come down and look european come down there's an open letter from 60 member of parliament from 5 political groups who wrote the following to agel americal choose the european way and not the germany way 1st your government is allowing a major rift between the e.u. member countries to remarks on that i was not defending or stream to since 2012 until last year but due to the dramatic development in the german energy change we need really north stream to because otherwise we could not achieve our own energy so you're prepared to play your energy security to russia our energy security is really the mistake was done 15 years ago when chancellor schroeder went into russian services and therefore we have made these mistakes and very bluntly in this way we politicians and io i would would be very careful because we all are
guilty and that we have named this as a economic project it isn't an economic project it was the one touch of to name this as an economic project it's a purely political one and now we cannot withdraw from it but we have also taken that because we can try to influence russia but i am a not i'm not a defender of more stream 2 for economic reasons i think we really needed to achieve our energy change and we need an influence to. but it is not a good choice let's talk about digital independence there are some security concerns there as well you know u.s. secretary of state my pump a saying here at the munich security conference that huawei is the true course of chinese intelligence. and yet you're not banning it from the bidding process of building your 5 g. network here in germany why well we have some role models like the united kingdom
for example or france they all seem to be in a certain few of losing corporations chances with china but i don't want to be ironic look some of the i only know the german word untender the unturned in the census of 5 g. are made from ryan mittal and they are created in china 100 percent of the way and 10 are made from the germans very interesting practicals but how you know how about the accusations here now we in the parliament have achieved a change in the governmental papers on that and we have achieved that our government has to reconsider some of its position and this was achieved last week so also a strong position also to pilot calm that the leading telecom provider in your country they are already in talks with huawei to buy flights 70 percent of radio transmission gear for 5 d.
i mean those talks are already happening and you're talking in the parliament when georgia telecom is negotiating deals with huawei already well one of the main of the bigger sponsors of the munich security conference as well weigh on the german party convention of the c.d.u. was one of the the biggest attractive platforms was from way so they are in the charming offensive nevertheless we have to be very careful due to the question of digitalisation and cybersecurity we should all be black eyed on this context we've highlighted a number of challenges. who will be the next german chancellor who will have to deal with those challenges lash it melts or shine your answer one word a german citizen. that the 3 words the opportunity to leave we need. it would be somebody from the new i think that really not be somebody from the scene but our kids that are it.
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