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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  December 23, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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neil: closing out this trading day today, another two hours to go, off tomorrow. the markets take a break the final week next week. but interesting look at the 10-year treasury yield at 1.49%. we started the year below 1%. remember that? we were a little .90, around there. got as high as almost 1.8%. amazing step back to look at so-called inflationary threat that didn't materialize so far. now to charles payne. hey, charles. charles: a lot of false alarms. neil. merry christmas my friend, you too. charles: all right. i'm charles payne. this is "making money." two wall street axioms come together at the right moment as wall street climbs off the canvas. tell you what they are at the moment. this is the season of giving. do yourself a favor, watch the show. every day in the future will be christmas. that is what we're trying to do. while never too late we like to be early when it comes to
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finding, sharing ideas. i have the perfect guest for us today. the white house has corner of gaslighting the american public. you remember the chart bragging how much you saved on july 4th cookouts, 16 cents? wait for a chart saving at the pump word to the wise. hope you are not drinking when the number comes on the screen there is bigger risk for this rally. how about a possibility ever war for a top 2022 worry? that is what wall street are talking about. i will ask rebecca walser and larry kudlow for their thoughts. you will. all that and more on "making money." charles: move over peanut butter and chocolate, the combination of the buying the santa claus rally is tastey. s&p 500 rallied 68% of the time.
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following 1% more or decline. there have been 67 santa claus rallies since 1950. it looks like the market is on the autopilot for the rest of 2021. there are issues looming very large. we can look into them, how can we capitalize on the greatest money machine ever. ♪. >> you're a mean one, mr. grinch, you are really a heel. slipper as an eel, mr. grinch. with that music i bring in the panel, gary b. smith. you have your own introduction music. you were the grinch for most of 2021. at times this market looked like it would implode. i told you so smile. a lot of stuff you were worried about came to fruition.
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many stocks got clobbered overall. so with where do we go from here? >> charles, i'm glad you're sitting down because this is going to flabber gast you. i think we go up from here. here is the reason why. i hate, you won't be able to use the grinch song next time when i'm on. but all the things that we talked about, i looked back, it was probably since about july or august, the market didn't go up but it didn't really go down. in fact we've been kind of flat from there. you know what that is. the market just digesting all of the bad news that we talked about. it went sideways. that is so bullish around that really means, charles, that the next leg for 2022, probably starting as you allude to into the christmas rally, probably starts this year. charles: kim forrest, we have momentum right now but most of the funds are still flowing to the usual suspects, particularly technology. does that concern you?
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where should money be focused right now? >> sure. no, i think a lot of the spending in technology makes sense for a lot of reasons. but probably not the names that are, have been driving the market. so, here is what i'm looking at. i'm looking how businesses think about these last two years and how they want to think about the next two years. i think technology can solve a whole lot of their problems. i don't think i'm alone. i think companies are looking for more productive ways to drive their workforce and that means a computer that will help the workforce that they have. so, i'm looking at things like semiconductors, and i'm really trying to look for some software names that add product activity as well. charles: right. >> but business oriented technology i think is the name of the game for 2022 and beyond. charles: i agree 1000%. that cap-ex boom i'm expecting, going to focus on i.t., counter
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inflationary pressures and keep up with all the other business pressures. rob luna, you were a little bit more cautious the last few weeks. some of those concerns you were expressing, have they abated? what are you looking for now? >> we had a tremendous run this year. we got a little cautious about a month ago when we started to see overbout conditions. look, we had the new covid variant come out that was a perfect cover for people to take profits. that is what happened. all we're waiting on positive momentum to get back in. we got above that. we broke the trend line on the mack did. we're bullish next three to six months. if you haven't got into the rally, as gary is saying,. charles: i will come back to you for specific ideas. global market have been on fire since central banks around the world turned on the spigot. the question, what happens when they turn the spigots off. kim, let me start with you on this one. >> sure. i think the answer is it is
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complicated. what it is complicated by the fed just doesn't get to go ahead to do what it wants. it is tied to the hip of the other regions of the world. the world is global. the u.s. has to sell its product and having too strong of a dollar can really impact the u.s. in a negative way. so i think that central banks around the world, while they don't call each other up, we'll raise rates i think they have to be coordinated. so i'm expecting really gentle upward movement of interest rates. charles: right. >> we'll see if that happens. >> gary, meantime, looks like china will be more accommodative for a numbers of reasons. does that to kim's point mitigate what other central banks can do? >> i think it does. i think the other thing, charles, i'm not a big fan of the fed but they have i think telegraphed their move almost perfectly in this case. look we know they will be a little bit more hawkish if you
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will. we know they will increase interest rates but what will they come out with the next time? a quarter point, something like that? any of those increases -- they're pretty much baked into the market. they will be so gradual as kim alluded to i just can't help but think people are already saying yeah, okay, interest rates will go up. what else? charles: yeah. >> i don't think it will hurt the market. charles: certainly won't be man bites dog headlines, right? >> right. charles: i always said earnings are the mother's milk of market rallies but i think buybacks are the caressing touch that helps a lot. i want to ask the panel, what stocks, role of buybacks in general, what stocks may have that bid, if you know, rob, what stocks have a bid because they're such strong buybacks going on? >> look, web 3.0, is all about the decentralization of big tech. i think that will take a while, charles. we're looking no further than names we own already. meta platforms is buying back
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stock in a big way. apple, google, microsoft, that will show support. great names with big balance sheets, supported by the bil big buybacks. let me get your targets and what maybe outperforms start withing you, kim? >> so i think we're going to see a 10% up year at about 5195 for the s&p ends the year and i'm looking for a name that has gotten clobbered this year to rebound a little bit. that is at&t. it is mostly because it is spinning off its media content creation to discovery. i think a little bit of, you know, brushing up on that portfolio will go a whole long way for shareholders. charles: let me talk to, ask my newly christened bull, gary, what is your top idea, gary? >> well, i am going back to your previous thing you were talking about and that's walmart.
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they did almost $2 billion worth of stock buybacks. you know i shop in and out of walmart, depending where i live. we just moved to a place that has a walmart close. i will tell you what, they do a terrific job grocery and hard and soft goods. plus they're buying that stock back. the stock is off all-time highs. i think it has upside. charles: i'm a target man myself but i hear where you're coming from. rob, you teased us good. give us that stock. >> what you want to look at next year my three horsemen. coin boys will catch a rally this stock sold off. nvidia which is powering everything. as rates start to rise, people have a lot less liquidity they will spend on credit cards. capital one is the one you want to use. charles: it is in your wall lit. kim, gary, rob, have a great christmas. always appreciate your insight. coming up my holiday message to
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charles: so this christmas might go down in the record books as the most expensive holiday season for gasoline but this is not stopping holiday travel. madison alworth is at a gas station in pam at tampa, florid. reporter: charles, prices are high but americans are still hitting the road. 100 million are expected to drive this christmas but they will pay big bucks not just for prices under the tree but at the pump as well. the national average gas price, that sits at $3.29 it could get down to 3.25 by christmas. even though that is 15-cents cheaper than a month ago, we're still paying near record highs
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and depending what actually happens, could be the highest in history. the last time we paid gas higher than this was back in 2013. gas buddy says that was the last time gas was highest at christmas, $3.26, just one pen anymore than we're expected to pay. but the high prices are not slowing americans down when it comes to travel. 100 million will drive. we're estimating 109 million in total will travel. these are all estimates, there could be some changes because of resurgence of covid cases. peel may fly or stay home all together. we're watching the aftermath of the exxonmobil plant accident near houston this morning. the baytown fire caught fire, injuring are four employees this portion of the plant produces gasoline. the white house is telling fox business it is watching the situation. depending what happens there, that could have a impact on the price of gasoline across the
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u.s. charles? charles: madison, thank you very much, appreciate it. now folks, you know, i championed the new investor revolution before the media knew it was happening. charles schwab calls the newbie in the market are generation investors. 28% are short-term trading. down 44% last year, rather. obviously a lot of folks have gotten shaken out of this strategy. now there is big money to be made for active traders. it takes special qualities. i always say more than just special tools that matter. joining me the daily dirt nap editor. darren, your service name is the coolest ever. daily dirt nap, i'm so jealous. got to tell the audience a little bit about your background as a trader. >> i started off trading on the floor of the options exchange in the 1999. that is where i got the name dirt nap. a lot of traders were using the word dirt nap down there i got hired by lehman brothers in 2001.
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i traded index arbitrage for a few years. i was head of the etf trading desk from 2004 to 2008. i left at the bankruptcy and i started the newsletter. charles: did your experiences there good and bad, i think that really forged, what became the foundation for what you do now? >> well, my experience at lehman brothers was absolutely incredible. i mean, the name lehman brothers is kind of odious because of the bankruptcy but it was absolutely an incredible firm. i worked with incredible people. it was the most entrepreneurial place i could ever possibly imagine. i have very good memories of it. charles: so let's talk about trading starting with with a good trader. personally i look at it almost like a poker player, right? the real good poker players have patience, discipline and it sounds contradictory to say they wait for the right moment but what do you think? what are some of the typical things a good trader would need? >> i actually thought about this
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a couple years ago and i came up with three trades that make a good trader. they are intelligence, experience, emotional fitness. intelligence is just raw smarts. smarter traders tend to be better although that isn't as you the case. i have known some average people have been phenomenal traders. experience, experience counts for a lot. i've been doing this for 22 years. you start to see the same set-ups over and over again and there is a lot of benefit to experience and one of the unfortunate things is a lot of the banks on wall street don't value experience once you get to be above 45, they let those folks go and replace them with younger people. emotional fitness, happy, confident people tend to make better traders. people who are neurotic, depressed not confident, tend to do worse. charles: conversely, a lot of newbies came in the market
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started trading, that number according to walk has been cut in half. what do you think they did wrong? >> i think they over traded too much. i'm not a fan of zero commission environment we're in. this started with robinhood back in 2019. schwab went to zero commission and all the other brokerages went to zero commissions. it helps to have some frictional cost associated with trading. if you think about any good that is free, people tend to overconsume free goods. if there is a buffet, what do people do? they take as much as they can. the same thing is true with trading f trade something free, people do do too much of it they chop themselves a bit around should buy and hold. charles: that is absolutely fantastic. i wish we had more time. i hope you come back. i definitely want to pick your brain some more. >> my pleasure, charles. charles: president biden
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bragging about store shelves not being empty even though a lot of them are, as china continues to make moves to dominate the world. i can't wait to get larry kudlow's take. he is coming right up. not only shelves the biden administration is celebrating but gas prices slipping? get ready to adjust your household budget when i share the news how much you're saving when we come back. ♪. ♪♪ care. it has the power to change the way we see things. ♪♪ it inspires us to go further. ♪♪ it has our back. and goes out of its way to help. ♪♪ when you start with care, you get a different kind of bank.
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that's why we recommend salonpas. it's good medicine. ♪. charles: yesterday, president biden took a victory lap on inflation and bragged store shelves were full. today the administration continues to push the narrative including a chart from white house deputy communications director. just when you thought the 4th of july inflation chart, perhaps the most disingenuous
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ever, look at this bad boy. i bring in rebecca walser. when you look at it it is pretty impressive, all these big bars reflect a tencent decline in gasoline prices. i'm glad the inflation thing is over. your thoughts? >> we can surmise we can make a chart look great no matter what we're talking about. expecting to have gas at $3.25, one cent below the highest christmas ever which was 2013. the gas prices are a big fail for the administration this season. charles: inflation is a monster. this morning we got the latest on income and spending. i saw a few red flags as i went into data. real income down 0.2%. real income unchanged. pce inflation from a year ago, highest since 1982. i want to get your thoughts what does the persistent inflation mean for the economy as our
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savings continue to crumble? >> that is exactly right. we were saving 5.7 trillion on annual lieded basis in we're burning through our savings and only saving 1.3 trillion on annualized basis in october. what this tells us trial, we saved while getting bump ups while federal stimulus, since that ended we're exiting moving through our savings. we'll have major problems. the reason we haven't seen a huge impact on the economy because people did a good job of saving when they didn't realize what coronavirus will be. now we're spending through that and inflation sustained could lead into hyperinflation if the federal reserve, doesn't taper, or pull back interest rates or raise them, rather. we have a lot of tricky things coming ahead of this federal reserve navigating a taper with a interest rate increase to control inflation. we do not want a hyperinflation environment, charles. if we keep spending like mmters want us to we'll get
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hyperinflation. charles: reel quick, what does it mean for corporate profits? i think they have hit a ceiling how much they can afford to pass the costs on. people will not continue to pay the high price. >> we can't afford it. it is insanity. i wanted to say something with biden with the store shelves not being empty. are you kidding me? i literally bought a piece of furniture in september it will not be delivered until april. don't kid yourself, there went to a store and it had shelves. a lot of stores have the fake stuff up. they will have to cut profits, people will have to pay for more expensive items. that is what will happen. charles: the white house is not being honest compared to what walmart able to do with their own private ships versus mom-and-pop shops. >> thank you. charles: less than a minute to go. let's squeeze this in. this morning majority whip clyburn tested positive for covid. the at time he was 7th member of congress. couple more since then.
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what stood out to me the communique it took him 56 hours, 56 hours to get his results. so i'm wondering, we'll do this mass effort to distribute 500 million test kits. if we don't get, if it takes 5hours to get real good results, i don't know, rebecca? >> no. charles, this doesn't work. i travel internationally. i have to results same day to get on a plane. this administration changes if you're coming back international you have to have rults within 24 hours to get on the plane. home tests with a 72-hour, 56-hour window is not going to work. it is not going to work. this administration will really need an expert at logistics to step into this role to figure out what they're doing. so far it is not going well. charles: i'm glad you got the memo on the right color to wear today. i want you to have a merry christmas. appreciate your expertise. >> thank thank you, charles. charles: i want to bring in my friend kenny polcari. in the real world, i use the
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world real, what about bond yields, stock yields, inflation erased them. what does that do for the stock market. i talked to rebecca about the broader economy but i want to zero in on the impact for the market on this. >> listen, thanks for having me, charles, merry christmas. if it continues at the pace it is going to go i think it is negative for the stock market, right? if this is the high the way they tell us is will start to back up i think market is okay but if inflation continues to spin out of control, the fed is forced to raise rates at bigger increments, it will be a tough road to hoe for the stock market completely. stocks in general. value might hold up better than growth but a tough road in general. charles: to that point, i want to ask you about margin compression. i want companies with the ability of pricing power. those stocks always outperform but it seems like it will be fewer and fewer of those names. >> might be fewer and fewer but the ones that can, they are
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consumer staple names. tech names have pricing power. those names continue to have it. we've seen it over the last six or seven months. all the companies, kellogg, pepsi, colgate all raised their prices not once, night twice, but multiple times and they keep telling you they will raise them again because they have that ability and the power to do it, right? charles: of course the consumer staple names have straight inflation. that product you have to hold with two hand you find yourself jug juggling two of them with one. airlines, travel, hotels all of them sizzling of course. i'm curious about. is in your mind a catchup trade? the variant is starting to subside a little bit? is this the beginning after sustainable rally here? >> with, i think it is kind of both. reminds you have the engle bother humber ding song, meese
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release lee. airlines are full, hotels are full. prices are out of control. it is up triple digits. it is not stopping people from going. i don't think it's a catchup trade, as we move through this people get comfortable with endemic, no longer a pandemic, that people get back to living life and enjoying it. charles: you brought up englebert humperdink he heard that. perked up. kenny, give me top ideas in 2022? >> we had this conversation again, for someone in my age group, i'm into i blm. i think i blm has set it up self for the cloud, metaverse, turned itself into 21st century tech company. has 5.6% dividend. generates 10 million in free cash flow. look at glaxosmithkline, another good dividend payer. set itself up for prong strong
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performance. get into the younger set, metaverse for longer term. i don't have that much time. they might. charles: you have a lot of time. you might need more time for i blm. i have been bunter so much on that bad boy. we'll see. sooner or later they live up to the hype. kenny, you always do though. have a merry christmas. >> merry christmas. charles: let me ask you all what do you think the biggest risk for this market going into 2022? tweet me @cvpayne. i love to hear the idea. meantime war is topping a lot of the things on the list. i'm really curious about it. we have the great larry kudlow coming up to talk about that and also how we're losing and china unfortunately is winning. we'll be right back. ♪.
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♪. charles: bloomberg took a survey of risks for the market next year there were a couple sure russ surprises including war at number three. maybe reflects how our adversaries have been emboldened, because for me no way in my mind the market will be prepared for war. i have the host of "kudlow" with me, larry kudlow. larry, your thoughts, war at number three was a shock to me. >> probably the bigger shock to me how many documents you made -- charles: [laughter] >> got this. and this. and this. i feel like merry christmas. you're not going to get to your thesis. charles: no one can say we didn't do our homework. >> like a dummy i red all of this stuff because of my -- i was surprised with the war. i'm not sure what that means. i was thinking china, but china is down here below war. so that is an odd thing t may be
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the putin ukraine talk, i don't know. charles: yeah. >> number one is inflation. charles: right. >> by a wide margin. and that is a very important. we have lousy inflation number today. the fed's preferred measure, the broadest measure, the consumer price deflator. almost 6% on the top line number and almost 5% on the core. now that, those are bad numbers. they confirmed the cpi. they confirmed the ppi. here is the deal. judy shelton's op-ed, she is coming on the show, the fed will not end with less than 1% fed funds target later in the year. they're praying that inflation, magically, we're on christmas, looking for immaculate conception. the fed has got to go to work. they have got to sell bonds. they have to raise the fed funds
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target rate just like they used to do. it is the most efficient thing. the longer they way the worse it will be. that is my warning to investors. inflation is number one. the fed has got to act. if they don't act, that will help the stock market in the short run but kill it in the long run. it is stagflation thing if they just wait and wait and wait. charles: they need a volcker moment. >> well-put. they need a volcker moment. i don't know, you know, jay powell, i know the guy. i hate to speak ill, he is a very nice man. we had lunch for three years. he doesn't strike me as a volcker guy. charles: right. >> here is my other point, the bidens will put all kinds of woke climate change people on the federal reserve board, okay? they will rebel against tighter money that is a problem. i would say powell has three months before they get nominated and confirmed, maybe four months. he should act now to beat inflation an to beat the biden
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woke attack coming from the fed. charles: ironically joe manchin saying no might have bout powell more time. you don't have the extra money that might have exacerbated inflation problem more. >> by the way, manchin, who has been great, manchin's original memo to chuck schumer. charles: oh, yeah. >> said end qe. just saying. charles: the one that chuck schumer didn't show the rest of the world. >> that's right. charles: at the bottom of the list, stagflation. i saw an article in the business insider a week ago saying anyone talking about stagflation a week ago, this summer was all wrong. this morning i heard larry summers who is sort of basking in the sun that he has been right lately -- >> he got 24 right. one time in a row but gets a lot of credit. charles: he is calling for recession followed by stagflation next year. any chance of that? >> yeah, there is a chance of that. i mean i think, when you get these large inflations, we have not had them long time, 40
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years, big inflation. charles: right. >> you're at 6% on the personal consumption deflator and 7% on the cpi and 10% on the ppi. so the fed is going to have to crack down. i don't know when. the sooner the better. that is going to damage the economy. you got to take your licks. it is also going to damage the stock market. i say the sooner the better. now if the bidens or whoever, because i think the republicans will win the midterms, let's not stifle the supply side of the economy with overtaxation and overregulation. that's a key issue. they are dampening supply with their proposals which have not yet gone through. it is like the fed is pumping in money for demand but the tax and regulations are killing supply. too much money chasing too few goods. the way to beat stagflation is large-scale tax cuts and regulatory withdrawal. yesterday was the fourth anniversary, charles, of president trump's signing of the
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2017 tax cut. charles: yeah. >> which was a historic tax cut. there was no stagnation or stagflation. charles: we've done good since then. including shortest recession on record in the midst of the worldwide pandemic that shut down the entire planet. that is good stuff. we have to leave it there. we didn't get through all my notes but we did pretty good. >> i will go upstairs and finish reading. >> make sure you watch "kudlow" every weekday, 4:00 p.m. eastern right here on fox business. love you, larry, merry christmas. >> merry christmas. we'll be right back. ♪ limu emu... & doug ♪ ♪ superpowers from a spider bite? i could use some help showing the world how liberty mutual customizes their car insurance so they only pay for what they need. (gasps) ♪
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while i don't ask for anyone's approval i insist on basic respect. here is the rub. when it comes to pursuing our dreams it is easy to be derailed. that is why commitment against long odds creates legends, doing what they say can't be done makes you a legend, inspiring others is what creates legend the. i love my friends in the investing ape community. they are the personification of america. they have their own idea how to approach the stock market and they never ask anyone for their opinion. unfortunately just as america has its detractors from day one a lot of folks out there were rooting against the apes. i've come to their defense over and over again because i want them to succeed. i applaud anyone trying to change their life through investing. with that i like to bring in trey's trades, trey collins. trey, there won't be any elephants in the room in our segment. we know what is going on twitter and elsewhere. i don't want to make this on one person. you were on board coming on today since the beginning of the
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week to discuss this movement. i don't want to necessarily do a feud. what i want to say i bought $100,000 worth of gamestop and amc. i love the apes. i want to show solidarity. i think it is so important for people to be motivated by naysayer. don't lose sight of the goal, you know what i mean? >> absolutely, charles. people have a pretty good head on their shoulders, intuition being able to recognize those who do stand up against naysayers and specific naysayers that might need lawyers but at the end of the day it is exactly about what you mentioned, fight for your neighbor, try to make the holiday season better. charles: you, by the way are the personification of the apes. that is why i love you. i love your story. i'm glad you always come on. with that in mind, often what happens is, this is by the way a wall street gimmick, how did you perform in a certain year, because nobody starts from zero, right? investing is not monopoly. we don't start at go with zero. it's a wall street marketing
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gimmick. nevertheless the calendar turns attention spans can wane. people move on to other things. with that in mind, what is next do you think with the investing ape movement as we move into 2022? will it be as strong? >> you know my favorite thing i see kind of get pitched is the idea of the music will eventually stop playing and people will just forget. but if history has taught us anything you can look at darwinism people have two choices, adapt and evolve or die. i think at the end of the day retail investors just want to learn, they want to educate themselves, adapt to the market, perhaps adapt the market itself. i don't see that going away with the flip of the calendar. charles: earlier this year you were interviewed. you said amc would be around 25 bucks at the end of the year. obviously higher than that i thought that was a sobering target but a mature target. i'm beginning to think this price where it is now might be considered low.
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"spider-man" success is amazing. "batman" is coming up. there are signs that people want to go out movies. they want to go to the movies. with that in mind have you changed your target based on fundamentals by the way? >> absolutely. six months ago i think the fundamental value of amc $25 you don't think that sort of thing will come to fruition in that sense but i think, ultimately raised my target a pretty decent chunk. the reason for that being i think amc trades like tesla, forward earnings. what is the potential of the company? what condition they do one year from now, three years from now and five years from now. you can see they're revolutionizing the theater franchise company space. the nmt are way for companies to raise capital without issuing stock to create their own or investors like to buy something in that neck of the woods. i think amc is much better position than year ago.
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i think they are leading the revolution, the movie theater franchise will be around another century. charles: less than a minute to go. they're giving me the wrap signal. what do you say to the detractors, for me it is motivation and i just let them watch my success. over the years they watch, they watch, they grit their teeth and watch and watch and there is nothing they can do about it. what would you say to them? >> you know what i would say a year ago i don't think very many people thought we would be in the shoes we're in now with voices as loud as they are, with people being recognized for their intelligence, their education, their entrepreneurship and look forward. don't look back. you can't connect dots looking forward, looking back at something steve jobs did in 2005. i truly believe that we can take a step forward every day to try to be better as a community and educate others. i don't think that fire is going anywhere. charles: trey, god bless you, god bless the investing apes. merry christmas. don't ever give up. >> merry christmas to you.
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my man. charles: market is up but internals are still questionable. in fact it has been real ugly until now. what do we do? we avoid adco laps or capitalize rather on there is serious value under all this green? we'll be right back. ♪. ...
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charles: well, it's another good season for the market but i've got another good session but inside this market there's still a lot of carnage, and dumpster fires coming into the session only 41% of the names in the russel and 3% in the nasdaq were trading above their 200 day average so the chart doesn't do justice to the level of damage, but successful investing is all about avoiding those crashes and if you can, capitalizing on them i want to bring in mitch roschelle. mitch, give me your general observation. just this week, what we saw last week, how vulnerable we looked on monday, assess this kind of turnaround. does it mean something big perhaps ahead? >> i think it does, charles. i take this all the way back to the friday after thanksgiving where the news from south africa
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came out. there were cases in europe, and it caught the market flat-footed on that short trading session friday. the markets been kind of moving sideways, getting smacked in the face a couple of times because it was a big unknown what could the omicron variant be, moreover what could government do to slow down the economy, but now as we are learning more about it and realize it may not be the public health threat that we thought, i think the markets optimism is a lot stronger than its pessimism and it's rallying into the end of the year and i think it sets up well for the first quarter and maybe all of 2022. i'm back to being bullish, charles. charles: that's what i'm talking about, the old mitch i know and love. hey you know what's interesting, on monday, right? there was a lot of folks in the media trying to connect the dots to build back better in the market sell-off. you could slide it in at gdp a call from goldman which was nuts so the market has soared from those lows so maybe the market does like the idea of no more free money, exacerbating inflation, and also the higher
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taxes that will go along with it can we start to now glean a positive message from the fact that manchin is a no. >> manchin is a no and i think that there's some wispers that there's some other no's and manchin is a leading edge of the very important or tip of the speer, i should say, in terms of pushing back on the administration's wreckless plans to spend and potentially tax and spend, so i think that it sets up for grid lock, markets historically have loved gridlock, and maybe that's what we'll have going into the mid-terms a lot of gridlock, nothing gets done and we don't inflate the economy with print ing money we can't afford to payback. charles: mitch i know you said you look at this momentum at least in the first quarter and beyond, but how choppy will it be? in other words will it still be something of a stock pigger's market? >> i think it's a stock picker 's market and also an index picker's market. there are going to be a lot of dips, the markets going to hang on news stories i'm sure there will be a theta variant or zet
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a that comes out and the market will freak out over it. i think those dips are buying opportunities and there's a lot of dry powder and those who don't buy the dips are going to find themselves at the end of 2022 wishing they had. charles: of course it wouldn't be a mitch roschelle segment if i didn't ask you about the arkk fund. still under a lot of pressure a lot of people ganging up on it, a counter-eft that goes up when the arkk fund goes down are you still in that, still think it's the way to go? long term. >> i do. its been a tough year for arkk and some of the other funds that kathy manages, and i think that's a perfect opportunity to follow what i said previously. i think we're sitting in the dip that at the end of 2022 you could regret that you didn't buy charles: real quick do you have a favorite idea going into the new year? >> yeah, i like financials. i like dividend payers, maybe it's because i'm sort of partial retiree,, so i like fixed income , but i like dividend payers i like financials, i
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think if you look at 202 and what could happen i think we're going to see m & a activity, high trading volume, low growth for banks, rising interest rates which means net interest margin goes up. i think that financials are the place to be. charles: mitch have a fantastic christmas, and a great new year. always appreciate your expertise and as i hand it over to my colleague liz claman, we've got a nice little rally going on. you month what's interesting, liz? bond yields are up, stocks are up including tech stocks this is one of those sessions where everything is up. liz: yeah, you made a great point there. there are some really bad performers over the year, but let's just forget about that for now, charles have a great day. charles: thank you. liz: charles is right the bulls are giving investors an early holiday gift at this hour on this day before the night before christmas. the s&p 500 we need to flag you on this , is about to notch its 68th record of 2021 pumped up today by some really solid

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