tv Justice With Judge Jeanine FOX News June 14, 2020 12:00am-1:00am PDT
to follow me on instagram and twitter. and remember, i am jesse watters and this is my world. ♪ ♪ judg>> he tried to get away, tht what it looked like. they would not let him get away. they were hell bent on stopping him. so yes getting away from a situation that could be detrimental to you also turned into a situation that was detrimental to you. you can't get out of it. that's probably what happened but we can't speak to it.
i always try to look at from these situations to look at what it justified for the officer. i don't want to look at something totally unfairly. if they had shot while the tussle was going on and they said he reached for my gun. that's normally how this happens. they are fighting for the gun and they shoot right then. that's not what happened. if this would have happened while they were rolling on the ground. okay, maybe. that didn't happen. they didn't feel like their life was in danger while they were tussling on the ground and grabbing things. they waited until he ran off. so their justification went out the door. >> we got a check on the emotional state of these
officers. it gets personal. this is a thing when you are in the field, it's a personal thing. but they have to divorce themselves from that emotional aspect of that job. if you don't someone can die like we saw with that officer and george floyd. it can get personal. we understand. big guys wres withing and fighting. but at a certain point the professional in you has to come out and you have to calm down and be the professional and show you had training. it definitely didn't happen last night. >> a father work at a tortilla place. family loves him to death. we had more family members at that house today than i could count.
a ton of brothers and sisters that love him more than life. he was supposed to take his daughter skating today for her birthday. i'm sick of going to somebody's house and their little kid is playing with us and we are sitting there trying to laugh with a 1-year-old or 2-year-old or 8-year-old knowing -- you know, that they willer in see their dad again. i am literally sick of it. >> she had on her birthday dress because she was waiting for her dad to pick her up to go skating. yesterday her and her dad went. she got her nails done, and her toes done. they got something to eat. while we were over there, they had a birthday party for her. it was her 8th birthday with
cupcake while we were sitting there talking to her mom about what her dad is not coming home. that's the part we see he day that everybody doesn't see. it's terrible. >> when you think five years ago, 0 years, 20 years for killing a man. what do you say? >> that's literally the case that pops to my mind the whole time i was sitting there. it's just like walter scott. people forgot about that case because it's been so long. they said the same thing. he took my taser and i thought him while we were wrestling for the taser. once we got our hands on the video we saw he shot him in the back 30 yards away. in that case they tried the
whole could have killed me with a taser argument and it didn't work. it literally brings back memories of walter scott. even watch him get shot in the back just like walter scott. it was really horrible hearing the witnesses saying they were picking up shell casings because that happened in walter scott. the officer threw the taser close to the dead body. it's just horrible to be reliving the walter scott case again. and one thing we want to make sure people know. we don't think these are one-offs. we know they are not. we are seeing them more and more. it's just because tell is getting better. there are more cameras he where. and we are seeing more of this stuff. buff it's the same stuff, it's been happening. you can't lie in your report because there is a camera that
will get you. you can't make up some story because there is a camera that will get you. you can't throw a taser close to somebody because there is a camera that will come get you. we saw what happened last night. while mr. brooks was not perfect, he could have done a couple things, too. but the officer had the last best chance to stop that from happening. he had the most training to stop that from happening. and that resulted in our client's death. >> what led to the struggle. >> they are confused because they thought the conversation appeared civil or decent. out of the blue they said they tried to arrest him and he got upset and pulled away, why? what are you all doing? and it went from there. if you are not going to explain
why you are going to arrest somebody, i'm -- why am i not getting arrested? i can ask what's going on. why can't you have a conversation about what he's being arrested. >> [inaudible] >> they were speaking outside of the vehicle from what they said. so he got out. but this just happened yesterday. we are still talking to people. but of he witness, white, black, they are blown away because this should not have happened. there was no reason for him to shoot him while he was running off. this wasn't a violent crime. they had an i.d. they had the car. writes he going? >> the value of life has gone
somewhere. like a video game. where you just think you shoot somebody and it's not an actual father or human being. i'm starting to lose faith i've known you for years and i have never seen you like this. i know you are tired, you are sad, you are mad. >> that's not going to change. we'll keep fighting these as long as we have to. and making sure people get fired or resign or war or put in jail. we have to do our part to try to make it stop. one things we realize is it's a national effort. black, white, male, female. "people" conservative or can't want to speak up or say anything, you have got to speak up. you have got to speak up.
>> whenever there is training [inaudible] the officers [inaudible] nature of the training? >> we have covered millions. we know there are so many loopholes. there is no clear time of when the shoot -- when to shoot or not shoot. it's always in the mind of the officer. sometimes they are not well. they are too age right or too upset. it should be you cannot shoot someone unless they are pointing a gun at you. you just can't shoot them if they have a taser or a knife and they are 50 feet away. or you go to jail. there are definite rules lining that. lawyers have rules. doctors have rules. you can't leave something in somebody's body. with police officers it's such a gray area.
being a police officer is the most powerful job in this country. no other job where you take life, liberty or freedom. there is no job that is as powerful as a police officer. they should be up on the standard of doctors and lawyers and looked at like that. but they are not. and that's got to change. >> to the training question. it need to be joe all. we need to focus more on de-escalation and militarization. they walk around the neighborhoods, some of them are assault rifles. they are armed to the teeth, and they are walking around people and inciting fear. there used to be a time when police would walk around and they know hour name and they know where you went a school and all that stuff. that time is over.
especially in the black community. now that time is completely over. we need to focus the police department more on de-escalation. if officers are going to be in the community, check and see how close these police live to that community where they police. i will guarantee they live nowhere night. and if they did, check to see what kind of contact they they had in that community. if they did, they would understand these are people, too, maybe i can deal with them the same way i deal with people who live close to me. that had a lot to the do with empathy and training for de-escalation and not militarization. >> trying to solve this, we'll be releasing our thoughts and ideas over on what changes we think code this from having handled so many of these. something is going to happen not just lawsuits and asking for --
thank you all. the family will be speaking on sunday. they need some time. thank you all judge jeanine: breaking tonight, more turmoil. the chief police resigned after the shooting by two police officers. what a week in america. my opening statement still ahead. but the unrest in america goes on. in addition to more protests over the death of george floyd, the chief police in atlanta has resigned after a deadly shooting caught on tape. police responded to a wendy's drive-thru after a man has fallen asleep in his car block
customers. they tried to arrest him. he resisted. you can see there was a fight. the man is believed to have grabbed one of the officer's tasers. he fled, pointed it towards one of the cops. that's when the man was shot and killed. you just heard from the man's attorneys. as we reported the chief of police has resigned. joining me now to talk about all of this as well as the situation in atlanta, former secret service agent dan bongino who testified this week on police reform. and former new york police commissioner, bernard kerik. we have allegations that the police can't shoot someone if he's armed only with a taser. and that the police need to spend more time on de-escalation as opposed to militarization.
i will go to you, commissioner kerik first. what are your thoughts on what you heard so far. >> i hear the on say using a taser against the officer is not deadly force. but the mayor of atlanta had six cops fired a week nafd ago for using a taser on a couple in the car and the district attorney charged them with using deadly physical force. five of those cops were black. they fired them saying they used deadly force. real quick, judge. everybody is calling for reforms all over the country today. i have to tell you, i think there are some reforms that need to be talked about and the radical left wing progressive mayors and governors, they can start with reforms like tell the thugs in your community don't assault our police.
don't resist arrest. don't obstruct or interfere with an arrest. don't run from police. don't run cops over with your car. don't take their tasers or weapons or guns if you do, we'll use force. and we are not going to lose if we use force. judge jeanine: police are trained to respond in a certain way. that will be the issue for me if there is a trial here. you have been a police officer and secret service agent. what do you think is the problem, if there is a problem at all? >> regarding the press conference we just heard by the tons, there are a couple things they mentioned, the man died. it's tragic. i'm not making light of what happened. he was a father.
but what they said wasn't true. that doesn't make the emotions surrounding this, it doesn't make what is not true true. they say it's understandable he's trying to get away. well, that may be for him, but it's in fact illegal. resisting arrest is a crime. if you don't like that, change the laws. i want to be sheer what you are suggesting if you are suggesting that's not a crime. do you think anyone can throw blows at the cops and take their weapons and run from them. did he deserve to die? that's cat goirkally no. but saying there should be some equal level of force applied here. that's not the use of form continuum works. if someone points at your taser
that they stole from you after assaulting you, you don't have to pull your taser and have a taser fight. if they pull a knife out, you don't have to get into a knife fight. if the subject dies, that's tragic. nobody shoots to kill. cops are trained to shoot to kill. judge jeanine: i am going to go to the commissioner. if what you are saying is that police officers in atlanta were fired because they used tasers and the chief believes that equivalent to deadly physical force, that isn't going to play in a courtroom. the questions they will ask in a courtroom is did the police think they were being confronted with deadly physical force and did they feel they needed to shoot this person. but beyond that i want to read something from cbs 46 in
atlanta. they say officers administered a field sobriety test which brooks reportedly failed. when they attempted to make an arrest a struggle ensued as brooks resisted. that's contrary to what the lawyers were saying. >> that's because the investigation hasn't been concluded yet. the investigation just started. it would be nice before you fired them and got rid of them and bash them in the press like the mayor has done, you my want to conclude the investigation. but i want to touch on one more thing. this is what dan was getting to, i think. that taser, although it may not be considered deadly physical force, any time you have the ability to incapacitate a police officer with a taser and then you can go for his side arm, then in my opinion the officer has the right to stop you.
and in this case that's what they did. dan bongino this is important. a gun comes top every fight a police officer is in. if you hit him with his baton, you can take his gun. the police officer brings the gun to the gunfight every single time. but bernie said is absolutely accurate. judge jeanine: i want to take a listen to the sound from one of the attorneys for brooks. >> if this officer today had been a little more empathetic and a bit less scared, then we probably wouldn't have a dead client. we wouldn't be here talking to you like we are right now. judge jeanine: i will go to you, commissioner kerik. what do you think of that? >> i think it's ludicrous. how does he know what the
officers were thinking at the time? i have to tell you, unless you have been in the position yourself when you have been overpowered by a prisoner or suspect or target of an investigation. unless you have bin there, you have no conception of what that's like. you are retrade for your -- you are afraid for your lived, you are afraid of having your gun taken from you. monday morning quarterbacks like those lawyers, they have never been in that position and they don't have the courage to be in it. >> bernie is absolutely correct. judge jeanine: don't you think also that what of what's going on in society where police are vilified. they are treated like -- almost less than human, water thrown at them new york city and cans
thrown at them. don't you think that adds to the resistance from some people to the police. and authority is gone. respect is gone. and there are people to blame for that. >> respect is a two-way street. and yes we have the most powerful job in the world, police officers. we have to do better. we have the power to take a life and take someone's freedom. we have to do better. we are not allowed to make mistakes. people in baseball they strike out 7 out of 10 times, they are a hero. even president trump does not have the power of a police officer. we have to do better, i get that. but respect is a two-way street. these are the finest men and women i ever worked with. these are the best. judge jeanine: what i am saying is that in certain communities they have been trained to hate the police so much that they
don't respect the police, and they get in trouble because the police end up doing what they are trained to do. >> judge, you are absolutely right. it's a two-way street. you have to understand, these are moms, dads, there are some bad seeds, i get it, but these are people's brothers and sisters, soccer coaches. these guys are in the community responding to a radio run. they didn't know this man. this wasn't their neighbor, they didn't stop next door to say hello. they were there because someone was concerned. why do you think they are doing this. do you know how many guys are injured or killed every year? your job, thank god you don't get attacked three or four times a year like bernie and i. remember officer so and so? he's dead. you don't get those calls.
we do. it's a two-way street. show some respect for police officers and they will show you respect back. if they don't, file a complaint. if they don't, you are entitled to do that. judge jeanine: in galveston county in texas there was a meeting of the police chiefs and sheriffs. with the community they started the conversation. but that's not something that's new. this has been happening for years, community policing? >> it's been happening for years and in most communities. most, i say you have phenomenal relationships between the police and community leaders. the problem i see in atlanta is somewhat like what we see in seattle. they took over a 6-block area of the occupied zone, a bunch of thugs. in atlanta it looks like they took over the mayor and city
council. the mayor is victimizing the thugs and villainizing the cops who go out there every day for people he don't know. they responded to a job. a guy resisted arrest. he assaulted them. he attacked them. he ran, he attempted to shoot the cop with a taser and he died as a result. which is tragic. but it wouldn't have happened if he didn't resist. judge jeanine: i think in the end, obviously sympathies to the family of rashard. but people have to understand law enforcement has this power. we have another law enforcement expert coming up. the former chief of the milwaukee police department. congressssssssss safety
but body armor is important to keep those who bravely serve our communities safe. i think the shrill voices on the left calling for violence against police have blood on their hands. we need to deescalate the tensions. when you have folks out there demonizing police, they make our community less safe. judge jeanine: people demonizing america, america is at fault. there is so much hate coming from the left. it seems to me it's okay to hate police and it's okay to not listen to police. they are suffering the results of the consequences of that. police are trained to do certain things. we are trained, all of us, to respect authority. that seems to be gone now.
>> when president trump went to orlando area he called on us to be one nation in respond together discord in our community. quite opposite for people retweeting accounts calling for people to bring water balloons full of milk to throw at obscure people's windshields. that's an attack on the people in our country. that's not to resolve our tensions. if we stop the anti-police rhetoric, we would improve our actions. in california and oregon they are taking the place out of school whereas they serve to help our children and protect them. i think it's good when children have interaction with police early in life and it's not an
adversarial relationship. judge jeanine: thank you, congressman. this week we saw congressional hearings on police reforms and calls across the nation to defund police. and of course more people are take together streets. joining me, former chief of the milwaukee police department, ed flynn. your take on what's going on in atlanta. obviously we don't have everything. we don't know everything yet. but this certainly is not a good thing to happen at this time. >> it's a channel evaluating what actually happened. i think before your program started you saw one of the disadvantages under which officials labor. the attorneys had half an hour of unfiltered access to a vast audience laying his case before
the public while the city is put in the position of doing a methodical investigation that will or will not result in a charge. it seems to speed up events and retard the ability of decision makers to make sound decisions. what i can say, i am very sorry to see her resign. she was working with that police department to improve its services and improve its relations with the community. judge jeanine: i understand that as well. i don't have a lot of time but i want to get to one issue with you. you started as a cop in new jersey, a police chief in milwaukee. you were in arlington, virginia. you were there on 9/11 when the
plane hit the pentagon. when you hear people say things like, when the police show up with their kevlar and flack jackets, it makes us angry and makes us feel like we have to fight back when they come into our neighborhoods looking like that. what do you have to say to people who have that mentality? >> it's difficult to talk to people who made up their minds. we have to rely on the professionalism, our discipline, our idealism. our courage and restraint to manage crowds. we are placed in the position of protecting life, protecting constitutional rights and protecting prompt. the fact of the matter is our discipline and restraint is never more important than when we are the objects of the disaffection. i happen to know they are exhausted. i think america has a stake in
the morale of our officers. it's difficult to see a profession that spends owl of its time providing essential services to communities to be accused of being racists and brutes. it's unabated. judge jeanine: the need for the police is note abated. you were chief of milwaukee for 11 years. when you went into the inner city. when your officers went there, did you -- was there special training that they had? was there a resistance to go there? was it like the southside of chicago where people will get shot every weekend? how did your officers take going into the inner cities? did they think it was dangerous for them? >> police officers in our city
were there because the people who live in them wanted them there. the highest rate of calls for police was in the disadvantaged parts of milwaukee. they are the ones whose children are shot going to school and on playgrounds. the angry people who take to the rights and mont no mont. they work with their cops. and i have never gone to a community meeting where they asked for fewer cops. any captured video of police misconduct that goes on to be part of the ongoing twoors seize
judge jeanine: the ongoing situation in atlanta where protesters are back in the streets after the shooting death of the rayshard brooks as well as what happened in seattle and across the country has everyone taking a closer look. law and order is essential. without law and order there is no freedom. without law and order, freedom ends. without law and order, there is an ay. what happened -- there is an ay.
what happened in seattle is a small example of how far the left will goat to surrender our streets to extremists of wait would be like without law and order and we can't have it. i said last week that sadistic torturous murder of george floyd deserved the harshest punishment. not just murder 2, murder 1. there is much that needs to change. it's why we have a congress, state legislature, school boards, community organizations. that's why we have elections. but american cities subjected to domestic terrorism is a scene reminisce and much some futuristic movie like escape from new york where the ghost lets criminals govern themselves where lawlessness and anarchy.
the burning of property, including churches in all allegedly in the name of george floyd. liberal democrat mayors and governors have surrendered to rioters, anarchists and looters allowing them to "blow off steam." we watched the same nap seattle on the mayor's order thinking this can't be america. this must be some third world country. we cannot have it. now permit me to have a politically incorrect question. how many families in this country whose loved ones were victims of homicide were aloud to pillage and plunder to blow
off steam because system didn't work the way it was supposed to. when the rights hop subjugated by those wanting change. when they want to change things bi' defunding police. taking large chunks of police budgets and limiting police response on calls for domestic violence which is one of the most dangerous calls police respond to. i fare for battered womb -- i fear for battered women. is that even a negotiable issue? or do we wait until the first social worker or mental health worker is killed and then demand the cops be brought back? in seattle, the capitol hill
autonomous known as chaz announces its area is outside the united states. the police department is now the people's department. the height of hypocrisy. a 6 to 7-block area occupied by the ones who hate borders and guns and i.d. checks. they now have a border and some people are harmed. but seattle mayor durkan thinks she is at woodstock. >> demanding we do better as a society and providing he can winds for community of color is not terrorism, it's patriotism. judge jeanine: mayor, how many much your chaz squatters pay taxes in seattle or even vote there. now that they used you, they want you gone. maybe you and mayor deblasio's wife should take a vacation to
nirvana which according to her is wherever there are no police. leave your police protection behind. they demand all prisoners of color be retried. the police department be displantled. and prisons be replaced with an accountability program. victims should be on notice, they need a transformist accountability session with their rapist. after all, the rapist won't be going to prison. how did we get here? when does it end in the when will a police officer killed during the peaceful protests be honored? how long do we live in fear there will nobody response when we call police for help. how long before other crime-ridden cities run by democrats yield to these
anarchists. 10 cops quit s.w.a.t. today in florida. cops willing to put their lives on the line for people they don't even know. they lost their morale. they lost their support. they are abused and laughed at. we don't pay them nearly enough. they don't deserve to be disrespected and vilify. how long boulevard new york city becomes the real gotham. what's the answer. what's the solution? on the right it's simple. we want law and order. accountability for law breakers and protection for law abiding citizens. be. on the left dismantle those who serve and protect. how do we come together? how do we heal and move on from this ugly chapter in our
country's history. sadly, i don't have the answer tonight. i know taking over the streets and driving police out of station houses and residents from their homes isn't it. maybe if we agreed to hear each other out, we can find some common ground. god help the united states if we can't. and that's my open. let me know what you think on facebook page and twitter, #judgejeanine. a live look at atlanta where protesters are out on the streets following the shooting death of rayshard brooks after a fight with two police officers who tried to arrest him. joining me, author of "shame." dr. shelby steele. dr. steele. thanks so much for being with us tonight. >> thanks for having me. i don't quite see you on the
screen yet. buff apparently we are still overlooking atlanta. what are your responses. what are your first reactions after you heard about this killing in atlanta? >> probably the same always most anybody's. the a teelg like oh, not again. but it's not something we haven't seen where we are extremely familiar with it. but it continues to be explosive. and it grips the attention of the entire nation which suggests to me as a country we are still working something out. this history we have in america, in many ways a shameful history, in many ways a glorious history. we created freedom. on the other hand we indulged
slavery. we ended the slaved are you. but we are tortured. what does it mean? and which america are we? and the left today says we are racist all, every other word out of their mouth is that we are racist and evil with that old ugly america. and cons are arguing people on the political right tend not to make high moral claims. but they can't give the society the moral innocence that it seems to long for now. sanity seems to me we are trying to work that out. not very well. >> i am very impressed with all of your writings. you are a brilliant man. i heard you say some very -- you know, some very interesting
things like, you know, the fact that, you know, systemic racism expands the territory of entitlement. do you think that america is a racist country? >> no, i think it once was, and i think because we are a great country and chose to redeem ourselves from that past that we reconfigured power. in american life. and a lot of what i think we see going on today makes no sense except there is a power grab. the left is saying this country is shameful. we deserve power because we are innocent of that ugly past. we want no racism. we want no sexism. we want -- we are innocent, innocent, innocent. the other side says we want law and order, and they are absolutely right. they are not claiming the high
ground as they do on the left. and at this moment, as we speak, we see the enormous power the left has in simply claiming themselves to be more innocent than the rest of us. political correctness. in many ways it's taken over universities. it has taken over one institution in america after another where you are required to basically express your innocence of america's past. so if you are in a position to -- if you are in a position at universities are to exploit that, that's how you get ahead in american life now. it's to nurture that innocence. judge jeanine: but having said that, doctor, how -- if it's a political game, then it goes on as long as politics goes on. i wanted to ask how long do we
have to pay for the sins of our fathers? but if it's -- if the umbrella is politics it goes on forever. >> that's the telling question. is there an end to this? is there a way out of this? at the moment it would not -- nothing points to a way out. the sides are only hardening. the left more and more claims its innocence. the right more and more is frustrated by that, and so what people on the right do is they say one word, they begin to practice deference. as time goes on we defer more and more to the moralism of the left. everything is moralistic. police brutality. whatever.
we'll defer and there will be jump heel and we'll reexamine police. does that get in the left comes back with something else. and challenges us to prove our innocence. always you have to prove your innocence of the ugly past. that's power in american life today. judge jeanine: that is power. and i think it also expressed itself in terms of political correctness and free speech. when the constitution begins yielding to the left, the concept of what you can and cannot say, then, you know, maybe what's happening in seattle is what may happen. i fear for that in america. this is not america. america is the problem. does the left want to take america apart? >> the left wants to dominate. there is no doubt about that.
they want to prevail. it's a culture war. it really has to be understood that way. they have been very ingenious with a shooting like the one that just happened in atlanta, for example. it's the color of the trigger finger that determines power. the trigger finger was white. the victim was black. you invoke all of america's history, four centuries of racial division and pain and so forth. so explodes all over the news. last week in chicago, 82 people were shot. >> judge jeanine: i don't mean to cut you short. we would love to have you come back on justice. thanks so much for being with us. i appreciate your input.
that it for us tonight. i'm judge jeanine jeanine pirro. we'll continue in a moment. as you get older, are you worried about staying sharp and alert? forebrain, from the harvard-educated experts at force factor, contains key ingredients to help boost memory, learning, clarity, focus, and more! rush to walmart and find forebrain, our #1 brain booster, in the vitamin aisle.
greg: after days of ugly massive violence, the left says let's defund the police. talk about a riot. cities ruined by lawlessness. that's like staring at a four alarm fire and saying let's defund the fire hydrants. that's like watching a friend choke and say let's defund the heimlich maneuver. if you think law and order is worse than criminal behavior i can say anything. >> what about in