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Seeds of Discontent, raw interview with hippies for episode 2 (introduction)

by: Smith, Hartford, Jr.

Publication date: 1968

Usage: Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 4.0 International

Topics: wisconsincenterforfilmandtheaterresearch, radio, documentary, detroit

Language: English

Seeds of Discontent was a 1968 radio documentary series that explored discontented social groups and organizations attempting to improve their conditions in American society. Created by Hartford Smith, Jr. and Wayne State University’s WDET in Detroit, the series addressed topics including race relations, civil rights, poverty, youth, and crime. Smith’s connections with the community as a social worker allowed him to record hours of interviews with people about their lives and their opinions on contemporary issues. This tape is a recording of Smith’s interview with a group of hippies, used for episode 2.

The series, distributed by the National Educational Radio Network, was made publicly available as part of the Unlocking the Airwaves project, a digital humanities initiative from University of Maryland and the University of Wisconsin-Madison launched in summer 2021. Learn more at https://www.unlockingtheairwaves.org/.

Contact Information: Wisconsin Center for Film and Theater Research, Wisconsin Historical Society, 816 State Street, Madison, WI 53704, telephone 608-264-6466. For reference inquiries or questions regarding specific titles in WCFTR's collection, please email our digital reference service at askmovies@wisconsinhistory.org

Addeddate: 2021-12-07 22:27:59

Digitizing-sponsor: Stephen P. Jarchow

Identifier: HartfordSmithJr_Seeds_Interview_Hippies1

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Transcript: Speaker 0 00:00:03 Okay. Tonight, we are down in the area, just south of Blaine, which is an area which has been designated by the press by others and the news media as a developing a hippie community, we've selected out four young men who have agreed to discuss this matter with us. They all live in this area. I certainly are most qualified to speak about it. The first question that I'd like to ask you, fellows is what is this, this whole concept of the hippie movement, as you understand it? Speaker 1 00:00:47 Well, uh, the main hippie movement is, uh, namely, uh, once you were kind of good color change of society in a few ways done by as the press cause hippies. And, uh, I mean that, I'm sure they don't mean to change the whole society. Just a few points of it, which they consider would be in their benefit. Speaker 0 00:01:12 What are some of these points? Do you feel needs to be changed? Speaker 1 00:01:17 Well, one thing is there is a lot of prejudice in the world and that is one of the main factors. And I say that there's as much prejudice, prejudice against hippies now, as there is. And, uh, it's kind of ridiculous. And I think that's a main point and the other hippie movement. Speaker 0 00:01:39 What does the term hippie main? Speaker 2 00:01:45 Uh, well, to most people, it would be anybody with long hair who dresses funny and, uh, acts funny, but a hippie itself it's it started out as an organization, uh, or not so much an organization, but just a, a group of people who were very, very serious about, about doing things, uh, in their way and trying to build their, their surroundings to suit their tastes. And, uh, more and more people who have gotten into this. Now you have, uh, the, the kids that come in and go along for a free ride on it. They dress funny. You can see them down at plum street, they'll get out of their cars and they'll dress up in there. They're, they'll put their beads on and things and go out on the street and play hippie for awhile. And this, uh, these, these people aren't are the ones that are seen most often, but aren't the ones that are really doing, uh, work in the community. You have very dedicated people like, uh, Mr. Sinclair and, uh, Grimshaw, uh, in this particular area who, uh, are building things, newspapers, and, uh, the workshop and, uh, magazines to, uh, Speaker 2 00:03:22 Build a, uh, An atmosphere that they feel is one that is good to live in. Speaker 0 00:03:35 Um, basically then, um, hippie, uh, I can use that term means the rebuilding of a community, Speaker 2 00:03:44 Right? They, they, they, they want to build their thing, make, make it work for them because it does what they see on the outside and where they came from. They cannot agree with. And so they're building it their own way. Speaker 1 00:03:58 I also want strengthens the point that I made or a prejudice that they have to change it, to suit them because in the world, things can not be as they like it because there was prejudice against him. Speaker 0 00:04:13 No, from what I understand, perhaps there are what you might call some hangers on some who are going along for the ride. Why do you think the glory seekers, um, what it out there is happening or what is happening in society, uh, or which you feel make might lead to this, uh, after all, as you well know, the hippies are rather unpopular. Uh, why would, uh, so many people move in to go along for that kind of ride? Speaker 2 00:04:51 Well, these, these people to see the, one of the big things in the hippie philosophy, I guess, would be what Alan Ginsburg co says, this, this law of type thing, and these kids will see, you know, like, you know, what would you rather do, you know, love or hate? And if you know, these, these, these kids have trouble with the law, not only in their home, but everywhere they go and they, you know, they come down here, you know, hoping for some kind of understanding, but they, uh, do not want to, they, they can only see, like they can only see and feel the, the, uh, uh, outer fruits of this, you know, such as, you know, uh, you know, loving everybody and the Digger type thing. But there's, there's something under it because like the kids down here, uh, they don't work because they can't get jobs. A lot of them can't get jobs for a lot of kids at work though, but they have, you know, they come down here trying to, you know, run, they're running away from their homes and they want a place to stay, you know? And they, they seem to fall in with the people who don't have that much money or any, any ways of supporting them much less themselves Speaker 0 00:06:05 Newspaper man, they have, uh, said, um, some rather famous journalist. In fact, um, this month in the Atlantic, there was a long series of articles, uh, dealing with this particular aspect. Um, one of the statements made why is that many of these, uh, kids that you're talking about could, uh, if they made up their mind simply go back to suburbia. And, uh, and I have joint bank accounts, two cars, uh, what is happening, why, uh, in this great materialistic society who have RA, so what, what, is there a mess they changed to, uh, make them turn their back on these kinds of things to try for a, an association which, uh, is quite unpopular. Speaker 2 00:06:59 Well, you've, you've just mentioned it when you sent materialism, that's where the kids are. You know, that's, that's one of the big gripes is that, you know, like while Johnny has to go to college, Johnny has to get a good job. Johnny has to have a good car. Johnny has to do this. Johnny has to do that, but Johnny doesn't have to grow up in that, in that, in that, that environment, that doesn't, doesn't, it just involves money, money, money, because money is nothing it's, it's a curse is what it is. It's a curse that the government is, has thrown upon us, you know, and it's sick. It's really, it's mentally sick to see people, they base, uh, you know, spiritual values and, and values of, of love on money. Speaker 0 00:07:41 And so there's a certain extent and you feel these young kids might be, um, their fight and maybe to a certain extent, healthy re Speaker 2 00:07:50 Yes, it's a very healthy, relaxed reaction. There's, there's nothing wrong with it at all. I don't think, Speaker 0 00:07:57 Okay. No, we come to certain concepts. And the one that, um, is heard most frequently is the concept of lock. Now, this term has been tossed about, uh, quite readily in our time. Um, I am certainly in centuries prior to this, uh, is there something different about, uh, about this term, as you understand that now, um, what new dimensions are being added, um, in short, how would you interpret this, this, this whole concept of loud? Speaker 2 00:08:35 Well, it's not, it's not new dimensions. The old dimensions are coming back, uh, in the Bible. It says, uh, God created man to his image and likeness. And, uh, this is any man and you have to, uh, uh, treat any man whether, whether he's black or white or yellow, uh, as your brother, because he is, I think that's doing it is these kids who have grown up in the atmospheric environment, you know, where nobody really cares about anybody else. I mean, you know, like I grew up in suburbia and I just, the only thing I have to do is keep up with the Joneses. And, you know, like if, if the Johnny Jones does have a problem or something, I don't, I don't, it's not on my concern. It's not on my business. That's, that's a lot, what you hear in suburbia is it's none of my business, let me stay out of it. So the thing that is on society besides the prejudice is everybody's got to do Speaker 0 00:09:37 Okay. But again, this has been going on for centuries. Now, as I understand it, the crab, some wrong on the score, uh, this is the Supreme weapon. This is going to be the change agents hold space. This is going to be the ingredient that leads to a new community. Um, let's look around and the realities of today's society, police power, the prejudice that you have mentioned, and certainly the violence within our own time. Um, how is this to possibly work with within this atmosphere? Uh, do you have any other strategies or do you do feel that, uh, the hippie movement can, can create new strategies for change? Speaker 2 00:10:25 I think in this society that we're not living in the urban type community, I don't believe that the work, uh, uh, hippy types of society, that's why, um, people are trying to form out colonies sort of tribal type assistance, or a bunch of people that have the same idea, the thing they actually have a right to live the way they want to live, to believe what they want to believe, um, should get up by themselves and start like living for themselves and realizing that things that matter are of are not things that matter to other people, Speaker 0 00:11:11 Is that really possible anymore. It's looking at how things and become centralized, uh, the entire economic structure, uh, uh, how would people live? How would they survive? Uh, certainly one of you mentioned, uh, the power of government, um, almost every track of land, certainly in terms of Speaker 2 00:11:35 from the government. If, if we had a place to go, if we had a, if we had an island or a large tract of land, you would find, uh, this group of people moving there and forming their whole, their whole new thing, a whole, whole new system of government, whole new values, everything would be new. They, because they've seen so much on the outside, uh, uh, materialistic values that, uh, they're finding once they get a taste of aesthetic values, uh, and what art really is, uh, in both music and, and any other forms, uh, they find that there is, there is something here that is very strong and very holding, and they stick together for these things. And, uh, if they were able to build a complete society on, on their own track of land, it would be a very and material listic and very, very, uh, strong on the art lines and self-expression, and, uh, uh, doing your own thing Speaker 1 00:12:58 Since we don't have a track of land. And since we do have to cope with society, I think the only as you mentioned, strategies or strategy that we can possibly have or obtain it's like what happened in San Francisco now, the only way that, uh, they achieved what they're starting to achieve, as far as it being schools, hippie stores and so on and so forth is, uh, when it is when the hippie hippie movement, like in Frisco, it got so big that the people could no longer fight it, that it had to start accepting it and that, and therefore, since they can't fight it, they have to accept it. And that leaves way for a new strategy to, uh, get things done. Now in Detroit, there, people are still fighting it and until Detroit, the other people of Detroit start accepting it, then he'll have to just keep it in the way it is before we informed the news kind of strategist Speaker 0 00:13:47 Strategy. One of the things that happened in San Francisco was that certainly, um, people who were interested in this concept that we've talked about, uh, in terms of the hippie movement, uh, tended to get together and was one of you suggested already, uh, and tried to do things that they were interested in and trying to seek new ways, new understandings and insights into themselves. But, but there's very process itself. Um, somehow took away their creative energies in terms of effecting some change in other parts of the society. Uh, and one of the overwhelming questions, uh, in my mind is, uh, how can you pull away? And yet at the same time, um, uh, live up to obligations, or do you feel obligations to others who are downtrodden by the system? Speaker 2 00:14:49 Well, it all depends on what you feel your obligations are, uh, how, how real things appear to you. Uh, many things that in suburbia are most important to some people, or at least important to us. And, uh, well, as far as, uh, Speaker 0 00:15:12 Responsibilities Speaker 2 00:15:15 And obligations, girl, If you're talking about the material Speaker 0 00:15:21 Type obligations, no, I ain't, let me clarify what I made. I was posing it, philosophical question, certainly a large number of, uh, of, of poor people. Uh, people who have been, uh, in, uh, held in a state of injustice for a number of years, um, people who are somewhat powerless, who are looking around for a way out and as yet, no, one's been able to pose that way out. Um, along comes the, the hippie movement thinking in terms of love of more or less treating people as people. Uh, and yet by the very nature of the movement, they draw, tend to go and turn on. They pull away and go inward so that they speak the same language, do the same things, wear the same dress. And the very process itself then tends to alienate them from, um, down trying to mass. Speaker 2 00:16:26 Well, that's unnecessarily thing because the hippie movement you shouldn't use, like, like the term a dropout, you know, don't drop out from society standard. Find it is, is not, not in a non, you know, an actual non-violent means, but you know, not where you go out and while we shoot the policemen and everything, not, not like that, but is it as though we could get involved in just to just the things they're doing, get into the jobs they're doing, where this is, this is in a way the hippie movement, shouldn't this, this, this movement, I guess you'd call it the lawn movement. Shouldn't not dropped out and made its own colonies. You know, it shouldn't, it should have spread it should've spread. That's where I think it went wrong was in, that was in dropping out. It's, uh, it's, that's where it failed. I, I tend to differ with you there because whenever you have a, uh, uh, something happening in a certain place, it changes all of the things around it. Speaker 2 00:17:28 It has to. Now you're finding art, uh, like the, the psychedelic type art, uh, moving into advertising. And, uh, you're finding it, moving into music very, very strong, uh, about 50% of the music that's written today, I would say is written by hippie groups or by people who are associated with the hippies. And, uh, just this in itself is affecting a change on the outside. Uh, this, this movement I'm certain will last for years and years, and it'll go through many, many changes and it'll take many different forms. But, uh, the whole thing is to show people what, what we feel are the realities and the things that are important. Speaker 2 00:18:28 Yeah. But as you can see, they're not, they're not buying once. You're once you're trying to tell them, but they are, no, they're not, they're not there. You know, you walk down a street and you know, like somebody is going to say, well, here's the comb, buddy. Come your hair, but you got, you got up, you gotta go. You gotta lean to society. You can't, you can't be stubborn with them. You've got to, you've got to do a little bit their way without actually changing what you believe in. But you've got to, you got to show them that, that, you know, like you're doing this wrong because, and you have to say this in a nice way, not just, you know, turning your nose up, right. Well, what are you speaking of religion or, uh, hippie philosophy, uh, you can't just push something on somebody and say, here's the Bible, read it. This is the way to go. This is your salvation. They won't buy this. They have to find it themselves. And, uh, this is what's happening here. People are finding, uh, a way to live and in a way to be themselves by not by somebody grabbing a by the arm and saying, come here a kid do this, but by seeing it happen, uh, it, it forms a change. It makes a change. Hmm. Speaker 1 00:19:44 The question of hippie philosophy, as far as hippy love is concerned. Lots of people make the mistake of assuming that it is a physical love, but a and hippie communities are based on hippie love, but a hippie love is more or less, uh, very materialistic. I mean, it's, it's not a physical type of love. It's more or less, uh, helping one another, uh, and people not being competitive towards one another, but trying to make everyone else as good as you are, or as good as you feel you are. And, uh, that's lots of people make a mistake. And, uh, when they try to analyze what the hippies called love. Speaker 0 00:20:23 Okay. And then, so what I'm gathering here then, as opposed to an essence dropping out and in the real sense of the word, but it's merely, um, a tactic to a certain extent, and that you feel that by developing such a colony setting, such an example, that the, the total effect will be, that people can see that there's a, there's an alternative to the establishment, Speaker 2 00:20:53 Right? Speaker 0 00:21:00 And recent years we've seen in several Northern communities, including Detroit, uh, what has been called at times, a race riot at other times, it's been called they rebellion. Um, and various police departments have viewed in the situation has open warfare. Many of the so-called hippie colonies or communities are located within the heart of slum areas down and out the areas tonight. We have four young men who do live in a rather depressed area of the city are familiar with the hippie movement. We're going to discuss in depth, the subject with us fellows. What do you think is happening in this area? This is recently new and our time. Are there any insights that you have into the situation? Speaker 2 00:22:10 Uh, it's all part of the change that's going on. Uh, the, the poor people, uh, colored and white together, or rebelling against the establishment. This is, this is why, uh, you had this thing happening in Detroit. Uh, if there wasn't something wrong, people like, uh, H rap brown, couldn't get the people excited enough to do something like this. If there wasn't something wrong. And, uh, this, uh, it, it connects with, with the hippie movement and with, uh, the race, the race problems, because there is this change going on. Uh, a lot of people don't understand exactly what it is, but they're revealing. And, uh, they do it in many different ways. One is burning down cities. For example, the thing is the main thing in it is this black power theory that it doesn't say, actually it comes right out and says, it doesn't say, well, it's a complete black takeover. Speaker 2 00:23:19 It's not, it's, it's, it's a restoration of pride to the poor people. Whether, you know, like the white people, the poor white people need it just as much as the Negroes too. And that's why the riots start is because there is no pride, the peace of the poor people, you know, the, the upper-class is won't let the poor people have any pride. And that's why these riot, you know, you can't, you can't lean back and be non-violent because the government wants you to be non-violent so they can show you around. And if you look at the police now, and you know, if you're not violent, they just love to slap you around. And evidence, evidence of that exist right. In right during the Detroit riots, I was accused of sniping at them and they they'd beat me up. And they'd beaten up a lot of long haired kids around here. Speaker 2 00:24:06 And they, they, they, you know, they said, well, we were sniping at them and they had their badges off and everything. And this is, this is, you know, like, like the upper, the upper establishments are, are, are forcing these poor people to, to either you become rich like us, or you're no good, you know, unlike these poor people have, you know, this has taken away all their pride, every, every bit of pride they had or, or, well, they, they, they actually never really had it because there's always been poor people since the world began, but there's no, you know, they want their pride back. Man wants his pride man. Lots of pride in being a man. Speaker 0 00:24:42 Do you feel that, um, large elements of the, uh, hippie communities since they are living in these areas, uh, are involved in, uh, Ryan situations? Speaker 2 00:24:56 Um, not in the act of sense of, you know, sniping and shooting. I don't think the, as you say, a hippies, aren't going out shooting, shooting people or anything. But I think the riot that happened in Detroit was a good thing. And there, because the Negroes are not going to achieve what they, what they want on a civil rights term by being non-violent because non-violent non-violence is a great thing. And if anybody can be non-violent, you know, all the power to them, but I don't think I can't be nonviolent. I can't stand back and let a policemen beat me up. Speaker 0 00:25:34 This does pose somewhat of a conflictual situation though. Now on the one hand, um, it has been said that the hippies are a peace group, that their tactics are basically non violent. If you say on the one hand that it's almost impossible under these conditions to be non-violent, uh, then this to a certain extent puts you at odds with, uh, those who are rebelling against the system. Is this not true? Okay. Speaker 2 00:26:17 This, this depends on the individual to each, each individual's tolerance. The whole movement itself definitely is, has got nothing but peace in mind. Uh, if, if one or two, uh, and, and the community feel that they can only take so much. And then, then they've got to rebel and, and fight, uh, this is their thing. This is the way they are, but the, the whole movement itself is, uh, definitely along a peace line. You don't, you'll never see, see large, large mobs of, uh, hippies, uh, running down the streets, smashing out windows and beating up people and think you, you will never, never, never see that. That's, that's what I mean. I mean, you know, like, don't go, don't go out and, you know, go up to a policeman just for the fact that he is a policeman and strike him or hit him or anything like that. But don't sit back and let, let, let let a government or, or an establishment or, or police officers show you around because they had, there was no Marshall laundering this, right, from what I understand, but they had their badges off. And, uh, they were striking people with their gun butts and everything else and yelling, some yelling, some pretty insulting things to the girls around. Speaker 0 00:27:33 Do you feel that the, this kind of violent action occurring within these communities have basically run their course? Or do you feel, uh, there's more to come? There's going to be Speaker 2 00:27:45 Over there. It's going to be bad. Why, why didn't you want to really crack? Why do you feel this way? Uh, they're there and they're out to clean the mess up. People are fed up and, uh, while you're watching it happen and I'm like, like Malcolm X and, uh, John Kennedy. And, uh, just now, uh, George Lincoln, Rockwell and people that are involved in peace movements and civil rights movements, they're all being assassinated and shot up. And it's, it's, it's, it's all part of the, part of the thing, because, uh, there is so much wrong everywhere that, uh, they're out to clean house and it's going to happen. And that's another fault of society. As a lot of the people are just leaning back and saying, well, there's always going to be wrong. There's nothing we can do about it. There is something you can do about it. Man. Must always try to strive for this utopian state. You know, he must always try and achieve the perfect happiness. You know, he must always try this. He must keep doing this because if he doesn't, he's going to lay stagnant and he's going to become nothing. That's why I can't see anybody. I can't see anybody wanting to be conservative.