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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX  May 10, 2020 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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chance wednesday and thursday. temperatures not bad. low 70s expected inland, happy mother's day to all of you celebrating today. >> bye-bye! president predicting more coronavirus deaths. ♪ >> we may be talking about 95,000 people ultimately, we may be talking about something more than that. >> chris: america begins reopening, but it's not your business as usual. the crippling economic effect of the pandemic hitting major retailers, the meat industry, farmers, and small businesses, while congress remains in gridlock. >> we can't keep throwing endless amounts of borrowed money of the problem and hope to fix it. >> in addition to putting money in people's pockets, we really also need to put food on the
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table. >> chris: we will ask treasury secretary steven mnuchin about the economy and trillions more in government relief. it's a fox news someday exclusive. then, as more states relax restrictions despite not meeting federal guidelines for reopeni reopening, we will discuss the challenges in flattening the curve with dr. tom inglesby, director of the center for health security at johns hopkins university. and we are joined by governor mike dewine to talk about how he's reopening ohio. plus, former national security advisor michael flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the fbi, so why is the government dropping its case against him? we will ask our sunday panel about the justice department's abrupt about-face. and our power players of the week, a shout out to all the moms. all right now on "fox news sunday." ♪
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>> chris: hello again and happy mother's day from fox news in washington. for two months now we've seen the devastating effect of the coronavirus on this country, with more than 1.3 million cases and more than 78,000 deaths. that on friday we got our best sense yet of the economic damage with official word the u.s. now faces the highest level of unemployment since the great depression. in a moment, we will speak with the secretary of the treasury, steven mnuchin, but first let's bring in david spunt with the fallout from the worst drop support in the nation's history. >> even president trump is having a hard time finding a silver lining saying this week that he's not surprised by these numbers, but the big question, chris, can president trump and the democrats come together for the good of those in need? the numbers are grim, almost
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21 million americans lost their jobs in april pushing the unemployment rate to 14.7%. >> it sounds like a terror movie or these movies that we see on tv. but it's a reality. >> we need food. my son-in-law is laid off, my daughter-in-law is laid off. speaker democrats and republicans are at a standstill on a phase four stimulus bill to boost the economy. >> one thing we could do is a payroll tax cut. that seems to bother the democrats. >> people like mcconnell and mccarthy and even trump would say let's wait and do nothing, well, they remind me of the old herbert hoovers. if we had the great depression, we need franklin roosevelt-type action. >> 43 governors have cautiously opened their states while others remain cautious as the virus continues to spread. >> it can happen anywhere, it's a very elusive enemy.
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>> including the white house, where vice president mike pence's press secretary tested positive for the virus, as did a personal valet to the president. first daughter ivanka trumps personal assistant also tested positive. fda commissioner dr. stephen hahn, dr. robert redfield and dr. anthony fauci are all under quarantine after being exposed at the white house. the three doctors are expected to testify in front of the senate on tuesday in just a few days. fauci is expected to show up in person likely wearing a mask. meanwhile, all white house employees are told to telework when possible. and >> chris: reporting from the white house, david, thank you. joining us now, treasury secretary steven mnuchin. mr. secretary, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> secretary mnuchin: chris, great to be back with you. >> chris: the official unemployment rate as we just reported for april is 14.7%. but that does not include the
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7 million jobs lost since apri april 18th, or the millions of workers not looking for jobs or what are called the underemployed. so mr. secretary, what is the real unemployment rate in the united states as we talk today? >> secretary mnuchin: chris, the real issue, and the president and i understand this, is the economic issues that american workers and american business are facing as a result of this virus and the decision to close the economy, and that's the reason why the president wants to work with the states to safely reopen the economy so we can safely get people back to work. so these are very, very large numbers, these are not large numbers because of the economy wasn't doing well, these are large numbers because we checked on the economy and i would just highlight the biggest component of this was in travel and retail and leisure and not a surprise, we closed down major parts of the economy.
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>> chris: i'm going to get into that with you in a moment, but i think it's important that we face with the real numbers are some of the bureau of our labor statistics says what they call the real unemployment number for april, which again includes people who are not looking for work or underemployed, is 22.8%, but again that is not a clue -- because the unemployment number stopped in mid-april, does not include the 7 million people who have lost their jobs since then. are we talking close to 25% at this point, which is great depression levels? >> secretary mnuchin: we could be but let me just emphasize, unlike the great depression where your economic issues that led to this, we closed down the economy, so wouldn't be a surprise if you closed down the economy that in half of the workforce, half the people didn't work. and that's why we are very focused on rebuilding this economy and getting it back to where it was. this is no fault of american
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businesses, this is no fault of american workers, this is the result of the virus and that's where the president and i, we are determined to put together the largest economic program ever to help american workers get through this. so you are correct, the reported numbers are probably going to get worse before they get better, but that's where we are focused on rebuilding this economy. we will have a better third quarter, a better fourth quarter and next year is going to be a great year. >> chris: let's talk about that, because you and the president both say the economy is going to come roaring back, but i've got to tell you, and i want to ask about a number of signs which indicate that the recovery is going to be much lower than that, sir. job losses are not just in hospitality industry, airlines, restaurants, as you would expect, but they're more widespread. the white collar and government sector, 3 million jobs lost. major retailers like neiman marcus and j.crew declaring bankruptcy and the nonpartisan
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congressional budget office says unemployment at the end not of this year, but of 2021 will still be 9.5%. question, are your rosy predictions based on economic reality or the november electi election? >> secretary mnuchin: chris, let me just emphasize first of all, these numbers impact real people and i want to emphasize, we understand how this is impacting real people, so they're not just numbers. it's impacting real people. my numbers aren't rosy. what i said is you're going to have a very, very bad second quarter and then i think you're going to see a bounce back from a low standpoint. none of the economic models have ever worked in predicting what happens when you close down due to medical reasons. so my predictions are based upon what i see as the rate of reopening, and a careful way, which also brings the blood but if you -- i've also heard from
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any doctors that have vaccines in trials and their expectations of being able to get a vaccine by the end of this year and having real viral treatments, the advent of testing, all these things are going to help give american business and american workers the confidence to reopen in a careful and deliberate way. >> chris: and what about the food supply chain that farmers and processors say is broken, because they can't get their meat and they can't get their produce from the field to market? >> secretary mnuchin: well, chris, those are real issues but again, it will be emphasized i see the glass as half-full and not half-empty. if you were told the american public we would virtually shut down the entire supply chains and still be able to feed america and get drugs to america and continue to do critical work, i couldn't be more pleased how americans are pulling together to get through this.
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so yes, there are issues, we are working through those issues. the task force is focusing on those issues when we see them. we're figuring out how to fix them. >> chris: and now the president is calling for states to reopen and a number of governors are around the country, but this week the president talked about the possible cost of that, take a look. >> will some people be affected? yes. will some people be affected badly? yes, but we have to get our country open and we have to get it open soon. >> chris: but, patrick parker, head of the philadelphia federal reserve says if economy opens too toot only would this be a health catastrophe but it would reverse the recovery well," if that happens, he predicts, -- shutdowns are reintroduced. do you agree that there is a
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considerable risk -- not to say you shouldn't do it -- but there is a considerable risk of reopening both from a public health and an economic standpoint? >> secretary mnuchin: chris, if we do this carefully working with the governors, i don't think there's a considerable risk. as a matter of fact, i think there's a considerable risk of not reopening. you're talking about what would be permanent economic damage to the american public and we are going to reopen in a very thoughtful way that gets people back to work safely, that has them social distance. one of the things we've seen, chris, is a lot of businesses can do telework. not ever but he has to come back into the office at the same time, but people will be able to go into stores. some of them will have reservations when they go in, but businesses will be able to reopen and i think as you know, certain parts of the country had very devastating impacts, like new york and certain parts of the country didn't. and this is all being monitored very, very carefully. e's going to be another the
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response from washington and if so, what it's going to be. house speaker nancy pelosi said she may introduce a phase for relief bill this week. but larry kudlow, the white house economic advisor said this week that the administration wants to wait until late may or early june to decide where to go next enters the president on that subject this week. >> we are in no rush. it we are in no rush. the democrats have to do what they have to do, but i would say we are not looking -- we want to see what they have, but i can't say that we are in a rush. we were in a rush to get the money out to people, we have gotten the money out. >> chris: question, with 33 million people unemployed, with the paycheck protection program money running out by the end of this month, with state
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budgets cratering, this administration is in no rush? >> secretary mnuchin: well, the president out and i have been very clear on this and we are in 100% agreement. first, let me just say we appreciate the enormous bipartisan support that both parties in the house and the senate work together to get an unprecedented response. you're talking over $3 trillion into the economy, you're talking about another two and a half half-$5 trillion working with the federal reserve. this is never been done before and i just want to emphasize and think the bipartisan support. what the president and i are now saying is we spent a lot of money. a lot of this money is not even into the economy yet. let's take the next few weeks, i'm having discussions with the republicans and the democrats to understand these issues. the president and i are having conversations with outside people, with business. we just want to make sure that before we jump again and spent another few trillion of taxpayers money that we do it
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carefully. we had an emergency process. it worked quickly. we are there to help the american people. if we are going to be considerate and if we need to help the american people in every aspect of this, as i said before, we are willing to spend whatever it takes, but whatever it takes need to be done carefully. >> chris: i've got about a minute left and i want to squeeze this in. the president says that he won't sign another relief bill without a payroll tax cut in it, but both democrats and a lot of top republicans are expressing great concerns about that because they say a payroll tax cut doesn't help if somebody's unemployed and they're not on the payroll. and here's what the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell had to say about that. >> i think i can safely say for our team here, the republican senate -- majority -- if there's any redline, it's on litigation.
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>> chris: litigation of course means liability protection that if somebody goes back to work or goes into a restaurant, that they would be able to sue to say that they got the virus from that place. so given the hesitancy from the republicans and democrats on capitol hill, will the president, will you insist that a payroll tax cut be part of the next release bill? >> secretary mnuchin: we are absolutely pushing for the payroll tax cut. it's an incentive to get people back to work. it's delivering money to the american public and to business. in a very effective way and that will be one of the components -- you've heard of mitch mcconnell talk about liability, we have agree with that completely. the democrats have been asking for more money for states. we've been very clear that we are not going to do things just to bailout states that were poorly managed, but we are going to look at all these issues and let me just emphasize, all these bills have had enormous bipartisan support. when we need to go back and work and help the american public, we will do this in a bipartisan way
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and make sure we get all of these things included. >> chris: secretary, thank you, thanks for a time today, always good to talk with you, sir. >> secretary mnuchin:coming up,l ask one of the nation's top dropped more across the country. and the risk of reopening the economy too soon. ♪ ♪ ♪ love is all you need.
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♪ >> chris: the u.s. is still trying to come off the top of the coronavirus curve, even as states across the country ease safety restrictions. joining us once again from baltimore, dr. tom inglesby, director of the center for health security at johns hopkins university. doctor, when we last spoke two weeks ago, you said we are near the end of the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic. two weeks later, as we talk today, where are we now? >> dr. inglesby: well, i think we are still in the early stages of the pandemic. we have a ways to go before we could possibly get a vaccine. we still are now about five weeks into the dash a national plateau. and the national averages --
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they don't necessarily t you neo the state level to really understand what's going on around the country and even as we see places like new york and new jersey falling in cases, really improving compared to their peaks, many other states are still experiencing a rise daily cases. so it's a mix around the country but overall and national plateau. >> chris: i want to put up a graph that demonstrates in fact what you just said. it's pretty dramatic. let's put it up. in new york city, which is the graph on the left, as you can see, they have been the curve of new cases considerably, but in the graph on the right, the rest of the country, new cases have not started dropping. in fact, they're still going up. given those trends, dr. inglesby, how concerned are you as the president and governors now in 43 states have
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started to reopen those states? >> dr. inglesby: well, bottom line is that we are not diagnosing enough cases and we are not tracing their contacts. we don't know how this disease is spreading in many places. we still don't understand who's at highest risk, why are we having so many cases now this many weeks into a plateau, into various cases experiencing rising daily numbers, so i am concerned. i think there are some places in the country which are doing a lot better, which have low overall numbers and have had a two week declining cases or more and have been doing a lot of testing but there are other places which are really experiencing the opposite, rising cases, too little testing, too little tracing. >> chris: and what is the danger if you reopen in one of those states where the number of cases is still rising and you don't have enough testing --
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what's the danger then? >> dr. inglesby: well, the danger is that with increased social interaction in businesses or churches or in activities, going to restaurants, et cetera, that with increased social interaction we will again see increased transmission and rising number of cases and in states whether already on the rise, that i could put a lot of pressure on the health care system. that could lead to new hot spots. just to remember, two months ago in this country we had 750 cases. and now we have well more than a million. so this disease moves quickly and it doesn't respect city borders, state borders, so as states are reopening, we have to remember, we are in a new normal. if this isn't the way it was in february or march. this is a really nasty virus which remains the same. we have to do all that we can as individuals, even as businesses are reopening, we have to do all we can to maintain space, where
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cloth masks, avoid gatherings. the virus hasn't changed, those things are all still really important. >> chris: let's talk about the nature of this virus. you say it's a nasty one. here's what president trump said this week about the pandemic. >> i feel about vaccines like i feel about tests. this is going to go away without a vaccine. it's going to go away and we're not going to sit again hopefully after a period of time. >> chris: dr. inglesby, with a virus, as the president said, just go away? >> dr. inglesby: no, this virus isn't going to go away. hopefully over time we will learn to live with it and will be able to reduce the risk of transmission, but it's going to stay as a background problem in the country and around the world until we have a vaccine. hopefully as we develop medicines, maybe more quickly than a vaccine, that will help us in ways to diminish the impact of the virus, but this
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virus, we are mostly around the world, almost all of us are subsector but to it as far as we know at this point, so this virus has a long way to run. we don't think that more than a small percent of the country at this point has been infected, so most of us are still susceptible to this virus. >> chris: what about the argument you hear from some people, look, the people who are dying from this virus are seniors, people over 60, people with underlying conditions. so just quarantine them -- or you know, have them isolated and let the rest of the people go back to work. what that work? >> dr. inglesby: so, if you add up the number of the people in the country over 65 with all those who have underlying conditions that would put them at higher risk, that's about 90 million adults or a third of the adults in this country, and there really isn't any clear way to separate that third of adults
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with the rest of the country, so it would be pretty challenging. right on the country is already trying to do its best to prevent infections in nursing homes. even with that said home owner, half of the nursing homes of the country have a case or an outbreak. and i think we need kind of a strategy that works for everyone. i don't think there can be a strategy that works for only half the country with an attempt to get the other half or the other third of the country in some kind of large isolation. i don't think it will work logistically or practically. >> chris: on the other hand, as i just discussed with the secretary of the treasury mnuchin and as i'm sure you've seen, 30 -- more than 30 million americans lost their jobs. is there a way to find a balance between on the one hand waving people's lives and on the other hand, saving our economy?
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>> dr. inglesby: we absolutely have to find that balance. the economic losses in this country are shocking. and our team at our center wrote one of the first reports on reopening the economy. we believe strongly that that needs to be a near-term goal. we just have to do it in a way that is as safe as possible. i completely agree with that principle articulated by secretary mnuchin, we have to do it safely and i think that means trying to have very, very substantial diagnostic testing capability in place around the country, the ability to trace the contacts of patients. that's how other countries in the world have gotten control of their epidemics. the way that they've restored their economies really is to give people a sense of confidence, i think, that the disease is under control a relatively good control and i think that should be our goal here. we have to show people that this disease is under good control and people will then have confidence in going out and re-engaging the economy.
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so we need to build contact tracing capability around the country in every state. we need to expand diagnostic capacity in every sta thank you. thanks for coming in again to discuss the hard scientific data with us. thank you, sir. up next, states balance bringing back their economies while trying to keep people safe. we will talk with ohio governor ohio governor mike to whine about what he says is a gamble, reopening his state in the midst of a pandemic. ♪ four plus one is... 16. (laughter) how many pints of iced tea are left in the pitcher? times... ten... so, wait... (errhhhhh) do you want to show us the continents on the... no. it is not going good. my mom is getting stressed out. (speaks hebrew) momma's tired.
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i, i'm, like... woooo... (screams) (sighs heavily) so, starting just quickly by breathing in... i never thought i'd say this, but i kind of miss school! the teachers, i mean, y'all are gifted people! i thank you so much for what you're doing. their investment into our children is beyond what we can even imagine. appreciate all that you do. >> chris: coming up, ohio governor mike dewine moves forward with plans to reopen businesses but urges caution. >> as we open up the economy, let me just state the obvious and not shy away from it. the risk is up. >>
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♪ >> chris: ohio took early action against the coronavirus, including being the first state in the nation to close its schools. but now a phased reopening is underway, even as the number of covid cases there continues to rise. joining us now, ohio governor mike dewine. governor, as we say, you were one of the first governors in the country to move against the virus. we were the very first one to close schools. in mid-march, you also ordered a stay-at-home order. but by the end of this week you will have reopened 90% of ohio's economy. why do you think you can do that safely sir? >> governor dewine: well, it's really a risk no matter what we do. it's a risk if we don't do anything. it's a risk if we do this. what we have done is com practir
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businesses to reopen. we put businesspeople together with help people and have them come up with these best practices. and chris, the economy is not going to open no matter what we do, whatever we order, unless people have confidence and we are trying to give them confidence, but at the same time where telling them the virus is still out there, it's still very, very dangerous. we have to keep the distancing. people should wear masks, wash her hands. i mean, these are basic things that we have to do. we can't let up. >> chris: let's look at the path of the virus in your state, because a week ago -- since a week ago friday, the number of new cases in ohio has gone down and then back up in two days ago, last friday, you have the highest number of new cases since april 20th, so i guess the question, governor -- that would seem to be a red flag right there. you're not meeting the
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white house guidelines of a steady downward trajectory for two weeks, why is that not a red light? >> governor dewine: i don't know if anybody's meeting at -- not very many states are meeting it. but we do now have come across, his great capacity in regard to testing. we did not have that two weeks ago. we are standing up, a big force of people to do -- to go talk to people, try to run that virus down, isolate people. so those are two things we did not have before, it's a work in progress, we are getting that. i look at kind of a 21 day rule. we are really at a plateau with hospitalizations. we are at a plateau with deaths. we are at a plateau in regard to new cases, so they do go up and down. we wish we were going down. we are not. we have been hit in ohio just like other states have been hit economically, so we've got to try to do two things at once and
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it's -- you know, no one is underestimating how difficult this is, but it's something that we have to do. >> chris: let's talk about that other side of the equation, which we've been discussing throughout this hour. how badly has your state of ohio been hit in terms of jobs, in terms of the economy beginning to shrink? >> governor dewine: we've been hit very hard. we've had over a million people who have implied unemployment, so we are no different than most other states. i mean, we've been hit exceedingly hard. and again, as we look to come back carefully, it's not so much ctor issues, it's really about what people do and i emphasize that time and time again. we've got to be very careful as we do this because if were not careful we are going to roll backwards and have to shut things down and that's not what anyone wants to see.
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>> chris: you are like a lot of governors, governor, in the sense that you're taking hits from both sides. on the one hand, you're getting criticism that your reopening too fast. there is a in marion ohio, where the cases per capita is actually higher than new york city. the mayor of dayton is pushing back saying they don't have the testing are the contact tracing, so you're taking a hit on that side, but you're also taking a hit from conservatives, frankly a lot of people in your own party that you're moving too slowly. there up in a number of protests in the streets against you and your stay-at-home order saying let's move faster, and the state house of representatives in ohio, in columbus, just voted to take away your ability, your authority to issue a stay-at-home order that exceeds two weeks. so you're getting it from both sides, aren't you? >> governor dewine: yes we are, and i've made it clear to the legislature that reached us
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and i don't think it will, but i would be told that. look, i understand, chris, that people are anxious to get back. people hurting. we can't underestimate the businesses that are suffering. we can't underestimate the workers don't have jobs. and so that's why we have to move forward, but we have to move forward very, very carefully and my message to my fellow ohioans can be we can do two things at once but we can only do that if we are very, very careful about it so our future, our ability to open up ohio is going to depend whether people continue to do the social distancing. will they wear masks when they go out in public. we now have cooked -- for example, every business that opens unless there is some reason that they cannot do that, their employees have to wear masks. so we have some very tough standards as we are opening, but is going to come down really to the average citizen.
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when they go out and they go buy plans to put out, are they careful? are they in wear that mask? do they not make extra trips out? when they go out to they do what they have to do and then come back, so we can't stop doing that as we move forward. we would love to see the numbers go down. we think we are at about a 1 1:1 -- one person infecting one person. we would love to get those numbers down below that but we don't want to see it dramatically go up from where it is and we know it's a risk as we start the economy back open. but it's a risk if you don't too as far as all the consequences that we have with not being able to come back economically. >> chris: i've got about a minute left, so i'd like to get you out on this question. as you begin to reopen, there is of course the danger in a spike in cases. how will you judge whether that
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spike is serious and you have to shut on the government again and do you really think you could pull that off? how tough would that be to say, you know what, we are going to reinstitute the stay-at-home order and we will have to tell businesses that we just open, you've got to close, if that happens? >> governor dewine: you talked about marion, a great tragedy with our prisons, our nursing homes. that's happening across the country and we are working very, very hard. what i look every day is that the daily hospitalization rates, they are pretty flat, we will continue to monitor those, i see you, monitor the new patients. at the same time though, where dramatically pushing new testing. we are doing that with the tracing -- testing and tracing is an integral part of what we are doing and we are aggressive doing that. >> chris: governor, thank you. thanks for taking time out of your weekend to talk with us and to share your thinking here, thank you, sir. up next, we will bring in our
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sunday group to discuss the justice department's decision to drop the michael flynn case and joe biden's accuser speaks out. employees in the know. powered by the nation's largest gig-speed network. to help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. and a team of experts - here for you 24/7. we've always believed in the power of working together. that's why, when every connection counts... you can count on us.
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>> he was targeted by the obama administration and he was targeted in order to try and take down a president. >> he admitted lying to the fbi. the fact remains that he lied. >> well, you know, people sometimes plead the things that turn out not to be crimes. >> here, bill barr doing the political dirty work for the president. >> chris: attorney general william barr defending his decision to drop the case
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against michael flynn and reaction to that movm schiff and it's time now for our sunday group, former republican congressman jason chaffetz. fox news correspondent gillian turner and charles lane from "the washington post." congressman, michael flynn pleaded guilty twice to lying to the fbi and now the justice department suddenly drops his case. are you comfortable with that? >> well, i think what's been exposed, chris, is the lack of the underlying predicate to even go forward and do the types of interviews, the ambush, if you will, that they did on general flynn. i do applaud the president for firing michael flynn at the time. if you recall, he did lie to the vice president. he did like to reince priebus. that is a separate issue. the attorney general makes a very good point and i would also point out that you
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andrew mccabe, who the inspector general said lied to federal authorities and they decided not to prosecute that case as well. >> chris: president obama was talking to members of his administration, and obama alumni association on friday, it was an audio hookup, supposedly it was off the record, but it was leaked -- apparently he was talking to several thousand people so it's not surprising, and he talked about the fact that flynn got off, obama's words, scot-free. here he is. >> you begin to get worried that -- not just institutional norms, but our basic understanding of rule of law is at risk. >> chris: jillian, is the miscarriage of justice in this case that as the president -- president obama -- seems to indicate that the department of justice is dropping the case
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against flynn, or is the miscarriage of justice that they brought a case against him in the first place? >> well, president obama says the general flynn got off scot-free and that's simply not true. we cannot forget the fact that he is one of the only top senior, former administration officials to ever have been fired by two consecutive bipartisan presidents. that's not getting off scot-free. you know, he may not end up going to jail in this instance, but it's not a great benchmark to have on your resume. i will also say the attorney general bill barr was already a lightning rod for politicians here in washington with this decision. he's become virtually electric, stems from his time handling the mueller investigation. he did say that the reason he had the doj drop these criminal charges against flynn is because he wants to restore a sense of
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faith in the justice system. that's a noble cause. it's no secret that a lot of republicans have lost that faith in both the justice system and the intelligence community in recent years. to come back finally to your first question, chris, all of this doesn't make general michael flynn a hero. the fact that he's not going to end up serving hard time in prison for lies that he perpetrated to the fbi into two sitting american presidents, all of this doesn't mean he's getting off scot-free. he's leaving with a reputation in tatters and i think that that's justice. >> chris: chuck, let's pick up on what gillian said. bill barr. you'll have republicans who were saying that he is cleaning up from the mass of the james comey fbi. you have others saying he's doing, as adam schiff said, he's doing donald trump's dirty work. i'd like you to react to that end also, how do you expect the
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judge in this case, emmetto havo hear the decision to drop the case and has been out, how do you expect him to react when he hears this case and the decision to drop it? >> well, first on bill barr, it's abundantly clear that two things are true about bill barr. he things the mueller investigation was wrongheaded, a fiasco and he's going to try and clean that up, in his view, no matter what, and secondly he doesn't particularly care about the heat he might get from democrats. and there's a basic underlying fact here that's crucial to understanding what's going on. and that is that the flynn predicament has turned into sort of a cause on the republican right. president trump's kindle into that and president trump, one way or the other, i think, once
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michael flynn set loose, and by doing it this way, barr, in effect, liberates the president from ever having to issue a pardon, which many of us thought would have been inevitable otherwise. the fly in the ointment might be judge emmett sullivan, who as you say has been both critical of the justice department's excesses in the past and of general flynn in this case. and he does i think have it within his power to refuse this justice department motion to dismiss and in effect force the president to deal with it himself. the question is really where the buck is going to stop in terms of this case. right now it has stopped with bill barr, who is then passed it to the judge and if the judge passes it back, i think it will end up stopping with president trump. >> chris: all right, let's turn to joe biden and former
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staffer tara reade, allegations that he sexually assaulted her in 1993. the big addition to the story this week is that she spoke out to megyn kelly, here's a clip from that. >> you want him to withdraw? >> i wish he would. but he won't, but i wish you would. >> chris: gillian, how badly do you think, particularly now that we've seen in hurt her, tara reade's account hurts joe biden, and do you think it jeopardizes his prospects for winning -- for actually securing the democratic nomination in august? >> i don't know yet, kris, if it jeopardizes his chances, but it's undoubtedly the case that it hurts him. this is precisely the kind of speculation that any democrat presidential candidate does not want to have chasing them along the campaign trail. i don't need to remind you that this is the same type of
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ident trump while he was running for office back in 2016. it was a cudgel the democrats used back then to hammer him with over and over again. that said, i think we always have to reframe these discussions about sexual assault, sexual abuse, harassment and rape, reframe them outside of politics because i think what we are seeing happen again, in this case, the same thing happened to the accusers and justice brett kavanaugh's cases that four women who were sexually abused, sexually assaulted and raped, politics are not forefront on the agenda. i think when we talk about -- for example, democrats, everybody from nancy pelosi to the dnc to biden himself have been trying to dismiss tara reade's claims based on technicalities, right? this happened a long time ago, statute of limitations. she didn't file the right paperwork at the time, she didn't file the right paperwork now, parsing her words and everything will interview.
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the problem with all of this is it victimizes these women twice and i think this is something that politicians are doing a disservice to women on when they insist on going down this road, so there's the political angle on all of this and then there's also this woman, what she may have suffered and what she went through. i think it's just important to distinguish. >> chris: congressman, i think you have to note though that despite allegations, whether they were true or not, donald trump in the 2016 campaign, brett kavanaugh and his confirmation hearing for the supreme court, both weathered the allegations against them and one went on to be elected president, one ended up being confirmed to the supreme court, what you think will happen in the biden case, will it block them from the democratic nomination? >> i think democrats have cause to be concerned, because i think they know and have seen joe biden over the last 50 years just roll the tape since he was the vice president and the creepy things that he's doing to
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people on camera. but what it really, really highlights, particularly to conservatives who are very sensitive to this but it should be to everybody is tof the natie double standard in which they cover the story and certainly the #metoo movement, who made this big effort to say every woman should be believed and then all of a sudden somebody comes and accuses the democrat and they're nowhere to be found. that double standard is not lost on the american people and i think has political ramifications as well. >> chris: chuck, what makes this particularly interesting in the case of biden is one of the main things he's running on his character and what he's claiming is a big distinction between his character and out of donald trump. if you have a woman -- and again, we don't know what her allegation is true or not. it may end up being like a lot of these, he said, she said, but when you got this allegation against him and his character,
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is that especially damaging to biden? >> i think it doesn't help and we've seen his momentum in this sort of weird basement of your own home campaign, this momentum has really been stalled and obviously this is not what he would want to have facing him at this point and i think obviously -- equally obviously, it's why republicans are making such a big issue out of it, but really in the end, chris, voters i think are going to focus on two things in the big picture here. one is, like all reelections, this is a referendum on the incumbent and by the time november rolls around, we will be in the middle of a horrific economic problem with the pandemic of people are going to vote based on getting out of that. >> chris: and you think that unless there is another woman or must there is another big allegation, that this goes away you might >> i don't think it goes away, i just don't think it's not the factor that's going to decide very much.
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>> chris: thank you, panel, see you next sunday. up next our "power players of the week," finding a way to celebrate mom's on mother's day even during thene pandemic. ♪ ♪ love is all you need.
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>> chris: on this mother's day, we ask you to tell us how your honoring the moms in
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your life, despite the challenges and social distance we are all dealing with now. so here are our power players of the week. >> mother's day this year with covid is definitely going to look different for our families. >> we're just going to plan to stay home, stay safe and stay quarantined. >> just really keep it simple. i think that's the key to surviving right now. >> chris: praising mom is easy. >> she's constantly thinking about other people. it's been no different during the pandemic. >> everything i know about being a mom i learned from you. >> happy mother's day, the two most important women in my life, they helped raise me and my brother ever since we lost our mom back in 2017. >> chris: but doing it from a distance as hard. >> that's been one of the most difficult session getting emotional. that's been one of the most -- toughest parts, my parents live far away but i haven't been able to see them.
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>> chris: alicia and her mother will be close, but not close enough. >> my own mother lives just a couple of streets away. >> those that have chosen to self-quarantined. >> i will be dropping off her gifts on her porch and saying high from the window. >> the mother's day brunch, but it doesn't have to be a sad time. >> chris: there will still be gifts. >> you're buying me a new dining room table, did you know that? i don't think you know that. >> we have a really old laptop that she's been using which keeps crashing in the middle of the zoom meetings so this mother's day we are surprising her with a brand-new ipad. >> chris: teaching the kids while working full-time. >> covid-19 has made parenting really hard. >> playing a lot of different roles. chef, waiter, teacher, referee. >> i always thought -- but it's
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kind of like because of covid-19 i'm wearing hats and gloves and shoes. >> chris: in these tough times, everyone realizes how much they depend on mom. >> all want to wish all the moms out there happy mother's day, especially this one. >> we also wanted to wish our own moms a happy mother's day. >> happy mother's day, you're awesome, you're amazing. >> to all the mothers, enjoy your day. >> i hope you also loved and appreciated. >> your strength is the reason we get through this. >> hope to see you soon. >> love you, mom, and happy mother's day to all the moms out there. >> chris: and all of us here want to join the chorus. to all you moms out there, happy mother's day. and that's it for today, have a great week and we will see you next "fox news sunday." ♪ (announcer) who can you always rely on to be there
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