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tv   MSNBC Live With Ali Velshi  MSNBC  April 3, 2018 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT

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president trump has spent the day posturing. last hour he wrapped up a joint press conference with leaders of the baltic states, estonia, latvia, lithuania. these three are looking for more security against russia in protecting their independence, even though trump repeated his claim no one is tougher on the kremlin than he is. >> there's nobody been tougher on russia and with that being said i think i could have a very good relationship with president putin, i think. it is possible i won't and you will know about it, believe me. this room will know about it before i know about it. getting along with russia is a good thing. getting along with china is a good thing. >> the president made a point in the news conference calling it fake news. he started with a twitter rant, he slammed who he calls fake news networks.
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then a big caravan of people crossing into the united states, nine minutes back to attacking the media. this time cnn. few minutes later, praised rasmussen for favorable apology. three hours later tweeted more criticism about amazon. joining me from the white house, nbc news's jeff bennett. good afternoon to you. continues to be eventful around there. with respect to the tweets about amazon and immigration, they're very confusing. >> reporter: they are very confusing. i have to say that the confusion has continued and spread across other topics to include what you said about russia. heard the president twice today say that nobody has been tougher on russia than he's been. of course, you have a disconnect between the president's con speck with us silence to say anything critical of president vladimir putin, while his administration has taken steps to of course expel 60 diplomats,
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which the administration considers to be spies, intelligence agents, and steps to impose russia sanctions. and then on the issue of syria, last week the president said he wanted to withdraw 2,000 troops currently in syria today, did a bit of clean up work, saying he wants to stay there until the fight against isis is done. the president also said that he might consider staying if saudi arabia chooses to pay for the u.s. troop presence in syria. if the u.s. does withdraw from syria, who benefits most from that? >> the russians. >> reporter: russia, that's right. then the border wall, the president saying he wants to militarize the border. look at what he said the last hour. >> first of all, the border. the mexican border is very unprotected by our laws. we have horrible, horrible, unsafe laws in the united states and we're going to be able to do something about that hopefully soon. we are preparing for the
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military to secure our border between mexico and the united states. we have a meeting on it in a little while with general mattis and everybody. i think that it is something we have to do. >> reporter: on this issue, appears the president is getting ahead of his own aides and advisers. in the past, he described the removal of undocumented immigrants as military action. we should note george w. bush and president obama sent national guard troops to the border, but it is hard to make a comparison. we don't have enough clarity about what the president intends to do on this specific issue. >> thank you so much for joining us. russia as jeff said remains the top topic to the president. he received several questions on his relationship with russia and its leader, vladimir putin, during today's press conference. with me to discuss it further, retired navy admiral, chief
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contributor, former supreme allied kmanld allied commander of nato. and there's a lot to talk to you about, admiral, that came out of the president's press conference. but he had a press conference with the president of latvia, president of lithuania and president of estonia. these are interesting places. many have large russian populations, some more integrated than others, but they are not going to be sympathetic to the president's view that the president can have a great relationship with vladimir putin. these are countries that continue to live under threat of russian expansionism. >> when i became supreme allied commander of nato, i visited each of the baltic countries and went many times in the course of four years as commander. first time you visit a baltic country as a significant visitor they take you to the kgb museum. each of those countries has one. it is the old kgb prison where
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many of their conationalists were shot to death by kgb forces. they have a long memory of living under the russian boot and they're not going to forget that. they consistently talk to me throughout my time as supreme allied commander about the danger russia poses, this was back in 2010, 2011, 2012, when the invasion of ukraine came around, i think it validated their position strongly that russia is not a friend to the west and certainly not a friend to the united states. >> these three countries in particular are among the strongest supporters of the nato alliance. >> they absolutely are. they have deployed consistently to afghanistan. they've always been part of counter piracy missions. they host large nato forces in their countries. they're all significant contributors to nato, even though they're very small, in proportion to the size of the
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nation. so we ought to protect them, reassure them. they're very much part of this alliance, and we need to make sure russia cannot impose themselves across that nato border. down that path leads real conflict with russia. >> let me ask you about comments on syria. let's play what president trump said about pulling troops out of syria. >> i want to get out, i want to bring our troops back home. i want to start rebuilding our nation. we will have as of three months ago $7 trillion in the middle east over the last 17 years. we get nothing, nothing out of it. nothing. and as you remember in civilian life for years, i was saying keep the oil. we didn't keep the oil. >> admiral, look, there are a lot of people with valid criticisms about the iraq war and complaints about 17 years in
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afghanistan and iraq. >> sure. >> i'm not sure of the getting nothing out of it is the right take away. >> of course not. and that sound you heard off camera was secretary of defense jim mattis' head exploding when he heard the president talk about we're going to immediately pull out of syria and roll out that extremely populous vision. look, what we do when we engage overseas, ali, is create a network of allies, partners and friends and we need that, otherwise we are going to see iran in that region align with russia and believe me, they will take the oil. they'll take the oil of saudi arabia, then we will have a massive global problem ahead of us. we've got to works to protect israel, saudi and other sunni arab country allies, egypt, jordan, saudi arabia, gulf states. they're face ago real threat from iran.
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if we cut and run from syria, we will throw that battle space open to russia, to syria, and above all to iran. it would be a geopolitical mistake. >> this complicates the president's response because i'm not clear whether he sort of believes that getting out of there, we get nothing in return and we're not building allies or whether this is as jeff suggested some see it as a gift to russia. russia would like nothing more than for the united states to pull out of syria. >> that's exactly right which is kind of reason number one, we shouldn't simply walk away and turn over the keys to an extremely important region of the world to vladimir putin. and this gets back to the president's view of russia and the president's view of vladimir putin which i think continues to understate the threat. we could take a pretty good lesson listening to baltic countries about russia and their expansionism, particularly under vladimir putin. >> and admiral, let me ask you
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about this, one of the things the president brought up which his predecessors have done, the idea of sending militarized troops to the border. in the past it was national guard troops. the president broadly said the military, so not sure what he means, but he is talking about until the wall is built sending troops there. what do you think? >> i think we all want to be able to control our border, full stop. but first of all, the idea of building a 30 foot wall for 2,000 miles, very expensive. 30 to $70 billion, ali. and here's a news flash, and i know this is true because i am an admiral. to the left of the wall is an ocean. if people want to get here, they'll find ways to sail here in boats, to fly here in planes, cross at legal crossings. what we need to do is control border using technology using unmanned vehicles, using our excellent border guard, using department of homeland security,
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in real extreme emergency you could bring national guard troops. i don't feel that sense of emergency. i look at this more as a political move by the president than i do a serious effort to, quote, control the border. dhs, department of homeland security, give them the resources, let them use technology. don't build a simple wall. let's make an intelligent 21st century border control entity. we can do that. >> intelligent 20th, 21st century solution doesn't roll off the tongue as well as build the wall. admiral, good to see you. thank you for joining us. retired u.s. navy admiral. msnbc's chief international security and diplomacy contributor. he is by the way the dean of fletcher school at tufts. embattled environmental protection agency administrator scott pruitt facing harsh criticism over allegations of excessive spending and ethics violations.
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latest criticism from carlos curbelo. he said they're an embarrassment and grossly disrespectful to american taxpayers. it's time for him to resign or potus to dismiss him. seems pruitt is still getting support from the white house. nbc news learned that president trump called pruitt last night to offer his support and that white house chief of staff john kelly did the same this morning. the epa chief did not mention that conversation or those conversations this morning when he announced roll back of fuel efficiency standards put into place by the obama administration. >> we should be focused upon making the cars more efficient because if not, then emissions will go up. we will get this right going forward this year, but it is very right for us to be here to recognize that what was done in 2011 and 2012 as we evaluate it
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now is not appropriate going forward. >> worth noting, this is the head of the epa, has a history of climate change denial. despite appearing to have the president's support, pruitt faces a barrage of negative headlines. the inspector general investigating his travel habits, including flights in first class and on military aircraft, seems to be an issue for this administration. "the washington post" reports that the epa considered leasing a private plane for his travels, which could have cost as much as $100,000 a month. the atlantic reports that pruitt used an obscure provision of a law to give two of his closest aides huge raises after the white house declined his request to do so. epa spokesman told the atlantic that pruitt was unaware the request wasn't submitted to presidential personnel office and he ordered it sent there for review. according to "the new york times," pruitt was staying in a
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condo, partly owned by the wife of an energy lobbyist. he paid 50 bucks a night to rent the room, didn't have to pay when he wasn't staying there. the agency says the arrangement was consistent with federal ethics rules. if nothing else, this guy is a guy who can do a show how to save money. "new york times" reports the epa signed off on a pipeline expansion project pushed for by one of that lobbyist's clients. joining us to talk about this, the man that broke the last story, "new york times" investigative reporter eric lip ton. eric, there seems to be a consistent strain of scott pruitt's epa or scott pruitt himself at the epa not sticking within boundaries that a number of ethics experts would say would be appropriate. that's putting it lightly. what have you found? >> we've heard even from the white house there's some
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discomfort with things pruitt has done with regard to spending and his personal matters that as he has been running the agency, on the other hand, this is the guy from toxic chemicals to clean power plan to methane gas to coal ash, he is rolling back rule after rule after rule, consistent with what trump wants to do in terms of deregulation and i am pressing sompressing i. the embarrassment it brought the administration, he is like their star player when it comes to deregulation. >> seems like the white house given our reporting, that he gotten couraging calls from the president and john kelly. they don't want him to resign or resign in the face of investigative reports like yours. draw the link between your reporting which involves a canadian pipeline company, a lobbyist and an apartment in washington. >> in that situation the reason
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you don't want to be renting a condo from the wife of the chairman of a lobbying firm that has a long list of clients that have matters before the epa is it undermines the integrity of the process, even if he was not asked to intervene, even if he did not intervene, if he is a tenant in this unit at the same time his agency signs off on approving a pipeline project that will bring great benefit to this client's interest, it undermines the public's ability to have complete confidence that there was not an intervention. that's why you have rules that require members of the administration to not only avoid real conflicts of interest, but to avoid even the appearance of conflicts of interest. and he clearly has created a situation where there's appearance of potential conflict, and that's bringing him great scrutiny. it is becoming a distraction. at the same time, today he is announcing another roll back or plan for roll back relative to miles per gallon standards, then
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the counter message on all of the stories, he is being investigated for this and that. it's not the message the administration wants, i don't think. >> let me ask you this. there are some people that would have concerns with the idea that the head of the epa is rolling back emission standards, does not seem to believe in human inputs into climate change. that's separate. these are policy issues. given that he is already a lightning rod for people that care about the environment, what's wrong with scott pruitt and with the ethics monitors at the epa? this stuff, this doesn't need ethics experts to tell you there are problems. you articulated it why you don't want to rent the condo from the wife of an energy company with business with the epa. most people can figure this out. >> it is hard for me to understand why someone former attorney general of oklahoma, former state legislator from oklahoma would not see the optics of this and realize this
quote
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is something he doesn't want to get near or to repeatedly be taking first class flights as he was, he argued because he needed additional security. again, the federal government says you're supposed to take coach flights unless there's adequate justification for repeated first class flight, and i don't understand. he is a very smart guy, very smart. i don't understand that he doesn't see this will complicate his effort to roll back the rules. >> yeah. it is a bit of a mystery. thanks for the great reporting on this, eric lipton. up next, first person sentenced in the russian investigation is heading to prison. what it tells us about the larger investigation and new rorlt on what president trump is saying about jeff bezos behind closed doors. it involves a word kapt say on tv. i have said words in the last year i never thought i would say on tv.
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alexander van der zwaan got a 30 day sentence and $20,000 fine. he pled guilty in february to lying about his contacts with former trump campaign aide rick gates and a person believed to be a former russian military intelligence officer. nbc news intelligence and national security reporter joins us with more. ken, this is not a name everybody was following closely, but it is significant in that it is the first sentencing of someone in the mueller probe. tell us what it's about. >> that's right. look, van der zwaan is not central to the mueller investigation. he doesn't appear to have been linked in any way to the trump campaign, but he lied to investigators while they were investigating paul manafort and rick gates who were running the trump campaign. what this mainly is, is a message to hundreds, that you lie to them, objestruct at your peril. only got 30 days in jail, but he is a lawyer, with felony conviction, his legal career is
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over, likely to be disbarred. the most important thing learned from the case, ali, is that the government has evidence that person a, russian intelligence officer he lied about talking to had on-going ties to russian intelligence during the presidential campaign while he was in communication with rick gates who was the deputy chairman of the campaign. we don't know what other communications they had and what that was all about, but that's deeply significant, whether anyone in the trump campaign colluded with the russian interference effort. >> thanks for reporting on this. i want to look at some of special counsel robert mueller's other targets. he obtained guilty pleas from four people, former energy adviser, george pop dop lus, former national security adviser, michael flynn, rick gates and a california man that sold bank account numbers, richard pinedo.
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former trump campaign chair paul manafort is charged with among other things conspiracy against the united states and money laundering. he pleaded not guilty, special counsel has charged 13 russian individuals and businesses. it is unlikely those 13 entities will ever face trial here in the united states. joining us to talk about all of this, stanley pot in injury, former attorney general in the civil rights division that discovered that mark felt was the watergate informant known as deep throat. stan, good to see you. let's go back to the van der zwaan thing a second. what we don't understand is what this guy's motivation was, ken says he has no particular connection to the trump campaign. >> exactly. so something interesting is going on that we can't see, that seems to be true for a lot of the investigation. however, look at it this way. he got a sentence, doesn't have a cooperation agreement. almost unheard of. he said it is all over.
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i told you everything i know, mueller said you're done. you don't need to do any more. that's interesting. what did he say about the investigation into russia. something that wiseman went to court to say we don't want any of this, your honor shown to msnbc or anybody else. >> they said it will not be subject to freedom of information requests. there's something going on. >> exactly. very bizarre. another bizarre thing makes you wonder, he is a lawyer, he knows you can't destroy. >> high end lawyer. worked for a top firm. >> yeah. he worked for the firm, he knows you can't destroy e-mail, yet he did. he knows you can't lie, yet he did. and interesting, two weeks after he allegedly told his lies, not allegedly, he was convicted, he came back and corrected the
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record. what happened during the two weeks. did he decide he needed to come back or did mueller say i have to tell you, you lied and you're in he cantrouble. usually people that correct the record, two weeks usually. >> something is going on we don't know the full extent of. rod rosenstein, acting attorney general, deputy attorney general who is in charge of russian investigation has sent a memo authorizing robert mueller to investigate manafort's collusion allegations, collusion with russians. is this important to you? >> it is because up until now, even though we haven't focused on it, manafort's alleged violations have nothing -- >> they have been money laundering, 2015 before trump was born as a candidate. we always wonder what's going on. now he is saying there's something connected. that makes it interesting. you put that together with other hints the special prosecutor is
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giving us about, for instance, van der zwaan, then you think they've got something that they believe connected them to a russian. van der zwaan has a connection to a russian. his wife's father is a russian millionaire, oligarch. maybe that oligarch brought that business to the firm to begin with. >> worth noting again that connection, that is that van der zwaan did have contact with gates who is manafort's protege. >> exactly. >> we don't know what the connections all are. stan, good to see you. stanley p president trump's war with amazon and "the washington post." despite the president shouting tweets, it could have very little to do with taxes or the post office and everything to do with amazon ceo jeff bezos. you're watching msnbc. captivating exteriors
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stations across the country, could add to that if the plan to purchase tribune media gets federal approval. president trump supported in support of sinclair writing the fake news networks, those with a sick and biased agenda are worried about competition and quality of sinclair broadcasts. trump went onto attack three of four major networks, many are sinclair affiliates. the president's morning tweetathon included attack on amazon, his new favorite target. i am right about amazon costing the united states post office massive amounts of money for being their delivery boy. amazon should pay these costs plus, and not have them borne by the american taxpayer. many billions of dollars, po leaders don't have a clue, note the way he spelled borne. hours later, during a round table a reporter asked what
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amazon had done to deserve the president's ire. >> the post office is losing billions of dollars and the taxpayers are paying for that money because it delivers packages for amazon at a very below cost, and that's not fair to the united states, it is not fair to our taxpayers, and amazon has the money to pay the fair rate at the post office which would be much more than they are paying now. sources in a new report from "vanity fair" say they're not true, this is all about amazon ceo jeff bezos who also owns "the washington post." according to four sources close to the white house, trump has been talking about escalating twitter attacks on amazon. one source saying he's off the hook on this, it's war. adding another source saying he gets obsessed with something, now he is obsessed with bezos.
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joining me, "vanity fair" special correspondent that wrote the piece and msnbc contributor. gabe, the post office has been losing money largely because of decline in postal mail, that volume replaced by packages. as we talked about, this is one big distraction. talking postal rates and amazon is not really the issue here. "the washington post" and jeff bezos are the issue. >> this is really a proxy war for donald trump to go after one of his perceived media enemies, "the washington post," which we should point out owned personally by jeff wbezos, nothing to do with amazon. all my reporting, i interviewed the editor of the post in the past. jeff bezos has very little, nothing to do with editorial decisions. yet in donald trump's imagination, he is the all powerful man behind the curtain, scripting all of the negative articles budget him. therefore, he is using the power of the presidency, donald trump is using the power of the oval office to attack one of his
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perceived media enemies. it is a very troubling development, not only in american politics but in american business because now we have the president of the united states essentially picking winners and losers. >> a natural outcropping of his attacking the media which he continues to do. let me read something from the article. says even trump's allies acknowledge much of what is fueling trump's rage towards amazon is that ceo jeff bezos owns "the washington post." one former white house official says he looks at the post the same way he looks at the national enquirer. when bezos says he has no involvement, trump doesn't believe him. his experience is with the david pickers of the world, company that owns national enquirer. in trump's view it is not possible that the editor and chief of "the washington post" is his nemesis as a journalist. in his world, bezos owns the post, hence if the post has negative coverage of the president, it must be jeff bezos' problem. that's an issue from first
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amendment perspective and president attacking the media perspective, and now as you introduce, it is a problem in that the president is choosing companies over other companies. there are consequences to this. this can go further. >> without question. we have seen the stock market react to this. amazon stock was down yesterday around 5%. down almost 10% the last few weeks. sources say he is seriously considering cancelling a pending contract that amazon has up forbid with the defense department. they also have some very large federal contracts that donald trump would like to revoke. that could hurt amazon's bottom line. we are talking billions of dollars that he wants to exact pain on amazon with. and that to me again is troubling that the president would use personal an moimosity dictate a private company. >> this article is worth reading. it is a big deal that the
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president is attacking a private company. now to potentially a huge problem threatening our national security and it involves the tech industry. lawmakers in congress are worried foreign adversaries like china could get their hands on critical u.s. technology, simply by investing in u.s. companies. that could give china an edge on technology that drives america's economy and military. now, the commission that monitors such things flagged this in a 2012 report, warning that state backed chinese companies were choosing to invest in u.s. companies based on strategic rather than market based considerations. there's a u.s. government body that's supposed to stop this from happening, called the committee for foreign investment in the u.s. it is supposed to look for national security risks that come with these kinds of st strategic investment. there's a concern investment in the united states could mean some cases fall through the cracks, and many deals are
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structured so they fall outside this committee's jurisdiction. there's bipartisan legislation backed by the trump administration that's looking into this. the bill would expand the committee's jurisdiction, sieve yus jurisdiction, give it power to suspend transactions, possibly block them all together. one of architects of that legislation, from north carolina, robert pin in injury, member of house committee, good friend of the show. good to have you back. >> good to see you. >> let's talk about this particular issue. we're in the midst of a discussion about tariffs on chinese goods and chinese imposing counter veiling tariffs on the united states. lost in that are valid concerns shared by both parties about china and technology and america. give me your sales pitch on
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this. >> yes, you stated it quite well. frankly, the chinese are adept at extracting relationships with american companies and agreements with them where our american companies have to give over technology for military application. happened in 2011, they did a partnership with avionics industry in china and for what would be dual use purposes, having a commercial purpose but really it became applicable for military use, and something they needed in the avionics technology. these are all critical. the chinese have been aggressively pursuing the acquisition of semiconductor companies since 2015. they've acquired 43 of these, 20 of these in the united states. these are a supply chain to our
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defense system. so it is critical for a security point of view that we have better, more thorough review of these types of partnerships and acquisitions. >> you wrote an op-ed in which you mentioned ge and ibm and business dealings with china. both companies century responsibilities to the op-ed. i want to read them back, get your take on it. from christopher padilla. it would drastically expand the mission of cfius, bringing under government review countedless sales and license transactions by u.s. companies, and ge writes we don't support expansion of the jurisdiction to outbound u.s. investments into joint venlt yours, doing so would september back economic interest, creating a bureaucracy completely redundant with the
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existing u.s. export control system. i ask you this. reporter a republican. republicans tend to not like to add bureaucracies or overwork the existing bureaucracy. how do you respond to both criticisms from ibm and ge? >> clearly ne wathey want the s quo, it worked economically for them and transactions they have with china. but we have to look at this from a national security view. this is a bipartisan bill. it is laser focused on military application. we're not looking at overall trade concerns or issues. i had the largest hog processing plant in the world in my district, 5,000 people are employed, smithfield, owned by china. that's not a concern to cfius or to us. what is a concern is access china has to american companies to gain this proprietary technology. we have to protect it. president xi made it clear their
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interest in that technology. that's an issue we should be concerned about to the fullest extent. while i appreciate the business interests that they have with china and other countries, american interests must come first. cfius can and should be expanded to cover the loopholes out. right now, they can buy into a joint venture and have access and force the conveyance technology information that they would previously not have access to. >> right. >> and with that, we need to make sure that that technology access is not there. >> congressman, as always, thank you for joining me. good conversation. coming up, the president is suggesting the military protect the southern border. i am going to talk to a local sheriff who happens to be a son
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and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now - and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. we know that when you're spending time with the grandkids every minute counts. and you don't have time for a cracked windshield. that's why we show you exactly when we'll be there. saving you time, so you can keep saving the world. >> kids: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace ♪ the president has floated plan after plan in an attempt to fulfill his campaign promise to
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secure the u.s., mexico border. today he floated yet another one. >> doing things militarily until we can have a wall and proper security, we're going to be guarding our border with the military. that's a big step. we really haven't done that before. >> okay. this isn't necessarily a new idea. both presidents obama and bush sent the national guard to the border a short period of time, but i want to talk more about the border, not the politics of it, the actual border, how to better protect it, the relationship between the border and drugs and the relationship between immigration and agriculture. and for that, i am joined by a guy uniquely positioned to have all these discussions, howard buffett. author of our 50 state boarder crisis, how the mexican border fuels the drug epidemic. he is a philanthropist, sheriff, volunteer deputy in two states and son of business magnet warren buffett. he runs the philanthropic arm of
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the family operation. howard, good to see you again. >> great to see you, ali. >> we're going to try to have a conversation about the border and its relationship to drugs that isn't a political conversation. >> tough to do. >> it is tough to do. but you have two properties on the border. you work in agriculture. you have working ranches and farms. you believe that we should make a connection between a border that's not as secure as it should be and the 115 people that die every day of opioid overdoses, almost 12 million in america who abuse opioids. >> absolutely. what happens in law enforcement and families that lose loved ones, they're thinking about it in a localized situation. fact is that 90, 95% of drugs used across the country come from or through mexico. in order to fight this battle, we have to secure the border. >> what's the solution is most
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viable? >> there are several have to happen. one, we have to address how the command is handled on the border. what i mean by that, there are federal agents there, we need agents similar to fbi, secret service and fbi and dea in the sense that they have flexibility within their job description and at the command level to mandate what the agents do. >> there are a bunch of different agencies that operate on the border. >> lot of agencies. and then the other issue is getting cooperation between them. >> right. what do you think of the president's suggestion of sending the military. he tends to use that as a response to anything. but what do you think of it? >> you have to break it down. to take the military per se, most people think of the military and put it on the border, it is a huge mistake. they have a mission completely different than law enforcement. they're not trained for law
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enforcement. however, you have one segment of the department of defense with the u.s. coast guard who is well trained in law enforcement and performs law enforcement duties every day. you could somehow if you needed which we've do need more resources, you could apply the coast guard resources to the border issue immediately. if you wanted to. i think you can integrate that well. but talking about it like truly militarizing the border, putting the military on it, you're going have some bad things happen because you're taking people out of one mission and putting them into another mission, and they don't have the cross training for that. >> let's talk about agriculture. we constantly talk to farmers, we talk to politicians from iowa or kansas and, you know, they talk about the fact that a lot of their people do rely upon immigrant labor. some of those immigrants are undocumented. >> a lot of them. >> yeah. and that the cost for all of us would go up and they'd have labor issues. others say, hey, there's unemployed americans, why can't we fill these jobs with
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unemployed americans? >> well, i would say two things. one is, if you really believe that americans want that job, go try to hire them. we've done that through our farm in arizona, you cannot hire americans for these jobs. it's just that simple. that's a fact. okay? and we have to advertise in multiple states and if an american walks up, we have to -- even if we had someone hired from mexico, we have to pay them and they go back. and we've had no luck hiring americans. so you just -- you don't get it done. the second thing is, go out in a field in yuma, arizona, or fresno, california, most american s aren't going to cut it, they're just not going to make it so i think it's a complete fallacy to say that farmworkers that are here that are doing the farmwork, i think it's a complete fallacy to say they're taking american jobs. >> what would be the effect of seeing them disappear in large numbers? >> well, we saw it -- >> the white house has suggested. >> we saw it briefly because when arizona passed their law, you know, a few years ago, they
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saw a huge impact in areas, and, of course, yuma has a little bit different opportunity because they're right on the border. >> right. >> you can move back and forth differently. but if you look what happened in alabama, what happened in georgia and michigan, all of a sudden there were crops literally left in the field. it cost farmers hundreds of millions of dollars. that was a short little speck in time. whereas if we took it on seriously and did that, you would see supermarkets that could not fill their shelves. >> this is a thoughtful look at a topic that is highly politicized and we're talking about every day. howard has taken a nonpolitical look at our 50 state border crisis: how the mexican border fuels the drug epidemic across america. good read. thank you, howard. >> thank you, great to see you. >> howard buffett, businessman, philanthropist and president of the howard g. buffett foundation. up next, live to oklahoma where tens of thousands of teachers are joining a grou
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groundswell nationwide movement calling for higher pay and increase in funding for students. you're watching msnbc. so that's the idea. what do you think? i don't like it. oh. nuh uh. yeah. ahhhhh. mm-mm. oh. yeah. ah. agh. d-d-d... no. hmmm. uh... huh. yeah. uh... huh. in business, there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you. so we're doing it. yes. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we help all types of businesses with money, tools and know-how to get business done. american express open.
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classes are already canceled again tomorrow in oklahoma city, as teachers take over the state capitol for another day. in just the last hour, one lawmaker came out to address the teachers and to tell them not to give up. >> this is your house. don't let anybody tell you you can't be here. >> thank you. >> but what i need you to stay strong, i need you to understand that there's a legislative
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process. >> the state senate is in session, but of the four items on the docket today, we're told none of them are related to the walkout or school funding. marianna is in oklahoma city for us. frustrations seem to be growing for these teachers. >> reporter: especially after today, ali, you have the oklahoma house and the senate adjourned for the day and as you said, nothing on education was brought up for discussion. there are a few teachers lingering behind me now. a lot of them vowing to come back tomorrow. so i want to speak to one of them, this is ray who teaches fifth grade. ray, you told me you work two jobs just to make ends meet. >> yes, ma'am. for the last four years, i've worked eed at a brom's, subway sandwich and general dollar store. there's something wrong when you have a master's degree and you're ringing a cash register to put your kid through college and pay for things like scouting. >> reporter: you're a republican, ray, you told me this is a republican-led legislature here.
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>> yes, ma'am. >> reporter: what is your message to lawmakers? >> there's nowhere to run and hide. this is bigger than party politics. for instance, maybe they would say, well, you're a democrat, you not going to vote for me, anyway. i'm a republican. there's midterm elections coming up. as i told you earlier, so help me if they put an "r" on the fence post and run against one of these incumbents who don't fix this funding, i will vote for the fence post. >> reporter: legislators, republican ones, who i've spoken to today, say it's not only about education, they have to just look at the budget for health, for other things. what do you say to that? >> i think that's a little divide and conquer. i think we can pay for the things we need. we're not just fighting for a raise. what they've already offered, i would be satisfied, but, ma'am, i have 36 kids in my class, 10 of them don't have textbooks for math. i was teaching the other day and had to teach out of two different books. we have money to fix this.
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remember, this is the same legislature who's found money to give themselves several raises over the last few years but they're trying to tell us they can't put a textbook in every kid's hand? we're not buying it, ma'am, we're not buying it. >> reporter: we've seen this happen also in states like kentucky. >> yes, ma'am. >> reporter: is this a trend we're seeing in gop-led state? >> absolutely, i have 11 to 14 very close friends in education from alabama to virginia to tennessee and i can tell you, this mood of the schoolkids being the last thing on the back of the stove, this is going to stop, whatever it takes, we're going to hold them accountable. >> reporter: thank you so much for your time, ray. whatever it takes, and it's going to take, as you heard, teachers coming back tomorrow, in their view, to keep pressuring lawmakers to reach some sort of resolution. ali? >> that was an impassioned plea from a teacher. what a great conversation. all right, thanks very much. thanks for your great coverage of what i think is one of the most important topics of our time. we're not going to give up on that story. i'm going to see you back here
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tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. with stephanie then again at 3:00 p.m. eastern. thank you for watching. "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace starts right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. today's the day when you have to decide if you believe in coincidences. donald trump woke. up to news today that special counsel bob mueller was explicitly authorized by his appointees of the justice department to investigate whether the president's former campaign chairman illegally coordinated with russia. then in twin appearances with the leaders of three baltic states, donald trump wanted to make one thing abundantly clear when it comes to russia, no one has been tougher than donald trump. and, yes, he referred to himself in the third person. take a look. >> getting along with russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. now, maybe we will, and maybe we won't. and probably nobody's been tougher to russia than donald trump.

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