tv MSNBC Live With Alex Witt MSNBC April 28, 2018 9:00am-10:00am PDT
with just the sound of your voice, xfinity x1 gives you a front row seat to the billboard music awards, including throwback clips from some of your favorite artists. the 2018 billboard music awards, sunday, may 20th. only on nbc. that's our show for today. "am joy" will be back tomorrow. our lovely intern is leaving. we'll miss you. i love you. >> i love you, too. >> thank you. feel better, miles. alex witt is up next. >> she doesn't even wear makeup. >> it's youth my friend. good day to all of you. i'm alex witt here. first the president firing off
the attack after a failed nomination for veterans affairs and now a new report for another job for his chief of staff. a judge holds off on a lawsuit from stormy danielses while the attorney makes a move that one says is political suicide. the house chaplain fired. and now more than 100 members of politics demanding was politics behind this decision? plus, unexpected support. what really might be behind the tweets about the president from kanye west. new today, the president in a feet earlier calling for senator jon tester from montana to resign over tester's spans helping to kill dr. ronny jackson's resignation. and midwhile, amid his fresh tweets on that and north korea, he will hold a mission to
correspond with tonight's correspondents dinner. all of this comes as there's a new twist in the stormy daniels investigation involving the president's lawyer, of course, michael cohen. to details and analysis to hosts that have unfolded, we have nbc's kelly o'donnell at the white house. and joining us pbs news. and betsy woodruff from daily beast. and author chris whipple here in the studio. let's go to kelly at the white house. kelly, the president taking direct aim at senator tester today. what's he saying? >> reporter: well, this has a lot to do with electoral politics, jon tester, a democrat is up for re-election. control of the senate will be a big issue. and it's about politics because president trump has been popular in montana. you mix into that the president's failed nomination for veterans affairs secretary
by choosing dr. ronny jackson but didn't have the type of experience typically seen for one seen to be running one of the biggest bureaucracies. the president tweeting saying allegations mailed by senator jon tester against admiral dr. ron jackson are proving false. he goes on to say the secret service is unable to confirm but deny any of the phony charges which have defvastated the wonderful jackson family. here's where he says tester should resign. it is notable to ask the sitting senator to resign. that's very trump-like going for the hail mary pass. but also trying to urge montana voters to get on his side. not addressing the issue that dr. jackson, rear admiral jackson, was viewed in both parties as maybe not having the right experience for this
position even though he was well respected. senate tester has had veterans coming on in support of him and he's addressing these concerns saying it wasn't political but he wants someone better suited to run that agency. test her released a number of issues that dealt with overprescribing making claims about whether jackson had been in a scuffle drinking alcohol. the white house put out reports, secret service and so forth that addressed those in detail and did not support the allegations. so it has put ronny jackson through a difficultic situation. and the president wears some responsibility for that. for making those allegations public before the confirmation process had even gotten started. >> kelly, thank you very much. joining me right now, white house correspondent for pbs and
betsy woodruff, ladies, good to see you both. is there more to the president's skrich criticism of tester than just the handling of jackson? >> i think the president wants to blame someone else for the mess that was the ill fated reaction to ronny jackson being va secretary. the way it was rolled out was completely bungled. some white house officials were caught off guard by the nature of the announcement. additionally, a number of republicans have put it on the hill squarely in defeat. john cornyn the second most powerful republican senator on capitol hill told my publication yesterday that he thought this was the white house's responsibility that the jackson scenario turned out to be such a mess for everyone involved. of course, it's useful politically for the president to be able to blame jon tester
since he is such a vulnerable senator from the red state but at the end of the day there's a lot to share. >> do you think the president's in campaign mode, is this all about november given that we're six months away from election day midterms? >> i would say the president at the point of inauguration was already in campaign mode. he feels most comfortable around large crowds people cheering his name without having to talk the details of policy. can scream the wall without talking about the cost of the wall. but when it comes to the way dr. jackson was ruled out, i talked to several white house officials who said they were frustrated with the way dr. jackson spoke. especially on that meeting with emmanuel macron. the president saying if i were ronny jackson i'd probably be pulling out of this when washington is so mean and when in reality, white house aides were handing out physically
copies of reports that barack obama had said phrasing dr. jackson. so the president wasn't on message saying if i were dr. jackson i'd step out of it. instead, he should have said this someone who had worked for three presidents. someone who is facing unsubstantiate allegations while senator tester did spread and share these allegations. none of them were -- it wasn't like there were 20 people on tv saying this is what he did to me. so, i think there was a problem there in that these things are spread so quickly and that dr. jackson didn't really have a chance to respond in the right way. >> yeah. i want to get to the president's -- i guess we'll call it free wheeling interview on "fox & friends" this week. here's what he said. >> i'm fighting a battle against a horrible group of deep-seated people, drain the swamp, that are coming up with all sorts of
phony charges against me. and they're not bringing up real charges against the other side. so, we have a phony deal going on. and it's a cloud over my head. and i've been able to really escape that cloud, because the message now, everyone knows it's a fix, okay? it's a with hunch hunt, and thew that. >> of course, the president talking about the mueller investigation, everything to do with russia. betsy, was the president supposed to go on air and air grievances on this matter or is this a complete surprise to the white house? is there a back story to this? >> i can't speak to the back story, but the complaints that the president aired and she's been frustrated with how the allegations that he and his cohort are facing regarding possible coordination between the trump world and russia. the irony of this, of course, is that it's president trump's
justice department. jeff sessions one of the most stalwart of defenders on the campaign trail. rod rosenstein who decided to let the rein of the office move forward. he got that job, niece that position because of donald trump. so, there's an extreme amount of tension for the president, just related to the fact that he has built this justice department that essentially he believes, whether it's there or not, he believes has turned on him and has fueled this quote/unquote witch hunt. so when the president said that on "fox & friends" very much in character whey he says behind the scenes and tells confidants. >> but this kind of interview, kellyanne conway said the president wants to do more of this. the conventionalism is what? >> well, the conventionalism is what you hinted to, it's what donald trump does with media
time and got a lot of supporters. he would go on cable news and go off and out of and off and talk about all sorts of things. you have the president not being controlled by his chief of staff. john kelly from what my resources is telling me is someone who doesn't really have the president's ear right now. you have a communications director who has not been hired. hope hicks left a few weeks ago and no one has replaced her. so the president is going with his instincts. his instincts are to call into a network that is favorable to him and make his case to people directly watching which are his base. he wants them to be excited about his presidency. but he also feels that the russia cloud is really hanging over his white house and hacking over his presidency, so to get out of those frustrations because he doesn't want to fire -- my sources say he doesn't want to fire the special counsel for rod rosenstein because it's such a crazy mess.
and i think republicans on the hill have been signaling the president this is the best way to do it. kellyanne conway saying if he wants to do it, we're going to let him do it. it's problematic especially for someone like michael cohen because as we know federal prosecutors turned around and used that within moments. >> i want to play for you the prayer it's what father conroy thinks got him fired by house speaker ryan. take a listen to this. >> as legislation on taxes continues to be debated this week and next, may all members be mindful that the institutions and structures of our great nation guarantee the opportunities that have allowed such to achieve great success while others continue to struggle. may their efforts these days guarantee that there are no winners and losers under new tax
laws, but benefits balanced and shared by all americans. >> my director is putting up the response there from speaker ryan and what happened there in terms of the hill reporting. but to you, betsy, is this about religion? or is it about politics? there is a suggestion out there that the conservative democrats, rather, the conservative republican, the southerners in the party, didn't really like the fact that this was a catholic jesuit. the most liberal part of the catholic church wasn't meeting their pastoral needs. is it politics, religion, what is it? >> in the view of many dozens members of congress this is sort of intersection between politics and religion. what's interesting, paul ryan is also a conservative catholic but he's from a different wing of the church that father conroy.
je jesuit tend to have more liberal thinking. pope francis is a jesuit. and you could imagine the pope saying the prayer similar. and the focus how equitiably we can distribute the benefits. something that's important to the jesuits. and something that makes them uncomfortable. the idea that the government should play a role in making sure that everyone benefits from the wealth that an individual nation has. now, was this mostly about pastoral care or politics? at the end of the day, only paul ryan can know for sure why he decided to fire father conroy. but there's certainly plenty of fodder for folks who believe this was much more a question about faith than it was a question about pastoral treatment. >> and the conversation will go on, i'm sure, for quite some time for many. betsy and aneesh, i wish our
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were made about him from senator tester from a great state, i don't think that state is going to put up with it. >> president trump with a warning for the red state democrats up for election in november. with a tweet outright calling for senator tester to resign. let's bring in ted lu, a welcome member on our broadcast. i know you've gone as far as to say dr. jackson should not even be in the white house or in charge of the medical unit. how did it get political with the warnings against senator jon tester? >> thank you for that question. as a veteran myself, i find it deeply demoralizing that donald trump nominated someone to run the second largest agency in our u.s. government. on top of that, 20 service members current and former who
allege misconduct by dr. jackson. you can choose to tell they're telling the truth or think that dr. jackson is telling the truth. there's one way to figure it out, let's have the navy call for an investigation. i hope that happens. >> do you think that will happen, even though he's withdrawn his nomination? >> yes, these are serious allegations. and if true, he should not be the present physician. he engaged in conduct that wore disqualify any doctor, let alone the dock for the president of the united states. >> and there's mixed beliefs in whether the president has had a role in developments in north korea leading to this meeting yesterday. are you in any way willing to forgive the president for what we see happening? >> sure. it's highly possible. it's hard to tell what goes on in the mind of the north korean leader. in the speeches he did talk about the economy of north
korea. and i supported and voted for the strongest sanctions ever on north korea. and the trump administration did a very good job of making sure we had sanctions on north korea and i think that has something to do with what we're seeing right now. >> what do you think needs to happen right now, in the next few weeks that this heads in and stays in the right direction? >> i've always advocated for diplomacy over war. i'm glad to see we have the leaders of north and south korea engage in diplomacy. i hope it continues. it's just a long step in a long process. we don't know what they mean when they say denuclearization. we don't know what they want in the u.s. this is hopeful and we'll see what happens in the coming months. >> it has been suggested that the stakes for the meeting coming forth with the president and kim jong-un that the expectation should not be who high. how do you gauge your expectations, what you think
should happen for these two men? >> i don't want the president to give away the store to north koreans. i would want to see denuclearization. i think it's important to see what both countries mean when they talk about denuclearization. it seems that the united states wants north korea to give up all of its nuclear weapons. i'm not sure that's what north korea is thinking when they say denuclearization. lot will come from the summit. >> i think you just hit the nail on the head to what could be a hangup. let's go now to the legal battle involving michael cohen. i want to play for you what house and ranking member adam schiff said in the president's call to fox & friends. and the stormy daniels matter. >> i have no doubt that the president was given one marching order for his interview this morning and that was, you need to say michael cohen was your lawyer on stormy daniels. you need that, because you
contradicted that. michael cohen contradicted that by saying neither one of you discussed it. we need you to do this. so, he did that. >> what do you make of that? >> the preseident's story keeps changing. and michael cohen's story keeps changing. and if they were true, you wouldn't voluntary these conflicting stories. i think for the president to say michael cohen represented him with stormy danielses i think that makes it even worse. that was a massive campaign finance violation and that makes this fodder even more to be true. >> and you said he has to get out there and validate michael cohen. obviously there's some speculation that michael cohen could flip when he gives any sort of testimony. do you think this is a play
helping him to do that, saying, looks i support you? >> i don't think because michael cohen knows the immense legal pressure he's under. this $130,000. it's pretty clear he didn't tell the bank regulators the truth about where the money was coming from, what he was going to use it for. those would be crimes if those were documents saying he was going to do something different with it from his home equity loan. i'm not sure whatever the president says is going to have any effect on him. that's really what the prosecutors do in terms of an indictment. >> michael avenatti as you know said he's considering filing a libel suit. >> i think it may happen in an only justice case relating to a defamation claim we may be bringing against the president relating to the tweet where he called my client a con, or suggested that he lied to the
american people. so we may very well be bringing that claim here shortly. >> what do you think the likelihood of that happening? >> well, certainly, stormy daniels' attorney is very good at what he does. it is somewhat hard to get the president into a deposition. i don't know if judges would actually order that but he's certainly free to try. i think the broader issue here is, were there laws violated in terms of this $130,000 payment to silence stormy daniels. which is also a pattern, if you look at the payment that the "national enquirer" did to former play mate karin mcdougal. i think we're seeing a pattern of trump and his campaign during a presidential campaign. those are violations of the law. >> l.a. democratic congressman. good to see you. >> thank you. trump's personal lawyer says he will invoke the fifth amendment but why one attorney
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to get illegal guns off the streets and keep kids out of gangs, and on the right path. that's antonio villaraigosa. a governor for all of california. new developments today in the stormy daniels saga after a judge put a hold on her lawsuit against trump's personal attorney. a federal judge has said the porn star's lawsuit against
michael cohen will have to be delayed by 90 days because, quote, it appeared that cohen will be indicted. joining me now jill banks. and the new york seller author chris whipple. the judge is trying to get going two separate cases against cohen. the criminal investigation and the lawsuit by stormy daniels. so how do they affect each other? >> they may not. but if the case that he's indicted for assuming he is indicted has something to do with the $130,000 payment then anything he says in the civil case might incriminate him in that criminal case. there's no self-right of incriminalation in a civil case except as it relates to the civil case. in a simple case, if you take
the fifth amendment, it can be used against you. but in a criminal case they can exercise no guilt by exercising the privilege. whereas in a civil case they can, assuming anything he would have said would have hurt his case and that's a bad thing for the party. >> and chris, cohen says he intends to invoke his fifth amendment rights. doesn't that make him look guilty by repeating the fifth as we've said all over the broadcast. if you have nothing to plead the fifth about, why bother pleading the fifth? >> i defer to jill on the fine points but certainly in the court of public opinion it may look that way. . i have to say there's a much more fundamental problem here that shouldn't be normalized or forgotten when you look at what happened this week. and that is, we're dealing with a president who is temperamentally unfit for
office. and the phone call to "fox & friends" the unhinged tirade, anytime he opens his mouth he gives ammunition to robert mueller and to avenatti. it's nixonian, except that nixon never talked this way in public. and i think that, you know it makes trump a threat not only to all of us, but it makes him his own worst enemy when it comes to his legal situation. >> you know, jill, you have used the words political suicide when you reference this case what do you mean by that? to whom is it directed, is it the president? >> it's directed at the president because michael cohen taking the fifth amendment and chris is right, there are two courts here there's the court of law and there's the court of public opinion. and whatever he does will reflect on the president as well. but the suggestion that the president could avoid testifying by taking the fifth, i said, was political suicide for any other president. in the case of this president,
nothing seems to stick. and his supporters to not care. but taking the fifth really would be, i think, a very serious thing. and i think that possibly congress might react to that as putting a different light on it. you never know what's going to turn things. chris mentioned nixon and nixonian. and there were things in watergate that really turned things around. i think when the 18-minute gap came up, all of a sudden, people saw things differently. and saw that nixon was hiding something. how did thaterased? so something like pleading the fifth for the president still could do very serious damage in the court of public opinion. >> you know, jill, avenatti said that stormy daniels could file a libel suit after the president tweeted a sketch about a nonexist tents man. a total conjob playing the fake
media for fools but they know it. so does she have a case? >> she does potentially have a case. he would have to be shown to have meant it in a malicious way. although she's now made herself a public figure, so it's an easier standard for him to get away with if it's a public figure than if it's just a private citizen. but, yes, there are other cases, zervos has filed a claim based on fake statements about her. and seems to be proceeding with that. so, i think, yes, that could be another case. >> okay. all right, chris, i've got to get to you about chief of staff john kelly. we have the report in "vanity fair" saying that white house officials and trump confidants are currently discussing the possibility of moving kelly to head the department of veterans affairs. if the president does not think kelly is valuable enough to keep as chief of staff, why not just let him go entirely?
>> well, that would be a huge mistake on trump's part. i mean, he thinks somehow that being unplugged and not having a grown-up in the room or a chief of staff would somehow free him to govern whatever way he wants to. every president has found out the hard way that you cannot govern effectively without a white house chief. my own lunch is that kelly is not going anytime, soon. first, number one, would would want the job? number two, i believe he's a stubborn marine, he believes in honor and country. the tough part for donald trump is the honor part. everyone in the orbit of this president gets sucked in or tarnished or destroyed. >> so, you don't have a who. but do you have the prospect as the president has alluded to, he would not replace john kelly. and were that to be the case, what kind of chaos would that send the white house into?
>> it's hard to imagine a more chaotic white house. it could happen. jimmy carter tried to govern without a white house chief of staff for the last 2 1/2 years. he realized his mistake and finally appointed one. er? gerry ford tried and found a guy named don rumsfeld to come in and whip his white house into shape. almost caught jimmy carter in the election. history shows you cannot govern effectively without a white house chief of staff but it's possible that this president can't govern with it either. >> chris whipping and jill wine-banks, thank you so much. kanye west and another song defending trump. is it genuine or just another way to rake in publicity? that's next.
what we saw was donald trump tried to take advantage of a particular moment in popular culture to misrepresent his policies. look, unemployment's at 6.8, 6.9% in african-american communities. we need to understand that's low and it's the result of economic policies that have in fact come outside of obama administration. white unemployment is 3.6%. and we're still twice that. and inequality still in the labor market. >> and reacting to the kanye west and president trump
friendship. and the president trump said the unemployment numbers of african-americans is best in the country in the united states. joining us now the host , yes, o you both. let's start with your take, rev, your take between the mutual admiration between kanye west and the president? >> i mean, i think kanye west is a talented artist. james brown, the god father of soul was like a father to me. he supported nixon. we fought on it all the time. i think for us to fall out of kanye over trump would take a lot more than that. i think clearly with disagree with it. we think trump's record is
despicable when it comes to our community. kanye has the right to express just like mr. brown did. >> let's go to you, do you also agree with him when he said he cannot support the president because he would never support anyone who has made a career out of hatred, racism and discrimination? >> well, you know, again, i do think chance the rapper before said that they don't have to be democrats because it's very true. again, reverend al who has been a great voice, mentor of mine, even though i disagree with him politically, has stated before, we are on two different sides, but we're on the same team. and for me, i understand that blacks don't have to be democrats. and i think it is until we as black americans have democrats and republicans fighting for our voter's bloc, they ever we'll never really be in true demand. democrats have treated us
erroneo erroneously, we're still up at the back of the bus so to speak because of the policy of the republican party. and republicans, again, they're not really going after us like they should. because again, most are afraid to step up like with this kanye controversy. it shouldn't be a kanye controversy because he supports president donald trump. we should be applauding he's a free thinking black man who believers president trump has policies. whether you like him personally or not, his policy is the best for black workers in this country. >> let me jump in and pastor burns and i do talk and are friendly. but i would say that even though i don't fall out with kanye or pastor burns, they should name the policies. if you claim it put blacks in the back of the bus, then they ought to name the policies of donald trump what has helped black america. we're still doubly unemployed.
this president has not even one time talked about any police case or any criminal justice matter. we had an unarmed black man just disarm an ar-15 person or at least tackle them in nashville. this president didn't even mention that. so, show me in any instance where the president has reached out to do anything with black america. >> you know, pastor, why do you think the president didn't mention that hero, didn't acknowledge that hero in the waffle house shooting just outside of nashville? >> well, you know, i think it's important, reverend al, that we talk about the policies that are impacting the black community. i'd like to name one politic any president with the 13th amendment and 14th amendment that, one, gave us the right to be human and then the right to vote in america. >> i can name you several, past
toupas pastor burns. >> of the fact of the matter -- please let me finish. let me finish. >> i want you to answer my question. >> we'll cover that but what's important for the viewers to understand. it is by the sweat of my brow that i am where i am. a man who was once on welfare. writing a book right now called "from welfare to the white house." i was on food stamps. i've been arrested. i know what it is like to feel belittled because of the color of your skin. i also know it was the sweat of my own brow. nobody ever gave you anything, reverend al, yet you're the host of one of the most successful shows in america. we've got this notion that some president has to create this policy because of the color of my skin for me to be successful. >> can i respond? can i respond? first of all, you and i made it by the sweat of our brow because we were allowed to.
our parents and grandparents were not able to do that. we were able to do it because under lyndon johnson we got a voting rights act. you go all the way to president obama -- >> we made -- >> wait a minute, you ask not to be interrupted. i ask for the same respect. we got affordable care. we got a criminal justice initiative where president obama commuted the sentence -- you talk about you've been to jail, he commuted the sense of nonviolent drug offenders more than the last 11 presidents put together. he sent the justice department of eric holder into court to maintain our voting rights. this president and jeff sessions said we will not protect the voting rights. we're closing down the affordable care act if we can. and we are not dealing with police matters, specifically, you have mass incarceration right now, because of the
policies of others. i can name you from johnson all the way through on the policies that democrats have put through. again, name me one, i saw you duck alex's question of why he didn't tweet about the hero in nashville and i would duck if i was you, too. but name me one thing that the policies are that he proposes that will help black america. just one. >> reverend al, the fact of the matter, you're still here talking about this specific policy that's going to make me as a black man breathe different air than a white person in america. no. >> no. i will tell you the way you can breathe. i will tell you where. >> reverend al, listen -- >> it's the time, it was what we needed. >> today, black people are strong in america. i'm a black man who was on welfare but now i'm running for united states congress in the state of south carolina. the sate that succeeded in the u.n.
>> you're strong because you have that -- because of what our forefathers struggled. because of our voting rights. and it's because of our forefathers. >> it's that you and i on international television. and i have white people in my studio right now working for me. >> the people want -- >> calm down, reverend. >> calm down, calm down. >> listen, tell the whites in your studio, don't tell me me, tell them about the policy mrs. trump has. >> all right, gentlemen -- >> we got to talk voting. our interests rely on that. >> absolutely. and give me one interest mr. trump has, except discussing what happened today. >> reverend, you know i love you. >> i love you, too. >> but the fact of the matter --
>> i don't need donald trump doing specifically for me as a black man. >> oh. >> how about this, pastor, pastor, let me ask you this one, i'm going to rephrase the question that i asked you, instead of asking to you get inside the mind of donald trump, i'm going to ask you, do you wish that he would have taken the opportunity to herald the actions of the hero in that waffle hughes. >> absolutely. absolutely. without point. >> and had he done that, what would you have hoped to come from that? >> well, again, what i think is this, there are injustices in this nation, whether it comes from the black community or whether it comes from the white communicates or the hispanic community. or asian, the jewish, or muslim communities. the president of the united states, his job is not to go after every injustice that takes place. we're no special than any other race. you cut me, i bleed red. that's the problem. i'm a human. it is my character that makes me -- it's not because i'm
black. >> pastor -- >> pastor -- >> we're not the victims in america. we're victors. >> right. >> pastor, we applaud where you are, sir. about 15 seconds. >> we're not talk about injustice. we're talking about a hero. those are talking points and you got the wrong card. she was talking about a hero. >> wait a minute. >> i got to let the reverend have the last word. >> we were talk about why he didn't tweet about a hero. we weren't talking about the victim. i know that's the way they rehearsed you. >> i'm not controlled by the republican party or donald trump. >> i will agree with you on that, the reason that rosa parks could breathe the same air in the front of the bus rather than the back is because of legislation. it's not that we all breathed the same air. it's we're under the same air. in the same air, we're allowed to breathe. >> gentlemen, i'm going to have to -- >> gentlemen, that's going to
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white house. how a week of triumph for trump was convulsed by chaos and contradiction. let's bring in a former president of young democrats of america and a former republican strategist. how do you gauge these narratives for the president? >> you mean for his call in on fox and friends and everything he's been saying and the tweets? >> yeah, the headline. i mean, it was a winning week for the president in some ways and yet it went off the rails. it was chaos. >> well, and this is a part of the president that frustrates a lot of republicans while he's got great policies and, you know, with everything he's doing with north korea, the way he's handling that. it's going great. we have a lot of bipartisan support on what's going on. and then this happens. it's like you can't put the genie back in the bottle. i wish the president would not comment on this michael cohen
investigation. we know he was or is his attorney. i'm sure they had a great relationship. but, you know, i wish that in this investigation his words may end up biting him and that's the only thing i worry about. like i said, you know, the republicans are very happy with his progress. and it's things like this that i just kind of wish he would hold his tongue. >> how do you assess the president's week? >> it's not been any better week he's had in the past. hi he was rambling like the grandpa who is not feeling everybody. his va nominee had to withdraw. just in general any of the stuff and cohen. they want to give him credit for north korea and south korea, but i think that's more of kim jong-un's machinations than anything else. so it's just quite honestly not
a great week for him period. and hasn't been for him in a while politically. >> look, i want to look at also the president's tweets about the report of the russian meddling. house committee rules there was no collusion. it's a big hoax from the democrats. there should never have been a special counsel appointed. is that wishful thinking? we have the muller investigation ongoing with no apparent end in sight. how do you assess this, noel? >> actually, you know, i've been critical on the president when i think he's done wrong. on this, look, i think he's frustrated and rightfully so, alex. there's been how many times do people have to say there's no collusion before there's no collusion? yes, there's right there is an ongoing investigation. from the looks of it it seems to be going this way and if trump is here, it seems like the direction is going this way.
it doesn't seem like it's pointing to donald trump himself. it may be going around, but it's not donald trump himself. and so when he says there's no collusion, i think he's just frustrated. i think he's tired. i think he wishes the investigation would be over. i think that that's why you saw donald trump saying i'm fine to sit down, you know, with robert muller because i think he's tired of it and he doesn't have anything to hide. >> do you think he's trying to diminish the special counsel's report and efforts by saying this kind of thing? >> yeah. i mean, absolutely. to her point i think it's ridiculous that he's frustrated about an investigation that started because he fired the fbi director. that created additional suspicion which created a special counsel. his own doj had to do all of those things. he's trying to muddy the waters. it's been a long-standing fact that the house gop-led intelligence committee is his wing man when it comes to saying he's done nothing wrong.
if the report contradicts that he'll point to this. it's a joke because the house gop is never going to say he's done anything wrong. >> all right. i had kind of a big conversation that preceded you, i'm sure you listened to. blame the boys. i'm see you ladies again. at the top of the hour on the hot seat, the epa administrator goes before congress. what his future looks like after coming under fire for excessive spending. nothing says spring like fresh flowers, so let's promote our spring travel deal on choicehotels.com like this.
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