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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  June 6, 2020 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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i'm katy tur. it's 7:00 p.m. west and 10:00 p.m. here in the east on what has marked a 12th day of protests across the united states, following the death of george floyd while he was in
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police custody. as we speak, giant crowds are still gathering in america aesz big cities. even, as curfews loom in some of those places. but the protests have not been limited to our major urban centers. the demonstrations have reached smaller cities, in rural america, like boise and sioux falls. los angeles drew thousands of diverse and peaceful protestors at marches that our reporters on the ground described as joyful, at times. and, earlier today, in north carolina, where george floyd was born, a third memorial service was held to honor his life. and among the mourners were his sister and his brother, who both spoke about their loss. >> i'm still devastated and very much overwhelmed by this. that i'll never hear his voice, i'll never hear his laughter. i'll never have his hugs or be able to tell him i love him again and likewise him tell me the same. >> we have reporters spread out across the country covering
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today's events. let's begin in los angeles, where protests began at 8:00 a.m. this morning. jacob, i see you are still marching down there. what's it like? >> katy, you're from here. i'm from here. we both grew up in los angeles. this is not something you see every day. it's not something you see every ten years in los angeles. let me just swing around for a second. look at this. as far as the eye can see, in a city that's not known for its civic participation, there are people everywhere in downtown los angeles. this started on the steps of city hall where eric garcetti, announced earlier in the week, he is going to take -- it's not the defunding many had wanted to see but it is a significant chunk. i did see this woman right here. hi. can i say hi to you on msnbc? we're live right now. i saw your sign and it says nurses for black lives matter. are you a nurse?
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>> yes, my name is terry thompson. i work at lac medical center and i'm out here for justice. >> in a way, as a nurse, you have been on the front line of two big justice fights. tonight, we are out here marching for george floyd but you have seen the covid crisis firsthand. >> absolutely. we have two crises. covid-19, which is a crisis. you see my shirt on, give me more than six feet. i am trying to do my best. >> talk to me about that. with all of these people, your life on the line, to be out here and march for justice. march for black lives. do you feel like it's making a difference? >> yes, i do. i feel like i am putting my life on the line, every day, whether it's for my son who is 28 years old who's in atlanta. or for patients i see in the hospital in the emergency room. it doesn't matter. i'm out here for justice. >> and how long is it going to take? i mean, is this the first day that you've marched?
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is this the second day? how many times have you been out here? >> this is my second day but i plan on being out here until justice is served. >> and how long is that going to take? >> you know, i'm out here for the long haul. i'm out here for the long haul. >> so nice to meet you. bless you. you be safe. okay? >> thank you. you too. >> katy, you heard it firsthand. there are multiple fights being fought on the streets of los angeles. breonna taylor is the name we're hearing right now. we've heard the name george floyd. but if you look at these signs, this is also a fight, as reverend al sharpton said, for economic justice, not just for brutality and policing. but our schools, you know, every day with jobs, everybody out here is struggling. everybody out here has something to say, and everybody out here wants to see their lives change. there is a long way to go. everybody knows. >> you should see her name. do you know what her name is? >> say again. >> her name is breonna taylor. >> can you say her name?
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>> breonna taylor. thank you, sir. you take care. katy, everybody out here has got something to say. you just heard it from that man, too. >> jacob, thank you very much and you are right to say this goes deeper than what happened to george floyd. this is about uprooting the systems, and overcoming acts of oppression. thank you so much from the streets of los angeles. our hometown. now, let's go to washington where thousands of americans gathered in the streets surrounding the white house, as close as they could get at least. once again. nbc's garrett haake is there with the latest. so, garrett, you have seen the full gambit of what life has been like down there in the last week and a half. the fences have pushed everybody back. what's the reaction from the crowd? and do you see signs of this slowing down? >> well, i don't know about
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slowing down, katy, but the character of it's certainly changing. we are light years. >> where we were a week ago saturday, when tensions were high here. people were incredibly angry at the start of this. they were frustrated and felt like their government wasn't listening. and while we are so far from getting the kind of justice that the folks who have been packing this plaza all week long have demanded, there does seem to be a sense of progress. there does seem to be a sense of hope. we have had marches all over washington, d.c. today, all of them converging on this spot, in this hour, to be part of something that's sort of celebratory in feeling. and as i talked to folks today, i found out overwhelmingly, maybe they were working all week, it was their first chance to join the protest. and they felt almost an obligation to be part of this movement. to stand shoulder to shoulder with their neighbors. listen to what i heard earlier today. >> so why did you decide to come in today? >> oh, my god. i -- i decided to many in today because i wanted to get
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uncomfortable and get involved in what's needed to bring about change. >> you were the one who wanted to get your whole family out here today. why was this important to you? >> well, this has been going on for too long. and, like, we finally need to do something because we can't just sit back and, like, wait for a change of heart in the lawmakers. >> katy, i think that idea of people choosing to come out here and get uncomfortable, challenge their privileges, challenge their assumptions. get out here and challenge themselves to figure out how they can continue this fight in some constructive way has been perhaps the driving element of these protests all week long. >> garrett, i want to ask you about the specifics that you have heard. what we're looking at, on the left-hand side of the screen, is 16th street there in washington, d.c., where black lives matter has been painted down onto the street in yellow writing. now, it says equals defund the police. something i'm hearing in new
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york. jacob is hearing it in los angeles. and they have already taken some money from the lapd there. when people talk about being in the fight for justice, what -- what sort of things are they tell you? >> some of these things are focusing on different police techniques, trying to ban things that have opinibeen known to ca violence. some to try to make sure that money that could be going to school districts, money that could be going to communities, is going to that instead of police. >> it's okay. we'll come back to you. >> this is what happens at a protest at 10:00 at night. >> don't worry. we'll come back to you. let's now go to louisville, where a vigil was held to honor breonna taylor, the young woman who was shot and killed by police officers during a no-knock raid. protestors released balloons into the air, to celebrate her life today. a day after what would have been her 27th birthday. joining me now from louisville is nbc's cal perry.
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cal. >> katy, the protests were violent earlier in the week, like you heard from garrett. like you heard from jacob. a very different scene. i think it's because the national guard and police are gone. they were here the first five days. now, they're gone. you can see the portion of breonna taylor on the side of that building. it's going up at night. and this is when the time of night when the protest changes. when it becomes a vehicular protest. where folks drive around the city, and basically protest. and the police, at some points, sort of escort them around the cities. at other points, they are just completely hands off. now, when it come to the breonna taylor case itself, we heard from the fbi this week that they will run a full investigation. they have complete hi taken over that investigation. the three officers who were involve understand that shooting have been placed on administrative leave. when you talk to protestors here, they want them fired. so part of this investigation is beyond just police conduct. it's how did the police get to her front door? the warrant was for somebody who
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was already in police custody. there were no drugs found in her apartment. they said they were looking for somebody who shipped mail to her apartment. the mail wasn't there. one thing that has made people here very happy. the police chief was fired a few day ago. he was set to retire but he was fired. that seems to have taken the temperature way down in this city, katy. >> so a lot of the reaction has started to move in terms of the breonna's law, trying to ban no-knock raids like the one that killed her. as you said, the police chief was fired. in terms of long-term systemic changes, systematic changes, what are you hearing from the crowds there? >> that they want the community to be more involved in the policing. that they want the community to have a say in how policing is done on the western part of the city versus the eastern part of the city. that they want body cameras to be on, all the time. after the breonna taylor incident, the mayor said that
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body cameras were going to be a requirement. well, last sunday night into monday morning, david mcatee, well-known in the community, is shot and killed by two members of the lmpd as well as two members of the national guard. we don't know what happened there and part of the problem was the two officers from the lmpd, their body cameras were off, katy. that's one thing people here say has to happen immediately. >> nbc's cal perry down in louisville, kentucky. thank you very much for joining us today. and you are looking right now at the crowd much protestors in washington, d.c. and this is an overhead shot. and after the break, we are going to head over to california to talk to the congresswoman there, maxine waters, who has seen this before. stay with us.
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we want the justice department to prosecute. we want them to move with all due haste. perhaps, that will help stem the
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tide of violence. in addition to that, we really do need to look at, further, how we can have laws in this countr these who failed to prosecute officers who violate human beings. >> that was congresswoman maxine waters, back in 1992, calling on the justice department to crack down on police brutality. those comments were made a day after the four officers who brutally beat up rodney king were acquitted. joining me now is democratic congresswoman maxine waters of california. she is the chair of the financial services committee. congresswoman, thank you, very much, for joining us. so i think we all know what happened after those officers were acquitted. they were riots on the streets of los angeles, that got -- that got very, very violent. and very destructive. you were calling for systemic change, back then.
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do you think that we've made any progress? or made enough progress since then? >> well, we really have not. this business of police officers being able to kill unarmed citizens. and be able to target what appears to be african-american men, in particular, and women. and, still, it is considered justifiable homicide. they don't get charged with a murder. they don't get charged with any particular crime. and, even, they stay on the police departments or they get transferred to another jurisdiction. so we've not made a lot of progress. but the criminal justice system is not designed to charge police officers with crime. the criminal justice system is designed to protect them. and they have gone beyond
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protecting officers who make a simple mistake, into protecting officers, no matter what they do. and so, now, we have come to a point in time where the world have been watching. and they've seen what happened in minneapolis with george floyd being killed, before their very eyes. with the knee of a police officer on his neck. and that's the old choke hold kind of thing. and don't forget, when darryl gates was the president -- i'm sorry, was the chief of police -- >> the police chief. >> -- here in los angeles -- >> lapd police chief. yep. >> that's right. i'm sorry. here, in los angeles, he popularized that choke hold. and so, as a matter of fact, i have some information here. between 1975 and 1982, the los angeles police department, led by lapd darryl gates, chief darryl gates, killed 16 people using the choke hold. 12 of whom were black. and so here we are, talking
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about the choke hold. a different iteration of it with the knee. and so, no, we've not made a lot of progress. and now with the young people on the street, i think change is it in the air. >> let me ask you this because the choke hold is banned by a number of police departments. it's banned by the nypd but it still is what led to eric garner's death a few years ago. what do you think about -- do we need -- or does this country need to criminalize the use of a choke hold in order for police departments, those bans, to be effective? those bans to have teeth behind them. >> well, absolutely. we have banned it, here, in los angeles, and as you said, in a number of cities, et cetera. but, when they use it, they don't get any real criminal penalties for doing it. so, yes, the police officers must know that if they use a choke hold or any iteration of
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that, that they can be criminally charged for that. >> let me ask you this. what we saw in 1992 with rodney king was -- was a man being brutally beaten by -- by four police officers, on tape. it was one of the instances, that just happened to be caught on tape, well before anyone had a cell phone camera. we fast forward more than 20 years later, and we see on tape, because everyone has phone cameras now. a man dying underneath knee of a minneapolis police officer. we've seen, even in between that time, other black men dying, on camera, at the hands of cops. do you think this moment is different? >> well, i think so. i sense that we have enough people now, particularly young people, who are fed up with these stories. and they have been able to see the graphic depiction of what happened in minneapolis.
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but i want to tell you something that's very interesting. in the middle of the protests, in compton, just three nights ago, there were three or four police officer who brutally beat a man, and they kneed him. and they punched him. and so, this happened while protests were going on in another part of the sea. city. so we have got to make believers out of them and the way we make believers out of them is some police have got to be jailed. they've got to be sentenced for the brutality they continue to perpetrate on innocent, unarmed people. >> congresswoman maxine waters, who unfortunately has seen this before and spoken out about it. congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us tonight. we appreciate your time. >> well, you're certainly welcome and we are going to keep working, until we get change. and i think change is in the air. thank you. >> thank you. and when we come back, how can
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the deafening calls for change are already seeing some signs of success, giving urgency to the -- to the demand that the country finally tear down its monuments to racism. this week, virginia governor ralph northam announced the statue of confederate general robert e. lee will be taken down. and the city of fredericksburg, virginia, removed a 176-year-old slave auction block from a prominent downtown street corner yesterday. back in 2018, my colleague trymaine lee spoke with residents there about that symbol of racial oppression. >> so what was it like growing up with that auction block right there on the corner? >> it was like an embarrassment.
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i don't need to see that block to know what the past was. it made you mad because i can say my great grandma, my great grandpa. you bring them in on a boat, and then you sell them. how do you moralize something like that? >> it is totally unfair and unreal that people can actually sit there, and say that, oh, well, we're just saving history. no, what you're doing is you're spitting in our faces. that's what you're doing. >> joining me now is trymaine lee, msnbc correspondent and host of the "into america" p podcast. trymaine, it's always good to see you. you did this documentary a few years ago, talking about these monuments that are still there. there are still many others across the country. there was this momentum to tear them down. it sparked widespread -- or it sparked a deadly protest in charlottesville, virginia. do you think this moment is a moment where those literal
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monuments to our racist history, might get removed? >> katy, thank you so much for having me. thinking back just a few years ago, when we had charlottesville and we had the violence that ended up actually in a death. and being in those spaces, where communities had to walk in the shadows of these statues. walk past these monuments. that monument in fredericksburg, that slave auction block, is in the middle of a busy corridor and black folks told me they would avoid that intersection and part of town just to avoid it. but finally, we're at this point because of george floyd's death and how people have galvanized all across the country. they don't want to wear those badges of racism. and those badges of america's racist history any longer. and there are few badges more prominent than in these southern cities, especially of these confederate racists. these white supremacists. these slavers. and i think just now is the point where folks are wanting to
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disassociate themselves from some of that history but let's not get anything twisted at all. these are the physical edifice of that racism. but, also, these monuments live in the hearts of folks. in that clip you just showed, we were in a barbershop in fredericksburg in the black community. but i also went fwhinto the mor rural areas and met with people who reenact these wars, the civil war, every year or so. and they say that they are descending from great men who defended this great country. even in the name of defending slavery, they still find a way to valorize those people. and so we might be able to find some momentum to take down these statues. this -- the marble and the granite and the stone and concrete. but the hardest part will be to chip away at the monuments that are inside so many folks. there is a reason why racism has lasted so long in this country. it's bemde it's embedded. it's etched.
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in the fabric of who we are as a nation in this country. to your point, we're just hitting this tipping point where, now, people have cover. even if there were local politicians who wanted to see these monuments come down. now, they have cover, just by the sheer mass of protests. i mean, cross cultural, cross racial, across the country. now, there is this bubbling and everyone is interrogating and grappling with race, in a very particular, specific way that i don't think we've ever seen. >> what do you think it is about our country, where -- where those statues would stay up for as long as they did? or where you would speak to people who were descendants of those men, who say they were proud of -- of -- of the war they fought. and the defense they put for -- for the south and for racism. what is it about our country, where that is something that is okay? >> because, quite frankly, katy, anti-blackness and racism is hardwired. from the very beginning, it always has been.
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when you think about these monuments is one thing. but when you examine advertising, just until the last, you know, about 30 years ago, there was still darky tooth paste being sold around the world. you think about the jingles and ads, if you go to any antique shop, you see what they call black americana. black people in really derogatory depictions. it was in every part of our nation. entertainment. shows-let t shows. the way we were policed with the violence. and in sports. everything. so i think it's like, it really is -- and i think now people are just starting to realize just how much of a part of that history is a part of our presence. and think about this. 1965. you think about '64 and '65. civil rights act and voting rights act. for many of us, and we have had this conversation before, in my generation, we are like the first african-americans to have a legally protected right to vote. a legally protected right to go
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into restaurants, and have -- expect equal service. right? and so, we're still new to this. slavery lasted hundreds of years. and then, another hundred years of jim crow racism and segregation. it's part of the social contract in who we are. and, still, to this day, the anti-blackness, that very fervent toxin, it exists and permeates so many of us and our families and it's passed on. fathers pass it to sons. mothers to daughters. it's in our textbooks. i was just watching a national geographic program with my daughter the other day. they're still talking at europeans discovering the new world. right? so everything we understand about how we came to be is perverted, in a sense. and, now, i think people want to recenter history and recenter the reality of where we've been, where we are, and quite frankly, where we're going. >> let me ask you a quick question on voting because jacob just mentioned to me over text
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that he forgot to mention they were signing up people to vote at the march in los angeles. voter suppression is still a thing in this country. but as you mentioned, your generation, our generation, first generation of black-americans who will have lived their entire lives, or some of the first generations, with the -- with the right to vote. so do you think that it's -- it's -- that -- that people will have the ability to overcome some of that systemic voter suppression? will there be a renewed effort to get people registered, get people to vote, in a way that maybe we haven't seen in the past? >> i think so. i think if political organizers and movement builders are smart, they would tap into this energy right now because they have the actual bodies and the actual sheer mass of people gathering. but as we've seen before, the pendulum always swings back. when you think about what we saw with the rise of president barack obama and you think about voter i.d. laws. you think about all the
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restrictions that were basically boilerplate, handed from the republican party across the country trying to cement the barriers between black and marginalized folks from the franchise. i'd expect folks to hunker down now. we already see when the demographic shifts in this country, how people are fighting tooth and nail to maintain the racial hierarchy and social hierarchy in this country. but i this we are seeing something different now. folks, in the past, may have been inclined, whether it's around policing issues or some of these disenfranchisement issues, might have been inclined to think there's something wrong with the people. you know, there's something wrong with the individuals issue maybe. it's part of the culture where communities aren't willing to participate. but, now, i think we see the systemic nature. right, the power that all these institutions from policing to education, so on, have over people's lives. i think the light bulb is going off. but, again, the forces that will always push back and always
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have, especially in these times we are living in now. and as we know, the message is being sent from the administration down. the fever-pitch nature we have been operating in for almost four years now, i expect to get worse before it gets better even with this momentum of pushing for great change. >> trymaine lee, trymaine, thank you very much for your time tonight. i really do appreciate you being here. and be sure to download trymaine's podcast "into america." it is great. and listen to it wherever you get your podcast. trymaine, thank you. and as america grapples with its difficult history, an article in "esquire" argues the new civil rights movement we're watching unfold was inevitable. rich benjamin rights a toxic brew of negligence, corporate favoritism, racist double standards, on attributing blame and republican intransigence. people had no option but to get out in the street and protest. joining me now is rich benjamin.
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he is an author, columnist, and political analyst. also, the author of "searching for whitopia. rich, it is really great to have you. >> glad to be here. thank you. thank you. >> i want to ask you about an interesting poll. monmouth university poll and we'll bring it up on the screen. 76% of americans, including 71% of white people, called racism and discrimination a big problem in the united states. 57% of americans believe the anger that led to these protests is fully justified. what do you make of that poll? >> i'm encouraged and inspired by that poll. and i think the death of george floyd, i think the results of the covid pandemic, helped push the needle in those favor because you have to remember, just two years ago, the majority
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of white americans were saying that reverse racism against whites wiz whites was a bigger problem than racism against black. and also, the mentality used to be that it was just a few bad apples. it was just a few bad cops. but now, as that poll suggests, people understand the systemic nature of this problem and it's not just this one-off thing where that poor child, trayvon martin was murdered. but this is a systemic problem of brutality. it's a systemic problem of the government not responding to issues like covid. we see militarized police officers in the streets, that have better gear than basic doctors at public hospitals. and i think people have said enough. >> tell me -- or talk to those people who don't really get it. who don't understand how it's systemic. who might say i haven't done anything wrong. or my ancestors weren't here during the time of savory.
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this is not my problem. i didn't do anything to make it worse. what do you say to them? >> i wish they would educate themselves on this country's history. the way that, for example, in the 1950s, certain americans, white-americans, were able to go to college on the gi bill, the way that the suburbs were subsidized by all of our tax money in order that the suburbs could be legally segregated. and the way that health is transferred in this country, from generation to generation. everybody understands that perhaps that he could inherit their house from their father or funds from their fathers. and, therefore, white america, in the '50s, got a $200 billion head start in terms of wealth, in terms ever health, and terms of general wellbeing and access. but the younger generation is beginning to see this. and they are beginning to see, through video camera, through iphone, the systemic abuses. and, by the way, many of the white protestors who are protesting against police, whether they be young people, whether they be old people.
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they, themselves, have become the -- the victims of too aggressive and abusive policing. so that's what i say to them is to look more honestly. and it's not the point of who you are, as a person. we individualize things too much in this country. i do this. i didn't do that. but just to look broadly about how society works. broadly about how, for example, with the recovery now with covid, the way that rich people, the way that wealthy hospitals, the way that wealthy corporations are getting an undue tax break and undue benefit in terms of recovery funds. who has connected the way that political power, the way that economic power in this country is concentrated in so few hands and i think people get that. >> i think you make really good points in talking about the gi bill. talking about the funding of suburbia. also, i'd add in redlining. these are all things thaf reat
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really led and contributed to the vast inequality that we now see in this country, so many years later. rich benjamin, thank you so much for joining us. your book "whitopia, an improbable to the journey of the heart white america" thanks very much. right now, you are looking at live pictures of portland, oregon, where you can see a lot of people on the streets there marching in that city. and when we come back, hundreds of former national security officials and senior u.s. diplomats came together in a joint letter to speak out against president trump. one of them joins me next.
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national security officials wrote a letter to president trump to condemn. the letter reads in part misuse of the military for political
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purposes would weaken the fabric of our democracy, denigrate those who serve in uniform to protect and defend the constitution, and undermine our nation's strength abroad. there is no role for the u.s. military in dealing with american citizens, exercising their constitutional right to free speech. however uncomfortable that speech may be for some. joining me now is one of the officials who drafted that letter. former u.s. ambassador to lithuania during the obama administration, deborah mccarthy. she is now producer of the general and ambassador podcast series. ambassador, thank you, very much, for joining us. i covered-l the 2016 campaign a there were lots of these letters that were written and signed by a lot of current and former respected generals, ambassadors, national security experts, lawyers, et cetera. they didn't do anything to keep donald trump from -- from getting voted into office. do you think that this is
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something different? >> thank you for asking that because, as the numbers keep rolling in, and we're now at 434, including former secretary defense perry. it includes diplomats, generals, senior intelligence officers, former other seniors. and they're doing so, out of concern about what is happening in our country. but, most importantly, about the potential misuse of our military. that we have served with overseas. and the key points are -- is to use our military to end legitimate protests, undermines our founding principals, our values. but, also, it also undermines our global leadership. and it's that focus, on the possible misuse of our military
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for political purposes, that is the focus of this statement of concern. >> why is it so dangerous to have the military get involved in trying to control protects? why is it so dangerous for the american military to get involved in things, on american soil? >> as a nation, as we lead around the globe, how can we lead, when we focus on helping others, overseas, when we decry the use of the military by authoritarian regimes. when we decry the use of military tools, to oppress people. and this happens in authoritarian regimes. it doesn't happen in our own country. our military have been professional. they've been apolitical. politically neutral. it's been one of our strengths in our globe. and our soldiers, our military, go to liberate, not to dominate.
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and, today, i note that it's the 75th anniversary of d-day, when 160,000 u.s. and other troops went to liberate europe against nazi germany. so we're focusing on that aspect. >> let me ask you one more question. let me ask you one more question. james mattis came out and said the president is a threat to the constitution. john kelly backed james mattis up. was it a mistake for formerly or well-respected members of the military, or well-respected leaders in their field, to serve in this administration. did it help to normalize the president? >> well, our focus has been much more about what it's going to do to us, as a nation, if our military are used for certain purposes. and certainly, secretary mattis
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and others have spoken about the dangers of that. we're underlying the dangers as we lead globally. including, for example, the misuse or possible misuse of our military can also severely undermine the following. the propaganda machine of countries such as china and russia has been turned on and it's working overtime to further undermine our leadership. and, you know, that's a key element. i thought you were going to ask me a question. so i stopped there. >> no. no. it's okay. it's okay. you -- you -- you stopped just in time. former ambassador mccarthy, we have to go to a break anyways. thank you, very much, for joining us tonight. we appreciate you coming on late on a saturday evening with us. and coming up, struggle meets spirituality. i will speak to a pastor about a nation that needs healing as protestors take to the streets, and americans continue to battle a global pandemic. need better sleep?
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and to grow. so joining me now is pastor a.r. bernard of the christian cultural center in brooklyn, new york. and, pastor, we invited you on because we were hoping you might have some words for us, might have some advice for how we begin to heal. >> well, how kind of you to engage the prophetic imaginations of the conversation. katy, covid-19 compounded by the senseless murder of george floyd created a powerful atmosphere, and we must never underestimate the power of an atmosphere. everything happens in an atmosphere. the president shouldn't underestimate it. america shouldn't underestimate it because this has forced a necessary conversation about the serious deficiencies and inequities in our social systems, structures, policies, and practices that have marginalized persons of color for a long time. you know, it was 100 years ago
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that alan locke who was the first black rhodes scholar said this about african-americans. he said, we are people who are socially despised yet artistically esteemed, degraded and yet culturally influential, ostracized and yet a dominant editorial force in american life. today black culture and our influence is global. yet here it is 2020, 100 years later, and we're still experiencing the very things that locke spoke about. what's different and what is prophetic to me and what impresses me most is in this climate, especially as a person of color, it's something we haven't seen in a long time, katy -- a national consensus of outrageous across the political aisle, from every race, from every ethnicity, from every sector of society. black and brown people are sick and tired. white people are sick and tired of the systemic racism in our nation.
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there's a wonderful passage in proverbs where it says hope deferred makes the heart sick. that word "sick" means more than just disease. it means worn out. it means having your patience and tolerance exhausted. i think that's where we are as a nation. we know it's going to take collective effort, us coming together. black people and brown people can riot and scream all they want, but until white voices of influence get involved and begin to speak for those who cannot speak for themselves, to begin to address the injustices, we're not going to see the change that we need. we need a combination of prayer, advocacy, activism, protests, and development all coming together to make a difference. >> we only have one minute left in the show, but how do protesters -- how do we make sure that this is not just a moment in time, not just a flash in the pan, that this unity that we're seeing on the streets
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continues and results in some much needed change in this country? >> we've got to keep the conversation going. i had white pastors from across the country, colleagues in ministry call me and ask, look, we are broken. we hurt. we feel the pain, not the way you feel it, but we do have that empathy facilitated by conscience so we can feel a degree of the hurt and the pain. what do we do? my response, katy, use your platforms. use your voices. use your sphere of influence. keep the conversation going. and it's not conversation just among black people and not just amongst white people, but all people coming together and having this necessary dialogue. >> mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, everybody continuing to talk about this. pastor a.r. bernard, thank you so much for coming on and sharing those wise words. it's a really good way to end a saturday night. i appreciate your time, sir.
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and that will do it for me tonight. thank you for joining me on this saturday evening. i'll be back with you again on monday at 2:00 p.m. eastern and the rest of the week from 1:00 to 3:00. thanks for watching our coverage, and it continues right after a very short break. than rs or psoriatic arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr, a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough. it can reduce pain, swelling, and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections like tb; don't start xeljanz if you have an infection. taking a higher than recommended dose of xeljanz for ra can increase risk of death. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened. as have tears in the stomach or intestines, serious allergic reactions, and changes in lab results.
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