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tv   Vice Presidential Debate on MSNBC  MSNBC  October 7, 2020 6:00pm-8:00pm PDT

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you know, a virus that he has downplayed. it's almost like if neville chamberlain both appeased the germans and was taken prisoner. it underscores the central argument that joe biden is making against donald trump. in every day that goes, election days is five days earlier, millions have voted, and there's very few people. this time four years ago, we still had 15% to 17% of the electorate saying they might change their mind. right now that's under 5%. >> yep. >> it's just at the top of the hour right now, so i want to take a moment to welcome anybody who's just joining us now at the start of the vice presidential deba debate. we've got two minutes until the candidates come out. michael steele, i want to ask you to weigh in on that question from joy, whether this is a baked case at this point or whether sort of any externality could nudge it in a particular way? >> the cake is not baked until
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you get it out of the oven and actually until you start eating it. and even then you may realize, it could have stayed in the oven a little longer. the reality of it is for both campaigns, to david's point, the runway is a lot longer for joe to take off. i mean he's got the engines going. he's hitting his stride. trump, the runway is a lot shorter. so he's got to accelerate in a way in which every moment he gets to take advantage of the opportunity to get a voter to come to his corner. the problem is he has wasted 3 1/2 years doing that. so the idea that you're somehow going to find this mythical group of voters that has not made up their mind or that are there just waiting for you to ask them to vote for you is just problematic for the trump campaign. and the revelations around covid-19, which is something he didn't want to talk about, hitting the white house the way it has. and then most especially, the president's own behavior
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flattens that cake and makes it hard to even get it out of the oven, let alone eat it. >> that is now a metaphor that's been stretched to the point where it's making me hungry. >> plenty for you, rachel. >> if anybody can do it, it's you. former rnc chairman michael steele, former obama campaign chairman david plouffe. an honor to have both of you with us tonight. thank you. we're about one minute away from when we expect the candidates on the stage. can i tell you both before this starts, i am looking forward to being able to hear what each of the candidates says. >> same. >> i'm still not over just the cacophonous assault, the oral assault of last week's debate. i think whatever we're going to get from harris and pence, i expect we'll be able to hear each of them speak. >> i can still remember, and i do have a little ptsd from it. the three of us looking at each other like, what is happening? you literally couldn't understand what anyone was saying. it was horrific.
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>> almost from the very, very beginning. >> from the opening line. >> horrible. >> he couldn't stop talking, and the think the fact that it did so much harm to him politically and to the process and to all these things hold dear makes the stakes so much higher for the pence side tonight. >> that's right. >> well, you know, both candidates are -- both campaigns are supposed to raise debate expectations about the other side. >> yeah. >> i think that there are high expectations about mike pence. i don't actually think the trump side has done -- they've had their distractions to deal with. i don't think they've done a good job raising expectations. >> they're running around looking for ppe, which we know is in short supply. >> and mocking her for wanting a barrier. of course she wants a barrier. >> this will be the one and only vice presidential debate of this election season. again, this is the university of utah. the moderator is susan page of "usa today." >> good evening. from the university of utah in salt lake city, welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2020.
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sponsored by the nonpartisan commission on presidential debates. i'm susan page of "usa today." it is my honor to moderate this debate, an important part of our democracy. in kingsbury hall tonight we have a small and socially distant audience, and we've taken extra precautions during this pandemic. among other things, everyone in the audience is required to wear a face mask, and the candidates will be seated 12 feet apart. the audience is enthusiastic about their candidates, but they've agreed to express that enthusiasm only twice, at the end of the debate and now, when i introduce the candidates. please welcome california senator kamala harris and vice president mike pence. [ cheers and applause ]
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>> thank you. >> senator harris and vice president pence, thank you for being here. we're meeting as president trump and the first lady continue to undergo treatment in washington after testing positive for covid-19. we send our thoughts and prayers to them for their rapid and complete recovery and for the recovery of everyone afflicted by the coronavirus. the two campaigns and the commission on presidential debates have agreed to the ground rules for tonight. i'm here to enforce them on behalf of the millions of americans who are watching. one note, no one in either campaign or at the commission or anywhere else has been told in advance what topics i'll raise or what questions i'll ask. this 90-minute debate will be divided into nine segments of about ten minutes each.
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i'll begin a segment by posing a question to each of you, sometimes the same question, sometimes a different question on the same topic. you will then have two minutes to answer without interruption by me or the other candidate. then we'll take six minutes or so to discuss the issue. at that point, although there will always be more to say, we'll move on to the next topic. we want a debate that is lively, but americans also deserve a discussion that is civil. these are tumultuous times, but we can and will have a respectful exchange about the big issues facing our nation. let's begin with the ongoing pandemic that has cost our country so much. senator harris, the coronavirus is not under control. over the past week, johns hopkins reports that 39 states have had more covid cases over the past seven days than in the week before. nine states have set new
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records. even if a vaccine is released soon, the next administration will face hard choices. what would a biden administration do in january and february that a trump administration wouldn't do? would you impose new lockdowns for businesses and schools in hot spots, a federal mandate to wear masks? you have two minutes to respond without interruption. >> thank you, susan. well, the american people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country, and here are the facts. 210,000 dead people in our country in just the last several months. over 7 million people who have contracted this disease. one in five businesses closed. we're looking at frontline workers who have been treated like sacrificial workers. we are looking at over 30 million people who in the last
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several months had to file for unemployment. and here's the thing. on january 28th, the vice president and the president were informed about the nature of this pandemic. they were informed that it's lethal in consequence, that it is airborne, that it will affect young people, and that it would be contracted because it is airborne, and they knew what was happening, and they didn't tell you. can you imagine if you knew on january 28th, as opposed to march 13th, what they knew, what you might have done to prepare? they knew and they covered it up. the president said it was a hoax. they minimized the seriousness of it. the president said you're on one side of his ledger if you wear a mask. you're on the other side of his ledger if you don't. and in spite of all of that, today they still don't have a plan. they still don't have a plan.
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well, joe biden does. and our plan is about what we need to do around a national strategy for contact tracing, for testing, for administration of the vaccine, and making sure that it will be free for all. that is the plan that joe biden has and that i have, knowing that we have to get a hold of what has been going on, and we need to save our country, and joe biden is the best leader to do that. and frankly this administration has forfeited their right to re-election based on this. >> thank you, senator harris. vice president pence, more than 210,000 americans have died of covid-19 since february. the u.s. death toll as a percentage of our paplatiopulat higher than almost every other wealthy nation on earth. for instance, our death rate is 2 1/2 times that of canada next door. you head the administration's coronavirus task force. why is the u.s. death toll, as a percentage of our population, higher than that of almost every
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other wealthy country? and you have two minutes to respond without interruption. >> susan, thank you. and i want to thank the commission and the university of utah for hosting this event. and, senator harris, it's a privilege to be on the stage with you. our nation's gone through a very challenging time this year. what i want the american people to know, that from the very first day, president donald trump has put the health of america first. before there were more than five cases in the united states, all people who had returned from china, president donald trump did what no other american president had ever done, and that was he suspended all travel from china, the second largest economy in the world. now, senator, joe biden opposed that decision. he said it was xenophobic and hysterical. i can tell you having led the
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white house coronavirus task force that that decision by president trump bought us valuable time to set up the greatest mobilization since world war ii, and i believe it saved hundreds of thousands of american lives. because with that time we were able to reinvent testing. more than 115 million tests have been done to date. we were able to see to the delivery of billions of supplies so our doctors and nurses had the resources and support they needed. and we began really before the month of february to develop a vaccine and to develop medicines and therapeutics and have been saving lives all along the way. and under president trump's leadership, operation warp speed we believe will have literally tens of millions of doses of vaccine before the end of this year. the reality is when you look at the biden plan, it reads an awful lot like what president trump and i and our task force have been doing every step of the way. quite frankly, when i look at their plan that talks about advancing testing, creating new ppe, developing a vaccine, it
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looks a little bit like plagiarism, which is something joe biden knows a little bit about. and i think the american people know this is a president who has put -- >> thank you -- >> and the american people, i believe with my heart, can be proud of the sacrifices they have made. it's saved countless american lives. >> thank you. senator harris, would you like to respond? >> absolutely. whatever the vice president is claiming the administration has done, clearly it hasn't worked. when you're looking at over 210,000 dead bodies in our country, american lives, that have been lost, families that are grieving that loss. and, you know, the vice president is the head of the task force and knew on january 28th how serious this was. and then thanks to bob woodward, we learned that they knew about it, and then when that was exposed, the vice president said, when asked, well, why didn't y'all tell anybody, he said because the president wanted people to remain calm.
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well, let's -- susan, this is important -- >> i have to weight in. >> mr. vice president, i'm speaking. >> you have 15 more seconds and then we'll give the -- >> thank you. so i want to ask the american people, how calm were you when you were panicked about where you were going to get your next roll of toilet paper? how calm were you when your kids were sent home from school and you didn't know when they could come back? >> thank you. >> how calm were you when your children couldn't see your parents because you were afraid they could kill them. >> vice president pence, you have one minute to respond. >> there's not a day gone by that i haven't thought of every american family that's lost a loved one. i want all of you to know you'll always be in our hearts and in our prayers. but when you see what the american people have done over these last eight months hasn't worked, it's a great disservice to the sacrifices the american people have made. the reality -- if i may finish, the reality is dr. fauci said
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everything that he told the president in the oval office, the president told the american people. president trump, i will tell you, has boundless confidence in the american people, and he always spoke with confidence that we'd get through this together. but when you say it hasn't worked, when dr. fauci and dr. birx and our medical experts came to us in the second week of march, they said if the president didn't take the unprecedented step of shutting down roughly half of the american economy, that we could lose 2.2 million americans. and that's the reality. >> thank you. >> they also said to us if we did everything right, susan, we could still lose more than 200,000 americans. >> vice president pence -- >> one life lost is too many, susan. but the american people, i believe, deserve credit for the sacrifices that they have made putting the health of their family and their neighbors first, our doctors, our nurses, our first responders. >> thank you, vice president pence. vice president pence, you were in the front row in a rose garden event 11 days ago at what
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seems to be a super spreader event. no social distancing. few masks, and now a cluster of coronavirus cases among those who were there. how can you expect americans to follow the administration's safety guidelines to protect themselves from covid when you at the white house have not been doing so? >> well, the american people have demonstrated, over the last eight months -- they've been given the facts. they're willing to put the health of their families and their neighbors and people they don't even know first. president trump and i have great confidence in the american people and their ability to take that information and put it into practice. in the height of the epidemic when we were losing a heartbreaking number of -- 2,500 americans a day, we surged resources to new jersey and new york and new orleans and detroit. we told the american people what needed to be done, and the american people made the sacrifices. when the outbreak in the sun
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belt happened this summer, again, americans stepped forward. but the reality is the work of the president of the united states goes on. vacancy on the supreme court of the united states has come upon us, and the president introduced judge amy coney barrett. >> thank you. >> if i may say, that rose garden event, i've done a great deal of speculation about it. my wife karen and i were there and honored to be there. many of the people who were at that event, susan, actually were tested for coronavirus, and it was an outdoor event, which all of our scientists regularly and routinely advise. the difference here is president trump and i trust the american people to make choices in the best interest of their health. joe biden and kamala harris consistently talk about mandates, and not just mandates with the coronavirus but a government takeover of health care. >> thank you. thank you, vice president pence. >> the green new deal. all government control. we're about freedom and respecting the freedom of the american people. >> let's talk about respecting the american people.
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you respect the american people when you tell them the truth. you respect the american people when you have the courage -- >> which we've always done. >> -- to be a leader speaking of those things that you may not want people to hear but they need to hear so they can protect themselves. but this administration stood on information that if you had as a parent, if you had as a worker knowing you didn't have enough money saved up and now you're standing in a food line because of the ineptitude of an administration that was unwilling to speak the truth to the american people. so let's talk about caring about the american people. the american people have had to sacrifice far too much because of the incompetence of this administration. it is asking too much of the people -- >> susan, we talked -- >> it's asking too much of the people that they would not be equipped with the information they need to help themselves to protect their parents and their children. >> kamala harris, senator harris, i mean, i'm sorry. >> that's fine. i'm kamala. >> no, no. you're senator harris to me.
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for life to get back to normal, dr. anthony fauci and other experts say that most of the people who can be vaccinated need to be vaccinated. but half of americans now say they wouldn't take a vaccine if it was released now. if the trump administration approves a vaccine before or after the election, should americans take it, and would you take it? >> if the public health professionals, if dr. fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, i'll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. but if donald trump tells us we should take it, i'm not taking it. >> vice president pence, there have been a lot of repercussions from this pandemic. in recent days, the president's diagnosis of covid-19 has underscored the importance of the job that you hold and that you are seeking. that's our second topic tonight. it's the role of the vice president. one of you will make history on january 20th. you will be the vice president to the oldest president the united states has ever had. donald trump will be 74 years
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old on inauguration day. joe biden will be 78 years old. that already has raised concerns among some voters, concerns that have been sharpened by president trump's hospitalization in recent days. vice president pence, have you had a conversation or reached an agreement with president trump about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of presidential disability? and if not, do you think you should? you have two minutes without interruption. >> well, susan, thank you. although i would like to go back -- >> i think we need to move on to the issue of -- >> thank you. but i would like to go back because the reality is that we're going to have a vaccine, senator, in record time, in unheard of time, in less than a year. we have five companies in phase three clinical trials, and we're right now producing tens of millions of doses. so the fact that you continue to undermine public confidence in a
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vaccine, if a vaccine emerges during the trump administration, i think is unconscionable. and, senator, i just ask you stop playing politics with people's lives. the reality is that we will have a vaccine, we believe, before the end of this year, and it will have the capacity to save countless american lives. and your continuous undermining of confidence in a vaccine is just -- it's just unacceptable. and let me also say, you know, the reality is when you talk about failure in this administration, we actually do know what failure looks like in a pandemic. it was 2009. the swine flu arrived in the united states. thankfully it was -- ended up not being as lethal as the coronavirus. but before the end of the year, when joe biden was vice president of the united states, not 7.5 million contracted the swine flu.
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60 million americans contracted the swine flu. if the swine flu had been as lethal as the coronavirus in 2009, when joe biden was vice president, we would have lost 2 million american lives. his own chief of staff, ron klain, would say last year that it was pure luck that they did, quote, everything possible wrong. and we learned from that. they left the strategic national stockpile empty. they left an empty and hollow plan. >> thank you, vice president pence. >> but we still learned from it -- i want to say again -- >> vice president pence, i'm sorry. your time is up. >> and, senator, please stop undermining confidence in a vaccine. >> senator harris, let me ask you the same question. >> sure. >> that i asked vice president pence, which is have you had a conversation or reached an agreement with vice president biden about safeguards or procedures when it comes to the issue of presidential disability? and if not, and if you win the election next month, do you
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think you should? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> so let me tell you first of all, the day i got the call from joe biden, it was actually a zoom call, asking me to serve with him on this ticket was probably one of the most memorable days of my life. i -- you know, i thought about my mother, who came to the united states at the age of 19, gave birth to me at the age of 25 at kaiser hospital in oakland, california. and the thought that i'd be sitting here right now, i know would make her proud, and she must be looking down on this. you know, joe and i were raised in a very similar way. we were raised with values that are about hard work, about the value and the dignity of public service, and about the importance of fighting for the dignity of all people. and i think joe asked me to serve with him because, you know, i have a career that included being elected the first
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woman district attorney of san francisco, where i created models of innovation for law enforcement in terms of reform of the criminal justice system. i was elected the first woman of color and black woman to be elected attorney general of the state of california, where i ran the second largest department of justice in the united states, second only to the united states department of justice. and there i took on everything from transnational criminal organizations to the big banks that were taking advantage of homeowners to for-profit colleges that were taking advantage of veterans. and then of course now i serve in the united states senate as only the second black woman ever elected to the united states senate. i serve on the senate intelligence committee where i've been in regular receipt of classified information about threats to our nation in hot spots around the world. i've traveled the world. i've met with our soldiers in war zones. and i think joe has asked me to serve with him because he knows that we share, we share a purpose, which is about lifting up the american people.
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and after the four years that we have seen of donald trump unifying our country around our common values and principles. >> thank you, senator harris. neither president trump nor vice president biden has released the sort of detailed health information that had become the modern norm until the 2016 election. and in recent days, president trump's doctors have given misleading answers or refused to answer basic questions about his health. and my question to each of you in turn is, is this information voters deserve to know? vice president pence, would you like to go first? >> well, susan, thank you. and let me say on behalf of the president and the first lady how moved we've all been by the outpouring of prayers and concern for the president, and i do believe it's emblematic of the prayers and the concern that have ushered forth for every american impacted by the
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coronavirus. but the care the president received at walter reed hospital, the white house doctors, was exceptional. and the transparency that they practiced all along the way will continue continue. the american people have a right to know about the health and well-being of their president, and we'll continue to do that. but i'm just extremely grateful and was more than -- more than a little moved by the broad and bipartisan support. and, senator, i want to thank you and joe biden for your expressions and genuine concern. i also want to congratulate you, as i did on that phone call -- >> mm-hmm. >> -- on the historic nature of your nomination. >> thank you. >> i never expected to be on this stage four years ago, so i know the feeling. but the reality is, we've got an election before the american people in the midst of this challenging year, and the stakes have never been higher. >> thank you. i want to give senator harris a chance to respond to the same
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questions i asked which is do voters have a right to know more detailed health information about presidential candidates, and especially about presidents, especially when they're facing some kind of challenge? >> absolutely. that's why joe biden has been so incredibly transparent and certainly by contrast, the president has not, both in terms of health records but also let's look at taxes. we now know because of great investigative journalism that donald trump paid $750 in taxes. when i first heard about it, i literally said, you mean $750,000? and it was like, no, $750. we now know donald trump owes and is in debt for $400 million. and just so everyone is clear, when we say in debt, it means you owe money to somebody. and it would be really good to know who the president of the united states, the commander in chief, owes money to because the american people have a right to
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know what is influencing the president's decisions. and is he making those decisions on the best interest of the american people, of you, or self-interest? so, susan, i'm glad you asked about transparency, because it has to be across the board. joe has been incredibly transparent over many, many years. the one thing we all know about joe, he puts it all out there. he is honest. he is forthright. but donald trump, on the other hand, has been -- >> susan. >> has been about covering uneverything. >> thank you, senator harris. i want to give you a chance to respond, vice president. >> look, i respect the fact that joe biden spent 47 years in public life. i respect your public service as well. >> thank you. >> the american people have a president who is a businessman, a job creator, who has paid tens of millions of dollars in taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes. he's created tens of thousands of american jobs. the president said those public
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reports are not accurate, and the president's also released literally stacks of financial disclosures the american people can review just as the law allows. but the distinction here is that joe biden, 47 years in public service compared to president donald trump, who brought all of that experience four years ago -- >> thank you, vice president. >> and turned this economy around by cutting taxes, rolling back regulations. >> thank you, vice president pence. >> fighting for free and fair trade. >> thank you, vice president pence. you know, that's a good segue into our third topic. >> that's a great segue. >> which is about the economy. this is another aspect of life of americans that's been so affects by this coronavirus. we have a jobs crisis brewing. on friday, we learned that the unemployment rate had declined to 7.9% in september, but that job growth had stalled. that was before the latest round of layoffs and furloughs in the airline industry, at disney and
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elsewhere. hundreds of thousands of discouraged workers have stopped looking for work. nearly 11 million jobs that existed at the beginning of the year haven't been replaced. those hardest hit include latinos, blacks, and women. senator harris, the biden/harris campaign has proposed new programs to boost the economy, and you would pay for that new spending by raising $4 trillion in taxes on wealthy individuals and corporations. some economists warn that could curb entrepreneurial ventures that fuel growth and create jobs. would raising taxes put the recovery at risk? and you have two minutes to answer uninterrupted. >> thank you. on the issue of the economy, i think there couldn't be a more fundamental difference between donald trump and joe biden. joe biden believes you measure the health and the strength of america's economy based on the health and the strength of the american worker and the american family. on the other hand, you have
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donald trump, who measures the strength of the economy based on how rich people are doing, which is why he passed a tax bill benefiting the top 1% and the biggest corporations of america, leading to a $2 trillion deficit that the american people are going to have to pay for. on day one, joe biden will repeal that tax bill. he'll get rid of it, and what he'll do with the money is invest it in the american people. and through a plan that is about investing in infrastructure, something that donald trump said he would do, i remember hearing about some infrastructure week. i don't think it ever happened. but joe biden will do that. he'll invest in infrastructure. it's about upgrading our roads and bridges but also investing in clean energy and renewable energy. joe is going to invest that money in what we need to do around innovation. there was a time when our country believed in science and invested in research and development so that we were an innovation leader on the globe. joe biden will use that money to
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invest in education. so, for example, for folks who want to go to a two-year community college, it will be free. if you come from a family that makes less than $125,000, you'll go to a public university for free. and across the board, we'll make sure that if you have student loan debt, it's cut by $10,000. that's how joe biden thinks about the economy. it's about investing in the people of our country as opposed to passing a tax bill which had the benefit of letting american corporations go offshore to do their business. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> vice president pence, your administration has been predicting a rapid and robust recovery, but the latest economic reports suggest that's not happening. should americans be braced for an economic comeback that is going to take months but a year or more? you have two minutes to answer uninterrupted. >> when president trump and i took office, america had gone through the slowest economic recovery since the great
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depression. it's when joe biden was vice president they tried to tax and spend and regulation and bail our way back to a growing economy. president trump cut taxes across the board. despite what senator harris says, the average american family of four had $2,000 in savings in taxes. and with the rise in wages that occurred, most predominantly for blue collar hardworking americans, the average household income for a family of four increased by $4,000 following president trump's tax cuts. but, america, you just heard senator harris tell you on day one, joe biden's going to raise your taxes. it's really remarkable to think -- >> that's not what i said. >> i mean right after a time where we're going through a pandemic that lost 22 million jobs at the height, we've already added back 11.6 million jobs because we had a president who cut taxes, rolled back regulation, unleashed american energy, fought for free and fair trade, and secured $4 trillion from the congress of the united states to give direct payments
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to families, save 50 million jobs through the paycheck protection program. we literally have spared no expense to help the american people and the american worker through this. joe biden and kamala harris want to raise taxes. they want to bury our economy under a $2 trillion green new deal, which you were one of the original co-sponsors of in the united states senate. they want to abolish fossil fuels and ban fracking, which would cost hundreds of thousands of american jobs all across the heartland. and joe biden wants to go back to the economic surrender to china that when we took office, half of our international trade deficit was with china alone. and joe biden wants to repeal all of the tariffs that president trump put into effect to fight for american jobs and american workers. joe biden says democracy's on the ballot. make no mistake about it, susan. the american economy, the american comeback is on the ballot with four more years of growth and opportunity, four more years of donald trump.
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>> thank you, vice president. >> 2021 is going to be the biggest economic year in the history of this country. >> thank you, vice president pence. senator harris. >> i thought we saw enough of it in last week's debate, but i think this is supposed to be a debate based on fact and truth. and the truth and the fact is joe biden has been very clear. he will not raise taxes on anybody who makes less than $400,000 a year. >> he said he was going to repeal the tax cuts. >> mr. vice president, i'm speaking. >> the importance is the truth. joe biden said twice in the debate last week that he's going to repeal the trump tax cuts. that was tax cuts that gave the average working family $2,000 in a tax break every single year. >> that is absolutely not true. >> is he only going to repeal part of the trump tax cuts? >> if you don't mind letting me finish, we can then have a conversation, okay? >> please. >> okay. joe biden will not raise taxes on anyone who makes less than $400,000 a year. he has been very clear about that. joe biden will not end fracking.
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he has been very clear about that. joe biden is the one who, during the great recession, was responsible for the recovery act that brought america back. and now the trump/pence administration wants to take credit when they rode the coattails of joe biden's success for the economy that they had at the beginning of their term. of course now the economy is a complete disaster. but joe biden on the one hand did that. on the other hand, you have donald trump, who has reigned over a recession that is being compared to the great depression. on the one hand, you have joe biden, who was responsible with president barack obama for the affordable care act, which brought health care to over 20 million americans and protected people with pre-existing conditions. and what it also did is it saved those families who otherwise were going bankrupt because of hospital bills they could not
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afford. on the other hand, you have donald trump who is in court right now trying to get rid of -- >> susan, please. >> trying to get rid of the affordable care act, which means that you will lose protections if you have pre-existing conditions. and i just -- this is very important, susan. >> yes, but we need to give vice president -- >> i'd just like to -- he interrupted me, and i'd like to just finish, please. if you have a pre-existing condition, heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer, they're coming for you. if you love someone who has a pre-existing condition -- >> that's nonsense. >> they're coming for you. if you are under the age of 26 on your parents' coverage, they're coming for you. >> senator harris, thank you. >> you're welcome. >> let me give you a chance to respond. >> i hope we have a chance to talk about health care because obamacare was a disaster. the american people remember it well. president trump and i have a plan to improve health care and to protect pre-existing conditions for every american. but, look, senator harris, you're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your
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own facts. you, yourself, said on multiple occasions when you were running for president that you would ban fracking. joe biden looked his supporter in the eye and pointed and said, i guarantee -- i guarantee that we will abolish fossil fuels. they have a $2 trillion version of the green new deal that your newspaper said really wasn't that very different from the original green new deal. more taxes, more regulation, banning fracking, abolishing fossil fuel, crushing american energy, and economic surrender to china is a prescription for economic decline. president trump and i will keep america growing. the v-shape recovery that's under way right now will continue with four more years of president donald trump in the white house. >> thank you very much, vice president pence. once again you've provided the perfect segue to a new topic, which is climate change. and vice president pence, i'd like to pose the first question to you. this year we've seen
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record-setting hurricanes in the south. another one, hurricane delta, is now threatening the gulf. we have seen record-setting wildfires in the west. do you believe, as the scientific community has concluded, that manmade climate change has made wildfires bigger, hotter, and more deadly and have made hurricanes wetter, slower, and more damaging? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> thank you, susan. first i'm very proud of our record on the environment and on conservation. according to all of the best estimates, our air and land are cleaner than any time ever recorded. our water is among the cleanest in the world. and just a little while ago, the president signed the outdoors act. it's the largest investment in our public lands and public parks in 100 years. so president trump has made a commitment to conservation and to the environment. now, with regard to climate change, the climate is changing. but the issue is what's the
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cause, and what do we do about it? president trump has made it clear that we're going to continue to listen to the science. now, joe biden and kamala harris would put us back in the paris climate accord. they'd impose the green new deal, which would crush american energy, would increase the energy costs of american families in their homes, and literally would crush american jobs. president trump and i believe that the progress that we have made in a cleaner environment has been happening precisely because we have a strong free market economy. you know, what's remarkable is the united states has reduced co2 more than the countries that are still in the paris climate accord, but we've done it through innovation. and we've done it through natural gas and fracking, which, senator, the american people can go look at the record. i know joe biden says otherwise now, as you do, but the both of you repeatedly committed to
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abolishing fossil fuel and banning fracking. so by creating the kind of american innovation, we're actually steering toward a stronger and better environment. with regard to wildfires, president trump and i believe that forest management has to be front and center, and even governor gavin newsom from your state has agreed we've got to work on forest management. and with regard to hurricanes, the national oceanic administration tells us that actually -- >> thank you. >> difficult as they are, there are no more hurricanes today. >> thank you. >> than there were 100 years ago. >> thank you. >> but many of the climate alarmists. >> vice president, i'm sorry. your time is up. >> -- of a green new deal and president trump and i are going to put american jobs and american workers first. >> senator harris, as the vice president mentioned, you co-sponsored the green new deal in congress. but vice president biden says in last week's debate that he does not support the green new deal. but if you look at the biden/harris campaign website,
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it describes the green new deal as a crucial framework. what exactly would be the stance of a biden/harris administration toward the green new deal? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> so first of all, i will repeat, and the american people know, that joe biden will not ban fracking. that is a fact. that is a fact. i will repeat that joe biden has been very clear that he thinks about growing jobs, which is why he will not increase taxes for anyone who makes less than $400,000 a year. joe biden's economic plan, moody's, which is a reputable wall street firm, has said we'll create 7 million more jobs than donald trump's. and part of those jobs that will be created by joe biden are going to be about clean energy and renewable energy because, you see, joe understands that
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the west coast of our country is burning, including my home state of california. joe sees what is happening on the gulf states, which are being battered by storms. joe has seen and talked with the farmers in iowa, whose entire crops have been destroyed because of floods. and so joe believes, again, in science. i'll tell you something, susan, i served when i first got to the senate on the committee that's responsible for the environment. do you know this administration took the word "science" off the website and then took the phrase "climate change" off the website. we have seen a pattern with this administration, which is they don't believe in science. and joe's plan is about saying, we're going to deal with it, but we're also going to create jobs. donald trump, when asked about the wildfires in california and the question was, you know, the science is telling us this. you know what donald trump said? "science doesn't know." so let's talk about who is prepared to lead our country over the course of the next four
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years on what is an existential threat to us as human beings. joe is about saying, we're going to invest that in renewable energy. it's going to be about the creation of millions of jobs. we will achieve net zero emissions by 2050, carbon neutral by 2025. joe has a plan. this has been a lot of talk from the trump administration and really it has been to go backward instead of forward. we will also re-enter the climate agreement with pride. >> senator harris just said climate change is an existential threat. vice president pence, do you believe that climate change poses an existential threat? >> as i said, susan, the climate is changing. we'll follow the science. but once again, senator harris is denying the fact that they're going to raise taxes on every american. joe biden said twice in the debate last week that on day one, he was going to repeal the trump tax cuts. those tax cuts delivered $2,000
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in tax relief to the average family of four across america. and with regard to banning fracking, i'd just recommend that people look at the record. you, yourself, said repeatedly that you would ban fracking. you were the first senate co-sponsor of the green new deal. and while joe biden denied the green new deal, susan, thank you for pointing out the green new deal is on their campaign website. and as "usa today" said, it's essentially the same plan as you co-sponsored with aoc when she submitted it in the senate. and you just heard the senator say that she's going to resubmit america to the paris climate accord. look, the american people have always cherished our environment. we'll continue to cherish it. we've made great progress reducing co2 emissions through american innovation and the development of natural gas through fracking. we don't need a massive $2 trillion green new deal that would impose all new mandates on american businesses and american families. >> thank you. >> joe biden wants us to
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retrofit 4 million -- >> thank you, vice president. >> -- buildings. it makes no sense. it will cost jobs. president trump -- >> thank you, vice president pence. >> -- america first. he's going to put jobs first. and we're going to take care of our environment and follow the science. >> on the issue of jobs -- >> senator harris. >> let's talk about that. the vice president earlier referred to it as part of what he thinks is an accomplishment, the president's trade war with china. you lost that trade war. you lost it. what ended up happening is because of a so-called trade war with china, america lost 300,000 manufacturing jobs. farmers have experienced bankruptcy because of it. we are in a manufacturing recession because of it. and when we look at where this administration has been, there are estimates that by the end of the term of this administration, they will have lost more jobs
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than almost any other presidential administration -- >> susan. >> and the american people know what i'm talking about. you know -- i think about 20-year-olds. you know, we have a 20-year-old, 20-something-year-old, who are coming out of high school and college right now, and you're wondering is there going to be a job there for me. we're looking at people who are trying to figure out how they're going to pay rent by the end of the month. almost half of american renters are worried about whether they're going to be able to pay rent by the end of the month. this is where the economy is in america right now, and it is because of the catastrophe and the failure of leadership of this administration. >> thank you, senator harris. vice president pence, let me give you just 15 seconds to respond because then i want to move on. >> well, i'd love to respond. look, lost the trade war with china? joe biden never fought it. joe biden has been a cheerleader for communist china over the last several decades.
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and, again, senator harris, you're entitled to your opinion. you're not entitled to your own facts. when joe biden was vice president, we lost 200,000 manufacturing jobs, and president obama said they were never coming back. he said we needed a magic wand to bring them back. in our first three years after we cut taxes -- >> thank you, vice president pence. >> -- unleashed american energy, this administration saw 500,000 manufacturing jobs created. >> thank you, vice president pence. >> and that's exactly the kind of growth we're going to continue to see as we bring our nation through -- >> thank you, vice president pence. >> -- this pandemic. the green new deal, your paris climate accord is going to kill jobs this time just like it killed jobs -- >> i just need to respond very briefly. >> 15 seconds and then we'll move on. >> thank you. joe biden is responsible for saving america's auto industry, and you voted against it. so let's set the record straight. thank you. >> i'd like to talk about china. we have, as our next topic, we have no more complicated or
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consequential foreign relationship than the one with china. it is a huge market for american agricultural goods. it's a potential partner in dealing with climate change in north korea. and in a video tonight, president trump again blamed it for the coronavirus, saying china will pay. vice president pence, how would you describe our fundamental relationship with china? competitors, adversaries, enemies? you have two minutes. >> thank you, susan. let me -- before i leave that, let me speak to voting records if i can. you know, everybody knows that nafta cost literally thousands of american factories to close. we saw automotive jobs go south of the border. president trump fought to renegotiate nafta. and the united states, mexico, canada agreement is now the law of the land. the american people deserve to know senator kamala harris was one of only ten members of the senate to vote against the usmca. it was a huge win for american
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autoworkers. it was a huge win for american farmers, especially dairy in the upper midwest. but, senator, you said it didn't go far enough on climate change. >> mm-hmm. >> that you put your -- your radical environmental agenda ahead of american autoworkers and ahead of american jobs. i think the american people deserve to know that. it's probably why "newsweek" magazine said that kamala harris was the most liberal member of the united states senate in 2019, more liberal than bernie sanders, more liberal than any of the others in the united states senate. so, now, with regard to china, look, susan, first and foremost, china is to blame for the coronavirus. and president trump is not happy about it. he's made that very clear, made it clear again today. china and the world health organization did not play straight with the american people. they did not let our personnel into china to get information on the coronavirus until the middle
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of february. fortunately president trump, in dealing with china from the outset of this administration, standing up to china that had been taking advantage of america for decades in the wake of joe biden's cheerleading for cheer china. president trump made the decision to suspend all travel from china. again, the american people deserve to know that joe biden opposed president trump's decision to suspend all travel from china. >> thank you. vice president pence, your time is up. thank you vice president pence. >> we want to improve the relationship -- >> vice president pence. thank you. senator harris, let me ask you the same question that i asked the vice president. how would you describe our fundamental relationship with china? are we competitors, adversaries, enemies? you will have two minutes uninterrupted. >> susan, the trump
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administration's perspective and approach to china has resulted in the loss of american lives, american jobs and america's standing. there is a weird obsession that president trump has had with getting rid of whatever accomplishment was achieved by president obama and vice president biden. for example, they created within the white house an office that was responsible for monitoring pandemics. they got rid of it. >> not true. >> there was a team of disease experts that president obama and vice president biden dispatched to china to monitor what is now predictable and what might happen. they pulled them out. we now are looking at 210,000 americans who have lost their
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lives. let's look at the job situation. we mentioned before, the trade deal. the trade war they wanted to call it with china. it resulted in the loss of over 300 manufacturing jobs and a manufacturing recession and the american consumer paying thousands of more dollars for goods because of that failed war that they called it. let's talk about sanding. they have done an analysis that shows that leaders of all of our formally allied countries have now decided they hold in greater esteem and respect the head of the chinese communist party than they do donald trump, the commander in chief of the united states. this is where we are today because of a failure of leadership by the administration.
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>> senator harris, we have seen changes in the role of the united states in terms of leadership over the past four years. and of course times do change. what is your definition? we have seen china as the vice president mentioned. we have seen our traditional allies. what is your role of american leadership in 2020? >> you know, i love talking with joe about a lot of the issues. joe, i think he said it quite well that foreign policy might sound policy, but really it is just relationships. think of it as relationships. we know this in our personal and our professional relationships. you have to keep your word to your friends. you have to be loyal to your friends. people that stood with you, stand with them. you have to know who your adversaries are, and keep them in check. what we have seen with donald
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trump is that he has betrayed our friends and embraced dictators around the world. let's take for example russia. i serve on the intelligence committee of the united states senate. america's intelligence community told us russia interfered in the election with the president of the united states in 2016 and is planning on it in 2020. the director of the fbi said the same. but donald trump, the commander in chief of the united states of america prefers to take the word of vladimir putin over the word of the american intelligence community. you look at our friends at nato. he has walked away from agreements. look at the iran nuclear deal which now put us in a position where we are less safe because they are building up what might end up being a significant nuclear arsenal.
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we were in that deal, guys. we were in the iran nuclear deal with friends and allies around the country and because of donald trump's unilateral approach to foreign policy coupled with his isolationalism. susan, it is about relationships. the thing that always has been a part of the strength of our nation, in addition to the great military, is that we keep our word. donald trump does not understand that. he does not understand what it means to be honest. >> thank you senator harris. vice president, a chance to respond. >> thank you. president trump kept his word when we moved the american embassy to jerusalem. with joe biden as vice president they promised to do that and never did. we stood strong with the allies. but we have been demanding. nato is now contributing more to the common defense than ever before thanks to president
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trump's leadership. we strengthened our alliances across the asian pacific and stood strong against those that would do us harm. when president trump came into office isis captured an area of the middle east the size of pennsylvania. president trump unleashed the american military and our armed forces destroyed isis and took down their leader without one casualty. bagdhati was responsible for the deaths of thousands. today two of the isis killers responsible for the murder were brought to justice in the united states. the reality is that when joe biden was vice president we had
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an opportunity to save kalen miller. the military came into the oval office. they said they knew where she was. but when joe biden was vice president they hesitated for a month. when armed forces finally went in it was clear she was moved two days earlier and her family says with a heart that broke the heart of every american that if president trump were president they believe she would be alive today. you talk about reentering the iran nuclear deal. the last administration transferred $1.8 billion to the leading state sponsor of terrorism. president trump got us out of the deal and -- >> thank you vice president. thank you vice president pence.
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>> and america is safer. our allies are safer. >> thank you vice president. i would like to give senator harris a chance to respond but not at such great length. >> i would like equal time. first of all, to the mueller family, i know about your daughter's case, and i am so sorry. i am so sorry. what happened to her is awful and should never have happened. i know joe feels the same way. i know president obama feels the same way. after the strike on solemani there was a counter strike on the troops in iraq. and they suffered serious brain injuries.
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do you know what donald trump dismissed them as? headaches. this is about a pattern of donald trumps. he has referred to our men who are serving in our military as suckers and losers. donald trump who went to arlington cemetery and stood above the graves of our fallen heroes and said what's in it for them. you know he only thinks about what is in it for him. let's take what he said about john mccain, a great american hero. and donald trump says he doesn't deserve to be called a hero because he was a prisoner of war. this is very important when you want to talk about who is the current commander in chief and what they care about and what they don't care about. public reporting that russia had bounties on the heads of
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american soldiers. you know what a bounty is? it is somebody puts a price on your head and they will pay it if you are killed. and donald trump had talked at least six times to vladimir putin and never brought up the subject. joe biden would never do that. joe biden would hold russia to account for any threat to our nation's security or to our troops who are sacrificing their lives for the sake of our democracy and our safety. >> thank you senator harris. this is such an important issue but we have others as well. >> 15 seconds. >> i have to have more than that. >> -- slanders against donald trump regarding men and women of the armed forces are absurd.
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>> i'm sorry, vice president pence. >> my son-in-law is deployed in the united states navy. i can assure all of you that your sons and daughters serving in the military president trump respects and reveres all of us who served in the armed forces. the american people deserve to know. >> i did not create the rules for tonight. your campaigns agreed to the rules for tonight's debate with the commission. i am here to enforce them which involves moving from one topic to another and giving roughly equal time to both of you. i want to go ahead and move to the next topic which is an important one as the last topic was. that is the supreme court. on monday the senate judiciary is scheduled to open hearings on amy coney barrett's nomination to the supreme court. senator harris, you will be
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theres as a member of the committee. it will make it likely open to more abortion restrictions and even overturning the landmark roe v. wade ruling. vice president pence, you are the former governor of indiana. if roe v. wade was overturned what would you want indiana to do? would you want your home state to ban all abortions? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> thank you for the question but i will use time to respond to the very important issue before. the american people deserve to know that the iranian general was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of american service members. when the opportunity came he headed to baghdad to kill more americans and president trump did not hesitate and solemani is gone. you deserve to know that joe biden and kamala harris
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criticized the decision. but with regard to joe biden, it is explainable. his history reports that joe biden opposed the raid against bin laden. it is essential that we have a commander in chief that won't hesitate to act to protect american lives and service members. now with regard to the supreme court of the united states, let me say that president trump and i could not be more enthusiastic about the opportunity to see judge amy coney barrett become justice amy coney barrett. she is a brilliant woman and will bring a lifetime of experience and sizeable family to the supreme court of the united states. and our hope is that in the hearing next week, unlike justice kavanaugh received we hope she gets a fair hearing and that we don't see the attacks on
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her christian faith that we saw before. the democratic chairman of the judiciary committee before when judge barrett was being confirmed for the court of appeals expressed concern the dogma of her faith lived loudly in her and dick durbin of illinois said it was a concern. >> thank you vice president. thank you vice president pence. >> that my hope -- >> thank you vice president pence. thank you. senator harris, you are the senator from and attorney general of california. let me ask you a parallel question. if roe v. wade is overturned what would you want california to do? would you want no restrictions on access to abortion and you
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have two minutes uninterrupted. >> first of all, joe biden and i are both people of faith. it is insulting to suggest that we would knock anyone for their faith. and in fact joe, if elected, will be only the second practicing catholic as president of the united states. on the issue of the nomination we are 27 days before the decision about who will be the next president of the united states. you know, before this conversation has come up it has been about election year or election time. we are literally in an election. over 4 million people have voted. people are in the process of voting right now. and so joe has been very clear. let the american people fill the
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seat in the white house and then we will fill the seat on the united states supreme court. to your point, susan, the issues before could not be more serious. i will always fight for a woman's right to make a decision about her own body. and it should be her decision and not donald trump and mike pence. let's look at what else is before the court, the affordable care act. literally in the midst of a public health pandemic when over 210,000 people have died and 7 million people probably have what will be in the future considered a preexisting condition because you contracted the virus. donald trump is in court right now trying to get rid of the affordable care act. i said it before and it bears repeating. this means that there will be no more protections, if they win, for people with preexisting conditions. this means that over 20 million people will lose your coverage.
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it means that if you are under the age of 26, you can't stay on your parents' coverage anymore. here is the thing. the contrast could not be more clear. they are trying to get rid of the affordable care act. joe biden is saying let's expand coverage. let's bring down medicare eligibility to 60. >> thank you senator. >> that is true leadership. >> you know, you mentioned earlier vice president pence that the president was committed to maintaining protections for people with preexisting conditions. and you have this court case you are supporting and the administration is supporting that would strike down the affordable care act. president trump said that he will protect people with preexisting conditions but hasn't explained how he would do that. that was one of the toughest nuts to crack when they were passing the affordable care act. tell us how would your administration protect americans
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with preexisting conditions to have access to affordable insurance if the affordable care act is struck down? >> well, thank you susan. let me just say and addressing your very first question, i could not be more proud to serve as vice president to a president who stands without apology for the sanctity of human life. i am pro-life. i don't apologize for it. this is another case where there is such a dramatic contrast. joe biden and kamala harris support taxpayer funding of abortion all the way up to the moment of birth. late term abortion. they want to increase funding to planned parent hood of america. i would never presume how judge amy coney barrett would rule on the supreme court of the united states. but we will continue to stand strong. when you speak about the supreme court i think the american people deserve an answer senator harris. are you and joe biden going to pack the court if judge amy
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coney barrett is confirmed. we have had 29 vacancies from george washington to barak obama. presidents nominated in all 29 cases. your party is openly advocating adding seats to the supreme court which had nine seats for 150 years if you don't get your way. this is a classic way of if you can't win by the rules you are going to change the rules. you refused to answer the question. joe biden refused to answer the question. i think the american people would like to know. if judge amy coney barrett is confirmed to the supreme court of the nomination are you and joe biden go to pack the supreme court to get your way. >> i am so glad we went through a history lesson. let's go through that more. in 1861 -- i'm speaking. i'm speaking. in 1864 one of the i think
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political heroes, certainly of the president, abraham lincoln. he was up for re-election. it was 27 days before the election. a seat became open on the united states supreme court. abraham lincoln's party was in charge of the white house and the senate. honest abe said it's not the right thing to do. the american people deserve to make the decision about who will be the next president of the united states and then that person can select who will serve for a lifetime on the highest court of the land. joe and i are very clear. the american people are voting right now. and it should be their decision about who will serve on this most important body for a lifetime. >> they would like to know if
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you and joe biden are go to pack the supreme court if you don't get your way in this nomination. >> the non-answer. >> i tried to answer you. >> the straight answer is that they are go to pack the supreme court if they somehow win the election. i have to tell you if you cherish the supreme court and if you cherish the separation of powers you need to reject the biden/harris ticket and re-elect president donald trump and we will stand by that separation of powers. >> let's talk about packing the court then. we are about to. the trump/pence administration, because i senate on a senate judiciary committee, susan, as you mentioned. i witnessed the appointments, lifetime appointments to district courts and courts of appeal. people who are purelyi idfound
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be not competent or substandard. and do you know that of the 50 people who president trump appointed to the court of appeals for lifetime appointments, not one is black. this is what they have been doing. you want to talk about packing the court, let's have the discussion. >> thank you senator. let's go on and talk about the issue of racial justice. >> i want the record to reflect she never answered the question. >> thank you vice president. in march breonna taylor was shot and killed after police officers executing a search warrant in a narcotics investigation broke into her apartment. the police said they identified themselves. taylor's boyfriend said he didn't hear them and used a gun
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registered to him to fire a shot which wounded an officer. the officers fired 20 rounds into the apartment. they said they were acting in self-defense. none have been indicted in connection with her death. senator harris in the case of breonna taylor, was justice done? >> i don't believe so. i talked with breonna's mother and her family. she was a beautiful young woman. she wanted to become a nurse and emt. she wanted to know what is going on out on the streets so she could become a nurse and save lives. her life was taken unjustifyingly and tragically and violently and it brings me to the 8 minutes and 46 seconds america witnessed during which an american man was tortured and
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killed under the knee of an armed uniformed police officer. and people around our country of every race and of every age and every gender. perfect strangers to each other marched, shoulder to shoulder, arm in arm, fighting for us to finally achieve that ideal of equal justice under law. and i was a part of those peaceful protests. and i believe strongly that first of all, we are never going to condone violence, but we always must fight for the values that we hold dear, including the fight to achieve our ideals. that is why joe biden and i have said on the subject. i am a former career prosecutor. i know what i am talking about. bad cops are bad for good cops. we need reform of our policing
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in america and our criminal justice system. that is why joe and i will immediately ban chokeholds. george floyd would be alive today if we did that. we will require a national registry for police officers who break the law. we will unleash a criminal justice reform and get rid of private prisons and cash bail and we will decriminalize marijuana and we will expunge the records of those convicted of marijuana charges. tragic issue of unarmed black people in america. >> thank you senator harris. vice president pence, in the case of breonna taylor, was justice done? you have two minutes uninterrupted. >> our heartbreaks for the loss of an innocent american life and the family of breonna taylor has
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our sympathies. i trust our justice system. a grand jury that refused the evidence. it is remarkable as a former prosecutor you would assume a grand jury looking at all of the evidence got it wrong. you are entitled to your opinion, senator. i think that with regard to george floyd, there is no excuse for what happened to george floyd and justice will be served. there is also no excuse for the rioting and looting that followed. it really is astonishing. two weeks ago i stood at what used to be a salon, burned to the ground by rioters and looters. and she is still trying to put her life back together. i must tell you this presumption that you hear consistently from
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joe biden and kamala harris that america is systemically racist. as joe biden said that he believes law enforcement has an implicit bias against minorities. that is a great insult to the men and women of law enforcement. i want them to know that president trump and i stand with you. and it is remarkable that when senator tim scott tried to pass a police reform bill, brought together republicans and democrats, senator harris, you got up and walked out of the room and filibustered senator tim scott's bill on the senate floor that would individual provided new accountability and resources. we don't have to choose between supporting law enforcement and improving public safety and supporting our african-american minorities and under president trump's leadership.
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we will always stand with law enforcement. >> thank you mr. vice president. mr. vice president, your time is up. thank you vice president. >> i would like to respond. >> senator harris. >> i will not sit here and be lectured by the vice president on what it means to enforce the laws of our country. i am the only one on the stage that personally prosecuted everything from child sexual assault to homicide. i am the only one that prosecuted the big banks for taking advantage of america's home ownerships and i am the only one that prosecuted for profit colleges for taking advantage of our veterans. the reality of this is that we are talking about an election in 27 days where last week the president of the united states took a debate stage in front of 70 million americans and refused to condemn white supremacists. >> not true.
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>> it wasn't like he didn't have a chance. he didn't do it. and then he doubled down. and then he said when pressed stand back, stand by. this is a part of a pattern of donald tru donald trumps. he called mexicans rapists and criminals. he instituted as his first act a muslim ban. on the issue of charlottesville where people were peacefully protesting the need for racial justice where a young woman was killed. and on the other side were neo-nazis carrying tiki torches shouting, anti-semitic slurs and donald trump when asked about it said there were fine people on both sides. this is who we have as the president of the united states.
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america, you deserve better. joe biden will be a president that brings our country together and recognizes the beauty in our diversity and the fact that we all have so much more in common than what separates us. >> vice president, a minute to respond. >> thank you susan. i appreciate that very much. you know, i think that is one of the things that makes people dislike the media so much in this country, susan. you selectively edit, just like senator harris did comments president trump and i on the other side make. after the president made comments about the people on either side of the debate over monuments, he condemned the kkk, neo-nazis and white supremacists and has done so repeatedly. you are concerned he does not condemn neo-nazis. president trump has jewish grandchildren. his daughter and son-in-law are jewish. this is a president that
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respects and cherishes all of the american people. you talk about having personally prosecuted. i am glad you brought up your records. >> thank you. >> i really need to make this point. when you were d.a. in san francisco and when you left office african-americans were 19 times more likely to be prosecuted for minor drug offenses than whites and hispanics. when you were attorney general of california you increased the incarceration of blacks in california. you did nothing on criminal justice reform in california. you didn't lift a finger to pass the first step act in capitol hill. the reality is that your record speaks for itself. president trump -- thank you vice president. thank you sir. thank you. you know there is no more important issue than the final issue that we are going to talk about tonight. that is the issue of the election itself. >> he attacked my record.
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i would like an opportunity to respond. >> let me give you 30 seconds. >> i appreciate that. first of all, having served as the attorney general of the state of california, the work that i did is a model of what our nation needs to do and we will be able to do under a joe biden presidency. our agenda includes what this administration has failed to do. it will be about not only instituting a ban on chokeholds and -- >> these are points you made earlier in the hour. i want to talk about the election. >> i want to talk about the connection between what joe and i will do and my record. that includes i was the first state-wide officer to institute a requirement that my agents would wear body cameras and keep them on full time. we were the first to initiate a requirement for training on law enforcement for implicit bias
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because joe biden and i recognize that implicit bias does exist, mr. vice president, contrary to what you may believe. we did the work of instituting reforms that were about investing in reentry. this is the work we have done and will do going forward. i will not be lectured by the vice president on our record of what we have done in terms of law enforcement and keeping our communities safe and a commitment to reforming the justice system. >> i would like you to respond first to the final topic, the election itself. president trump has several times refused to commit himself to a peaceful transfer of power after the election. if your ticket wins and president trump refuses to accept a peaceful transfer of power what steps would you and vice president biden take? what would happen next? >> i will tell you joe and i are
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particularly proud of the coalition that we have built around the campaign and probably have one of the broadest coalitions of folks you have ever seen in a presidential race. the support of democrats and independents and republicans. seven members of president george w. bush's cabinet are supporting our ticket. we have the president of powell, cindy mccain, over 500 generals and former national security experts and advisors are supporting our campaign. i believe they are doing that because they know that joe biden has a deep, deep-seeded commitment to fight for our democracy and to fight for the integrity of the democracy and to bring integrity back to the white house. we believe in the american people. we believe in our democracy.
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here is what i would like to say to everybody. vote. please vote. vote early. come up with a plan to vote. go to joe biden.com. we have it in our power in the next 27 days to make the decision about what will be the course of our country for the next four years. and it is within our power, and if we use our vote and we use our voice we will win. we will not let anyone subvert our democracy with what donald trump has been doing, as he did on the debate stage last week. in front of 70 million people he openly attempted to suppress the vote. joe biden on the other hand on the same debate stage, because clearly donald trump doesn't think he can run on the record, because it is a failed record. joe biden on the just said please vote. so i will repeat what joe said,
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please vote. >> president trump has several times refused to commitment himself to a peaceful transfer of power. if vice president biden is declared the winner and president trump refuses to accept a peaceful transfer of power, what would be your role and responsibility as vice president? what would you personally do? you have two minutes. >> susan, first i think we are going to win the election. while joe biden and kamala harris rattle off a long litany of establishment in washington d.c. and the establishment joe biden has been a part of for 47 years, president donald trump launched a movement of every day americans from every walk of life. i have every confidence that the same americans that delivered the historic victory in 2016, they see the president's record where we rebuild our military. we revived our economy through tax cuts and rolling back regulation, fighting for fair trade, unleashing american energy. we appointed conservatives to
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the federal courts at every level. we stood with the men and women of law enforcement every day. i think that movement of americans only has grown stronger in the last four years. you talk about accepting the outcome of the election, i must tell you, senator, your party spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last election. it is amazing. when joe biden was vice president of the united states, the fbi spied on president trump and my campaign. there were documents released that the cia made a referral to the fbi documenting the allegations were coming from the hillary clinton campaign. we saw the avalanche with what you put the country through for the better part of three years until it was found that there was no obstruction. no collusion. case closed. and then senator harris you and your colleagues in the congress
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tried to impeach the president of the united states over a phone call. and now hillary clinton said to joe biden that in her words under no circumstances should she concede the election. let me just say, i think we are going to win the election. president trump and i are fighting for allowing joe biden and kamala harris from changing the rules. we have a free and fair election, we know we will have confidence in had it and i believe in my heart that president trump will be reelected for four more years. >> the final question of the debate i would like to read a question someone else wrote. the utah debate commission asked students in the state to write essays about what they would like to ask you. i will ask the question posed by brecklin brown, an eighth grader
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in springville, utah. when i watch the news all i see is arguing between democrats and republicans. when i watch the news all i see is citizen fighting against citizen. when i watch the news all i see are two candidates from opposing parties trying to tear each other down. if our leaders can't get along how are the citizens supposed to get along? and then she added your examples could make all of the difference to bring us together. to each of you i would like to take one minute and respond. vice president pence. you have one minute. >> it is a wonderful question. let me commend you for taking an interest in public life. i started following the news when i was very young. and in america we believe in a free and open exchange of debate. we celebrate that. that is how we created literally
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the freest and the most prosperous nation in the world. i would tell you that don't assume what you are seeing on your local news networks s is american people. i look at ruth bader ginsburg, the late justice we lost in the supreme court and the late justice scalia. they were on polar opposites. one very liberal. one very conservative. what has been learned is that the two of them and their families were the very closest of friends. here in america, we can disagree and debate vigorously as senator harris and i did tonight. when the debate is over we come together as americans. that is what people do in big cities and small towns across the country. i want to encourage you.
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i want to tell you we are going to work every day to have government as good as the people each and every day. we love a good debate and good argument but we always come together and are always there for each other in times of need and we have especially learned that through the difficulties of this year. >> senator harris, what would you say? first of all, i love hearing from our young leaders. when i hear your words, brecklin, i know your future is bright. it is that perspective is that a sign of leadership. that brings me to joe. joe biden one of the reasons joe decided to run for president after charlottesville, which we talked about earlier. it so troubled him and upset him like it did all of us, that
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there was that hate and that division. what propelled joe to run for president is to see the course of the last four year what is brecklin has described has been happening. joe has worked across the aisle in a bipartisan way and that is what he will do as president. joe biden has a history of lifting people up. joe has known pain. he has known suffering. he has known love. when you think about the future, i dobl the future is bright. it will be because of your leadership and that we fight for the vote and through the election. you have the ability to
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determine the future of the country and whats it leadership looks like. >> thank up senator harris. thank you vice president pence. thank you for being with us tonight. we want to thank the university of utah fors it hospitality and most of all our thanks to all of the americans that watched the debate tonight. our best wishes for a quick recovery to president trump, the first lady and everyone who is battling covid-19. the second presidential debate is next week on october 15th, a town hall style debate in miami. we hope you will join us then. good evening. >> following the first and only vice presidential debate of this cycle. this will be an interesting turn
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of events to watch as both candidates are joined on stage by their spouses, both of them flanking moderator, susan paige. kamala harris set the tone about the administration's coronavirus response calling it the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. indeed mike pence had a tough job with a losing argument. the death toll tonight climbed north of 210,000 of our federal citizens. mike pence said tonight from the stage that donald trump has put the health of americans first. death toll numbers notwithstanding. he accused democrats of playing politicals with peoples' lives, death toll numbers notwithstanding. social media held their own
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viewing party and on social media tonight the talk was about, and i believe that -- and the fly that hung out on the vice president for a good period of time. headline issued by "the new york post" about that. indeed the republican, bill crystal has awarded second place, after kamala harris to the fly in this debate. but that borders on the silly. as a viewing event a whole lot of people complaining about mike pence's inability or lack of desire to take a wrap and finish up his answers. a time disparity noted by so many people watching. we will check the math. but i digress to my friends watching along with us. take it away. >> you know, i will say that what brian was just saying about
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the fly. they were visually distracting and strange things. i don't think we need to dwell on them. those were the oddities. something going on with mike pence's eye and the fly that nested in his hair quite comfortably for the length of an entire question. other than that a visit to normal politics land. fine and expected when it comes to senator harris who has been a mainstream democratic politician her life. mike pence was visiting from another world in which the donald trump presidency is from a normal presidency and he was defending it under normal terms. that would have made for a debate but it is not the
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presidency we all lived through. he was defending something nothing like what we have lived through. >> yeah. >> trying to talk senator harris into the idea that she is the one that represents a significant departure from american norms that he and donald trump represent. i don't think the debate will move the debate either way. i don't think either candidate surprised. the surprise was in the distance, i think, between what vice president pence was defending. >> yeah. if it does anything i think the one thing that it could do is cement donald trump's biggest problem. his biggest problem is with suburban women. any woman that has been repeatedly interrupted in a meeting or not been allowed to finish a sentence. who had a man refuse to follow the rules. and just blow past whatever the
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norms and the guard rails are supposed to be. when you attempt to do the same they are mowed down. just watch mike pence do a softer version of what donald trump did last week. he repeatedly interrupted her. he repeatedly interrupted the other woman in the room, the moderator who seemed to lose control of him. he continually demanded kamala harris answer his questions. she wasn't there to answer his questions. she wasn't there to do whatever it is that mike pence told her to do. she was there to talk to the american people and answer susan paige's questions. she would continually look at him and say i am talking. i am speaking. give that look everybody with a black mama recognizes was usually the prelude to a problem. i recognized it.
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i think that look and that moment and that sequence of events was very bad for donald trump. the one thing that pence was supposed to do and what he did in 2016 is to soften donald trump for white women voters. but, you know, to get white suburban women to consider maybe not abandoning him that voted for him before. this did not help. >> the only time these debates have mattered are when the presidential candidate has stumbled dramatically. vice president's cheney's performance mattered in 2004 because bush bombed so badly. vice president biden's performance i would say mattered in 2012 because obama didn't see that interested. this could have mattered. i don't think it did. the women are gone. the collapse trump is seeing in the polling is because white
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college educated and all white women fled the ticket. the problem tonight is that mike pence appeared flaccid and anemic and that will hurt him with men. the only people they have in their coalition after last week's barn burner from trump were the grievance voter that is a vocal and animated part of the trump base. this will not land well with them. the only time he sprung to life. it is all about whether or not the steroid rage or donald trump feeling grumpy about the polls. i think there are going to be questions if he is not feeling that great after this performance. the only time he came to life is when he prosecutored senator harris for not answering his question and he didn't respond in full to a single question from the moderator. think about where the polls are
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right now. they are on defense. the first two questions are about covid. they are down double digits on covid. the thirded is about the economy. down two points nationally on the economy. they didn't get themselves on offense in any structural way. >> we knew covid would be the heart of the debate. starting with that and that went beyond the first ten minutes of the debate with that. i thought the questions were well framed. i thought that the answers from senator harris were devastating. she essentially gave an opening statement in the first question, the greatest failure of any presidential administration in u.s. history and ran through it at the very start of the debate. i think we ended with the stunt question in terms of the eighth grader that submitted something and gave them both a chance to emote. the rest of it came through as mush. i do think a lot of the reason
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is because we have the structural issue of pence constantly droning on and trying to steamroll his opponent and the moderator and him being very low energy, drony, talking points, condescending and unappealing and as you say, flaccid. >> that is not what they needed. they needed him to come out. here is the other things on voters minds what if trump takes a turn for the worse and this guy takes over. he just looked lame. >> there were -- >> she kept saying joe and i. he talked to trump like -- by pence's own description he spends a ton of time in the oval office. he never referred to him as donald or karen and i had dinner
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with mel and i. he kept distance. >> you can't talk tonight about being in the oval office. >> shouldn't you be in quarantine. >> he seemed to be speaking past donald trump. i had steve schmidt on the show at 7:00. he made a point that stuck with me that pence is already putting files in for his own future. there is a story that is circulating that republicans are taking in. they are internalizing the fact they are going to lose the senate and a lot of them are thinking will a university hire me. what am i go to do with my life. seemed like pence was trying to pretend donald trump in a sense does not exist and that there is a normal party. you seem like a nice lady. why do you have to be so mean. why won't you accept the vaccine and he can inherit a normal party again. we know the building outside of him is burning.
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it is like he is a guy in a building in a fire that does not understand there is a fire. >> he is defending a normal republican presidency. that is not what we are experiencing. >> i continuing ties into why the most animated that we saw him and the only time that he changed his body posture. he didn't move the fly. here is the reason the fly is a thing. politics are hard to get into. if your way is in there is a fly. he didn't shoo the fly. i thought kamala harris would. he was so still. he didn't get rid of the fly. the fly left him when it got bored. the only time he moved his body in the chair is when he talked about the supreme court. and if he is thinking, and let's just say it. they are all thinking about what they are going to do when trump loses. we have said it every time and will say it until election day
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that it can change in a nanosecond. >> one russian hack and an assist from vladimir putin away from something different happening. but right now they are all thinking about that. you can see him taking on a roll in a pro-life foundation. the most he had to say. the most excited he got tonight. the only time he would have moved in a way that would have told the fly to come back. >> still trying to deny amy coney barrett would be a vote to overturn roe v. wade. >> trump promised that he wouldn't put anybody -- >> in all of his solitude and not being able to shoo the fly. he didn't commit to a peaceful transfer of power anymore than trump did. >> he talked about mail-in ballots being full of fraud. and speaking to the eighth grader at the end he did a whole fake news thing.
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>> fake news and the fraudulent ballots at the end. i want to bring in our colleagu colleagues. both of you, thank you for watching. claire, i have to ask you first, your overall impression? >> let me start with pence. he was patronizing which drove all of the women crazy. he was boring which lost most of the men. so i don't think he gained any ground, and boy did he need to. kamala on the other hand was strong, in command and she had a hint of joy. there is something about kamala that connects with people because you sense that there is joyfulness in her spirit. and this country needs that right now. i thought she showed off her foreign policy chops in a very
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strong way. i think she did a good job acquainting the country with who she is and where she came from. i really do think that what she needed tonight is for the united states of america to be comfortable with kamala harris. i think she accomplished that tonight. i am not sure it moves the polls in any way but underneath it was a better night for kamala harris than it was for mike pence. if you have a preexisting condition, they are coming for you. if you are 26 on your parents' health insurance, they are coming from you. that was a moment where it was prosecutor harris and also a thing that you would remember from that moment. what did you think about moments like that and the type of the performance that senator harris put in all together? >> i thought that was a defining moment and it really, i think,
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it stung a little bit more than probably pence thought it would. she did prosecutor it. there were times she backed off of prosecutoring a point or two, i thought, when she could have leaned in a little bit harder. particularly on the handling of covid-19. as well as a couple of others. overall, i think she did well and she stayed out of the traps that were set. however, the fact of the matter is and i hope i had a chance to say it earlier when we were together. the one thing about pence, knowing him as i do and having worked with him and seeing his type of a politician before, that whole awe, shucks, let me check with my wife stuff is killer in a debate. it pulls you into conversations that has nothing to do with the
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questions that is asked. he doesn't answer the questions. we saw it several times. i was screaming at the television on the whole piece at the end where he was asked directly about the administration's effort to eliminate the preexisting condition and what did he do. he turned to kamala and asked her a question about stacking the court. she fell into the trap. she answered his question. then the moderator moved on afterwards and he never addressed the fact that the administration right now is trying to eliminate the very thing holding life and limb together for countless families across america. say what you want about mike pence, he did what he had to do on a number of levels. he did what the president didn't do and that is to prosecute the obama-biden administration on a number of fronts. he did the thing that was
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expected of him with his base. i agree with the senator. it does not change a lot in the formulation of things. but in terms of the debate performance and what was expected, i think he came into the game and he and did the lift that trump didn't do last week. and kamala had easier task. what she had to do was make sure what joe biden wanted to get said and done from last week, got said. which it did. she did so in a way that was commanding, thoughtful of the process, lot of times thought going to lean across the plexiglass and smack the you know what out of him for interrupting him. like my friend said, you saw the look, right? i'm going to give credit where it's due both sides tonight. these candidates represented
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their teams the way they needed to. i think that was particularly important for pence given the performance of the president last week. >> and i know michael's wife, probably gets that look every so often. >> all the time! >> the fear is palpable from here actually. getting a little scared. >> do you think this was a performance -- talking about political subtleties and pence skill set that donald trump doesn't appreciate those sort of tools in the toolbox. i thought this was lifeless performance from pence. i don't know that someone like donald trump, literally a caged patient if nothing else, is going to be animated by subtleties in the performance you spoke to. >> i agree with that. in some respects the president was probably reeling in whatever chair he's sitting in. but fact of the matter is -- and i take some -- give credit to the point made earlier.
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maybe he wasn't feeling all that well. there were a couple of moments where it came across there was something else going on. but that's also pence's style. he's not the most animated person in the world. he's very slow and deliberate and methodical in his speech. very careful. and at one point, going back to earlier conversation, rachel, about the cake, oh, my god, there was so much syrup coming out of pence tonight, i don't have to buy another bottle of syrup for a lifetime given what this guy was spewing. but that's his style. he slows it down. like a football game. team comes out and wants to score, boom, boom, boom. other team wants to slow the pace down because that's how they score their points. that's essentially what he tried to do, slow the pace down, thinking that kamala would be more prosecutorial and anticipating that, taking air
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out of the room early, which he did effectively. >> soporific style does run out the clock and you get to stammer your way through whatever you want to talk about until somebody forgets the question. good tactic but super boring and hard to keep people focused on you. question after question. control room, i haven't run this by you, so unfair, can you cue up 14, runs -- senator mccaskill run this by you, senator harris's style, people comfortable with her. in the covid section of the debate. like to play this and get your response, how this worked tactically and whether it resonates. >> for life to get back to normal, dr. anthony fauci and
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other experts say those who need to be vaccinated have to be vaccinated but half the people say won't take the vaccine. if dr. fauci tells us to take us, i'm taking it, absolutely. if donald trump tells us to take it, i'm not taking it. >> what did you think of that moment? >> pitch perfect. sometimes short answers in debates have so much more effective than droning on and then, the american people -- she really hit the point right on the head. if doctors and experts say it's safe, she's first in line. and by doing that, what she was saying to everyone, we all know that trump is not listening to the doctors and experts. said it in way that didn't attack the president but it really was effective at attacking the president. i thought it was very, very well done. >> senator, do you think overall
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that this isn't going to adjust the trajectory? pence and trump are behind in national polling and swing state polling. they needed things to change more than harris and biden did, but either of the tickets? >> don't want to repeat what i said before but bears underlining. everybody in america knows these are two older candidates and everybody in america knows in this particular election maybe more than other elections we've had in this country, knowing that person that's vice president can do the job is important. most americans are not familiar with kamala harris. they've seen her since she got nominated but never really in this environment, particularly those people who don't watch primary debates, and those are the voters, sliver left out there that could go either way, those are the people that watch
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general election debates. so she needed to accomplish something tonight to make people comfortable with the idea that she is capable of doing the job of vice president, by its very definition means she's capable of becoming president if that moment would come. >> yeah. >> can i just say though to clare's point, the opposite is also true. she understood the importance of that question and answered it earn easterly, trying to articulate why the vice president chose her and detailing her qualifications. mike pence was asked the same question, didn't give them a different version. president of the united states is sick, undergoing experimental regimen of drugs that has white house sources saying things to the "times" and "post" whether it's causing problems. he still has the nuclear codes. didn't transfer them to pence.
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when asked to reassure the public, have you had chatted about his age -- >> presidential disability. >> hospitalized, flown by helicopter because the condition was so grave in words of his chief of staff. he didn't dignify the question. and trump supporters deserve honest answer from trump and pence whether they've had conversation under which circumstances pence would step in. doesn't mean that trump isn't president, that exists in the constitution. when bush had colonoscopy and dick cheney for a half second. they don't respect their own supporters enough to tell them the truth about donald trump's health. >> wish there had been harder push rather than positing the questions and letting both
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candidates run off wherever they wanted to be. >> and pence didn't have to be there, his aide and -- tested positive for coronavirus, mocked the fact there were barriers. pence didn't seem to take his own health seriously. given he's next in line if anything were to happen to the president, didn't take it seriously he needs to guard his health. i don't understand why he couldn't have stayed in washington and done this by remote. >> and also wife didn't wear a mask on stage at the end. >> bizarre. >> you could save lives if you would do that and might be saving somebody's life in the room right now if your husband was exposed to covid infected person in last week. which he was. sorry. >> no. even now, no one with more influence over trump's base than donald trump. maybe mike pence second in line. fact they could have saved lives
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by modeling that behavior because his base will do whatever he says. if he said wear a mask that says i hate democrats on it, they would have done it and lot of people would still be alive. i want to ask off this topic, a couple of points, as someone from one of the midwestern states where -- i don't believe in conversion, doubt seriously how many people will leave trump. but steve kornacki has made it clear there are bits shaving off the base, particularly white working-class women and some men, drifting down a little bit and those matter in elections. couple of points. kamala harris saying that donald trump only judges the economy based on how rich people are doing. there was part where she really zeroed in on the number of job losses and number of manufacturing job losses. and there was part where she asked who does he owe money to,
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and stuff about the troops. do you think those points resonate at this stage? >> absolutely. i thought particularly she was effective on pointing out the debt that he has and american people have a right to know. and i thought one of her most effective moments in the debate was saying you lost the trade war with china. you have a trade war and you lost it. then she went on to enumerate the facts, how they had lost this trade war. so i think all of those -- she was prepared. and didn't look like she was working at it. she had a command of it. and that's where that eej othos strength came from, all this knowledge to bring to the debate. all very well done. and think most people would agree, regardless, especially if they didn't -- just watching blind and didn't assia

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