tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 11, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
holding hands in swim trunks in their national flags. "all in" with kris hayes starts -- tick, tick, tick, in like ten seconds, now. tonight on "all in" -- >> they ought to investigate adam schiff for leaking that information. he should not be leaking information. >> abuse of power play on a scale we may not have seen before. >> this is the type of stuff that vladimir putin does to alexei navalny. >> donald trump's doj is caught spying on political opponents. tonight, what we're learning one day later. the urgent need to hold all the former president's men accountable with one of trump's targets, congressman eric swalwell. then as merrick garland vows, what we know that the conspiracy charges from militia members
seen with roger stone one day before the insurrection. "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. what do you do with a person who abuses their position of authority? elemental question. in the history of human government and human affairs, a question our country has been confronting persistently since long before donald trump but even more consistent since then. today as we look at the scope of the abuse of power that occurred under the former president, we are seeing an anxious to that very question and it comes from republicans. not the ones in the nation's capitol, with the chieftain of mar-a-lago. rather from the state of oregon. state lawmakers confronted the same question that we are now confronting as a society. the same that republicans and democrats alike confronted at the nation's capitol on january 6th. how to deal with a person who
has egregiously abused their power. a person who has transgressed. in this case, it was one have their own. republican state representative mike who was caught on surveillance video, opening the door of the capitol to let in a mob last december. that mob which was allegedly upset about coronavirus restrictions in the state, then managed to overcome officers and invade the building. someone carried guns and bear spray and called for the arrest of governor brown. then another video emerged just a few days before the mob reached the capitol. join mike, explaining how he would let protesters into the building. >> we're setting up operation hall pass which i don't know anything about and if you accuse me of knowing something about it, i'll deny it. but there will be some person's cell phone which might be 971 -- [ bleep ] that was a random number. that's not anybody's actual cell phone. if you say i'm at the west
entrance and text that number, that somebody might exit that door while you're standing there. i don't know anything about that. i don't have anything to do with that. and if i did, i wouldn't say that i did. >> yesterday, he faced a vote on expelling him from the oregon legislature. i have to say, given the politics of the republican party right now, i didn't know which way the vote would go. ahead of the vote, he defended himself doing his best tucker carlson impression. >> considering expelling a member for the first time in history because he thinks that people should have access to their capitol, especially during session. after the session, we're all going out to dinner or stop at the grocery store or maybe tomorrow we'll shop and buy clothes or get our oil changed, because all these places are open but not this building. >> oh, you're persecuting me because i want people to be in the capitol. that ridiculous excuse didn't work. the resolution to expel him passed 59-1 with only nearman
voting to save himself. he was formally expelled from the oregon legislature. and that is an example of tangible accountability for a wild transgression. and i bring you this story tonight because it is note worthy and newsworthy but also because, boy, is it rare, huh? you probably have to go all the way back to richard nixon to find another u.s. president who abused his authority at the scope and scale of donald trump. and richard nixon did face some accountability. he was forced to resign from office after the house judiciary committee documented three articles of impeachment against him. even though president gerald ford pardoned him in a wildly unpopular move, many people in richard nixon's orbit were held accountable for their actions. all of these people were prosecuted and served time in the wake of watergate scandal. it includes his personal counsel and attorney, even his attorney general, john mitchell. >> given the circumstances,
mitchell was in a relatively good mood as he arrived at the prison. all mitchell said was, it is nice to be back in alabama. he is assured of staying in alabama at least 20 months. that's how long it will be before he's eligible for parole from his sentence of two and a half two eight years. during the time he is here in this minimum security prison, officials say mitchell will be treated the same as any other prisoner. so john mitchell, former u.s. attorney general, is wearing prison clothes now. >> the reckoning and the accountability didn't stop there. across the nation from letters to congress and the media and every day citizens, the civic spirit of the time was that what happened in the nixon presidency was so horrifying and aberrant, it must be a symptom of a broken system and it had to be reformed and fixed lest it happen again. so an incredible wave again. there was the church committee led by senator frank church of
idaho that looked into the secretive doings of the cia and fbi and found the agencies were spying on americans and running rough shod all over the world and at home. in 1974 we saw the beginning of finance reform after so much of the water watergate skanl was slush funds with shady don'tors being moved back and forth. in 1978, president jimmy carter signed a new law littling electronic surveillance. the foreign intelligence surveillance act, fisa. you probably heard about it. all of this, the entire structure for oversite for all of this was affected. and the wake of more revelations about the trump presidency, it is hard to say it held firm. we clearly need another round of reform. we need more accountability for those who have done wrong, those who have transgressed and we need to protect our government against future would be donald trumps. including this donald trump. that is what the "boston globe"
editorial board is doing, it is called future-proofing the presidency. it is arguing that allowing him to go unpunished could set a far more dangerous precedent than having trump stand trial. to reform the presidency so the last four years are never repeated, the country must go beyond passing laws. not even the president is above them. this come in the wake of "the new york times" report yesterday revealing that prosecutors subpoenaed apple for data in the accounts of at least two democrats with aides and family members. one was a minor. all told the records of at least a dozen people were seized in 2017 and early 2018 including those of representative adam schiff and eric swalwell in california who said in an interview thursday night his data had been subpoena. we know the trump doj seized phone records of reporters at
the "new york times," cnn, the "washington post," imposed a gag order on cnn and the "times." when you put all this together, eric schiff, eric swalwell, staffers, family member, a minor, "the new york times," cnn, the "washington post," it reads like an enemies list, right? richard nixon notoriously also kept a list of enemies and used the government to spy on them. now, let's be clear. the trump administration as far as we know from the reporting we have so far appears to have gotten through quote unquote proper channels. to stay doj issued subpoenas, he didn't have henchmen breaking into his therapyist's office like donald trump did. we can how donald trump behaved, even if they went through proper channels, this is almost exactly what it looks like. now considering there's revelation in the state of democracy, consider that there's been neither accountability nor reform for any of the
characters. for obvious reasons, it cannot stand. cannot go on like this. the abuses were so great, the threat to the country's rule of law, the democratic self-governance so severe torsion let it go unrecognized and unreckoned with will bring some cataclysm. it is honestly a question of when. it is the job of everyone in power, democrats, republicans alike, though i don't have much faith, to get to the bottom of what happened in toto. to hold people to account across the various areas of wrongdoing and implement the reforms needed to make sure it doesn't happen again. congressman eric swalwell of california investigated, he prosecuted as an impeachment manager in the second impeachment trial, and he said he was one of the people whose records were secretly seized. good to have you, congressman. maybe let's just start on the kind of the matter here. what were you notified and by
whom when? >> good evening. it was a random may 5 email from apple that i almost deleted, saying this was a customer service notice that your data was turned over and i read it. and at first, i really did think it was spam. but the words, department of justice left off the screen, and i talked with our house intelligence staff and of course, others had also received the same notice. and we have since learned as "the new york times" reported that there were a number of staffers and congressman schiff and i who were targeted. this is not about adam schiff and myself. it is about a president rewarding his friends corruptly through department. justice as did he with michael flynn and roger stone, and punishing his perceived enemies. and my fear is that he may not have been successful this time and locking up his perceived
enemies, but a more corrupt or donald trump in the white house again may just skim the department of justice and its processes and just order his lieutenants to lock up his political opponents. >> yeah. that's the crux of it. when you hear this news, it went through proper channels, that's both at some level, i guess, like there is some check there but also disturbing that there were people inside the justice department that went along with this operation. >> that's why i support adam schiff's call for inspector general reports, an investigation to understand not only was this bill barr, jeff sessions and matt whiter can, whoever was in charge at the time, but what prosecutors went along with this and under what environment did they not think it was okay to resist having the communication records of a
co-equal branch of government surveiled? i'm not above the law. adam schiff is not above the law. to me, knowing certainly, i've never leaked classified information and there was no reason to believe i would have. to do this, it seems punitive but it seems as part of a pattern of donald trump abusing the department of justice to go after his enemies. >> it appears there will be an inspector general report. but i want to read this to you. i hesitate to tell other chamber how to conduct its business but since we are in a 50-50 senate and can't issue subpoenas without republicans, i respectfully ask the house to not have investigations but rather do it themselves. >> i like senator schatz. i know chairman schiff and chairman nadler and the speaker,
we're not helpless anymore, certainly not in the house of representatives. i think we've shown through two impeachments a willingness to hold donald trump accountable. i want the public to understand, this is not a 500-year flood. donald trump thinks he will be reinstated in august. he is running for re-election in 2024. you have a number of want a be donald trumps who are probably just as corrupt and even more competent. so we could really see the complete erosion of the rule of law in our country. >> this is an incredible irony here. it harkens back to what i was saying about rebalancing power, a huge part of what that nixon, post nixon era looks like. there was this moving power back. but there is an incredible irony here, having already secretly
subpoenaed members of congress and their stats and acquiring the data, when the house subpoenaed donald trump and people in his orbit, they basically successfully stalled for years in court. they got the supreme court to more or less ratify a gutting of that house subpoena power while the executive was able to go in and get the phone records from apple. >> that's a great point, chris. they put themselves as a co-equal branch on higher ground than us. and they stymied our investigation into don mcgahn with the russia report, as we are seeing with other investigations, we are still waiting for supreme court rulings. and also, you know, donald trump as he was projecting against adam schiff calling him a leaker. it was actually, we learned in the transcripts, it was don mcgahn with respect to russia who was leaking. while this was a national security investigation, the real national security concerns were what was michael flynn talking
about with the russians, and what was donald trump doing with himself and his family with the russians? i will defend to the day that i die the investigation that we did on russia that showed that donald trump planned for, benefited from and received help from the russians, and his response to that as i am, it was punitive, retaliatory, i don't think it will stand the constitutional and legal scrutiny of that. it better come upon it soon. >> all right, eric swalwell, thank you for making time for us. >> my thanks. this is the editorial page editor for the "boston globe." titled future proofing the presidency. there is only one way left to restore deterrence. the justice department must abandon two centuries of tradition by indicting and prosecuting donald trump for his comeback to office. and an assistant special
watergate prosecutor where he specifically investigated president nixon's abuse of federal agencies to go after people on his enemies list and both join me now. pete, let me start with you. i like what you're doing. i like the sort of clarity of the call here. why did you take this project on? why are you writing this and why do you think it is important? >> well, look, chris. as it stands right now, to paraphrase a certain hollywood access video, the message to the american public is if you're a president, when you're president, they'll let you do it. by it, i mean break the law, abuse the power of the presidency to enrich yourself and your family, obstruct investigations into foreign interference in u.s. elections, subvert democracy by undermining the results of a legitimate election, incite violence at the u.s. capitol. there has been no accountability, no reform that addresses what donald trump did in office and really the weak knows he exposed and the
foundation of our democracy and the constitution, in that system of checks and balances, the fact that impeachment did not prove to be a powerful enough tool for a truly shameless president and the republican party willing to protect him in the senate and failing to remove him. the question before the country right now that we wanted to address is the question we wanted to put before the country. is, are we going to learn the hard truths of the trump presidency and make the needed reforms? is go congress going to make needed reforms? is the d offer j going to prosecute donald trump for the abuses of power? for the laws he broke while in the oval office? or are we going to leave our democracy vulnerable to would be dictators? >> yeah. i think that's precisely the question. i think that the answer tom comes from a variety of different corners of american institutional land scape. nick, i mean, you lived this and
i did not. and i have read a lot about it and like reading a lot about it. my first thought was, wow, this really does feel nixonian. this is what the adjective was made for. put in context what you were studying back then and what your reaction to learning about what the justice department is up to here is. >> well, this just seemed like repeat of history. this all started basically with an obsession of richard nixon of leaks that were going on, just like with donald trump with leaks about michael flynn and about his national security adviser and what was going on with comey. this led to them actually taking action, investigations that morphed into really going after their enemies and trying to put
together what was supposed to be a legitimate investigation, turned into essentially a political hunt to try to find dirt on their opponents. and that's what richard nixon wound up doing. he used the irs to do that, other federal agencies. there were some democrats that were able to stand up to them and didn't do what em, much like mcgahn, basically told trump, look, i'll do it, i'll take care of it but he never did anything. but there were people who did. obviously here, there were subpoenas that were served. there was information that was gathered. and it is pretty cheer that his attorney general after sessions, the first attorney general, decided not to do anything with this, that trump prevailed on barr to resurrect this
investigation and to continue to get information from apple about two congressmen that trump clearly had a vendetta against. so there really does have to be accountability here. >> to nick's point here, nixon used a bunch of federal agencies, pulling people's taxes at the irs. and one of the things that comes out of that in a church committee is sort of like the scale of the secret state, and the surveillance state and all the ways that it can get into americans' lives. it seems like the point here seems to be the justice department. the thing that we're flirting dangerously with is a president who says, day one, the attorney general, go prosecute all those people. go put my political enemies in jail. that's the red line that we've edged very close to.
>> quite a few red lines. certainly the abuse of the power like paul manafort, the campaign chair, who didn't cooperate with prosecutors, lied to federal prosecutors, also abusing the power of the presidency to enrich himself and his family. while that was not necessarily in and of itself a threat to democracy, the nepotism involved. in presidency, the lack of checks it exposed, it just deeply exposed problems with the norms that we have and even the existing laws that we have as checks on the presidency, when we're not willing to enforce those norms, and i think the lesson of the church committee ought to be documented here. that congress ought to look systematically, and this is laid out, at all the ways that existing laws need to be shored up. new laws need to be articulated and particularly, accountability needs to be delivered through the justice system for donald trump and perhaps more of his
colleagues. >> thank you both. so. that was great. >> thank you. whatever we do about the crime of trump while he was in office, there's still an ongoing situation at the department of justice every day. who knows how many people still working there were involved in this corrupt leak investigation? what needs to be done to clean house? next. one to clean house? next that new dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. hearing is important to living life to the fullest. that's why inside every miracle-ear store, you'll find better cheers with your favorite fans. you'll find a better life is in store at miracle-ear, when you experience the exclusive miracle-ear advantage. our team is devoted to your care, with free service adjustments and cleaning of your miracle-ear hearing aids for life. we're so confident we can improve your life, we're offering a 30-day risk-free trial. call 1-800-miracle today and experience
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representatives, staffers, has triggered blowback from both inside and outside that department. less than 24 hours after the story was first reported, the doj office of the inspector general announced it would review the matter. while chuck schumer and dick durbin threatened to subpoena former attorneys general about the investigations. the thing is according to the "new york times," at least four doj officials are still at the justice department. that is not lost that the targets of this whole thing, congressman adam schiff. >> that i think the attorney general has an obligation to clean house, to essentially understand exactly what the department was doing in the last four years. make sure that there's accountability for those engaged in political and partisan investigations within the department. >> an opinion piece, paul butler argues the best way for the
attorney general eric garland is to stop defending his predecessor. now the professor of law joining me now. take us through your argument, paul. >> so chris, there are two major issues. the first is why sessions and barr's justice department went after trump's political enemies. was there a reason to seek this very personal date about congress people? their staff, their families? . in famous exchange when then senator harris asked attorney general barr if trump had ever directed him to investigate somebody, barr's answer, the answer of any prosecutor with integrity should have been, hell no. because i would have quit. instead, barr hemmed and hawed about this word and that word. that was revealing. it raised the distinct
possibility that barr was willing to weaponize to go after trump's political enemies and that's where we are now. so chris, the other major issue is what the biden justice department is going to do about this. so far, we see this pattern of protecting the trump justice department. but that's starting to look more and more the same as protecting corruption. >> so this is the sort of institutionalist paradox that i think garland finds himself in. which is, some of the norms eroded by the department of justice. i think two were the independent department taking orders from the white house directly, a, and b, abandoning continuity and how the department did its business, continuity in the positions it took, the cases it took. so you come and you think, well, we want to restore those norms so we'll be independent and not
let the white house tell us what to do and we'll go back to more continuity. we'll take the same position of the trump justice department on the lawsuit. but that itself is the problem, it seems to me. >> that's exactly right. chris, i'm a proud alumni of the department of justice and i respect the attorney general's institutional commitments. but when biden was running, he said that the trump administration was the most corrupt in modern history. and biden's justice department has not responded by fighting for transparency and accountability, and i understand merrick garland's wish to look forward, not backward, not to substitute trump's lock her up with biden's lock him up. but looking -- >> right. >> backwards, not looking backwards, that's a dangerous approach that people are allowed to subvert the constitution with
no consequences. >> yeah. that's very well said. and i think this is going to -- i think this will come to a head. there will be some choices that have to be made as we go forward. a lot riding on those choices made by the attorney general. paul butler, thank you. >> thank you. >> there's still so much we don't know about who is targeted by trump's justice department, who knew what about it. that's next. i've got the brains you've got the looks♪ ♪let's make lots of money♪ ♪you've got the brawn♪ ♪i've got the brains♪ ♪let's make lots of♪ ♪uh uh uh♪ ♪oohhh there's a lot of opportunities♪ with allstate, drivers who switched saved over $700. saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate click or call to switch today. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with.
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and so i ask myself the question, like, "why even get the vaccine, if it can also harm you?" for me, it's like taking a 50/50 chance. hi andrea. some say that the vaccine is harmful or that it might not work, but that's not true. millions of people have been vaccinated with no ill effects. and i can tell you that getting the vaccine is far safer than not getting it. it's been nearly 24 hours since we got this report about trump's abuse of power justice department. there's a lot we don't know. just listen to these two excerpts from the article. in 2017 and 2018, a grand jury subpoenaed apple for the records of the people associated with the intelligence committee. they learned about most of the subpoenas last month when apple informed them that the records had been shared. it was not clear why family members or children were
involved but the investigators could have sought them because they are linked or in theory, the parent were using the children's phones or computers to have contact with journalists. so exactly how many democratic records were secretly seized? why were their families and children drawn into there? and were any republicans investigated? was this an explicit request from president trump? and at a higher level, what does all this mean for the justice department going forward? betsy a national correspondent for politico and just published an article in which william barr denied knowing anything, saying he didn't recall, hmm, getting briefed on the moves. she joins me now. betsy, there has been a lot of, well, cya spinning from william barr and jeff sessions which suggests to me that they at least understand, this doesn't look great. >> you know you're dealing with a big mess when barr and sessions don't want to touch it.
barr, of course, famously is no shrinking violet whatsoever when it came to defending some of the most controversial moves that the trump white house and the trump doj made, that just about everyone else agreed were dramatically encroaching on the justice department's independence. if barr doesn't want to defend something the doj did, that means you got a problem. now, he narrowly was speaking about this issue of subpoenaing two lawmakers' records when he didn't speak about more broadly was the wider topic of leak probes. one thing important to remember when the question comes up of whether or not the president asked for these investigations is that what we don't know what he asked for privately, we do know that he did ask for them because he tweeted about them ceaselessly. just look back through the president's public twitter account, which sometimes i think tweets are like performance art or it didn't matter. everyone was reading they will.
senior doj officials were reading them and scratching their heads and thinking, why is the president tweeting a picture of me behind prison bars. and the president explicitly tweeted that schiff needed to be investigated for leaking. he explicitly said schiff was illegally leaking classified material. so that question has been answered. trump wanted these investigations to happen. the only question is which of the tippy top people at the doj, the top officials, got this request and that, no problem, feel free to scoop up as much schiff and swalwell stuff that you need. >> that's so great. the trump question is asked and answered, constantly, constantly, constantly. you're right. that's a great point it is and not theoretical. then the question is, there's a few things. there is a great mary mccourt
quote, she was takt head of doj's national security division until 2017 who said under department practice, any investigation into an electricitied official would have been considered a sensitive matter that would have required high level approval. whether this was an investigation into an elected official or it was just scooped up in it, that might matter for who was getting briefed. but you have to imagine, this is getting run up the chain at the point where you're going to apple and they're handing you meta data from the ranking member of the house intelligence committee. >> the laws of physics do not preclude that it got run up the chain. if it didn't get run up the chain, i would be flabbergasted. this is exactly the thing doj officials have jobs to deal with. the most plausible defense that sessions's allies could make would be that if this particular leak probe involved the russia investigation, russia's then
ambassador to the united states, it's possible that sessions could have been recused. if that's the case, and we don't know, if that is the case, the next personal who would have signed off on it would be rod rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, also a truppe appointee and went from something like a resistance celebrity to toward the end of his time there, really drawing substantial and sustained criticism from many folks, particularly, congressional democrats who felt he was a significant disappointment. >> final point and quickly here, to me, the barr aspect of this. the president clearly blows up about these leaks early on. the doj does a bunch of stuff in 2017. it indicates that barr came in. he threw half a dozen attorneys at this. they restarted this. and for him to be like, i don't really recall now. there's some tension there. the reporting, the "times" has
it like he was driving this. >> there is tension there. there were so many high profile leak probes, perhaps in addition to the leak probes that hoovered up schiff and swalwell's material, perhaps barr was much more in the weeds on. we don't have the specific details but the reality is that barr was very enthusiastic about leak probes as were other trump doj officials. >> yeah. they lost track of all the people on the enemies list whose data they were trying to hoover up. thank you for coming on. >> thanks, chris. still ahead, two militia members seen alongside roger stone now charged in the january 6th insurrection. so what is roger stone up to? that's coming up. from the world's number 1 selling nerve care company. as we age, natural changes to our nerves occur which can lead to occasional discomfort. nervive contains b complex vitamins
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don't open that. wealth is important, and we can help you build it. but it's what you do with it, that makes life worth living. principal. for all it's worth. all right. earlier this week there is this moment in a hearing, a congressional hearing that hardly got any attention. it happens all the time. most of these get no attention.
secretary of state tony blinken was appearing virtually before the house foreign affairs committee and he was asked this question by democratic congresswoman from minnesota. >> i know you oppose the investigation in afghanistan. i haven't seen any evidence in either cases that they can and will prosecute alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity. i would emphasize that in israel and palestine, this includes crimes committed by both israeli security forces and hamas. in afghanistan it includes crimes committed by the afghan national government and the taliban. in both cases, if domestic courts can't or won't pursue justice and we oppose it, where do we think the victims of these
supposed crimes can go for justice? >> just to be clear, the congresswoman was asking secretary blinken where thinks victims of alleged war crime, crimes against humanity can go for justice if local courts, say israeli courts or afghanistan courts will not look into these cases, and if the u.s. opposes the international criminal courts from investigating these alleged crimes when it comes to afghanistan and the israeli palestinians. she was referencing that there are active international criminal court investigations of all the entities she named. back in march the icc opened investigation into alleged israeli crimes and palestinian territories. it increased expected crimes against israelis and palestinians. you will look at the rocket fire by hamas and others. last year the icc ruled the chief prosecutor could home an investigation into war crimes in afghanistan by all sides of the conflict including the taliban
and u.s.-led forces. now, that's all factual, right? this is a factual recitation of things happening in the international court. the implication in the question is, how do we move to a system in which there is actually in a global sense, equal justice under the law? that it is not just ruled by the powerful, of course, who will not investigate their own government's crimes but some kind of investigative body that investigate crimes with no fear of favor of powerful and less powerful countries alike. that's the point she's making. based on the facts before the icc. then the congresswoman tweeted out her exchange with secretary blinken adding, we have seen unthinkable atrocities, committed by hamas, israel, the taliban. they called on the congresswoman to quote, clarify her words, placing the u.s. and israel in the same category as hamas and the taliban to which she
responded, to be clear, i was in no way equating terrorist organizations with judicial systems. afterwards, leadership including nancy pelosi issued a statement welcoming the clarification by congresswoman omar but also warning that drawing equivalencies foments prejudice and undermines progress toward the future of peace and security for all. sometimes when you tell truth, you reveal something your audience is not ready to hear. so if you have a problem with a grouping of these entities together, and i understand why you would, you should turn your ire toward whatever it is the u.s. has done to put us in that category. and not on congresswoman omar for pointing it out. earn at the end of their first year automatically woo! i got my mo-ney! it's hard to contain yourself isn't it? uh- huh! well let it go! woooo! get a dollar for dollar match at the end of your first year.
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under the radar as of late. which may seem like a mistake for someone with a reputation as a self-proclaimed dirty trickster. misleading congress, right? his sentence was, later, commuted. then, last year, he was given a full pardon by donald trump. since then, he seems to spend a lot of time with right-wing militia groups. on the morning of january 6th, for example, he was seen in washington, d.c. flanked by members of the oath keepers, a far-right anti-government militia. they were serving as stone's body guards, before some of them would storm the capitol during the insurrection. members of the oath keepers were, eventually, indicted. and government-charging papers allege some of the men were seen guarding trump confidante roger stone on january 5th and 6th. so, that's who roger stone was hanging out with, the day of the attack. the day before, on the eve of the attack, he was part of a rally in front of the supreme court. where he spoke alongside men connected with another militia, an anti-government group called the three percenters.
>> we are at war in this country. we are at war. tomorrow, a million-strong patriots are going to be standing right there. they're going to hear our voices. they are going to hear the rage of the american people over what they have done to us and this country. they need to know, we, as a people, 100 million strong, are coming for them if they do the wrong thing. >> that man, who was railing about the war that was going to happen on january 6th and another who spoke after him, alongside roger stone. they were part of a group of self-described militia members arrested and charged, yesterday, with conspiracy in the january-6th attack. they face charges including conspiring to obstruct an official proceeding, which carries a 20-year maximum sentence. ryan riley is senior justice reporter for huff post and today wrote this story in a piece titled traitors need to be executed, stop the steal organizer indicted in january 6th conspiracy case.
ryan, let's just start with -- with -- with these individuals and the indictments against them. who they are, what the indictments say? >> sure. so this is all sort of a group based out of orange county and i think there is sort of two separate cells. there's one sort of cell around the beverly hills area. that i think will be forthcoming. and then, there is sort of cell around orange county that has been, basically, you know, affiliated with the three percenters. and sort of, had all decided to go over to d.c. on january 6th. and they are essentially organized by this main guy, this former-police chief, who is sort of this major figure in orange county. and was organizing a lot of rallies, pro-trump rallies. anti-lockdown rallies. and sort of, had a really big following there. and just over the months, had really expressed, in pretty stark terms, what he thought needed to happen on january 6th. in really violent language. and it's really -- i mean, if -- it's the type of language that,
if a black lives matter protestor had said this at some major rally. there'd be some repercussions for that and there would be some coverage of that. but really, this kind of, somewhat, flew under the radar to a certain extent. and now, you only see this. you know, we are nearly-six months out and we are, now, just seeing charges against this individual. >> the name. i want to just play this is last november, this is him recording himself while driving so the video is dark. but it's -- it's worth listening just in terms of the kind of rhetoric that he was engaged in before storming the capitol. take a listen. >> this charade is about to end and i think we are going to see some really positive things happen once the truth gets out there and people start going to prison. and people need to be -- some people, at the highest levels, need to be made an example of with an execution or two or three. >> an execution or two or three. i mean, i have been struck by how common that rhetoric was around these circles of folks. particularly, in three
percenters and the oath keepers that were involved in january 6th. >> yeah. you know, and at a rally, another rally he organized or was speaking at back in december. he talked about, very specific terms, he talked about how, you know, they needed to go into the capitol and grab people by the hair, and drag them out and string them up by a lamppost. i mean, this is really specific rhetoric that he is talking about here and it's sort of astonishing. like, i mean, this is a former-police chief, right? this is someone with buy-in to this community. who is well known in this community. who is spreading this sort of language but if you really follow the logic of this, it's sort of not surprising. if you honestly believe the election was stolen, i keep going back to this point. if you honestly believe that the election was stolen, it sort of makes sense that this was a possible resolution to that. because that's a huge -- it would be the largest crime in american history, right? so, you have got to, like, you know, there would -- there would have to be some action in response to that. you would have to do something about it. you couldn't just have these recounts in certain states and let this play out in court. if the election was stolen, you
have to do something about that. that's kind of, like, very much, in the american spirit. and that's why you see sort of this rhetoric because these people deeply, actually, believe that, because they are being fed these lies by conservative-news outlets and by the president of the united states. >> so, roger stone. so, stone, you know, stone is one of these people. like, steve bannon got can his pardon. michael flynn got his pardon. roger stone got his pardon in. flynn showing up an event saying we should have a coup like myanmar. he is not accused of committing a crime on the 5th or the 6th. being around people who would, later, commit crimes is, itself, not a crime. but like, doing -- he was around a lot of militia guys who end up storming the capitol. what was he up to those days, do we know? >> i don't think we have seen any evidence, thus far. but i think he is tied, probably, to three separate criminal conspiracies now. like you said, he hasn't been
charged in any capacity but he's -- has certain connections to groups -- or three different groups have been charged at least. so i think it's really interesting to see what will come out in a lot of the discovery there. and how -- how closely they are in communication. because the idea you are going around and palling around with all these different groups that were then charged with storming the capitol and were preparing all this and this military gear and had no clue what was going on seemed sort of ridiculous. so i think we are going to have to see what comes down the line. but i think, also, it's going to be a very high bar because of the protections of the first amendment of the united states that are, obviously, very important. unless he was directly involved in some sort of planning, it's a lot more difficult to make these charges. it is a lot easier when somebody actually storms the capitol and actually follows through. just the incitement rhetoric is really the trick here. that's more of the difficult, heavier lift and rightfully, the more difficult argument to make in court. rather, than someone who follows through on the actions but what that means is essentially, a lot
of more pawns in this so-called war are going to end up being charged as opposed to the king or a lot of the leaders, in this situation. >> yeah. that's well said. ryan riley, thanks for making time tonight. thanks for your great reporting. that is all in on this friday night. rachel maddow show starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris, thank you, my friend. have an excellent weekend and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy friday. happy to have you here. on california's central coast, about halfway between los angeles and san francisco, give or take a few miles. is san luis obispo. it's got an historic, 18th-century mission. it is a lovely place. if you -- if you visit, you should know that locals call the county slow county. slo. but they pronounce it slow. don't say slo county, they will know you are not from around there. some of the people who have recently ins