tv Morning Joe MSNBC December 7, 2021 3:00am-6:00am PST
few hours a virtual summit between president biden and his russian counter part with vladimir putin, thank you for waking up way too early with us on this tuesday morning, "morning joe" starts now. more than 3,000 american lives were lost. >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe" on this tuesday, december 7th. a date which will live, the attack on pearl harbor happening 80 years today. we'll have a report from hawaii. a virtual meeting is set today from president biden and vladimir putin as tension continues to escalate over ukraine. donald trump dealt with covid was worst than the white house's
knowledge at the time. everyday this story as the former president walking around with the virus dangerously, spreading it. he was just breathing a deadly virus all over them. >> plus, one of trump's allies in the house of representatives is leaving congress. why? to run trump's media company. his social media company. a company that's already under investigation by the sec. it seems kind of like a good fit there. the u.s. announced a diplomatic boycott of the beijing winter olympic games. we started talking about this yesterday. we'll continue with the conversations and what the consequences are. we'll get a live report from
beijing on that. we begin on the january 6th attack. mark shorts who was chief of staff to mike pence is corroborating with the select committee, two sources tell nbc news. short was subpoenaed and the panel is assessing what information he may be able to provide one source says. short did not respond requests for comment but his cooperation as other members of the trump administration resist complying with congressional subpoenas, comes on the heels of comments made to podcast host, david axelrod. >> i don't believe that president wanted physical harm, i will never believe that. it's hard to hear those people are just expressing their first amendment rights.
those people were rioters. that was a mob. when we condemn the black lives matter protest and say those people who destroyed business should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. these people were destroying the capitol. they threatened physical harm to our elected leaders. those people were thugs and certainly they should be prosecuted. >> you know willie, it was inevitable. we talked so often, sad and pathetic creature that once had a life and career to donald trump the second he came into town and completely forgot any resemblance of integrity or decency or respect. there would be some people that
worked for that administration thinking they need to serve the country even in the worst of times. that would look at this through the lens of saying rational patriotic human beings and you know let's call a thug a thug. those people that were trying to overturn the government and kill mike pence, they're thugs. let's call them out. who knows perhaps marc shorts is the first of many patriots come forward and do what's best for america. >> let's think of who marc shorts was? he was with mike pence on january 6th. he knows what happens and he knows they were shoveling the vice president around the building because there were mobs pursuing him trying to kill him chanting hang mike pence because he didn't do the deed president trump and others wanted him to do. marc short was critical of the
john eastman memo. the attorney presented a multi pointed plan of what vice president pence could do to prevent the election being certified and throw it back to donald trump. he was at the right hand of mike pence. in some ways is not surprising that marc short is the guy who's cooperating and talking to the committee. let's add to the conversation, the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. good morning, let's pick it up there with marc short and his role in this white house, his role with the vice president, pence. >> marc short was the vice president's closest aide while he was in office, long time ties to mike pence. certainly when it came to this, the matters of the election and
everything that led to january 6th, he was mike pence's gut check. people i talked to there, receiving extraordinary amount of pressure from president trump, from trump's closest allies about january 6th and how he would play that a decisive role that he would not oversee the process to certify democratic's victory. trump still believe that pence would cave to the pressure. pence according to aides i have talked to, he wavered at times. marc short told him look, you have to do this right and short texted pence bible courses
saying keep your strength. the vice president was afraid to leave the capitol. pence was there pleading for help and getting the national guards there. he's cooperating. aides are optimistic of what they'll learn from shortment he'll be able to paint a fuller picture and hope that could lead to other aides stepping forward as well. >> we'll see and staying on top of this investigation. a former d.c. official accusing of two army generals of lying to congress about the military response of the january 6th. lieutenant general walter, under stated or misled the house
oversight committee. matthew alleges the general falsely claims the national guard didn't have the training to quickly respond on the day of the attack. he writes every leader in the d.c. guard wanted to respond, they knew they could respond to the seed of the government but they were stunned and watched him. colonel matthews calling piatt and flynn liars that day. the memo was reported from "politico," an army spokesperson tells nbc news, the actions of general have been documented. let's bring in national correspondent betsy woodruff swan. what more can you tell us about this memo?
>> the statement that you just read from the army that says the army's actions on the day of january 6th were well documented. one key allegation is one of those documents which is called the u.s. army report on january 6th is in the words of the memo's author. colonel matthews goes aggressively after a secret document that's not yet public but it's cited by the generals who matthews calls liars. this has been produced by the pentagon of a way of white-washing, the way the pentagon handled the january 6th chaos. so when historians look back that day, there will be this false narrative and what matthew tries to do in this memo is to
put where -- the official story that comes out of the pentagon. what we are seeing is two stories. and now we have a second version of events being pushed by people in the d.c. national guard that day. both general walkers who was a commander of the d.c. national guards and colonel matthews on january 6th was the d.c. national guards top lawyers. these are two narratives that are not compatible. one of the most details is a dense memo. i think it will sore down to one or two paragraphs. this will be the most important things. matthew says everyone in the d.c. national guards on the day of january 6th sat stunned as they saw the chaos capitol but they were not immediately sent there to respond. the only reason they didn't get
to the capitol building sooner was what he characterized in action and enertia of the pentagon. >> after january the 6th, a lot of us -- well, most of us wanted the investigation. we are talking about wanting a tiktok to know what the president of the united states at that time was doing. what was on donald trump doing is equally important. it's more important to know what happened between the white house and the pentagon. why was there such delay? why did the national guard get moving? we know donald trump was loving what he was seeing and he gutted the pentagon and he had fired a
lot of the top people there. there were not a lot of independent thinkers at the pentagon at time. jonathan lemire, he kept on looking at the tv and pacing his floor and asking the question, where the hell are they and what's going on? why are they not at the capitol and this is a general who knew a thing or two about the pentagon as the chairman of the joint chief and newest way around that building understood when it should have happened. it didn't happen. any body in the pentagon and again, i am no expert in what's going on at the pentagon. obviously none of us are colin powell. anybody saw what happened that morning and now is hearing the
pentagon saying nothing to see here and move along? we all know they're lying. we all know they're covering up. we need a tiktok. we need a second by second accounting of where the pentagon was and why they were dragging to their feet and why they let our capitol, why trump's leaders inside the pentagon and commander in chief hid himself, why did they let our capitol get ransacked and ravaged. the people's house defiled. we understand donald trump enjoyed the show. i am just curious what was happening inside the pentagon and you were reporting on the leading up to january 6th. jonathan lemire, i remember
talking to you about the letter that dick cheney got with other secretaries of defenses to say watch out, it's coming with this guy. it became america watched the people's house desecrated. they did nothing. >> i'm siting at blocks from the u.s. capitol right now. it's hard to police chief seeing those scenes transpired here at the capitol. >> you are right. the letter you mentioned from dick cheney and other secretaries of defense about ten president trump's efforts and worried of what it could yield.
betsy, obviously there is a lot to go here. one of the generals we should mention is charles flynn, you should tell the audience who his brother is and the role he plays. tell us what's next? the critical ig report and they're looking into what happens there. what are the next steps that could happen at the pentagon as a result of this explosive? >> it's important to have clarity of charles flynn. charles' brother is michael flynn. i want to be crystal clear, this report does not insinuate, suggest or hint of their relationship between those two men. the report does not mention michael flynn. this is a report why a person
who's not holding act and comfortable and serious major allegations. i believe the author of this report believed that michael flynn was shaping charles's decision making. this report does not signal that relationship was made. at least in the four corners of the document. in terms of what's next, i expect the january 6th committee is going to want to hear more from matthew, the d.c. national guard to get a clear sense. one other important thing we talk about what was going on at the pentagon. how did it happen? we are talking about a lot of folks over recent days. one thing that absolutely shapes the way every single official was thinking up the lead up of january 6th was the summer of 2020. everyone was deeply concerned that the d.c. national guards wouldover react there would be
too militaryize response. the entire focus was how can we make sure we don't move too fast and the military don't do too much. how can we be as careful as possible. congratulations, they did not react. the military was too lower case c "conservatives." senior officials made the fatal error of under estimating the danger of this mob. >> betsy woodruff swan, thank you so much. >> there was a concern again and again about optics from some of these generals. the optics are bad, it went out the window when police officers were beaten with american flags and people charging into the capitol. they did not hesitate six months earlier to have the national
guards in the streets to protect businesses and many places so during the protests of george floyd's murder but they were worrying about optics for january 6th. >> it was painful to watch all around. you don't have to be a general to see this was hours and hours of a non-response that led people killed and getting hurt and led this entire assault of our democracy dragged out. >> we understand again concerns about an over reaction. as video was showing police officers getting their brains bashed by american flags and being tasered and bear sprayed
and having their hair jammed inside doors. all of this unfolding on television and donald trump sitting there and reveling in the chaos and the rioting and the insurrection in his name, he was getting calls from republican members of congress. >> please stop. >> those calls were begging for support. he would not do anything. he also had chuck schumer and nancy pelosi. also mitch mcconnell locked down begging for support and begging for help. yet from the pentagon from anybody and they would move. let's just say it's fairly obvious. really why they were not moving. they had a commander in chief that didn't want them to move, hour after hour after hour. mika, that's really to get that
information and to confirm what seems to be the most likely cause of this. this is why we need to know absolutely everything that went on inside that white house, absolutely that went on in the pentagon, all the communications between all of the players, all of the principles on that day to figure out why. here we are watching the worst unfolding before our eyes and our lawmakers' lives in danger. we'll continue to follow these questions and great reporting
betsy woodruff swan. we'll continue the conversation in a moment. we must move to a crucial virtual meeting that's set between president biden and russian president vladimir putin as tensions continue to escalate over ukraine. biden is warning putin of severe economic consequences including sanctions against putin's inner circle if russia invades ukraine again. president biden is expected to make it clear that a diplomatic deescalation is the only way forward. biden spoke with european allies ahead of the call to discuss the potential sanctions if russia does not comply. putin is expected to demand a guarantee that nato will never expand into ukraine. that's a big issue, the high-stake calls as russia has
tens of thousands of troops near the u.s. border. let's bring in keir simmons live from london with more on this. >> reporter: well, mika, we are getting a picture of what this conversation is likely to look like in the coming hours between president biden and president putin. this call between president biden and a number of leaders. the leaders of britain and italy and france. it tells you that president biden is leaning into his policy of bringing allies together in order to deal with issues. he wants to show president putin that western europe and the u.s. are united in their opposition to any action by russia and any kind of invasion into ukraine but mika, that's in a sense the easy part for president biden to
show president putin what the implication may be. there is talks for white house reporters who have been briefed oaf night and president biden may threaten russia may be removed from the payment system. president putin is well aware of the huge risk of invasion of ukraine. the logistics on the ground will be difficult. the hard part is going to be trying to offer as you mentioned some kind of a diplomatic road map if you had like, trying to show president putin there is another way. there is reporting that president biden may do is talk about president putin and russia being able to talk to nato and negotiate with nato. here is the problem with that. for example, foreign policy magazine over night talking about the ukrainians asking for hardware or helicopters that
were destined for afghanistan. putin sees it as an example of nato expanding, the kind of thing he's supposed to. we have seen it play out before. as after the call, watch what the russians say what they have been offered. in the months ahead, watch what russians say how that deal is honored. once again they are helping ukraine. that's the internal of the problem. never forget in the end ukraine is more important to president putin and kiev and western europe and washington. >> that's why i am wondering what the possibility will be of joe biden offering a guarantee of at least a delay of nato
membership for ukraine perhaps saying we give you a commitment to de-escalate and we give you a commitment not to offer nato membership to ukraine for ten years in exchange for deescalation as long as the situation remains deescalating. >> yes, it's a great question, joe. look, in the end when western european leaders and american leaders believing in the sovereignty of ukraine. it wants that. you have to ask yourself the question, is it worth washington risking a conflict with russia over ukraine simply over
ukraine's right to join nato, ukraine is unlikely to join nato any time soon. the prospect is unlikely. that pinpoints the current challenge for western europe and the u.s. competing with putin over this. how do you stand for democracy and stand for ukraine's sovereign rights if you would like. and at the same time trying to offer putin some kind of a way forward. >> yes, for a country that's obviously well within their geographic influence. mexico is within ours. a lot of tough questions for joe biden and vladimir putin today. our nbc's keir simmons. still ahead on "morning joe," we are learning new details how sick donald trump was when he caught coronavirus.
according to mark meadows it was more dire than white house officials previously acknowledged. david purdue announces his run for governor of georgia and not only is he criticizing democrat candidate stacey abram but leaders of his own party as well. >> georgia republican, this political violence is really sad. >> and also ahead, u.s. government officials will boycott the upcoming winter olympics and now china is threatening counter measures. we'll go live to beijing for the latest on that. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. are watchin we'll be right back.
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welcome back to "morning joe," there is new tension between the united states and china after the u.s. announced a diplomatic boycott of next year's winter olympics. andrea mitchell has more. >> reporter: american athletes will be in beijing to compete but neither any u.s. officials will be attending. the white house announced protest of the games. the u.s. calls genocide against the minority uighurs and the
disappearance of tennis star after she came out aboutsexual abuse. >> senator romney, is diplomatic boycott is it is way to go? >> i don't feel the burden of our international policies should fall on the shoulders of these young people. let's make our statements loud and clear to not sending diplomats through beijing. >> beijing calling it an offense to china's 1.4 million people. china will take necessary and resolute counter measures. >> andrea is reporting for us there. joining us now is janice mackey
fryer, she's live from beijing. it appears to boil down to fine we didn't invite you anyway, we didn't want you here. what does it look like from where you are standing here? >> reporter: that's the sub text that china does not care. u.s. officials were summoned to get an earful and the u.s. is being criticized for politicizing the games. they also talked of an ideology bias and basic arrogance that u.s. officials thinking they're going to be invited any way. the editors took it a step further on twitter suggested that officials are covid-risk any way and the people of beijing don't want to see them here. still this is a heavily sense on social media, terms like boycott and obviously are censored along
with the government and political scheming is doomed to fail. what we are seeing is as highly charged reaction. beijing has a lot at stakes with these games. andrea mentioned the scandal around the tennis player, that's one that chinese officials have yet to directly address. now what we are seeing also is this nervousness around implementing covid protocols and exactly what it means. test events just wrapped up here. there is also a test of the bubble system that's implemented here. i point this out because austria, one of the countries that's expected to come on side but the diplomatic boycott is saying it's going to cite those strict covid protocols as a reason for their boycott, not
link it to human rights. at any rate, i had a chance to talk quickly and socially distanced with the coach of italy's snow board team and what the concerns are with completes? >> you never know what you will find here. now that we are here, seems like everything is okay. >> in terms of what's next, what the u.s. is going to need is other countries, other nations particularly in europe coming on side with this diplomatic boycott move to make it an international boycott as opposed to a u.s. snob that's an escalation in an already bad relationship. neutrality for a lot of country is going to be tricky territory to navigate in this coming days with china warning the u.s. of
firm counter measures but they are not saying what those counter measures are going to be. >> janice mackey fryer, reporting live, thank you as always. >> joe and mika, we heard with senator romney on board of this diplomatic boycott. we heard a number of republicans supporting with president biden on this. >> it seems like the fact that middle ground for now. diplomatic boycott. there are others of course who are never going to be happy and ain't going to call for a full-blown boycott. i think we need to wait a bit longer for athletes and others and be able to have some leverage over china as we move forward instead of moving too quickly. it's going to be fascinating. >> willie, you are actually in new york city studio and of
course we all know the best part of being in the new york city studio is not of course -- but being able to get the new york post and of course "the daily news." there is a "new york post" winner today. it's such a striking way. show us the cover. >> the announcement made by mayor de blasio of a vaccine mandate for private businesses. here is how the new york post is taking and treating that news. if you can get it over here. you want it here? >> santanista clause. referencing a long ago trip.
a young old de blasio back in the day. >> he's doing a good job. on the bottom of the paper, there is a story of the french actor. >> that's how dave chappelle has taken to announce jussie smollett. you can see not just vaccine mandates, facilities shooting up drugs and gifted and talented programs. there you go, the santanista is coming. >> thank you, willie. >> happy to help. >> ten years from now, people are going to look back and want to see what happened. they're going to see new york city most compressed and most
populated city in america. ground zero of this under bill de blasio. his seven day average is better than a lot of red states so again very funny headline and picture. again, this kicking bill deblasio around about making new york city a fairly safe place to be during these difficult times on the pandemic is something. they also, the editorial page attacked de blasio for high crimes in new york city and his bad relationship with the police, they're about seven years late on that, precovid,
you had the lowest run rate in new york city since the 1950s. everybody is kicking bill deblasio around. i am not sure it's going to be fair and well especially on the covid front years from now. >> we'll talk about the legal aspect whether or not he can impose this on private businesses. >> the legal stories we are covering next block in chicago. >> not as exciting. >> jussie smollett takes the stand in his trial denying charges he staged an attack on himself and lied to about it to police. it's interesting. in the court battle brewing over new york city's vaccine mandates for private businesses. we'll look into that. "morning joe" its back in a minute. "morning joe" its back in a minute [school bus passing by] [kids laughing] [bikes passing] [fire truck siren]
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we got omicron is a new factor and we got holiday gatherings, we decide to use the preemptive strikes to stop covid and the danger to all of us. we are going to announce our first in the nation measure, a vaccine mandate for private sector, employers across the board. >> you know willie, i am not really good at christmas presents this year. you got the supply chain thing. that's a real problem. i think we have a present for out going mayor bill de blasio. we need to talk to our friends at the new york post. i think we need to get that cover blown up for him.
i would love a cover like that. he can put it up, man cave and tv room. santanista clause. >> come on, he can laugh at himself. >> okay. >> you can't say -- everyday is a holiday with "the new york post," i think we need to get that and blow up the picture and frame it. >> instant classic to be sure. on the back we should point out the evergreen headline. as you mentioned new york city mayor bill de blasio announced the first vaccine mandates for
all private sector employers. joining us now is charles comen. it's great to see you in person. let's talk through some of the legal challenges we are sure to see over this, mandates for private vaccines. now we are talking about private business. do you think it will holdup in court? >> that remains to be seen. when you are talking about the government sector, the mayor authority there is a lot different than what we are talking about around private business. you are going to see a number of different legal challenges coming up. you will see i think a ton within organizations of religious exemption requests. what we are going to have happen in addition to court battles internally, employees are going
to be looking to get exceptions. i don't know how soon this will take and if things in effect does at all. >> does it sound legal to you in the merits. i don't think that being the case. with respect to osha and other states and local agencies, he may be able to viably maintain this. i think there will be too many challenges in terms of lack of presence and lack of authority being establish to regulate this sort of thing in private industry is not going to stand up. >> it's going to land in the lap of in coming mayor, eric adam. let's talk about texas, the doj says the plans are discriminatory against black and latino voters who have fewer of the state's population boom.
merrick garland says it violates the voting rights act. >> texas violated section two by recreating redistricting plans that deny or bridge the rights of latinos and black voters voting in account of their race. >> ken paxton calling the suit, "the latest ploy to control texas voters." how do you see this playing out? section six which was the original section that had the preclearance gutted in the infamous case of shelly verses holder. you can't redistrict any way and
based off of their race and membership in an ethic groups. the doj does have one thing working for them that's going to be helpful. section two no longer requires intent so you don't have to establish there was some sorts of discriminatory. you do have to establish the results. the doj in their complaints and file in pleadings have put forward some arguments. >> even when the court was split by four with robert voting with the conservative group of justices, they still, it's a great deference to state redistricting and same thing with voting rights bill, always showing great deference. do you see anything in this case may suggest a 6-3 conservative liberal court that justice would
have any chance of prevailing in this suit. >> i don't and i think you made some good points in terms of the deference and in terms of their ability to redistrict. this is not a new thing. when i say is not a new thing, it's based on the party that's within the majority. i think one of the things that the doj has in front of them that's an uphill battle is establishing to the point that basically listen, this is about a result that's created in an inequitable situation. i don't know if it's going to be come peming enough given everything you said about the court's history. >> finally something different of the legal realm and that's
the case of jussie smollett accused of faking his own beating and homophobic slurs, and the two men testified they were paid by mr. smollett and this was all a set up. >> he took the stand yesterday, what did we hear from them? did you find this is compelling? >> people need to understand first and for most, jussie smollett is an actor. one of the things making it convenience for him to understand is his ability, his testimony was bizarre. there were a number of different details that came out that were not to be expected and were not typical in terms of what you expect to hear in a case like this. i think it's important to understand that from a sympathy standpoint, he may have been
able to drag this case back in top a conversation about credibility. the prosecution put forward a lot of physical evidence which is damming. however, with his testimony, all he needs is to get one person. i don't know if he did it but we'll have to see. >> charles, let me ask you, guy to guy here. >> okay. >> no, joe, -- >> were you like mika, when she first heard the story, she says come on. there is something that's not right here. >> i was just like mika. i can recall having conversations in my inner circle with a number of people who repeatedly say something about this does not smell right. something about this does not pass the sniff test, when i began to apply my former prosecutor lens and combine it with my common sense lens, long before we were talking about
where the case is now. i knew that this did not add up. something as i say the math was not mathing if you will. something about that really stood out in terms of watching this case unfold and it's a spectacular display of absurdity, joe. everything that we have seen from the prosecutor in terms of charging him or not charging him and now charging him and now him being on the stands and movies. so many absurd details came out. this is some sort of a legal circus. >> yeah. >> yes, it's been crazy. >> actor jussie smollett. crazy stuff. >> we should point, quoting dave chappelle there. >> thank you so much. good to see you. former democratic governor of montana is joining us.
quote, you need to get out of the city more. plus, more on the "atlantic" coverage of america is in crisis. he thought he can lead the party away from the abyss and what is he doing now that he's unable to do so. "morning joe" is coming right back. so. "morning joe" is coming right back ♪ ♪ well would you look at that? ♪ ♪ jerry, you've got to see this. seen it. trust me, after 15 walks ...it gets a little old. ugh. i really should be retired by now. wish i'd invested when i had the chance... to the moon! [thud] [clunk] ugh... unbelievable. unbelievable. [ding]
positive enough to continue with your holiday plans but vague enough to spend the entire time freaking out. welcome back to "morning joe," it's tuesday, december 7th. >> what are we looking at there? >> is mika there this morning? we sent the dumb waiter up with her breakfast but we have not heard back. >> jonathan lemire is with us, joining us is we have eddie glaude jr. >> i don't have an apartment there. just for the record, joe loved his stir fried tofu last night. >> it was meatless monday, we interviewed mary mccartney. >> he gobbled it up. >> jack wants to look into the
vegan thing a little bit. >> we had dumplings and soybean and tofu. >> climate change and a lot of different reasons, inspired of mary mccartney. >> we did it and it was great. i put a lot of dream land barbecue sauce on the tofu. i asked mika to burn it hard. >> i did fry it. >> had to be done. i am curious, are you a succession fan, watching week after week? >> i have to catch up the whole last season. i did note there is a lot of
activities, a lot of questions about the finale online yesterday. i am excited to sit down and plow through it. something happen. >> did we talk about the morning show? did you end up watching the morning show"? >> jennifer anniston is so good in it and man, why did i ever liked her in "friends,". >> she's fantastic. >> you can tell she's been around and talked to a few people been in the biz before. she's really, really good. eddie, i take it to you, you are a "succession" fan?
you watched any "succession"? joe, you know i am a nerd, i have been stuck in novels. >> at least you read. >> he does not watch tv actually. >> no time. >> lemire, i know you. you are like me, you are sort of -- you got to watch "succession," right? >> i have been watching "succession" and completely caught up. i know we don't want to get into spoilers as to what happened the last few minutes of the episode on sunday. we had a finale. the last ten minutes left me reeling and difficult to watch, i had to get up and walk around. >> wow. >> eddie, you should get a tv. >> man! >> it's cute. >> that sounds, that sounds like
red sox's bullpen. now it's remarkable how they take each character and make them more detestable week after week. yet you keep on watching. this week was extraordinary compelling. i just think it's so fascinating that the two shows that a lot of people around us talked about the most this year is "succession" which is a study in human deprivety and some of the worst kyle clarks ever on television and the other is "ted lasso," upbeat and joyful. which celebrates the best of human nature. yet as i would like to say two things.
it's fascinating though. >> let's spoil it for everybody, what do you think is going to happen? >> should we want to spoil it? >> no, we really don't. >> i don't want to call tl president bad name and he did and things did not go well. >> i do not want you to spoil it. >> the fate of the main character up in the air, going into the last season. this is no a spoiler. the next wedding of the first wife t therefore the main character's mom. uncomfortable at times do we say the least. it was extremely well-done. characters get less likable by the episode and the settings here just stunning. they're in italy and beautiful.
but, it's as great show. it's compelling to watch, very different than "ted lasso," i love "only murder in the building." >> amazing. >> the best i have seen is bill belichick's coaching, the patriots won in buffalo. they won in buffalo any way. 50 miles per hour winds and seized control of the afc. >> fantastic. >> okay, now to the news. >> alex is telling me the plane is getting backed up in jfk. >> there is a suggestion that we do like state of the union and we do hearings kind of like demanding where we just sit in our easy, laz-y boy and sits
back eating chips and we comment on the side. >> number one because people talking and you want to hear what they are saying. really what the problem is that would mean we have to work at night. >> we all agree there is no place for that in a civil society. >> joe, my big concern number one, we'll circle back to everything. "the morning show," jennifer anniston is excellent and billy crudo. >> i am afraid you won't be allowed tuscaloosa of your confession of eating tofu. >> i am doing my best to take that journey with my 13-year-old boy. >>. >> brown rice and a little bit
of sesame oil. >> they don't hate kids in pensacola, i think they'll be fine with me being a good dad holding his hand as we share that experience together. again, couple's mitigating factors. i put dream land barbecue sauce on. i put dream land barbecue sauce on it. >> i worked really hard on that dinner. >> okay, we'll get to the news now. there is new reporting that donald trump dealt with covid was worst than the white house acknowledged at the time. citing from the new book from mark meadows. trump's blood oxygen level was 10 points below normal the days before he was hospitalized. meadows says they did not have the resources to treat him at the white house so he needed to
go to the hospital. >> the president resisted. it's better you walk out of here today under your own strength, your own power than for me to carry you out on a girny in two days. >> that was enough to convince trump. trump lost so much strength, he dropped a briefcase he had plan to carry outside on the walk out to the helicopter. at one point meadows recalled telling him, i lost so much strength, the muscles are not responding. >> jonathan, talking about this in realtime. i had a family member who had pneumonia and every time, that oxygen level went below 90. 88 and 89. you get down to 85 or 86, that's really serious and of course really serious and as you knew
at the time, a bunch of staffers lying to their teeth of tl health of the united states. >> much of this we learned quickly after trump's covid diagnose. what's so stunning is from the mouth directly from mark meadows. the president's condition deteriorated there, over night into thursday and friday. i was on the white house's south lawn when he walked out slowly and trying to put focus on one foot in front of each other to get lifted to the medical center that the president supposed to carry a briefcase with him but he did not have the strength to do it. >> his oxygen levels set off alarms within the white house. they noted how quickly it had fallen. gout to go to walter reid. you walk out or you wait a day or we'll have to carry you out because he was deteriorating
quickly. trump bounced back fairly fast because he was pumped all of the state of the art medicines. we know from white house staffers and the next day at the hospital, doctors lying to us on what the president's oxygen level was and whether he needed oxygen to stabilize his condition and he lied and lied. it was meadows later did clarify yes, the president was doing worse than we thought. few things were skapt in terms of global news and markets were allies. it was a little touch and go. >> what's that? >> nothing this white house would have lied about. >> lying is apart of a job when
you are a doctor. ronnie jackson is like the master of it. now he's lying to constituents and feeding them false information that could get him killed. eddie, i wonder if we just as americans unfortunately, we just have to factor in when a doctor of a president that's talking their lies. go back to history whether you talking about fdr or reagan or trump. these doctors all lie about the health of presidents, always tell us they are in better shape than they are. >> it seems that way. in the case of donald trump, it takes on a different kind of register. there is a kind of constellation of lies. we all know it but we still want to watch it. >> there is a sense that there
is donald trump and his lies and there is the lies that go with what government tends to do in the name of protecting us as it were. >> again, this overall sense of distrust of everyday ordinary americans have. donald trump is what he is like watching minnesota wrecking crew. >> there we go. >> have to talk more about that. >> former senator david purdue is running for governor. he's challenging brian kemp soon after his announcement. he tweeted a video slamming stacey abrams and as well as leaders of his own party. >> i am running for party to make sure stacey a program is never governor of georgia. >> she will smile and lie and cheat to transform georgia in to her radical vision.
it will look more like california or new york. >> let me be clear. to fight back we have to be united. unfortunately today we are divided and brian kemp and brian rather -- >> joe, there is so much in here which reminds people that david purdue lost in january to john ossoff. you heard in that announcement the crux of this argument which is like people like kemp and
raffensberger. the reason david purdue has donald trump's support because he's willing to talk again about 2020. we'll remind our viewers, the voters in georgia counted three times and including once buy hand. >> the president donald trump put in charge making sure the 2020 election was secure. calling it the safest and most secure elections in the united states. what did trump do? he immediately fired him for saying that. >> you go a guy used to be a mainstream republican, summing up this life or death struggle. over my dead body. this black woman, i asked a friend yesterday, she's still involved in republican politics.
i was sitting there and what in the world? >> what's happening to my friends and your friends who's saying rational republicans 20 years ago or 10 years ago, we would sit and debate. how do we make it the most effective and now they're chase all these conspiracy theories. they turned it now into this life. you have donald trump who has said your life, your freedom, your existence is on the line. as long as they are willing to fight for you then all of these people, you know, used to be rational republicans will jump on board. that's a language, eddi, that
we saw there which is over my dead body will stacey abrams turning georgia radicalize state. he accused kemp and raffensberger when all they did was let people count the votes and certiied the votes. when donald trump called him up to ask for a number of specific votes for him, to rig the election for him. the secretary of state said no. that's not the dividing state of georgia. that's giving it down about the united states of america and fair and free elections. >> right, it seems as if georgia has become ground zero for the state of our direct examination. >> you think of the demographic shifts of georgia. >> we talk about it.
there is this sense that americans are changing. stacey abrams is the representative as the pollster child of that change. these are not just dog whistles. they're appearing to people's sense of fear. they fear this country is fundamentally changing. we may talk about it in the next segment. . >> part of what we hear is the fact that the country is leaving some people behind. not only do we see the appeal to those grieve yenss. we see it interestingly enough in the attempt of stacey abrams to give voice to a different kind of america in the midst of this existential crisis where some people are feeling.
>> let's be clear here. there is that talk of leaving people behind. this is what helps fascious thrive. this is what helps extremist thrives. we have strong economy and a lot of donald trump's most out spoken supporters drive around in porsches and mercedes and driving around their bmws, they're hedge funds manager or they work at banks. >> they go around on their yachts or there large boat with trump's flag. they have obscene flags like
applying from the front of their man shins. that's what does not fit this time. >> that's not as big of a story as middle class really wealthy people snapping forward and for their own reasons responding to this kind of talk and turning their backs on separation of powers on madison's checks and balances. they know better. they choose still. >> on the attack of the capitol. >> nor bible verse. they know the difference between
darkness and light and they choose darkness. they choose and they continue top spread these lies to believe these lies that some italian dude somehow rigged the elections. >> i want to say you are right, the phrase of being left behind does not register materials conditions economically. this is the cultural reality, this was what you guys were talking about yesterday with sofia and lowry. the lost that you were noting in your tweet had everything to do with this demographic of the country. the country is no longer white. i always seem to come back to this issue but those culture issues seem to be at the heart of it, joe. >> we have to wrap our minds
about it. >> i want to continue about this on one more second. i have been a skeptic for quite some time. the election of barack obama's was such a shock to so many white americans. i was skeptic of that. i saw his election even though they did not agree with him ideologically. something to celebrate. i must say 13 years later, i just running out of explanations
for the radicalism that has swept the republican party. and i sadly coming to the point where i have to admit. there is always underlying stran strans of racism in that court. the more we try to explain the radicalization of the party. i am not sure historians will talk about this demographic change. we all know it has been coming for 30 years. we all know who's going to change american politics but i am not so sure. americans won't look at the eight years of barack obama and say that was a triggering point for white americans who were either racially incentive orray
sis to bolt away and embrace radical form of politics in lying. >> lying about everything that they can under the sun and untether americans from the truth. that's what we need now. maybe we can begin to imagine our america. >> it seems to me that we need that honest acknowledge if we are going to move forward. >> looking ahead for democrats. joining us now steve bullock. he's the current coach hair of american bridge 24's century. he's out with a new opinion book for the new york times entitled.
"i was a fellow governor." >> you need to get out of the city more. >> i can't think of a more important project. we have been talking about democrats whining. oh my gosh. the redistricting, how in the world? as if aliens landed and were responsible for redistricting. oh, i can't believe it. everyday we read democrats whining and complaining about things that are occurring because democrats lost a thousand seats out in middle america and they can't win in places where you won. >> yeah, that's right. >> it's more than just middle
america. >> the morning after the new jersey and virginia elections, almost half of the counties in virginia, democrats lost by 70%. >> 45 of 95. >> go back to barack obama. >> he only lost four counties in virginia. >> did you know we almost lost a thousands lesion. >> democrats are not connecting with folks in these areas the way that we could. >> morning governor, it's willie geist, great to have outen the show. >> let's be specific as we read through your peace.
>> there is been talk about broadly, what do you think are those problem areas that that democrats and montana here going oh, no thangs. >> we don't provide any view that called be done. if you go to rural areas, a fourth of everybody living there is more than half of their income in rent. affordable housing in rural areas are a problem. >> build back better and the bipartisan infrastructure. there is great things that could impact people's life. >> it's sort of that in action, then at some point the culture issues that the republicans in the early session that you would
noted that. that's when we'll start to be a driver in that vacuum. >> this is eddie glaude. how do you avoid the underlying implications of the distinction between urban and rural. how do you avoid that sounding like? >> let's stop talking about this black and ground and talk about these white voters in rule america. >> deadly, think about 2006 to 2016, 80% of hold hold income remains flat or fell. oaks are not getting ahead. it's not avoided. half america has not had increase in pay in 40 years. >> what we should be doing is let's talk about the issue. whether you are urban or rural.
everybody wants a decent jobs with a little bit of money left over at the end. >> a safe community and good schools. we don't even show up in those things as a democratic party outside of our urban centers. >> even though these are folks, look, they have the same aspirations. >> democrats got too aggressive with their policy. it may have said that joe biden is the only dem and he did because he was viewed as a sentrist. >> during the 2008 campaign, we are talking about president obama. on the 4th of july, he did an
event in butte, montana, not a swing state but he thought it was important to go there. what's your view of the party right now? >> is it too aggressive? >> willie, i think that you know to me first of all, the core of the record progressive is progress. >> so democrats have to show they are making pog in people's life. >> whether you are in world virginia and montana right now, you see about a year fighting in d.c. it sure does not feel like progress or progressiveness. >> leaning air and clean water and roads and bridges. you need that in urban and infrastructure area. >> it had so much that's
meaningful and progressives. >> we are taking steps and build back better bill. a child credit, child tax care credit which will impact 40 million americans. that's progressive but i think it matters a lot in and i think it malters a lot in rural area. >> that's a problem with big cities and small town all across the country. >> the bill back etter plan has a two year of a quality tprk. those are things that gets to the issue that family face ing and sitting around their table last night. >> stooefr, thank you very much.
>> still ahead on "morning joe," wall street top financial investigators are investigating. >> former president trump. looks like congressman -- >> and a look at the woman leading the uprising in belaruse. >> video of president biden and the first lady moments ago visiting the world war ii memorial to mark national pearl harbor remembrance day. you are watching "morning joe," we'll be right back. e watching we'll be right back.
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37 minute past the hour. fred wyatt died yet at the hospital in new york city at the age of 66. he suffered a seven cardiac arrest on november 24th. he never woke up to conscious nesz. he was a three-time finalists for the editorial writing. the board published in peace of honor. so he was an intelligent and
compassion. it reads in part. . >> to everyone if the post was gifted with seemingly effortless charm, good humor. sometimes fractions through staffs and daunting challenges. >> from the attack of september 11th and 2001 and war that if the followed the presidency of donald trump. mr. hyatt and the unsign pred territorial representing the post position which he never saw. >> the summer of 2016, mr. hide, declaring mr. trump unfit for the presidency. one of his series of commentaries for which he's a finalist. >> the fringe of u.s. citizens
on just laying in prison. >> depender of mr. trump were popped online on the op-ed ages. >> hnest broker, oes mof all. an editor of surpassing, compel jens and compassion and integrity. >> he leaves us a poefl and personal journalistic. >> fred was just a wonderful man. i get the opportunity to know him when i started writing op-eds for the washington post. i must say knowing what a great editor he was and an influential man he was in the business and
shaping opinion, my biggest surprise of meeting him was an extraordinary kind, gracious, decent man he is. that's why people like our next guest at "the washington post" ruth marcus are hurting. so much thlg morning. i heard goodwin saying if abraham lincoln, he was a great man but more remarkly, he was as good man. and a business and a city that's cluttered by great men and women, there are not enough good, decent, honorable man. >> like fred hyatt. tell us about your friend and washington and the world has loss. >> i want to thank all of you,
mika, for reading so extensively that wonderful materials. joe and eddie reached out to me yesterday to breathe with us about the loss. the best way to explain to fred is that in a world where all of us want to be on "morning joe," fred high yacht did not need to be a brand because he was quiet force and kind was the word that kept coming up in e-mails and phone calls after phone cals as we war all so reeling yesterday. he was the first in this that were polarized and we can have an opinion section that had both a kind commentary, not to mean commentary but intelligence commentary across the political peck strum. when president biden was
elected, we found trump's empathetic columnists to express that point of view. he was a force for democracy in human rights that came from his experience as a corresponding in russia as the soviet union -- i had its full flower ing and not just in promoting human rights abroad but making sure that democracy could help survive, that he could help survive through his words and "the washington post" as it's threaten here in america. that's just a driving force for him. he's also a force for the proposition that journalism has a future and has a role and a force for the proposition that we can't be decent to each other
and argue republicanfully with each other without -- without hating each other. >> thank you for the opportunity to talk about him. >> i want to talk about diversity in the age of trump. it's something we battle with here. >> always thinking what happens we were over responding at times. of course when you are under responding, but i would look at "the washington post" editorial page and it was a good sign that i want see people supporting and defending donald trump at a time i didn't think that was possible. >> it would make me angry some of the arguments which i thought were in such bad faith, i want to pick up the phone and i wanted to call fred and complain and i said, wait a second, this
is what a real editorial page saying omnivore omz. -- oh my god. >> how in the world are they allowing this to be printed? >> it's a free marketplace of ideas when you have 45 to 48% of americans who supported a presidential candidate throughout, you know, threw out his run and his presidency. >> fred was not afraid to give voice to opinion shapers that represented that 48% when so many won't. the new york times fired the editorial fired. their editor for something he
wrote, fred had the power and the courage of his convictions to say let them fight it out under that has auditorium page. >> if you had picked up the phone and called fred, you would not have been alone. we diludge who were sletenning to transfer their serious condition because they did not like a specific colleague. >> almost each and everyone of them by the way and said this is why we do thi and this is what we are committed to. this is what we do and we hope you can appreciate it. they were stunned to hear back from the editor at "the washington post."
the flip side is in terms of his willingness and not just to accommodate views from the other side, views that he passionately disagreed with but to call out with whom he tend to disagree more. >> when aung san suu kyi helped to get free in burma. when democrats did things did not leading up to their extent, he called them out. >> he was willing to praise donald trump for substance. >> we'll miss him so much. >> hi ruth, this is eddie glaude. >> my bay areas are with the family and all of you. i had the opportunity to quickly
to meet with him and you know it feels like this is a season of loss. so i am going to ask a question. how do you write in light of fred's legacy and in a season of lost when we have to deal with this so up close. does it make sense? >> it takes total sense. i think that part is really clear for us as we were just in shock and grief yesterday. the benefit of working for a daily news paper is you have to put it out everyday. jacksonville's deal, don graham and the former chairman of "the washington post" who was one of fred's closest friends who hired him for a job and wrote a beautiful association.
we sat around for a few hours and ate a lot of baked goods. we also then broke up to do our jobs which we knew what pred fred want us to do. he left everything we have been talking about with fred and his vision and principles and commitment is something that we have all internalized. >> he hired every one of us on the opinion staff. we know clearly how to carry on in the faith of his lost. we know what he believed, it's a terrible loss as it's for us. we can keep going. >> thank you so much on such a tremendously difficult day. >> and we are thinking so much
of you ruth and everybody. we are here and we are thinking about you guys and praying for you, thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> nothing made fred you. nothing made fred happier than when you joe and mika wrote for us and made such splashes and impact with what you wrote. thank you for that and thanks for the opportunity. >> well, it was an honor, and mika will tell you too, it was just an honor knowing fred. >> working with him. >> such a good, good, decent man. >> ruth marcus, thank you. we will be right back.
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welcome back to emergency emergency. coming up to the top of the hour. 7:55 on the east coast. the crucial meeting set today between russian vladimir putin and president biden. he's expected to warn putin over sanctions if russia invades ukraine again. and belarus is banning european airlines and the importation of western goods. that move comes after the united states joined with its international allies to impose new sanctions on the former soviet nation. the sanctions were in response to the migrant crisis on the border of belarus with poland and ongoing human rights violations committed by the country's longtime president alexander lukashenko. joining us now staff writer for "the new yorker" dexter filkins.
he's back from a trip to belarus and new piece titled "an accidental revolutionary leading ab uprising in belarus." dexter, tell us who this person is and why she's zendal. >> this is an amazing story and she's the first one to say it, i'm an accident. she was a quiet stay-at-home mom. she had given up a career as an english teacher to take care of her son who was born deaf and spent many years teaching him how to speak. by her own admission, she led a semi isolated life. her husband was a popular journalist. he challenges lukashenko in one of lukashenko's, every five years he has a phony election, runs against them and arrests
everybody and he wins. but this time he wins and all of the major candidates are arrested. suddenly by kind of a turn of fate she signed up in her name for him because he had been in prison, she's the candidate. in the course of three weeks transformed herself into this extraordinary national leader and transforms the country and clearly, just clearly wipes out lukashenko in the polls. he then had her arrested and thrown out of the country. since this happened she's built a government in exile in lithuania and trying to unseat lukashenko. extraordinary interview. >> there was an interview last week where lukashenko that made the rounds where he was confronted about all of this. you say she's a stay-at-home mom. how do you go that in a matter of weeks for having the presence and courage to step out and do what she's done?
>> there's these amazing scenes where she's basically approached by all of the people who got knocked off the ballot. look, your name is on the ballot. you've got to run. and she starts to cry. she breaks down. she can't do it. then she kind of gathers herself and clearly had it inside of her, clearly, and kind of summoned the courage and literally in the space of hours, she's at a podium. she's standing before enormous crowds who were responding to her be galvanizes the country against them. incredible. >> so what happened, dexter, inside the country? she's exiled. she's running a government in exile. what happens to the thousands and thousands of people who supported her and wanted to see her win and probably voted her in and she did win? what's happening inside the country right now? >> it's a pretty grim situation. alexander lukashenko, the last dictator in europe, he's basically set out to destroy
civil society in belarus. so dozens and dozens, hundreds of journalists, aid workers, professors, welcome workers, anybody who's basically in his line, he's arrested. i think about 30,000 people he's arrested. it's a pretty grim situation and that's what svetlana basically outside the country is working to try to change. >> joe's got a question for you. >> dexter, obviously today, joe biden is going to be talking to vladimir putin. can you explain how putin hates lukashenko and yet it is that alliance, brittle alliance, that kept him in power through all of this? >> it's true. lukashenko is kind of a miniature putin but they hate each other.
it's a very strange -- very strange situation. lukashenko needs putin to survive. he couldn't survive without him. it's the russian guarantee. and putin is sort of stuck with him. when you see these photographs of when they meet each other, they're very uncomfortable with each other. putin is diminutive, very quiet and lukashenko enormous and loud and bombastic and they just loathe each other. >> why do they loathe each other? >> i think it's the clashing personalities. i think they're such radically different people. and lukashenko made a mess of belarus, particularly over the past year and in his repressions. he's become a pariah across the world and i think that makes putin unbearable but he stuck with him. >> before we let you go, i want to ask you about afghanistan. a place you spent so much time. wrote the extraordinary book "forever war," which will be
sort of an account of that time in american history and afghanistan. but you have also been working behind the scenes to quietly evacuate people from the country. we heard ins ago from the biden administration there are 100 americans left. that doesn't jive what you have seen and the work you've been doing. >> that was crazy. i had to put this story down to finish that. a group of colleagues at "the new yorker" and former government officials, we basically got together because our friends were calling saying, get me out of here. i worked for the united states government. i'm going to be arrested. i'm going to be killed. help me. to be brutally honest about it, the u.s. government was dropping the ball, it wasn't happening. you saw the chaos at the airport for so many weeks. we raised a lot of money and chartered planes and got a lot of people out. but it was difficult. we didn't get a lot of help.
we had to basically kick the doors down of the u.s. government to get some of these people in. but there is still a lot of people there. green card holders there, american citizens are still in there and lots and lots of people who basically threw in their lot with the united states when we invaded that country and kind of risked their lives for the united states are now in danger. >> has the united states misrepresented how many americans are there and people that need to get out? >> there's a lot of people. i don't know what the u.s. government says how many are from still that we're obliged to evacuate, but there's a lot. >> joe? >> dexter, so expanding -- expanding the discussion here, just talking about afghanistan in general, i can think of nobody more qualified to talk about where we are looking at
afghanistan than you because you were there before 9/11. >> long time ago. >> you were up to your neck in reporting well before the september 11 attacks. it gave you a great perspective and gave you perspective -- i remember talking to you, my god, probably 2008, 2009 about going to parts of afghanistan where they're still in the second century. some people never even heard or seen a radio before. so all of that is big, big wind-up to ask you where is afghanistan right now? what do you -- obviously the taliban is not going to be able to neatly and cleanly run this country. where is it now, and where do you see it going over the next five years? >> well, i think there's a really acute situation there right now. i think the economy is essentially imploded. this is an economy that for the last 20 years but really through
most of the history, relied on foreign aid. it's too poor otherwise to get on. that spigot was turned off and economy collapsed. so i think it shrunk by something like 50% over the past year. it's forecast to shrink another 50%. you're talking about just a really, really steep drop. i think we're talking about now with the potential of famine and that usually and probably will mean like enormous refugee folks. i think that's coming very quickly. and so i think as much as everyone would like to forget about the place, i think we left a lot behind there. >> all right. the piece is in the new issue of "the new yorker," dexter filkins, as always, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and thank you so much for the work you've been doing in afghanistan trying to get people out. >> and we've got a big hour ahead. we'll talk to democrat max rose,
who's running to reclaim a seat on capitol hill. how the former congressman plans to tackle some of the swift headwinds facing his party. plus, jacob soboroff always seems to land cool assignments. the latest, trickling through the rain forest, what is left of the fight to protect the natural world. and marking the attack on pearl harbor 80 years later. two of our favorite historians weigh in on how that earth-shattering day has shaped america in the decades since. and when it comes to that memorial day in hawaii, right now a powerful storm system is pounding the state, bringing up to two feet of rain in some places and threats of catastrophic flooding. nbc news correspondent kerry sanders in waikiki beach in honolulu, hawaii, with the latest on the storm's impact on memorial ceremonies.
>> mika, this is not what you expect in hawaii, really horrible weather. the governor here has established a state of emergency, in some cases two inches of rain falling an hour. remember, this is a mountainous area so 15 inches of water collecting coming down the mountains. the real concern right now, of course, are mudslides. there are power outages on the islands in maui. the floodwaters got so strong, they actually picked up parked cars and moved them. this all comes on a day which is december 7th. of course, president roosevelt said december 7th, 1941, a day that will live in infamy. that, of course, is when japan attacked pearl harbor. among those here on the island are those who survived that attack and now have made their way back, they're still alive, 99 years old, up to 103 years old. survivors who want to pay honor to their shipmates who died that
day. despite the weather here, they say they're going to hold ceremonies, they're going to make sure that nobody ever forgets the sacrifice made that day. of course, it was that attack in pearl harbor that drew the united states into world war ii. mika? >> nbc news correspondent kerry sanders reporting from hawaii, thank you very much. and joining us now, author and nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss and best-selling author, hi torrian and presidential biographer craig sherley. his acclaimed book on pearl harbor entitled "december 1941: 130 days that saved america and the world." >> we had you on and talked about november 22, 1963, as probably the most significant day over the past 60 years for changing the arc of american
history in a profoundly negative way. but here we are on the 80th anniversary, can't believe we're on the 80th anniversary. this is one of those days my dad would wake me up every morning, every december 7th, it's december 7th, joey, and we would talk about it at the breakfast table before i went off to school. has there been any event in the past even 150 years that so changed the arc of history and its standing in the world? >> you got it exactly right, joe. and good morning, mika, and good morning everyone. there's a sense that the 7th of december is not only a test of freedom around the world, because if the united states were conquered somehow by japan, freedom would have a very rough time. and also as you all know in the wake of that attack 80 years ago today, there were many people in the use, especially the west
coast, who thought they would be bombed. san francisco, los angeles and elsewhere led to the tragedy of the interment of japanese-americans. the question was, interment was a part of this, would our democracy survive, not only militarily but there were many people who said right after pearl harbor, we americans have to become authoritarian. we have to adopt some elements of dictatorship to compete with societies like nazi germany and imperial japan. and the other question seems almost antique and it's painful for me to even remember it, people were saying can americans unite? because as you all know, right before pearl harbor, this country was divided right down the middle, do we get involved in the war against japan and germany or should we not? the thing that's antique -- and that's why it's so painful to recall -- almost 100% of americans said we're in this fight. tell us what we can do. i wonder if the same thing would
happen today in 2021. >> craig, remarkable book "december 1941" you talk about the three days that changed america and saved the world. for those that really haven't studied the history of pearl harbor and what led up to it, of course, winston churchill was -- and britain was hanging on just by a thread, saving western civilization from adolf hitler. and hitler, of course, in another extraordinarily stupid strategic blunder decided to use this opportunity to declare war on the united states. so we were in it. and as you said, we quickly got launched onto a mission to save the world. >> yes. >> yes, we did. i think -- by the way, hi, michael, how are you and, mika, good morning, everybody. i think the most significant
element of world war ii is we changed radically as a nation from an isolationist country to forever an internationalist country. after a prolonged look at america -- the saying going wrong, [ inaudible ] . we passed an act signed by a democratic congress and president and everybody as of december 6th, 1941, everybody, republicans and democrats, was an isolationist. in fact, in the 1940 camp fdr said he would never send american boys to a european war. another significant development too is after december 7th, the declaration of war, although there was discussion in the roosevelt white house to declare war on germany and italy and also make it one fell swoop, they decided against that and we only declared war on japan on
december 8th and we didn't declare war on germany until december 11th, after you mentioned correctly, obviously, they were foolish enough to declare war on us, which really put us into a third world war. we may not have gotten into the world war if germany and bulgari, by the way, declared war on us december 11th. and now we're truly an internationalist country and have been for the last eight years. >> michael, you and craig and jon meacham have written about the pleas, almost love letters from winston churchill to fdr in 1940 and 1941, please, please, please get in the war. please help us. europe will fall. the world may fall after it.
as joe said, great britain was hanging on by a thread at the time to pearl harbor and that brought the united states into the war. as you think about an alternate history where pearl harbor doesn't happen, does the united states ever enter the war, and what happens from there if not? >> it really is possible, willie. by the way, my compliments to the vanderbilt history department that helped teach you these things and stimulate your interest. >> a little donation there. thank you for doing that. >> absolutely. mika and i will have a word for williams college in a moment. >> yes. >> but the thing is there was such a feeling in 1941 that only pearl harbor could have brought american almost united into world war ii against nazi germany that there was such a thing in 1941 even called a conspiracy theory. there was some americans who said, therefore, that means the reason why fdr put all of those big ships in a row at pearl
harbor was he wanted there to be an attack that would shock americans and anger them into joining a war against nazi germany that they otherwise would not be in favor of. as it happens, i would say that roosevelt made a big mistake by putting those boats there. he thought it would be a deterrent. he thought there was no way japanese would ever dare to bomb them. but in the spirit of 1941 fairly few people, but some did, fairly few, a minority, had the conspiracy theory saying fdr deliberately encouraged pearl harbor to get into the war. once again, advance the clock, willie, to 2021, if this happened this year, how many people in america would believe that conspiracy theory? >> and by the way, that's a conspiracy theory that i think all of us heard growing up, that fdr knew about it. it just shows you there's always been these conspiracy theories.
craig, as remarkable obviously, and we've talked about the remarkable job that our men in uniform did on that day in moving forward, but i want to talk about america going to war. it's one of the extraordinary stories. churchill had lord dever brook, a man who was as much despised by polite society, but he used him to help mobilize the country, industrial base. talk about the extraordinary industrialization when detroit went to war, when america went to war, following december 7th. >> you know, that's a great question, joe, it became instantly a country and destroyed the democracy, fdr said. within three weeks of december
7th, detroit, ford motor company, ford motor company and tires, used cars to fabricate b-24s and b-25s for the end of the fight. that was just three weeks after the war. they were manufacturing planes for combat. we changed the country. i used to think victory guards were somewhat of a pr ploy. i remember mentioning this to mother, and she got mad, she said i had a victory garden. i did a little research and i found out as of 1944, something like one third of all vegetables growth in america were grown in victory gardens in backyards and farms and things like that. everything was going for the war. everything was going to the soldiers, to feed them. everything was going to feed them. it was truly a national effort. something we've never seen
before and most likely we will never see again, even after september 11. america was completely unified. there was nobody against going to war as of the afternoon on december 7th, 1941. another thing is america's first movement was a potent political force in america. they actually pledged in the summer of 1941 to run candidates in every congressional district in america, but didn't take a pledge to not go to war in europe until they felt the candidates in all of the countries were led -- you mentioned conspiracy theories, some of the proponents a congresswoman from connecticut and a senator from montana, they were two of the greatest components of conspiracy that propelled us to pearl harbor in world war ii.
>> all right. craig shirley, presidential historian, author of "december 1941: three days that changed america and saved the world" and michael beschloss, thank you very much for being on this morning to mark the day. california republican devin nunes announced they would resign from congress next month to become the ceo of donald trump's fledgling media company. nunes was a dairy farmer before 2003. it was revealed his company plans to merge with trump's company is being investigated by the seg. nunes emerged as one of the president's chief defenders in congress. as chairman of the house intelligence committee, nunes had to recuse himself from the russian investigation in part because he was too close to
trump to be impartial. compare nunes to another republican congressman, one who thought he could lead his party back from the brink but who now laughs at just how naive he was to believe that's possible. joining us staff writer at the "the atlantic," jim alberta as part of the magazine's special coverage of "american democracy in crisis," he profiles peter meyer and his attempts to force a reckoning in his own party. also with us for this conversation, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst susan del percio. thank you very much, susan, for being with us. susan, let's start with the concept you're writing about. how would it have been possible to bring the gop and bring this country back from the brink from one person's perspective, from one member's perspective? >> morning, mika. i think that's the key is from
this one member's perspective. on his third day at work, peter meyer, a 33-year-old freshman congressman, was looking for the bathroom when insurgents began to lay siege to the house chamber. and he was still getting his bearings and trying to figure out literally where the bathroom is and he realizes that the capitol is under attack. i think for someone in that position, particularly for somebody like meyer who is young and idealist and really can be said got into politics and government for the right reasons, wanting to do the right then. this was to him such an obvious watershed in his young career. he truly believed that nobody of goodwill in his party would be able to turn a blind eye to january 6th and he believed in the aftermath on the attack of
the capitol that he would be part of this sort of uprising in the party to arrest back control away from donald trump and extremist wing of the gop, and he was the only freshman to cast that vote a week later to impeach trump. and, in fact, what i found in spending so much time with him in the year since taking that vote is that meyer has sort of looked around and realized essentially that he and the other nine republicans in the house who took that vote, are really never going to see the reinforcements coming that he once hoped were right behind them. >> good morning, it's willie. you write about that in the piece suddenly congressman meyer felt naive for thinking we all watched this happen, this is obviously and clearly bad, let's go object to it. and then voting one of ten house republicans for impeachment as they say moving forward and looking back and seeing no one else behind them in the republican party. his assessment of where the
party is and how things may, or frankly, may not change. >> willie, what's been so interesting is to have these conversations with meyer over a sustained period of time here and watch his own evolution of sorts from thinking the momentum was on his side and on the side of the reformers if you will in the party, to beginning to sort of doubt that because of all of the pushback and all of the anger and vitriol he encountered back home. he was censured by two of the parties back home. the chairman of the republican party joked about meyer being assassinated. this got really bad in the first few months he took that vote for impeachment. you can sort of watch his own political journey in the months following january 6th and kind of see it as a proxy for the mentality of any number of republicans who might have believed there was an opportunity there to have a real reckoning and confront these demons head on after january
6th, and then who started not only to back away from it but started to question whether that reckoning was even really necessary and certainly question whether it would work, whether they would ever have sort of the raw numbers on their side to be willing to go to war with the other side of the party. i think what you see in meyer is a guy who's not just begun to sort of second guess himself in that regard but who has really gained i think the clarity in looking around and realizing those reinforcements are not coming, and furthermore, the other side, whereas his side is unilaterally disarming, the other side leaving congress, the other side is gurding up for war and it seems like they're building up their forces where at the same time his side is sort of stepping down. >> susan, we talked about this so long for the last several
months why republicans couldn't make january 6th the breaking point and turning their back. and he gets this response from the congress -- he believes most of his colleagues want to be with him. they whisper courage and they're cheering for his side but what stops them is fear, the fear for the safety of their families and careers. they're being threatened, they will lose their jobs, all of these things. they're operating from a place of fear of donald trump and those who support them. >> and they're not wrong to operate from that level. what concerns me is when decent people stop running for office, who shows up? and we're getting a look at that when it comes to marjorie taylor greene. the other thing after you just read in tim's piece, when congressman meyer describes himself right now, he says, i'm just trying to survive. and i think as still a republican, and i question that decision every day, but you are trying to survive and hoping
that you can bring some thoughtful conversation whenever the opportunity may arise. and again in that piece congressman meyer is talking to students and that really got me in saying like why are you a republican? and he really had to struggle to twist himself to say it's the principles and not the fear and the hate. >> eddie, a lot of these people who did vote to impeach are walking away. adam kinzinger, anthony gonzalez and others have said, i'm out. >> public life seems to be too toxic of a risk or too high, so why take the chance? tim, i wanted to ask you this question because it seems to be very personal. there's a moment in the piece where you talk about a representative's sister and the way he sees her and how he reads congresswoman marjorie taylor greene and the way he's hesitant to name kevin mccarthy, to go back to the earlier point you made. so there's an intimacy to what he sees here happening in the republican party and his family.
talk a little bit about that personal dimension to all of this as well. >> yeah, very much so, eddie. the most poignant moments of our interviews, and we spend a lot of time together, congressman and i over the fall talking about this, the most poignant moments are when he opened up to me about his sister who he described as someone who really had become part of the sort of trump cultist conspiracy, particularly after the election in which meyer was watching these hearings around the country with rudy giuliani and some of the president's team and he's thinking, who can possibly be believing this stuff? and then he realizes his sister is believing this stuff, and his sister has become not only sort of a die-hard believer in some of these election conspiracies but also interested in qanon and some of these other things that have affected millions of americans and something we're just now i think beginning to
grapple with, how prevalent they are and the damage it's doing to the political and culture fabric. so meyer had to go to work every day alongside marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz and paul gosar, people who are profiting politically and otherwise, off disseminating dangerous conspiracy theories that are doing real harm to people like his sister. and meyer had this quote to me in the piece that was just -- i felt so powerful, he said paul gosar didn't get killed january 6th, ashli babbitt did. it's not the people in congress who are stirring this up for sport who have to deal with the consequences, it's people like my sister. >> you know, tim, i have friends, a lot of friends in that category as well. if people want to understand why they do it, you alluded to it,
they do it for profit. they do it for political profit. they do it for money. look at "the washington post" story this morning about -- i can't believe i forgot her name, thank god i did, the trump lawyer, the woman who, you know, lied, spread lies, went into court. she started her own fund-raising outfit. she raised $14 million just over lying, spreading conspiracy theories. and so, yeah, she's doing it for the money. all of these people, all of these congress people you mentioned, they raise extraordinary amounts of money based on lies and hatred. tim, there's money in it. >> there's a lot of money in it. there's a lot of cache in it. there's a lot of clout and relevancy in it in today's party and that's what makes this
frustrating for a young guy like peter meyer. he's note totally naive when he enters the game. he understands there will be challenges here. when he looks around and realizes his fellow freshman, marjorie taylor greene, is the highest grossing fund-raiser of any house republican in congress, not because of any of the work she's done on committees, not because of anything productive she's contributed to the use congress, but simply because she is the loudest and observe the craziest voice in the room. whereas he contrasts that to some of the other members like him who voted for impeach. and these are people who have seen their fund-raising dry up, their friends stop calling and supporting them. they've seen people back home issuing threats to themselves and their families. they look around, joe, understandably and say what am i doing here? why is it so worth it to me when i'm so outgunned and outmanned and all of the momentum and all of the incentives really exist on the other side of this
argument? >> tim alberta, thank you so much. we will be reading your new piece for "the atlantic" magazine. we appreciate you coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe" -- the island of puerto rico is providing much-needed optimism when it comes to the push to protect and rehabilitate the natural world. jacob soboroff's got a firsthand look from the top of a jungle peak and joins us next on "morning joe." vo: just getting by, it's an ongoing struggle. that's why president biden and democrats in congress have a plan to lower costs for america's working families. lower costs of healthcare premiums and the price of prescription drugs. pay less for electric bills by moving to clean energy. and do it all by making the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share of taxes. it'd be a win for the everyday american family. right when they could really use one.
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centers investigation network. rain forests are under threat, but it's not all bad news. jacob soboroff is here with how one rain forest came roaring back and here to share it with us. you went to one of the most beautiful places on earth. >> really, really, i did and scientists agree the destruction of the tropical rain forest is a threat to the earth as we know it, study published by norway forest investigation earlier this year. two-thirds have been destroyed by human beings, exacerbates species loss, client change but there are signs of hope for earth's tropical rain forest, the planet and humanity. tropical rain forests cover only 7% of the earth's surface. but they're home to more than half of the planet's biodiversity, including on the island of puerto rico, where you will find el druky, one of the world's fallest rain forest and only one managed by the u.s. forest service.
this part of the forest is closed to the public. exactly so this type of vegetation can grow and thrive. we hiked deep into the rain forest, to its highest elevation. more than 3,500 feet above sea level with dr. brazill gonzalez for the national forest. these are untouched? >> yes. >> reporter: you'll finds thousands of native plants and species found nowhere else on earth. i think this is so unbelievably spectacular. can we just stand here and listen? >> yes. >> reporter: it's pretty cool. over a century ago, puerto rico used to look like this. over 70% of the island was covered in forest but beginning in the 1800s was cleared to make way for farming and in the low point in the 1940s, only 70% of the island was forested. today it's as if a miracle
happened. was this really only some of the remaining rain forest on the entire island? >> yes, at the top of the mountain. >> reporter: now what's the latest status here? >> if you look at the latest description of forest covering the island, we're at 65%. so we're back full circle. >> reporter: to understand that we went to a mountainous region that used to be known for exporting coffee all over the world but that changed. port reekian farmers moved to land in the u.s. they help support remaining farmers after seeing thousands leave. >> they have moved and looked for better opportunities. >> reporter: the migration gave the forest an opportunity to grow again. then four years ago hurricane maria devastated the farms that were left. carmen rujon is a third generation coffee grower. is it easy to be a farmer here in puerto rico? >> lately it's been very, very hard. we can look at that mountain.
that used to be two things grown there, coffee and citrine. now you only see forest. >> reporter: today this scientist gonzalez works with farmers to make sure their crops and the rain forest can coexist. it's a method he believes will help other countries impacted by deforestation. it seems like when people left the land generations ago, they did so because it didn't seem like there was economic opportunity left. you're saying economic opportunity and reforestation are not mutually exclusive? >> definitely. what we are promoting here is a combination between agriculture and forest is possible and it could be lucrative for the family. >> reporter: we looked down at the line at new forest that grew on the farmland meets the ancient and untouched rain forest. >> so you see where the darker lines of vegetation are, you see now the recovery of the forest.
>> reporter: in other words, if you want to understand what it looks like to see a rain forest come back, you're looking at it. >> and it's just so beautiful. i can't wait to get back. good morning to my in-laws watching from puerto rico, by the way. they're down there. let's talk about that, that number that caught all of our attention. 70% in the 1940s and now 65% forested. is that something we can scale to other parts of the world? >> that's the idea. this year at that climate conference in scotland, the world's nations pledged to end deforestation by 2030 but what we learned from the scientists is circumstances were unique in puerto rico. there was lack of economic opportunity. u.s. citizens and many moved to the mainland u.s. here in search of that opportunity. so it left abandoned farmland. with policy they were able to basically mitigate the deforestation and allow the forest to grow back. so it's on a country-by-country basically level. they have to decide what they want to do with that land. >> do you think -- we're talking as you point out in the piece, it's a relatively small rain
forest. >> one of the smallest in the world. >> do you think this is possible in the amazon and places where the problem is so acute? >> if they can convince, big if, policymakers that farming and regrowth of rain forest can coexist, it's absolutely possible. >> let's hope so. jacob soboroff, next time call me and i will produce the piece for you. >> will do. coming up -- you probably heard the name medina spart and controversy at the kentucky derby. the champion racehorse who failed the drug test after winning that event has died. details next on "morning joe." ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪
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thompson reports, the 3-year-old colt collapsed during a workout yesterday in california. >> bob baffert does it again! medina spirit has won the kentucky derby! >> reporter: just seven months after his victorious run for the roses at this year's kentucky derby, star racehorse medina spirit has died on the track. the thoroughbred suffering an apparent heart attack monday, collapsing near the finish line after a routine workout at the santa anita racetrack in southern california. >> you can see the horse almost appear rubber-legged, some weak-legged, came to a walk and just laid down and expired. >> reporter: his trainer bob baffert mourning the sudden loss, writing medina spirit was a great champion, a member of our family won by all. the 3-year-old colt won half of his ten year starts, earnings
totaling $10.5 million. but his career was not without controversy. after a winner this year, he tested positive for 21 picograms of betamethasone, which was banned on race day. bob baffert was suspended and barred from entering races for two years. at the time baffert denied training horses with the drug. >> it's the bigot gut punch of my life to have a positive kentucky derby, but i did not give that medication. so that's where we're trying to figure out how did it get in his system? >> reporter: despite the positive test, medina spirit was cleared to run in the preakness stakes later that month, earning a third place finish, but the horse was barred from running in the final leg of the triple crown, the belmont stakes. in a new statement, baffert's lawyer telling nbc news, further testing shows that the
betamethasone found in medina spirit's system came from an ointment used to treat a skin condition and not an injection. and this morning the mystery continuing, with questions surrounding the surprising death of the 3-year-old horse. just months after that disputed derby win. >> that was nbc news correspondent anne thompson reporting. coming up -- max rose is itching for a rematch. the former congressman challenging the republican who beat him last year. the combat veteran joins the conversation just ahead on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪
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the worst crisis we've ever seen lands on our door step and then the next day another one. the alarm bells, they never stop ringing. and the people we trust to fix it, they divide us. they lie to us. tearing america apart just to hold on to power. eye look at all of that and it's easy to think maybe our best days are behind us. that nothing will change. well, i disagree. >> that is former democratic congressman max rose launching a campaign to recapture his congressional seat. a rematch between nicole malliotakis in new york district. the veteran in a war of afghanistan, the recipient of the purple heart. max, great to see you. >> great to see you, too. >> you're only 13 months from losing 8,000 votes.
you lost the seat there. why are you jumping back in. >> as i said in the video, new yorkers are hit crisis after crisis after crisis and folks are exhausted. we have to beat back this pandemic, we have to get our damn lives back when all said and done. in my mind, in the crisis, leadership, not just the next election, a donor, not thinking what a former president wants them to do or not do. when you look at the state of the republican party as politically craving as it is it will go as far as to tear this country apart just to try to hold on to power, that is a party that has become quintessentially, not all of them, but quintessentially, all-american to its core. i've spent my whole life, whether afghanistan, pentagon or congress doing what i thought was right. consequences began, i've got the scars literally and figuratively
to prove that. it is my sincere belief that's the type that we need. >> you've got a rematch here, it's like a college football game, you see them later in the year. what did you learn from your first opponent and what will you do differently this time? >> when you look at what's happened from the last year, the republican party, many of them have spent their time defending january 6th cop killers. they chose to defend an insurrection that try to build the country we all know is possible. there were significant lies thrown. and last time around, i sincerely believe they won't have trump's coattails this time. we need solution thinking and we need to earn people's trust. you look at last year, whether the american rescue plan, whether the infrastructure bill, whether what we're doing on the
precipice, putting money in people's pockets, lowering the costs of that which we care about most, significant stuff. we can't demean new yorkers, we can't demean the american people. that's elitist. we've got to focus on results go door to door, and talk to people. that's important. >> max, what i enjoyed during your time in office, you always kept things local. no matter how big the things were in washington, you really looked to deliver for your district. now looking, 13 months later, do you think there's anything that's been left aside that you'd like to see completed, or whether it's the infrastructure money, what would you like to see done in your district? and how will you, if the republicans do win the majority, how will you work to get something done and work with others? because that is something else that was one of your trademarks, you were always willing to have a conversation. >> absolutely. and look at what's happen right
now. that's what's so disappointing just several weeks ago, maybe less, so many members of the republican caucus in the house voted to shut down the federal government just to prevent the president from getting a win. just to prevent people from getting the vaccines that we so desperately need to beat back the pandemic. when i did in office, i tried to do the right thing, irrespective of what party was behind it, irrespective of what leader was behind it. i do believe there's many members behind closed doors continue to want inflation to go up because they know that is a political win. they're rooting against america, not for america. i will never be that person. we can't just consistently kick the can down the road and waiting till our party has the keys to the house before we can actually work and service the american people. i'd never do that. >> so, max, if you win, you've got to enter into a house of representatives, a democratic party, a democratic house, if
they hold it that's in some ways contentious. where would you land? you mentioned build back better, but where would you land in terms of george floyd, policing act? where would you land in terms of voting rights? but the nationalists, you will sit squarely on those debates that are in the party. where would you land? >> you just don't have to take my word, look at my voting record. i'm a supporter -- while i'm againstdefunding the police, i'm a supporter of justice for all. some say i lost my seat for that. and some salem defeat the polls, but my finger to the wind, let me think about the next election. we also have to do what's right. and if we had people in congress acting like that right now, think about what we could do to
bring this country together, crisis after crisis after crisis. you look at build back better, plain and simple, that is a bill that puts money in people's pockets and lowers the costs for what people desperately need. shame on us, this is historic stuff, to get across the finish line, but then to take a deep breath and actually explain to the american people, push to the american people, earn their trust to show them this is what it tackling things like inflation. >> so, max, the city you're about to serve again is about to get a new mayor. three weeks from now, eric adams will be sworn in after two terms of mayor de blasio. what do you see in his campaign that tells you he'll be a different kind of mayor? >> my friend, it can't come soon enough. i'm such a believer in eric adams. and the reason why i'm such a
believer in him, he's rejecting the political strengths that underpin the question that you asked me before, that somehow you can't be for safety for all and justice for all. that somehow, you can't be for economic development and economic growth, while at the same time believing that working people in this country need a fair shot. need opportunity for all. that you can't be for something like innovation, while at the same time saying that we shouldn't have homeless people on the street. eric adams is going to do some really significant things in this city. what we need, though, is this present mayor to stop with any last-minute announcements, okay? and to focus on a smooth transition. >> i was going to ask about that, what do you think of this vaccine mandate from mayor de blasio? >> i caught your notes. so, ultimately, this announcement is illustrate
the that you can't do it just with a head line. i am a believer of vaccines that we use all at our disposal to beat back this pandemic, so long as we do it in a collaborative manner and in a legal manner. but the democratic party also have to stop acting like masks affront. we have to unite around the fact that we have to get out of this pandemic. we have to unite around the fact that we have to get our lives back. >> we've got to leave it there. we'll be talking to you much more over the course of next year. max rose looking to take back his seat in new york. that does it for us. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hey there. i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is tuesday, december 7th. we have a lot to get