tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC December 27, 2021 10:00pm-11:00pm PST
relationships, archbishop tutu was proudly prolgbtq. a decade ago he would rather go to hell than a homo phobic heaven. he championed palestinian he championed palestinian rights even going so far as likening their condition under israel's occupation to south africa's apartheid. take your pick of an injustice around the world and i bet he has spoken up about it and years before it was popular to do so. archbishop desmond tutu passed away on saturday. he was a leader for the successful fight for quality in africa. it is equally important to mourn his loss as one of the last respected moral voices for the struggle for equality all around the world today.
now time for the last word. good evening, jonathan. >> what a wonderful tribute to bishop tutu. your fabulous podcast, all of the episodes are out, you walked on it for a year and i am wondering since it dovetails with what we are going to talk about at the start of the show, has the radicalization that you have been reporting on for the last year, do you think that things have gotten more radical? >> first of all, thank you. that is a great question. radicalization is trending upward in this country and everyone should be concerned about what is happening in various corners of not just the dark web but happening in plain sight when you see politicians and others perpetuating the big lie, using that to stop division and violence. that is something we should be
concerned about. this is echoed by officials in law-enforcement when you have the fbi and others warning congress about online radicalization. >> thank you very much. we begin with the reason why the january 6 select committee exists. it was designed to stop future two attempts and every record request, interview and subpoena we have reported on has the same goal, to better understand what happened on january 6th so that it doesn't happen again. as we approach the one-year anniversary of that day, we are seeing that the groundwork for another coup attempt is already been laid. the trump mop is just as angry as ever, fueled by the same lies and hate that led to the insurrection. the dad who called in to the norad center tracking system with his kid and then slid in an insult to the president before hanging up.
today, that guy told steve bannon that he doesn't even believe that joe biden is president. >> donald trump is president right now. >> that is a lie but it is a lie a lot of republicans believe thanks to steve gannon and congressional republicans and of course trump himself. it is a lie that is still being pushed today. here is january 6 defendant danny rodriguez who is accused of teasing an officer, crying and repentant when confronted with the consequences of his actions. >> why did you do that? i don't know, i'm sorry. he was a human being with children. he is not a bad guy, sounds like, he's just doing his job and i'm -- >> some of them seemed genuinely upset that they were brainwashed but they only came
to that point after carrying out a violent assault on the capitol that others have faced the consequences for. it is a major concern when we start hearing rhetoric again like we did in the days before january 6. especially when it is coming from elected officials like house republican louie gohmert who said last week at the right wing turning point conference in phoenix that he believes in second amendment solutions. >> i think we are. >> i'm still in it because i think we can pierce you back on january 6, some people came to the capitol hoping the to kill nancy pelosi and mike pence. when unelected republicans agreed to stop problems with potential violence, that needs to be addressed head-on. what he said is wrong if you get people killed. trump flirted with violence for years, remember?
he suggested, second amendment people could take care of hillary clinton. it is not 2016 anymore, it is 2022. almost 2022. a segment of the american public has been radicalized over the last six years if not longer by trumping republicans who, like louie gohmert, don't care what they say or how badly they agon people to commit violent acts. that is why the january 6 select committee is so important. time is running out. americans have been radicalized and they are being pushed to action all the time by a group of unhinged conservatives who care more about power and profit then safety and security and doing what is right. we need to know the truth before it is too late. leading off our discussion tonight is democratic congressman joe negus of colorado. he served in the second
impeachment trial of donald trumble donald trump. we have seeing with this kind of rhetoric can go. why are they still pushing it? it's >> it is good to be with you. taking a step back, we will mark one year since the pilot must take attack on the congress in january 6. it was the worst assault on our capitol since the war of 1812. there are many of us who warned through the impeachment trial that we are facing a radically new threat and the kind of forces that combined to attack our government. i believe as you said that the future of our democracy is on the line. i do not know why they have been stoking the flames but many of the stories that you reference demonstrate or crystallize the way in which those forces and
the misinformation including the big lie about the 2020 election has metastasized. much of that has not been on the front page of the newspapers but over time. the disinformation has permeated the minds of more and more americans and that is in no small part due to social media. it is disconcerting and it should concern every american and all the more reason why the january 6 commissions work is so critically important for the future of our country. >> you think it has metastasized to the point where we could see another january 6 style insurrection? >> it. -- that is a fear that i have and that many of my colleagues share. it was an attempt to disrupt the peaceful transition of power. if we don't take the threat seriously, it could very well
happen again as we warned during the course of the second impeachment trial, as you reference. that is why be established to slot committee, because we needed a comprehensive investigation to see who courted the tach, who paid for it, how they attempted to overthrow an election. they failed in doing that. how can we organize ourselves to prevent anything like this from happening again. >> was talk about the january 6 committees select investigation. i want to listen to claire mccaskill earlier on our today. >> we know trump was watching tv. he watched tv all day long for 4 years. he watched all of the channels. we can go through and we can put the images at a specific time and we can then fill in the text messages, the phone calls that were flooding the white house saying get him to call them off, give me those
facts, give me those timelines and give me a jury. >> that -- she laid out an incredible set of things that i hope the committee is doing but what is the benefit of a time line like this. >> i have great respect for the former senator and i think much of what she described, the impeachment trial ultimately did did work in terms of compiling the timeline. i suspect that the committee is doing what she has described, putting together by virtual of the document request that they have gathered so far, putting together those missing pieces so the congress can understand what happened on that day and obviously the inaction of the president in a critical few
hours during the course of that assault on the capitol is dereliction of duty under the constitution in terms of not taking steps to stop the attack. obviously there's a lot for us to learn about the weaponization of the department of justice that happened during the course of the entire administration vis-@-vis what happened on january 6. we are going to have answers to those questions in the coming months. >> the anniversary of the insurrection is next week and i'm wondering where will you be on january 6th, 2022? >> i will be in washington. i think it is important for all of us to take a step back and reflect about the events of january 6, 2021. i was in the house that day, on the house for during the attack on the capitol and obviously it was a harrowing day for our country, for the congress, and
for our republic. i will be watching with my colleagues and we will be doing the people's work. >> congressman joe neguse , thank you for coming to the last word. joining us, former acting u.s. solicitor general and msnbc legal contributor. january 6 committee thompson said that they are investigating trumps silence during the attack and that dereliction of duty causes us real concern. if a criminal referral would be warranted, there'd be no reluctance on the part of this committee to do that. so, what kind of evidence with the committee need before issuing a criminal referral? >> a criminal referral would occur if the committee finds that trump either by action or inaction violated the criminal statute and i think the most likely criminal statute is one
that representative cheney has artie referenced which is 1512 statute that says that if you are objecting to obstructing official proceeding, that is a federal felony and has been used successfully against some of the january 6th insurrectionist and several trump appointed judges have already appointed or approved the use of these charges for the january 6 attack. for example, the conversation happening with the congressman, if the president sat on his hands watching tv instead of as mccaskill said in not doing anything because he had a certain intent which was to obstruct the official count on january 6, absolutely that is a federal crime. congress is well within its rights to refer that to the justice department but the most important thing is what you started the show with, which is we have to get to the bottom
and find out what happened. right now, the trump folks are all coming up and claiming privileges because they are afraid to tell the truth before the committee. if we can't get to the bottom of what happened on january 6, i don't know what congress is for. it is done every investigation of importance, whether it is benghazi, or iran-contra or even that the 9/11 committee. if i officials can get away with helping facilitate this kind of armed attack on our capitol, what can you get away with? of course we should get to the bottom of this. >> the january 6 committee is investigating but there is another entity sitting out there that could also, doesn't have to wait for that criminal referral and that is the department of justice. where is the department of justice in all of this?
claire mccaskill earlier was saying, they might be doing things that we don't know about and i look forward to apologizing to attorney general garland when that time comes when they reveal what they're doing but until that time, what are you doing? what is taking so long? are we right to be asking that question of the doj? >> certainly right to ask a question but in an ideal world the best solution is that the justice department is thoroughly investigating these things and you and i and nobody else knows about it because that is the way law-enforcement investigations are supposed to be. the truth is every time we have fbi agents or whatever say to ask questions you generally hear from the person who is being asked the questions of or their counsel, they talk to the media or something and say, there is an ongoing investigation. we haven't heard that. i respect what matt miller has said.
if there isn't an investigation i think that would be unforgivable. if they are saying that there is an investigation that we have to keep it quiet, that is one thing. if there waiting until congress pursues its investigation, i think that might be potentially understandable but my view is that there's nothing more important. this is what the department of justice is for, to investigate these kinds of high-level wrongdoings. we already have evidence that there is a crime going on here and a cover-up. every trump aid is going before and filing a lawsuit saying i don't want to tell the truth to this congressional committee and they say because the congressional committee is bias. if you think they're biased, fine, but that doesn't give you a right to hide evidence from the american people or the congress. if you want to disagree with the congresses decision, go ahead and do that but don't climb up and be afraid to tell the truth before the committee which is what these folks are
doing. >> let make it your view on another one of these people. nbc news is reporting that trump's spokesperson is sowing the committee to block access to his financial records. why would he do that? what could this committee learned from his financials? >> this is another lawsuit by spokesperson afraid to testify under oath. i hope that they are getting a wholesale discount on these lawsuits. it is the same flimsy argument, they're putting all their eggs in kind of a wicker basket and i don't think it is going to offer any protections. he's saying the congressional committee wants to know where i got these $200,000 from and so i will plead provision not provide that. this is financial information that has nothing to do with the functioning of the executive branch of the presidency, which
is what the executive privilege claims that trump is trying and seemed to litigate. this is going nowhere. this is all about delay. his argument essentially, i don't trust congress, therefore i don't have to give them this information. that would be nice, every time we face an investigation, we can say we don't trust the investigator. that is and shut the books on this argument. you can argue about it afterwards. >> i hope to never face a federal investigation. thank you so much for joining us tonight. up next, rudy giuliani is facing new legal trouble, this time in georgia for helping trump pushes big lie that the 2020 election was stolen. one of the cofounders of black voters matter will join me. with comic-con searching and
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>> this time last year, georgia election worker had a christmas card saying, please report to the fbi and tell them you committed voter fraud. if not, you will be fired. that was according to a defamation lawsuit filed last week and rudy giuliani for pushing the big lie. they were accused of manipulating election ballots by the former president's lawyer. according to the lawsuit, ms. freeman and miss moss have become the object of vitriol, threats and harassment. they found themselves not based
on anything they did but instead because of a campaign malicious lives designed to accuse them of interfering with a fair and impartial election. this lawsuit, among many others, has proven to be a major consequence of spreading the big lie. if there is another sinister consequence, voter suppression and. in lincoln county georgia where 29% of the population is black, officials are moving to close all but one of its seven polling places as a result of george's photo restrictions law passed last year. joining us now is cliff albright cofounder of black voters matter. i will want everyone to listen to a 911 call ruby freeman played on january 4th after a woman later identified as kanye west publicists arrived at her
home asking her to confess to election fraud. >> they kept saying that time is running out and i will need some representation. they are saying i need help and they could help me because they said that her coming after me. >> do you know who these people are? >> no, that is why one of the police to come and i go outside to talk with the police there. >> what is your reaction to the threats that they face? >> thanks for having me, jonathan. we have been saying all year now that when you look at the voter spreads both in terms of legislation and the wider narrative, that one of the most dangerous aspects -- all of it is bad, criminalizing giving out giving food and water. criminalizing officials that send out ballots to people. there's been this attack on
local boards of elections, and on local election officials, like ms. freeman. what is happening with ms. freeman is bad, and a different kind of universe, in a multi- verse, and might even be comical that tonya's publicist is delivering the message, but as bad as that is it is a bigger issue, the wider attack on taking over local boards of elections, on being able to overturn elections, being able to do exactly what donald trump wanted the georgia secretary of state to do but he didn't do because the law wasn't on his side. now they would be able to do that. this is part of a much wider and ominous story about a tax on election officials peers are you concerned about what these mean for polling places during the 2022 midterms and beyond? >> we are very concerned.
and again that is what we have been saying all along. that is with some of the newer aspects which was actually added in. this is been built and the most recent legislation. we are very concerned about it. at the end of the day, there is this thing about out organizing voter suppression. we can go out and touch all of the voters multiple times and have persuasive messages and get all of the votes out but if we overcome all of the other stuff, the voter i.d. and the attacks on voter by mail, the food and water, if we overcome all of that, if republicans have the ability to simply throw out ballots like they tried to do in georgia, in michigan, in detroit, if
they're able to do that there is no out organizing that. that is the thing we have been most concerned about. >> i mentioned in the intro and that is what is happening in lincoln county and i want to get your reaction to lincoln county officials that the move to close six out of the seven polling places in lincoln county will make voting easier and more accessible and eliminate the need to transport equipment and staff to the other sites? >> your reaction to that. >> we have been down this path before. a couple of years ago it was randolph county where they were trying to close seven out of nine polling places. we were able to stop in a credible coalition of folks. this has been a continuation of that. they are always trying to find these new excuses on why it is
they need to close down all of the polling places and it just so happens we are closing down in your communities and in your counties. sometimes they say it is because of financial management, we don't have the resources. as if it would be easier for folks to have dozens of miles to get to the one polling place. that one polling place happens to be at the courthouse which for many members putting aside the transportation issue, that is not always a welcoming environment. that is why the folks have access to polling places right there in the communities. you would not be able to see this if we had things like this if we had the voting act.
>> i wish we had more time. we've got to go. the cofounder of black voters matter, cliff albright. coming up, with homework on cases surgeon, it is clear that the u.s. is in the throes of an after covid winter. now the unvaccinated or people who have refused the vaccine in some cases have lashed out at the people trying to save their lives. dr. rob davison joins us to next. clara yes, please! neuriva. think bigger.
83% increase from two weeks ago. despite the certain cases, today the cdc shortened the recommendation for isolated times for those that test positive if they are asymptomatic and continue to mask. the reasoning is to minimize disruptions in the second covid winter. many people who are overwhelming the hospitals are people who have refused the vaccine and also because of headlines like this. michigan doctors, nurses report violence, hostility and mid covid-19 surge. dr. rob davidson is an emergency room doctor in michigan and the executive director of the community to protect healthcare. you recently wrote an op-ed in the new york times about your experience at your hospital in rural michigan.
>> we are deeply mired in the delta search here in western michigan. our hospitalizations are not at all time highs but this is more than anything we have seeing. it is still a challenge every day. i am in a county where about 45% of people are unvaccinated. we expect to see omicron hit us hard. we are hopeful that the cases are left severe but we don't think this has been tried and very low vaccination areas. we have seeing it in the uk, in big cities on the coasts. we are concerned if delta doesn't completely let up, what our cron will bring. >> i'm surprised to hear you say that your hospital beds and everything are filled with
people that have covid but because of the delta variant. we are all talking about omicron. how concerned are you? let me ask the question this way, your experience today, how different is it from last december? >> in a personal way i am protected, i have been vaccinated. my wife is a family doctor, she has as well. i don't feel like i can infect them or i am at significant risk. it is different now because so many of my patients i've been taking care of for 20 years who have refused this vaccine, they come in and get angry with me. i had a patient suggest to me that i was going to give them covid because we get paid action when they do that. one patient said, i will come
back with my nine millimeter and we had to call the police because they didn't like their weight time. we thought with the advent of vaccines that, we naovely high- fived when we came out of the last wave. we are thinking, all right, we have done it. the waves will be over because people will get vaccinated but it is not happening around here . >> patients you have been treating for 20 years are not getting vaccinated. you have been there doctor. they're supposed to be a trust between the two of you. how does that make you feel to know the suitable who you thought trusted you don't trust you when it comes to something as vital as this. >> i am frustrated with the
individuals, with their decisions because i know it is hurting them, it is hurting all of us, it is hurting people without covid that cannot get in. i am mad at the folks out there perpetrating the misinformation. the senators like ron johnson or those that say that natural immunity is better than the vaccine and refuse to get vaccinated. they are spending every day undermining our efforts. their brains have been transformed to listen to all that noise and discount what i tell them, much my wife has been telling them and what we have all been telling him. >> thank you for coming back to the last word. the pandemic travel over
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the superfast omicron search collided with christmas travel. an estimated 10,000 flights were canceled across the job. at least 2600 more flights were canceled monday including about 1000 u.s. flights. several major airlines have said 90% or more of their staff are vaccinated. vaccinations are not required for domestic travel but dr. anthony fauci says that's there should be a mandate peers if you want to do that with the massive floods, that should be seriously considered peers president of the atmosphere research group, welcome.
airlines canceled dozens of funds because sony flight personnel were testing positive for the coronavirus. how long might this situation last? >> thanks for including me. it is a substantial challenge because this is happening at christmas and new year's. the individual affect of this on airlines is small, if most airlines are canceling about 4% or 5% of their flights but if that cancels, it is a disaster. >> jetblue said they were seeing and increase number of sick calls from omicron. a spokesperson said despite our best efforts, we have had to cancel a number of flights. what can airlines do going
forward to prevent cancellations? can they prevent cancellations? >> they cannot present prevent cancellations because this virus is random. the majority of airline employees are vaccinated. the good news here is that the cdc's decision to truncate the isolation time to 5 days means that the first wave of employees who got sick hopefully will be back on duty by the middle of the week and that may help the new year's weekend go better. >> we heard dr. about to say that a vaccine requirement should be seriously considered for domestic travel. what are your thoughts about a vaccine mandate for travelers? >> he. to have walked back his comments later. but what he also said is that it would be a good thing to have these vaccination requirements because it is not
very practical to do so because we don't have a digital vaccination certificate. to do this would make flying more complex and it could lop off 14% or more of the people who fly now from traveling in the airlines would lose more money. >> thank you so much for joining us tonight. what happens when trump is no longer trump enough for today's republicans because it might be happening now. that's next. that's next. only in theaters december 17th.
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downplayed and denied about how the coronavirus pandemic would hurt his reelection chances. trump and his promoters are why we have an interesting vaccinated minority in this country. it is necessary context for what donald trump recently said to one of those promoters, can do so in. >> the vaccine worked. the ones that get very sick and go to the hospital otherwise it don't take their vaccine. the results are very good. if you get it, it is a very minor form peers that is correct, and of course trump should have said this on wave randomly from the moment the vaccine was approved a year ago. of course this is b will drain and enraging many republican
promoters. owens herself tried to explain away the comment by reminding fans that trump result. people oftentimes forget that will hold trump is, i'm quoting candace owens. he and other old people came from a time before tv, the internet, before being able to conduct their independent research. candace owen went on to say that she is currently drinking silver to prevent sickness. silver. yes, you heard that right, silver. but alex jones went much further. he said, this is an emergency christmas day warning, you are either completely ignored about the so-called vaccine or you are one of the most evil man who has ever lived. can we just pause for a minute and let that sink in? if you're
christmas bed involves warm songs and holiday spirit, greed grateful. you didn't have the time or heart to consume this type of garbage but what else can you expect from a conspiracy theorist now on the hook for the families of children murdered at sandy hook for claiming that their murders were staged. it answers the interesting question, what happens when donald trump is no longer trump be enough for the trump republican party? join us now, kurt bartolo and margie in a host. great to see you both. it has been a long time since i've seeing you. kurt, did trump create a monster and now he has lost control of
it? >> it is's classic story, be careful what you wish for. you want a bunch of conspiracy theorist to vote for you, you want to turn the party of side down, inside out? guess what, they will come for you too and now he is learning that. this party now is becoming about the marjorie taylor greene , matt gaetz, they are for the right and ashamed then where trump is and he will be cannibalized by them just as he cannibalized what used to be the republican party. the cycle repeats up until either they run themselves into the ground or someone in the party stands up and says enough is enough, let's take back the republican party towards a more mainstream approach. >> even if he ceases to be the
organizing principle, how does any national republican stand with trump? what do they stand for? that we have seeing people like liz cheney trying to do that with when they do that, they don't end up running again, they take their time and go home. what we will see in the coming years are all of these many trumps running for congress and the type of primary, the candidates were going to see. there's all this doom and gloom , let me tell you something. republicans are fully capable of nominating such right wing lunatic extremist that they alienate themselves so much from the mainstream that they won't have a chance in november. always people make their pilgrimages to try to get trumps
blessing. >> speaking of right-wing extremists being nominated to run for federal office, today's washington post has an article, house mugger squad trends to challenges to traditional republicans. one is running against a house republican in washington state. he has little interest in fighting with democrats and he wants to support republicans with a tough vote. starting with articles of impeachment and a full congressional inquiry into the 2020 presidential election. he says this was stolen from top . it is put up for shut up.
what you think when you heard this as a strategist? >> the maga brandon london in 2016 but if they don't bring the republican party over the finish line and in 2020 and we thought even the cynosure that in 2021 that they will be on the far right. a lot of republicans were looking at that playbook. if we are little bit more moderate, if we can hold it together then we could potentially take back seats in the house and senate. that is not is happening here. republican party that is trying to go further and for there to the right, to embrace trump and they are not all embracing
vaccines even though i would love for them to come out, just like trump did, and say they are safe. they are not doing that. honestly that is terrible. if you're going to have a republican party who is going further and further to the right , that is only good news for democrats. what will happen is that democrats will talk about how they are delivering, how this is a far right party and americans don't want that message. it is good news for democrats in the sense that republicans are going further to the right is terrible news more broadly for america. >> i hear you. you are a brilliant democratic strategist so i hope you're right. are there house republicans in trump districts that could be picked off in a primary? >> the fact that you have the
litmus test of republicans, the primaries is do you buy into the big lie and will you spend more time fighting or fellow republicans than even democrats were joe biden? that quote from the story is remarkable. somebody wants to set some people like mitch mcconnell straight. l straight. >> with they have the nerve if they took back the majority to actually impeach president biden. >> i hope not, but what i will tell you, they will lose elections after that, i can see
a situation where republicans can control but don't keep it on the impeachment strategy. >> think you both for joining us on the last word, that is tonight's last word, the 11th hour starts right now. good evening once again, day 3 42 of the biden administration, tonight, as the "variant drives a winter covid surgeon every quarter of this nation and frustration levels growing, right along with the number of cases, the cdc is out with brand-new guidance for anyone infected by the virus, no shortening the recommended time for isolation, from 10 days with people with covid-19, to five days if asymptomatic, followed by five days where you bask if you're around other people. the latest data shows the new cases are averaging