tv [untitled] April 25, 2011 6:00pm-6:30pm EDT
welcome to the lower show we'll get the real headlines with none of the mersey we're going live to washington d.c. now wiki leaks released a trove of information yet again and this time it details the cases of over seven hundred detainees past and present from guantanamo bay so explain the details in this leak out a how to debate to see if anyone out there still thinks this race was worth it then in afghanistan a massive jailbreak allows almost five hundred prisoners to escape many of whom are taliban commanders so many here at home are trying to determine how this happened
again we'll speak with a security contractor tim lynch about what's being said on the ground there and koran burning pastor terry jones took his calls to dearborn michigan this past week and christine was there as will bring us the latest on what actually did and what did not happen according to the i.m.f. the age of america is coming to an end and china's economy is going to surpass big us in just five years so we'll tell you why economists but i must see that happening but more importantly is the u.s. ready for this major shift and while you're feeling the pain at the pump obama is working to find out why the prices are skyrocketing so discuss his investigation into oil speculation al determine if this inquiry really solve anything we'll have details on all that and much more tonight but first let's move on to our top story . we can weeks has done it's again this time the trove of documents released to international news out. it's our classified files on more than seven hundred past
and present guantanamo bay detainees are in between two thousand and two and two thousand and nine the documents contain prisoner assessments in terms of their risk also recommendations about whether they should continue to be held or be released and although we already knew the bush administration knowingly held innocent people at the military facility these new details only add on to the lack of credibility the lack of humanity and the embarrassment of business calls for the u.s. dozens of completely innocent people were sent to get him out or their ports and commanders that said no reason recorded it for transfer hundreds were low level foot soldiers only about two hundred twenty or assessed to be dangerous international terrorists but even the credibility of those statements are hard to tell as evidence was gathered through torture and detainees who were considered to have psychotic illnesses by monitoring exercise habits as well of what kind of watches they were wearing it's not going scientists crates but will american be
able to move past it joining me to discuss it is jim hansen retired special operations master sergeant and military blogger for black i've got nat and kevin zeese founder of voters for peace and executive director of come home america gentlemen i want to thank you both for joining me tonight now jim i'm going to start with you because i think there are some really embarrassing revelations there are some things that make our intelligence just look amateur just full of shoddy look completely inhumane but do you still think that it was worth it even with these details that have come out oh absolutely i think if anything the recent treasure trove of revelations from wiki leaks proves that the people we had in good mo were considered a danger the vast majority of them were high risk and if you look at the people we've released look at the large numbers hundreds and hundreds that we released the recidivism rate is all the rage it's thirty percent plus or the back on the battlefield or leaving and leaving al qaeda in the arabian peninsula and fighting us in afghanistan and iraq so i mean. the ones we let go are bad guys the ones we
still have a ridiculously bad guys and can stay in jail until we either convict them of a crime which i hope we do or through the end of the battle they can declare jihad off whenever they want well let me go then kevin i want you to chime in here i want your opinion do you think that these documents have made it very clear that we have a lot of bad guys or is it made it clear that we have fourteen year old eighty nine year olds people that we were detaining just because they wore a specific type of watch that apparently was handed out at some bomb making sessions somewhere in afghanistan or that if they claimed that they were a farmer of a cork our intelligence agencies thought that that was a typical al qaeda cover story. so i think you read the reports of the documents i'm not sure just as it really seems to me like you nine year old guy was a mensch you're being held in guantanamo is not good for national security a forty two year old same thing holding him for really no cause you know people from al jazeera al-jazeera help because they want to know algiers zero work you are
someone who was arrested by the tower to tell the imprisoned help in those days because they want to find out about i will tell them prisons were they tortured people there they brutalize them treated like a subhuman and you're just going you know recidivism rate which by the was an exaggerated number but no but the point is you take people into a torture chamber torture them for years and lease and you think you make a friend of them you're going to make enemies want to undermine u.s. national security and undermine the u.s. reputation around the world and it's created a quagmire for us we've tortured people there and now we can't close the place we can't bring people to trial we create a situation that's ongoing and ongoing undermining our nation and undermining our national security it's a mess it was a mess from day one when when cheney you all were saying is the worst the worst they knew on day one they had about a third of people there weren't even criminals i think kevin has a good point and you have to ask is what do you think of the fact that if you torture somebody if you keep them locked up in a cell. for i don't know let's say five years just because they have the same last
name as somebody you thought was a taliban commander turned out it was the wrong guy you don't think i would turn them against you you know there are even details here in these documents from discussions of they had with kill each sheikh mohammed that basically said the same thing that i don't like america's policies so i'm thinking of what i can do to make or change those policies and a lot of people would say that the way that we treat people at guantanamo bay has very much just helped fuel more more insurgents more to harness all around the world have a beef with us these people that have beef with us since back before desert storm you know the beef is ongoing and will never end until jihad is triumphant these people will have a beef with us the idea that we are somehow creating more jihadists by guantanamo than we're taking out of play by interrogating guys chris is famous fourteen year old omar kotter the canadian he killed an american special forces soldier he admitted he did it there's tons of proof he did he's not an innocent kid he was a killer he was fourteen his whole family is
a collection of terrorists those are the people we have a guantanamo talk about chaos and the perfect example of someone who should be at guantanamo and first of all no one's ever been tortured i count on will be all right no one has been waterboarding is not really crazy at all how do you possibly know what it is they're going to wait until it's time to let you know some truth though you know good wording was don't look at exactly what it will be can sound waterboarding that elsewhere all right i mean nobody else was ever waterboarding we were going to go and the cia's prisons that were closed previous to that the detention prisons and interrogation cells there was total chaos ensued and he was interrogated he gave up intelligence that helped to stop terrorist plots i had done that when we captured him we asked him take a listen are there any terrorist plots coming up we should know about he's like yeah bunch of we can tell us which ones they are he's like nope at that point are you going to court and we're told that there is a nuclear weapon somewhere in europe at this i could read in fact many of his very lot in it that nuclear weapon is going to go off i'm sorry really why would they sit around waiting so no salesman just. if i were to. let go i play capitaine for
a second and you know i got to tell you i mean your guest there is such a military apologist i bet i google him you know before the show i couldn't find him criticizing military in any way shape or form despite a massive work rhymes our country's coming despite the four thousand pictures of our soldiers with afghanis civilians who are dead when despite the abu ghraib prison scandal this guy just like apologized and larry yet they had to eat with us you know what have you with us we have military bases throughout the world we have a thousand more than a thousand military bases there are the world many in the middle east and there were people elsewhere and it will be with us for supporting israel as they occupy about back palestine illegally they have a beef with us because recent as much as the whole world combined on the military it's not a jihad that's the problem it's american empire that's the problem it's time for us to stop behaving like of a bully and start become part of the elite the country of nations and if there and there is definitely torture at guantanamo i suggest you start reading these files and find out the truth there was in fact expose a couple years ago
a separate sex section and want to know that was controlled by the cia used for torture and the fact these documents show repeated visions in quick in guantanamo are leadership there were two groups there they were the military who ran the place and there was a cia and they beef they were tortured but the f.b.i. and the professional military law enforcement were there opposed to torture and if we get more accurate information more useful information by not torturing people the whole situation was torture putting people in cages and one in guantanamo bay that itself is torture just like bradley manning be kept in solitary for a year that is also torture and i'm sure your guest would approve that as well longer drive as not absolutely i think the whole point is he's dumbed down the definition of torture and any type of course of interrogation by torture clauses lasting harm all right waterboarding doesn't cause lasting harm. i've been a lot of orders i know probably there are tens of thousands of us military personnel who've been waterboarding and does not cause. lasting harm was it does is
jet i mind trick your mind into thinking you're drowning and you will tell people stuff if you know stuff people say torture doesn't work you know you can't tell works if somebody knows something they can tell you that you want to know doesn't torture also work to get somebody to say anything so they can stop their torture you said this is our you know so i don't like you and then they don't let me just make stuff up and that's what i mean and this isn't being made up because this is actually in these documents that come from u.s. officials where essentially they're saying that they're using these people that you know it became this cell within guantanamo bay itself where people have started ratting on each other in order to try to join together do you think intelligence gathering is it is that very that's i am glad i want to live on i want to move on it really quickly in terms of what it means now for the future right because we're looking back at the past there is still over one hundred people left on time of day fifty of which the obama administration has essentially deemed and trials some of them are now going out for military commissions what do you think these documents
mean for the future of that i mean can you really put proof behind anything if it's clear that there was not a lot of evidence was not a lot of clear reasoning for many of these detainees to be there in the first place and the reason they're not being tried a lot is because they were tortured and because they were tortured we can't bring them to trial and so it was kind of catch twenty two now we're stuck with these people in prison for the rest of their lives the not detainees or prisoners in prison who risk their lives because this war on terrorism long wars will last for a lot of these people lou and so it's created equal united states is going to you know undermine our security and you know undermine or beautician and you make it impossible for us and demand our our people be treated humanely around the world now is a foreign country captures an american interest in like we should do a long time but what do we say when we say we're going to try don't we don't really drop all i'm holding my beautiful do you mean what we say cooking a lot food in a limited way. i don't know how to wrap it up clear this is i mean this is still to
be a wager that there is no debate to me that this is a wrong and that this is a horrible you know black mark on america's record when it comes to the way we conduct our foreign policy the way that we fight our wars i think it should make a lot of americans question you know what the rule of law and what justice really means in this country to this day but jan i guess there are people like you that still think that it's worth it i think you're crazy for joining me tonight. now don't go anywhere we still have a lot more to talk about on tonight's show a massive jailbreak in afghanistan allowed nearly five hundred for as a nurse mostly taliban to escape the ring the details on how the milton strolled off and we'll speak with a contractor tim lynch got how this major moment is being discussed on the ground when kron burning pastor terry jones took his mission in dearborn michigan over the weekend archies christine was there and will bring us all the details on what did and what just happened.
and we are right. and. we will be. safe. because the freedom. hi guys welcome michelle intel on the ellen show part of our guests have to say on the topic now i want to hear our audience dislodging you seem to video response on to twitter respond to the question simply post on you tube every monday and on thursday the show long response is. fun fun fun fun.
a jail break nearly five hundred prisoners escaped from the us are pros of prison and khandahar in the middle of the night on sunday most of them taliban fighters and one hundred of them believed to be taliban commanders and the taliban has claimed responsibility for the operation they've also said they were digging up for five months to create a tunnel out of the facility so not only to various events since the exact same president had broken into in two thousand and eight when nearly one thousand prisoners escaped after which security had reportedly been beefed up but it's also something of the afghan government today claimed was a security disaster but that's progress i have the summer fighting months and the prospects for afghan takeover of security into jeopardy so what are people on the ground saying about it or earlier i caught up with him lynch blogger and founder of free range international i'm considering it this is been big news here in the u.s. today i first asked him how quickly the word spread in lockhart got where he's located in southern afghanistan. who are it was it happened late late last night so
we're divided by this morning it was all that anybody locally was talking about that's for sure now so far only about thirteen of the nearly five hundred people that escaped have been recaptured if you listen to the afghan government they're already saying if this is a security disaster here not far from from kandahar yourself there do you feel like you're sorry carry has been compromised now you know is there some fear in the area . no not really nobody's that it's there's really people or abuse of the prison break happened again i mean this is a this is the second time since two thousand and eight i know in the last time i was in kandahar and aren't just i was raped under roof and suppose a prison and it was it was even there live again just a few of the guys the mission the. our neighborhood but but nobody was going to say this is a security threat most of the big only has been let down to get a job now for three months and months and months very mature. and i said a precious to do. all this that really i'd say see she said. go ahead.
you know this is a good indication of just how badly incompetent things could be when we knew when he was one of the good the competent something i mean it's just ridiculous we've spent i'm not sure how many tens of millions of dollars that we've had a justice program with jill housman there's just one since two thousand and four we've had this we've seen i don't know how many hundreds of lawyers and prison guards they don't have to be called correctional specialists and police officers and and all these people are supposed to work with the ed kids. if you can't deliver a big if i mean because they really do is get out of classes and so used to going into new facilities with no point in. going to see the anything that's being told or we're going to it's goofy after so much money there's probably consistent across
the country well you're right in the first time this happened back in two thousand and eight it was around one thousand prisoners actually got to escape after which they supposedly you know really beefed up the security they they really did this this prison there they refurbished it now the taliban of course they can always believe everything they say are often we hear a lot of exaggerations in their press releases but they are claiming to know that the way that the keys to some of these prison cells were obtained was through friends making a lot of people think that perhaps some of these prison guards were in fact working for the taliban so i mean once again does this really just pinpoint the problems that we're facing when it comes to wanting to transition and hand over the security to afghan command. it wouldn't. win without question it points to some serious problems because it is not as if there's not thousands of live kids in the security forces who are actually trying to do good but there are yet in the face of this in
the face of this that he can have problems which are which are full of mentally about corruption it was he's a get this guys are to jail was money that got him out of jail. your decision to get that many guys who were three for all that's that's pretty impressive but it always comes down to it's so bad so going to a big link in a chain is it's corruption and it says and government could mean it never it never stops and i'm just curious today president obama is meeting with this security team basically trying to discuss afghanistan and pakistan and what do you think you think if this is going to affect this timeline for withdrawal of or supposed to start with rob began in the beginning of july general david petraeus has already told us that progress in afghanistan has been fragile and reversible and i feel like they would probably point to this line as a reversal. but then after you if you see it's one of the original color but i
don't think it's going to impact on the pace of withdrawal which was not going to be that or going to begin with but i've said before new show is going to be a big majority. and i bet you're you will not be able to i don't know who's going to be on hold but it will be. there's just i just know that because i can see the rotation. and there's no let up there with a call. to keep going for those two years. i think it's going to affect the withdrawal but i don't think it was them which withdraw all of the credit wars yeah definitely express those used to us here before and you know considering that the president himself says that he hasn't gotten any kind of plan yet from portray as i don't think anyone's expecting this to be a big with raul and now that you have hundreds more taliban. commanders even being left back out there i can imagine the fighting is only going to pick up i have one more question for in ten minutes a little off topic because it's about business today there was
a commission on wartime contracting had a hearing on capitol hill and they were going back to reporters they released in february what they were essentially saying that congress needs to punish contractors more when it comes to fraud and abuse and really some bad behavior what do you think about that. yes i absolutely agree. a contract the mechanism makes extract anything but financial penalties for poor performance very difficult and i say that one narrow thing built into most contracts. just doesn't seem to matter how a company performs on one because a bidding process for another is divorced from their overall performance it's a matter of submitting this god awful book a response to an r.f.p. so there's no question is going to be said you just don't question that there's a lot of things that have gone on that. required she looked hard at me and quick of
action there's no question about that well we'll see if they actually take some of that advice and start caring attempting to so much for joining us tonight. there's no noise abbi always a pleasure to be here thanks for having me. now as a report of last week pastor terry jones took his message of islamophobia gear born michigan how one of the largest muslim american populations in the u.s. and as some of the town prepare for his arrival anywhere i'm sure expect our case christine for is our was in dearborn for the event and she brings us all the details from the weekend. on the. it is a tale of two worlds or at least two hemispheres and you could say this is where they meet sixty years in the shade of the ford headquarters lies dearborn michigan it may be in the midwest. and it looks and sounds be
much more like the middle east. because we're going to go with the largest muslim population not to mention the largest mosque in north america. on this day the mosque the islamic center of america is packed. it is awesome on people. it's respect. nearly a thousand people from every religion have gathered joining together for a common cause to stand against this man florida pastor terry jones i believe the koran strictly followed can and does lead to terrorist activities many many people believe that around america but that's not why we're here why jones is here he says is to protest against radical islam and his actions which had in the past included holding the qur'an on trial and having a supporter burnet have attracted plenty of attention where you hear it's never
just and seems to be the proper area just because it's a very lord lord is that america has a very large. population on the day of the planned protests good friday in the christian tradition a game of waiting i just hope he sees unity and he decides to get back in his car his pickup truck on his horse or whatever and just get balaji here this week i question the constitution his record is really really vague i mean i understand he has a funeral speech but we had the freedom of religion has now been just about an hour since the planned protest was supposed to begin and still no sign of terry jones however there are more than one hundred residents of dearborn fanning in the rain waiting hoping that if he doesn't arrive making friends in the message he's trying to spread ignorance that's what he's trying to do he's a product of obviously living under a system that has provided him with no information about islam made him ignorant and therefore he's taking a stance that he's really not too clear on and in the midst of the crowds alone
supporter are you on the same side as terry jones you believe that what he's doing is right yes he needs to learn everybody by radicalism he's not saying that all muslims are radical muslims he's made it clear i don't know what they're not getting this viewpoint ignites passion and tension the number one terrorist group is going on it's fight our democracy. we're trying to stand in these countries but this is a warning. that's all we know but terry jones never shows up and it was disappointing because everybody was all here really and everybody else but they gather. you know and. you don't call because we're told what could happen for this small city a microcosm of america. and people may only have to wait until the end of the week when terry jones plans to return to protest this time at city hall we're not afraid that. if we can work together as a team as if it is one family a family whose greatest challenge may still be yet to come in dearborn michigan
christine for is now our t. . joining me with more details is christine christine first saw i guess tell our audience what happened why did pastor terry jones get to hold this protest well there's a few different reasons but the number one reason is that he was in court when his protest was supposed to happen pastor jones was in court on thursday because he needed to get a permit and he was denied one they say where he wanted to have the protest in front of the mosque it was just not a convenient location it's surrounded by churches this was planned for good friday there's only one road for all these reasons they said it would be disturbance so they said you know you can still hold it this is a free country you can only do it if you're at city hall or the library at a community center or in front of court and he said no i want to do it where i want to do it so court last from three thirty on thursday till six thirty pm on friday this protest was supposed to be at five pm so he ended up missing it due to being in court records a term and that he would likely incite violence and that's why they didn't give him
the permit they said will make you pay a dollar for a piece bond when pay it went to jail it's interesting because you know we were having this discussion last week when he was supposed to hold a protest over free speech free speech is something that we consider to uphold in this country that's why pastor terry jones is allowed to say we want to save but you have designated free speech zones you can only you know perhaps protest during certain times and what i thought was really interesting as well was one of the guests in your story here said that sure he may have the freedom of speech but we have the freedom of religion too and it's interesting to see that those don't always coincide you have a lot of times where the lines get glory these people i even spoke to dearborn attorneys who belong to this mosque and attorneys usually have kind of strong arguments with whatever side they're arguing but one guy said to me he can say what he wants as well as long as he doesn't hurt our feelings and that's when you get to some interesting point something between this or the westboro baptist church which as we know the supreme court ruled in favor of you're going to have your feelings
hurt a lot of time in this country people are going to say stuff that. may seem crazy that may seem hurtful but it's still the freedom of speech and that's where this line gets really fine the a.c.l.u. has already promised to get involved in this case cossar jones as you will come back on friday he says this time he will protest in front of city hall but when it comes to free speech zones you've got to ask the question how free is free as definitely an interesting contradiction here too and i want to hear hopefully we can talk to you more later in the week as i want to hear more about this town like you said one of the largest muslim populations in the u.s. is the largest are the largest population in the u.s. and i'm sure that there that's when really you see some differences and some of those blurring of the lines to you in terms of you know what hurts people's feelings and what they do understand christine thanks so much for joining us absolutely. coming up tonight on fox news host is complaining about a war on easter that doesn't really exist so we're going to bring you all the details in tonight's told time segment and then i left has made
a new statement the bombshell was dropped that china's economy kurtzer past us by twenty sixteen so if it's true will you be ready i'll discuss with market watch call mr aarons after the break. let's not forget that we are in the park or the world. i think. either one well. we have to go but they're going to say so get ready because their freedom.