tv [untitled] April 24, 2012 7:30pm-8:00pm EDT
thank you very much for coming out of show that was music journalist alan cross that's going to do for now will be right back here in a half hour. time jewel in a song. it's true of wiki leaks expose the world secrets these documents belong the united states government been attacked by the powerful united states strongly condemned by you broke the law illegally shoot someone for five hundred days now being detained without charge but that hasn't stopped it. today on the quest for revolutionary ideas that can change the world tomorrow. today i am joined by intellectual superstar. philosopher. a former anti communist dissident now turned so described communist together we call
david horowitz a former radical and black panther life now a fiery right wing zionist i want to know what they think about the future of europe and the united states because becomes he did you have to be physically restrained if we shout rant and talk calmly about nothing and palestinians black panthers and israelis about a farmer romney and stalin. david you describe yourself as a conservative and you describe yourself as a communist but nonetheless i was of you have had a picture of stalin. to make free money don't mess. about it now. you write it can't talk to an international shop.
i like it david and you tell me what do you mean by conservative and why. well look at the picture of stalin it was on my office wall was his death and i'm a conservative because he leftists utopians had no idea what human nature has. and therefore when they get power they're faced with it big problem which is that people don't go along with their program and so they kill them up and put them in gulags and. the problem utopian idea is the idea. of it for white stallion but if the to remind me and give maybe something marginal liberal even agree based i think we're reminded me of there are effects they dread of of but i'd be completely
gutted and you know i don't know what to make of what sluggo is saying when he says that's now it is there to remind him of the dangers of totalitarian it i'm the totalitarian strain in the left or the dangerous of. that utopian ideas can lead to because he supports all a totalitarian movements in the world that i can see. you're supporter of. the closest thing we have to nab citizen which was you know utopian idea in the middle east you know you support the palestinians i don't see anything to distinguish the palestinians who want to kill the jews from that nancy thousand did you ever visit the west bank. it's the same sort of through history if you didn't know what i'm saying is that i knew that he made you a friend he said and i can tell you what i. am not saying i must
emphasize because i find it casted a space oh what nazis for going to from now doing police unions this is state stress but saudi police are out of their screwed up yes there are groups like hamas no you know well you know here i see some guy saudi arabia i guess that's the way we go wait is that i would not be as you are such and so on is that i need only see open this page for hamas to influence their second awful going to blame the jews for not so great oh my god you see this is what i got like oh i oh my god i've never had a i've played the truth and if you like i you know i want to know how serious you just might be look at the situation of we mean now yok corny believes you stronger smarter than i'm going to lose responsible for this united states debt and any
party think international left in the democratic party united states that went to war for saddam and against george bush when he went into iraq we should have settled their hands we should not have you know we should have occupied them for something to save this is a mapping program to which i should've stuck it to syria and that we should have stuck into iran but bush came under such a talent. from the from the democrat there's never been such as seditious movement by a major american party they all supported the war i do all of them but their leadership supported the war they voted in their majority in the senate and the war and then they turned against it and they lied saying that bush lied bush couldn't have lied . about the intelligence because kerry and that rockefeller and feinstein all the democrats stand on the intelligence committees they had their intelligence then
julian in in the work that we do the work that wiki leaks does we are. pushing forward the boundaries of a certain type of liberty it is we say protected by the first amendment that is the liberty to to reveal the truth about the world or take a story to record for me to fear and so on but i saw this incredible poster that the u.s. army produced which is a poster of jefferson. say it was a big statue of jefferson saying the cost of living t. is a turn obedience that is the price of liberty and it had to try an interception systems people with guns and cars god and people looking out over the sea with with spike losses they had interpreted jefferson's statement which was that to stop a strong state we must be eternally vigilant into we must have
a strong state an aggressive state a surveillance state in order we i think yeah i think it's regrettable that the state is so big that then our defense has to be so big i channel lee regrettable but it's a reality and you know what i'd like to go back to the thing about liberty and equality. of course if people are unequipped if people had an equal counts an equal intelligence. then the only way to make them equal is to take away liberty it's the only way you can do it there's no other way so of course there's an inherent conflict between the liberty not then idea you get in congress what you think i am not for. everything should be made public but i think. i'm not doing all i'm saying when the way. the
great power structure a certain level of sheep pocket is he says and he just then selectively wins simply house to put it that of course we have our own base called to cost the state power in the sense of sorry we have to do sort of things discretely better know about pete and i have be we have to play this game i'm not that stupid but when obviously this fast paced misuse thinks like we can least can play a very positive note i don't see any then that also i lost my way if i disagree if the revolution got to be ready if we had a new revolutionary government yeah and you revolutionary government and with you it's managed to get hold of yes or no this no you got that government yeah and we were going to publish it i mean i'm sorry we waste wasn't what i would i would i do what we do well me i can look at it he spends ok you know what it's too difficult for me to answer of discretion now when i will be part of the solution of the
government i will send you my answer to your luck selling say. yeah i've also heard . years it's kind of ordered liberty and can't me but everybody just thought of that in some sense a video on the front front of guantanamo bay the slogan is on a pound to defend freedom you know in iraq there is a prison camp camp between. these to me seem to be abuses of the word freedom and i want to know from you do you really think this is a tremendous state that is growing up in the united states is that entirely necessary to combat the rival risk competition the united states has from trying to from europe or or is this now a self-feeding system it's you know there's the people are the problem people are
the problem big greedy they lie to deceive people they manipulate. you know they're egocentric we understand that and people in government i just the same dangerous people with more power so that's why we have the checks and balances and i'm i'm all for you know worst group me and this and that however. we live in a context the united states and israel under attack from the international left which is very powerful for marlys dictators in south america that somebody seems to get along with. from the islamofascism. and we live in an age when they have nuclear weapons and chemical and biological i think there's going to be and i could cast a few that won't work for everything that happened in the twentieth century in the twenty first because of this don't you thank you see the the creation of an
enormous secretive bureaucracy through each other favors in old been rotating door contracts etc don't you see that that perhaps can be similar to what occurred in the soviet union and we need a strong thirty million me if we eliminate competition but the fact is that look you got a leftist in the right house and i was brought up and trained by communists whose whole political career was in becoming this left you have competition you know if you think you can have what you think of this monolith and you know the secret it controls everything you have if you prefer to think of it as many mafias and they're all at each other's throats and that's what keeps us somewhat safe. ok j.b. for you you know first let me say something we don't any america needs trouble and it's countries like russia like russia. shut down the opposition i know and us
against their own you know what you mean and i'm using this big guy whom when he made was bush said you're the man but i looked into putin's ice and i knew i can trust god but he's just that with no what i'm saying is that look look stupid things that bush sent so yeah i'm ok i thought it was ok yeah ok let me go on so listen i mean unfortunately you know uses a person who you least commune east you know that the communists like to. the true opposition to game democracy you must know these companies like to call everyone who oppose this then fascist if you did a modest democratic oh fuck she's comfortable with i'm afraid that you use the word communist in a slightly similar way who ever is a little bit of critical or american consumer i think establishment he's the common
extent of color you have on the colonies they are only not retiring you're not referring to barack obama yes in both meanings was standing on the government and used up the lines here and you have no idea of barack obama's background who he actually is if you say that this is not just about my own well i don't care i'm not saying you guys challenge background was really just boy who points i thought some of them as being don't know let me go briefly on but don't you think that nonetheless i think and desist and you will join you in a subtle if not this is a good thing but don't you think that nonetheless for me the great satan get a boost president see was that we feast known i wouldn't use the word of i guess sometimes you need not intelligent politics did he he that he's out of peace the cape was that the united states effectively. come.
close to losing the position of. power and the boost you united states lost effectively control over latin america and so on and so on and i think and this is not i don't say to some lefties gee who finally be got the united states but i think we are entering. a very dangerous. weather all of these things that america has somehow regained control over for me over and again i'm not saying this to be any you know what i mean of these things yankees are dangerous what do i get it and why this will unite you look i'm not as bad listen let's face it and for this many leftists will accuse me of your centrism or whatever european welfare state marc then. if you permit me the east european lab mark then i think even united states getting wasn't this may be
that unique here you're in few months the story after well going well with the welfare state where so many people in fact safety. three daum and so on don't make too much fun of people again i think it's not as he left for it was a disastrous period europe europe is a cultural theme park and in significant that's what happened that's what your welfare state it just took you are out of the pot i have had personally i have personal experience with a socialist green paradise of sweden and i can tell you it is nothing like you have a party but important thing to have the official speaking system which some think has broken down the suite the swedes have no morals the david striving towards your target the striving towards a better position even if even if their position is liberty it is more liberty that
is a striving a direction that people wish to have if they can measure and temper events by the direction of their hopes and ideals have we now abandoned that true religion because religion is there waiting in the gap they just see to seize utopian vision that people can't live with a sense most people can't live with a sense that their lives are meaningless that they just you know born and die and are forgotten. so if you're willing dispersant then there's a debility who's going to make sorted out in the afterlife you know redemption in the next life if you're not religious you want i would imagine in this life that's what the left is about it is a religious movement and it's not an accident that all things is these utopianism whether it's communism or fascism or announces all of the better. or what or liberalism. it was so you would talk yeah people have to want to make things
better because you know it may take a lot of being patient to make a modest change so you know i'm trying to think of one network with what you want to do when you want to do what you do is it is a radical means they can have very destructive consequences that out of both menace when you have to give you when you can't keep going because always but when you for example keep them in court of course you don't say oh let's try to be friendly but it's not so you've got a bad grief modestly you have good momentum or not that's to be aggressive i hope we're here i hope we agree are pissed and all of that you thought b.s. about for me my position is so modest but i see it should be all of that reactor approaching potential customer fees and all i'm saying we should fully consciously confront this cast for a feast no easy utopian think companies only need that out of work so i let me try
to tie up these the status you were asleep at your second dolly where the end maybe this year may come your nice he's a communist you know what i was going to say is the natural war is the natural condition of mankind has always been worse right from from the beginning ok and many of the peace occurs only when there's a concert of powers or a single power that can intimidate would be aggressors now i ask you who would you like that power to be other than the united states. i don't know but you know i think it's no longer even the candidate for me if united states get well that's right that's why we're facing such catastrophe but you're contributing it by encouraging leftists isn't the way to keep the state accountable is to have a free market in states different political options different political games and then people who don't like the conditions in one state can move to another state
they can move to a business that they can leave their assets they can do that unless the united states is not equipped as as we showed in iraq we can't we can't even occupy a country we didn't we can barely conduct a four day war that was a six week one and week with america. it's a country where people are so this so much opportunity people are so busy having fun. they don't want to go to work americans don't want to go to work and i get america has to be lied into war no actually it was tony blair that the united states is crippled. in part because its commander in chief is a leftist here i expect for he said he doesn't see it yes he can that it's tasty three percent of attacks and so on to go out of i'm sorry to inform you he's because of people like obama who can succeed there for days into obama's
administration he or theorize he's very striking pakistan who do you think about really is what he came into office and actually when he was running he knew that his weak point was that was the military so he picked pakistan it. has killed more civilians and the left much and get away with it because they're left because the left is a religious force it has nothing to do with principle the left doesn't care about. asians being you know killed by drones you know those but what does he want what does he want to do to the streets protesting what obama schooling in pakistan and afghanistan you know. you know i don't have any respect for leftists anymore because i don't think they're pretty. busy getting out of the finish we have both critical to watch the obama a critical part i mean it's a social you want to take because they want to vomit because you think he's
a communist leftist i am critical of obama because why on the contrary i think that he's not keep it close at lefties he's not he pretends to be a leftist he's not that's the point i know what you're talking about. i'm going to not listen no attack alex i mean even when obama is doing but that's just because they're a leftist he's out of your old left lefties friends because i thought he colleagues not my friend i don't buy this democratic left you know the good guys through democracy blah blah blah blah i'm saying is that the problem he gave and i still come he's them he stayed here with us. i'm afraid what happens although i don't find the so no it isn't a problem yet the problems are going to be here for ever you know the problems and problems that we actually get i just think you ok let's let's let's all listen to one to one that we say things we have a lot of ground on we we have
a lot of ground point we have a lot of ground zero we have to find that peaks and lead but i think this amazing. gosh that's ok. we have a lot of ground to cover and i do want to go over it ok so. david you were in the black panther and you stayed in the black panthers post well you know i was never a member i raised money for you help them you were you were involved in activities and you supported them yes. you made those banks who can't keep that money for you . and your board in a bookkeeper from then ramparts magazine with. which you are editing. but even paper and i just want to draw your attention to a letter that was sent to you. in my mind you were the person responsible
for baby step sending her into order the panthers books at this particular time was tantamount to addressing her you know klu klux klan white and sending her on to talk you know this isn't this isn't. just standard it's letter by computer guy. you know who actually was a ball with the papers before i was it never said. the left will defend the cause and will sacrifice any and it will in this case it was me. to david do you think this this tragedy i mean you're an old you know you know murder i mean a murder was around you this is. something of great personally importance to him and it must have affected your your outlook on the world but i do think that you it is open your eyes to the reality or rather it colored your perception i was very aware of that so then he was killed in our body was discovered in february one
thousand seven hundred five. i mean i didn't do anything politically after that for the next. nine years i voted for reagan in one thousand nine hundred four and that's when a bird as a conservative of course i came under tremendous attack from the left but i hadn't said anything. i was going to say and said anything negative hadn't done any political activity attacking the left in almost nine years because i was very aware that i i was. you know i felt i had been betrayed by the movement i felt guilty. when i supported. so i waited till i was relatively cool and you know it's in your character to. if
you're in it or not but thank you david is that you started writing park officials after them on pace for. rockefeller's not a big american family right i mean when you started writing all those biographies they do you interview members of both welcoming them yes you moved into a new sort of orbit as a result of your bargain or. no no. i really have remained pretty much the same on my life i didn't want any more robots i mean i did i did i had i lost every friend i ever had was as a leftist and that was a mid-life. so maybe we constituted might make friendships i think that's a big factor that keeps people in the lessons that they know that if they cross the line they're going to lose it all their friends.
i mean right yeah it's just. ok ok all right sorry about that no problem i am for commies and weak human face but you will be allowed to do you. got you know is it isn't it that's going to look down and activism or what you do you know or i have to go to universities with bodyguards because of the fascist left in this country i have assassination friends or whatever but i'm the only guy in the studio that was physically assault that by i think would be a communist and i can't you need some kind of an astronaut it's so american much better and not kidding like you who will you be voting for in the upcoming election . well we don't have a candidate yet well i mean amongst the pack amongst the candidates oh i think romney has the best chance to beat this guy to beat the big obama yeah i'm not i'm not happy with anybody. here to be you know it's very tragic and really maybe even
back in the long run i'm for to be right that if you have got to stage that republican party it looks to me like a beast simply wasn't able to produce a candidate which would have enough throwing focus and quarry it's very sad i mean i don't i'm not happy about i'm angry it's stupid but thank you david horowitz. visiting he did not leave i don't want them to call you nice he's a. human face time these are always thought i don't think he said so sometimes human faces i know myself out of his frocks growing up. ok thank you very much you think. ok night good except but you know you have to do it to be the stallion the sport of the sport about. six.