tv Sophie Co. Visionaries RT June 19, 2020 1:00am-1:31am EDT
well it's true you know 1st of all. which your thirst for action. volunteers are people missionaries these are. life coffee secreting that your mind be economic damage often coronavirus the damage is still being counted what's in store for us yesterday was to listen to mark time magazine's inflation world there's jeffrey sachs the fast economics that are on the center for sustainable development versity here is your advisor. professor and so great to have you with us we do want to. have
a chat with you for the longest time about how these times of damn week and there's a lot of the best times to actually pick your mind and maybe find out what is it that you're going through the entire year is to yourself last companies go bankrupt one after another the global economy is more than 5 trillion dollars in the best case scenario some acid suggests are currently in the eye of the hurricane and the worst is yet to yet to pop do you think they're right and how much worse can this get. we're obviously in a very deep crisis it is highly. differentiated across the world and i think this is the most important point in the asia pacific region yep and make is getting under control the policies have been smart and effective in stopping the spread of the virus in china japan korea. australia new zealand taiwan
hong kong vietnam malaysia and so on in western europe and in the united states the epidemic was not controlled effectively at all and in the us we have a complete mess because we have a failure of national leadership. mass deaths more than 110000 social unrest economic. catastrophe and throughout most of the rest of the americas resilin for example and mexico terrible terrible outcomes then the question is the rest of the world including russia including central asia including south asia including africa and the battle is on right now will it be more like the
asia pacific experience of stopping the spread of the epidemic or will it be more like the experience in the americas of the epidemic being out of control and it's a very difficult battle and it's a very important question my point is this epidemic can be controlled but it requires very strong public health measures it requires strong cooperation of the public it requires good leadership that is very clear on putting a priority on stopping the spread of the virus the reason i mention all of this is that if the epidemic continues as a disease the economies will not recover we will not have trade tourism the investments we will have continuing very deep economic crisis and so really to my mind good economics right.
now names good public help stop this virus from spreading learn from asia see what they have done successfully get this applied in our own countries i only wish the united states were growing this way but i'm white house of mystic fortunately. i actually believe that some just have done it with is too damn bad and there's and. it was so difficult for everyone because it was something completely new no one had to answer is no and the professor is now or if the doctors know who the president is no one knew how to deal with a was sealed honestly things about this today and the way to look it's not going to be completely over until the see his coverage and basket case in arizona every winter and we're still talking about a 2nd wait a 2nd even if we do contain him trying to minimize the damages from this disease from this damage we're still want to see the end of
a for another say 78 months what does it mean for the economy oh i think at a minimum it's a half a year or 2 years even if there is a vaccine which would be very very good luck if it would take quite a bit of time to test it for safety you can't just have a vaccine that works on a test group and then say oh now we're going to put it into the bodies of billions of people that would be completely reckless and so the truth of the matter is even though there is a lot of hope for back scenes coming early it's not going to be the solution to the next wave the next wave of this epidemic good it's going to be quite a long time between there is but before there is really an effective vaccine that is. already given to a large number. of the world population so we have to fight this by public health
means what is it that the east asian countries knew or figured out for us they wear face masks very basic they don't transmit the virus to others they take precautions they are screened at the workplace if there is a fever go home they have quarantined facilities they are contacting has staying and tracing infected people in other words if you are with symptoms you get tested immediately if you are positive your close contacts in the family or at the workplace or in. places that you visited are also quickly contacted and has did so these are standard procedures for fighting epidemics and they really should be applied everywhere urgently right now what it means for the world economy is we are definitely going to have
a significant disruption of the world economy for a long time to come the truth is even if there were a solution to the virus we will not have a nice shaped recovery meaning that we're going to bounce back anywhere near the rate that we have gone into a d. 5th line people are not going to go back to normal practices we're not going to get a construction boom anytime soon because we have more than empty office spaces everywhere people are going to stay home and work from home if they are in the kinds of work that allow for on line activities people are not going to be tourists traveling around the world at the same rates as before for an oil based economy like russia the price of oil is going to be considerably lower for quite a long time than it was before. for countries that depend on remittance income this
is going to be depressed i don't believe in a quick recovery i believe that a prolonged crisis is being more likely and i think we're going to need global cooperation for the recovery phase this is also very tricky because unfortunately the united states is trying to oppose cooperation it's trying in the middle of all of this crisis to make a new cold war with china and that is a ridiculous thing to do but that is because unfortunately we have a very poor leadership in the united states which is creating so many problems inside the country add international closer say when this condemning hey. it was so good to see how everyone consolidate and countries say yes they're for us and for mistaking care of their selves in their nations that they started
exchanging data and they started exchanging the goods that were in the mass and the medication and the doctors are from china to their information to their american to here and uses it to see that it will came together to combat this damage and that not a half of ranges that was very finger pointing and doing you are to place a you that i ask you today do you say when he say we need to come together to come out of this recession to see 100 percent. getting these possibilities kidney or it looks like this or says temporary come together and now they were morally maybe even more fragmented than before well there's definitely forces of fragmentation that are in my view quite dangerous and there are needs for cooperation that are more urgent if you look at places that are doing badly and containing the effort that. they tend to be the places also with the kind of strong
populist nationalism that are against cooperation in other areas as well look at the united states or resilin or other places where their leadership is already highly nationalistic really against multilateral cooperation but not even making sense to keep its own citizens safe we should be looking for cooperative approaches we were not doing so even before cope and it's not the u.s. approach at least of the trumpet ministration which wants the vision rather than cooperation that's why trump called out of the paris climate agreement trump cold out of the iran nuclear agreement trump told out of the world health organization a trump has launched a cold war against china because his whole strategy is divide
and this is not a strategy that is really what we need for solving any of the major problems in the world today. he is talking to jettison the facility konami set an example for sustainable development at columbia university and see here he has what is in the store for as many years he can stay with us. speaking to west point graduates were ending the era of endless war 4 years ago on the campaign trail he said. why is it so difficult for this president to make good
on this promise why make the promise again if it can't be kept. become a battleground in the us. people. right now my focus because it's a very dangerous. power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limits. just sort of puts a magnifying glass on the power in this country where's it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy our lie with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle. joined me every thursday. i'll be speaking to.
i'm sure i'll see you then. and we're back with jeffrey sachs the classroom economics after the sashes versus standard development and columbia university and see here you had better faster you're saying we need cooperation to get out of this crisis let's say things are a deal i will. cooperate we still can go back to how things were going to be the new normal and you mentioned the climate change and a lot of people who are like you know if this can down they actually showed that the climate and the planet need these 2 months of sitting at home and we can see the amount is that we weren't able to see for 30 years and we see the errors in the
streets of paris in the territory say so just recently as a does it make him a zing environmentalist or the only leader he added or a yes answer as healy said is correct practice is given us a head start to build a career in or economy of the future i mean something that would be pushing away because it wasn't like needed right now he said because we need to separate 0 anyways this is like the perfect timing to start a new type of model new type of economy this is a future where you put it but i want to know is it possible to friend the whole economy just like that sully on the weight of condemning. well it's clear that we needed a new approach even before the pandemic that's why we reached to. global agreements in 201511 the sustainable development goals and the 2nd on the paris climate agreement these are very important new directions for
a world to be safer on climate pollution and destruction of nature it says we need a sustainable approach for the world the problem was and remains that this requires the transition from a fossil fuel based world to a renewable energy world and the fossil fuel based countries russia is one of them the united states is another mexico is another saudi arabia is another australia is another were resisting the move from fossil fuels to sustainable energy because they said hey we've got fossil fuel resources this is our livelihood so. yes coded 19 has led to a dramatic drop of oil use oil prices plummeted there's
a glut in the markets it was only when russia and saudi arabia cut the supplies the prices gone up a bit but the real issue is a more fundamental issue the real issue is whether the fossil fuel producing countries will work constructively. to develop renewable energy as the alternative because if the fossil fuel producing countries the gulf countries the united states canada australia russia and so forth continue to promote fossil fuels we don't make it transformation so i believe we should make the transformation it's really important for public safety it's important for a safe planet i think every country could crosser in a low carbon economy but there are a lot of strong interests that don't want that transformation. a lot of people have
been coming to the conclusion that this new model of the economy that we have now see have s. is going to be like 22 days to e-commerce orientated and they said businesses feels that we're starting to be poor and we're supposed to be temporary here so we're very high and things are there are supposed to die off in 1020 years also died off in one night so they have ways to navigate was like an accelerator for the things that need to be a start and things to that he said to be actually left behind for both of them were thinking about this see anything of this sort of digital face e-commerce face economy to you know what's wrong with it i can actually well i think when you describe what's happening extremely well this was an incredible excel or and and i've spoken with so many businesses that have said you know we realized we could be
60 percent on line or 70 percent and we didn't know it before i spoke with a senior un agency official who said that there had been a lot of resistance to working online intel suddenly they say oh this works fine there's not a problem we can do this so i think we are going to see. a long term change coming from this short term crisis it's pretty much across the economy it's definitely in my sector of education after all the universities when i lived in a week i've been teaching for a long time but it was sometimes felt maybe it wasn't the best etiquette shouldn't you be in the classroom but the truth is you can do a lot of very interesting selectable things are bringing in speakers for all over the world. aging in new ways of had
a goatee which i personally like actually i think it adds. content. and riches so if you think about it it's in offices it's it commerce it's in governance it should be voting and registrations and licensing services online why standing lie in a government office when it can be done so conveniently online it's eat payments it's ethan and saying it's easy education it's easy health with telemedicine not for everything but for quite a lot of what needs to be done so i'm in agreement with i like it because it could reduce wear and tear on us it's not all or nothing an office is a good thing once a week maybe maybe twice a week to see colleagues and to socialize and dab at it bandage but every day in an
office for work that one can do on line really doesn't make sense commuting is no fun for a lot of people why spend an hour each day going to and from an office with all of the physical resources the carbon emissions and so forth about in jails when you don't need to do so so i believe we could move to a world of more leisure that's cleaner that is less wear and tear on the earth and on our bodies but there's one important point also that i think needs to be mentioned the way that this could work is. either everybody gets some benefit from less commuting podmore leisure time saving money and so forth or we all end up basically working for just the big cat companies you know the biggest gainer of this epidemic has been jeffrey b.
so about the last hours isn't his you was this guy that all those tax returns just say hey 50 percent repair while his 6 years in the wealthy people you know are going to be living at a below average in line after this is over and still. talk to me about that sas and we have a good asset that this could work out for arrest if they you know if we all agree that we can't do this task based e.-commerce face economy as long as we don't end up all working for tax as to why you got this huge gap that has become given a huge account where we see hilarious getting rich share people losing jobs and are going to be living under a party line system and then people have to this and to me and will we see that basically the disappearance of middle class how how does that play out obviously it won't play out well if it isn't addressed through public policy mr
b.'s ost today is with that worth of a $150000000000.01 person. this is the $35000000000.00 increase since the start of the year he's been a huge gainer at mark zuckerberg $10000000000.00 on facebook his personal net worth i'm not talking about the company obviously a so this is ridiculous you know when you think that amazon basically pays no taxes it paid no tax at all for several years that it heinie amount in 2019. we can't go on this way what what kind of society were one individual as $150000000000.00 of net worth and so many people suffering just to stay alive so we need a system of taxation we need a system of. meeting basic needs of health care education and so forth that costs
money and that requires a redistribution of income from the mega mega mega rich to the rest of society and we need to ensure that he will who have jobs have decent jobs a lot of people have gotten sick in amazon warehouses this spring that's not right a lot of people have gotten sick in doing the basic things to keep our society going during the pandemic and they're the most marginalized course people and in the united states they don't even have health care much of the time because our societies unbelievably unfair it's just money owned and operated and sobeys are things that are absolutely now on the agenda and if they weren't on the agenda before they are on the agenda because there's protests all over america about the
racial injustice but also about the economic injustice so i don't think that it's going to stick this kind of inequality but it needs now to be. channeled into actual policies to make the new kind of accommodate fairer that everybody has the benefits of education health care basic social services that no one should have 150000000000 dollars i don't care how clever you are in inventing how clever an enterprise most of that should be taxed away because we don't function well in a society with such extraordinary income and wealth inequality and finally just around you feel like the government's general rolly dealing with a pandemic economic shake recently she's very hoarse a few years in terms of emergency like this for instance and other you deal. with it one of the best mask or a suit is a landmark assertive so it's tough out in
a natural way. all good societies are mixed societies where there's a strong role of government including regulation income redistribution and providing social services a market which allows for entrepreneurship and flexibility and a civil society these are the hallmarks of a good society they are a middle way between extremes between the extreme of all state ownership and central clan and between the extreme of just. our end as markets without any kind of social justice and so it's an old idea in philosophy and western philosophy and eastern philosophy choose the middle path and that i think is the right strategy economically as well in the united states
we are a money driven society were a money driven political system were the money pays for the campaigns the big wealth and this does not lead to social fairness inclusion or a proper role of the state the new deal that we had under franklin roosevelt who i regard as our greatest president was a middle path it had government and it had business working sometimes in conflict and and sometimes cooperatively and that is in my view the right approach what we don't have right now by the way more than anything is we don't have the thinking going on in government and without rationality we're getting terrible terrible outcomes and so i'm trying to think hard about how to put thinking back into our political system of the best babysitter for this n.g. citizen feelings i praise and you get more and more with.
cannot be both with the yeah you know what. was needed last the boldest i know when we've been imaging less of that solicit it was a propagandist you also. heard from the regular morgue or your home or your partner are going to be moving through right. i'm. not at all over. my water source like you would overdose lucifer mistletoe is just that i'm like i don't i'm just i have nobody it is not my achievement mr davies are 5 you have plans for conceive but they need to get it out by the people themselves if how they would produce or even flirted with the idea of making a film like this they'd probably be branded as crazy. now was the sentiment during the war because the soviets were brave heroes resisting the nazis that's going to
change of course after the world. once the cold war begins. little people think that hollywood is a free slaves only what is a strictly defined by one side of the business and the other side is ideology. how would i define hollywood is they call it the dream manufacture which i think true but i think equally it's a propaganda factor. one else seemed wrong. but all in all just don't call. me cold yet to stamp out disdain apathy. and in detroit because the trail. when something find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.
hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle speaking to west point graduates trying to say we're ending the air of endless war 4 years ago on the campaign trail he said the same thing why is it so difficult for this president to make good on this promise why make the promise again if it can't be kept.