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tv   Going Underground  RT  July 27, 2020 12:00am-12:30am EDT

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carnage on american streets has black lives matter protesters and authorities face off in the hardest hit cities this weekend were in portland and seattle. among the other stories that shaped the week the u.k.'s opposition labor party pushes for artie's broadcast license to be revoked after a report on alleged russian influence. in a 2nd wave imminent several countries see a spike in corona virus cases just weeks after reopening their doors to tourists. and israel is gripped by public outrage over the prime minister's handling of the pandemic amid an ongoing process and probe against him. those are the headlines at
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this hour for more on the story you can go to our website r.t. dot com i'll be back with headlines again about now is time stay with us. time after time say we're going underground of the start of the 3rd round of u.k. u.s. talks to secure a post breaks a trade deal which could boost the u.k. economy by up to point 16 percent over 15 years i made accusations in the united kingdom is now more of a vassal state of washington than ever before but one of these trade will turn sour and the answer be found in the world's happiest country as nato governments scramble for socialism to reverse decades immune to build up of nation in the face of coronavirus we all spoke with professor danny dorling what boris johnson may
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need to learn about plus health education and equality and the director of columbia university's climate and health program explains why one 3rd of the code is related deaths in the usa the country. more reported of a death and any other could have been saved if the trumpet ministration had taken action just 2 weeks earlier or the more coming up in today's going underground at 1st as britain contends with the west coronavirus jeffrey capita rate of any g 20 nation what could make britain or for that matter the country and arguably takes its foreign policy from the usa happier joining me now via skype from cambridge is oxford university is often akin to professor of geography danny dorling his latest work co-written with an accordion in his coffin topia what we can learn from the world's happiest country ok danny you're going to have to tell me thanks for going back you going to have to tell me what the country is 1st of all i guess it's that last 3 years are the best estimate is i mean come on. maybe people know sim alias's a karelia. song chuen but i mean apart from that it's cold
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it's racist as your book tells us it's dark all the time high incidences of alcohol high incidence of gambling is that what makes happiness there were high and about the whole abuse that has been reducing dramatically the pins are incredibly worried about gambling which is partly why they nationalized it take control of it to get it down they are worried about the rate racism in finland it's not particularly high. as far as european race who goes but it's an issue fades and you just have a light into things which are worse which we we don't look at in this book but if you look at the things that the best sadistic finless a few years ago plainly finally got the courage up to list the 100 free international social rankings a which finland ranks one to wait and there is no other country in the world the ranks 1st 2nd or 3rd in over 100 matches and you explain that in
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no way is this because finland is imo isolated from geopolitical is straight this is. despite having a turbulent past sandwiched between east and west russia and sweden in its case how did it managed to navigate and i know you going to great detail just briefly added manisha navigate on either side to empires just over a century ago finland was one of the police parts of europe and examples of a warrior people. it ended up in a way on the whole side in the 2nd won't will have a reparations after that by not being dominance by actually having been a colony of suite in the colony of russia colony actually in germany. builds have to work together and did there was incredible struggles in the ninety's this isn't the seventy's a change in education is something better in hindsight you could say that finland has the advantage of not having been dominant in the past of not having
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a supercilious attitude about itself in a way in europe finland is kind of the opposite of england i mean there was a heart of the biggest empire about 70 finland was one of the colonies of fundamental though to this happened as according to your book is the idea of equality a sign i don't know whether the finnish communist party never went away there was a cause a civil war that you charged it never embrace the reagan fashion world fully even though there were from time to time departures into privatisation which of course led to it to suffering 2008 yes it did. a little bit to the finish complete with this communist party left that there actually in the left party which is much more dominated by a full a women's parties the left party in finland is part of the common government and the lives of 5 parties so if the left in britain want to look. for what they should do they really should look at fein and where left wing parties
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left of social democrats came together and actually stop fighting each other feel and have so many lessons so many people back out of these things that yeah you talk about women's rights you and your co-author of course writing in britain where a one figure came out during this pandemic that most children are one paycheck away from not having enough to eat just explain some of the social protections that you suggest are essential for happiness oh what a difference i mean a common situation in england is truly awful the treasury produced or polls on the 8th of july claiming that the poll is borne anybody out to b.b.c. news stories to the house of commons so. committees a treasury committee and a public rez committee dominated both by conservatives boast that ming about government but for the lack of a security and the fact that now if you look at the standard life data we're looking at 10000000 households possibly 25000000 people in serious financial
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difficulty and it buys it fin and have been storing p.p.a. protective equipment in case a pandemic it is extremely hard to end up on the streets in finland and even are that the flight that in the by this lake has the lowest times that's right in the whole of europe. finance firms the most education in this is where it beats i was going to lay the countries of the nordic countries spent the most on the bottom quarter of children a quarter who had the balls or you might have done well at that school they have the most spent on the contras the haps the guy you can guess who we spent it eventually the most money on well what is it actually not arms is. when i know we spend 33 percent of all the money that we spend on secular education goes on the 7 percent of you to go to private school yet private schools emerges as
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a as a theme in the education chapter i mean do you see it as essential the destruction of a private education system to create. a more equal society that will then create human happiness it's quite you know the story in finland isn't so much of that in that never had much of a private education. schooling system in fact most of us never did it's a very good english and slightly scottish thing the big battle in finland was against grammar schools and sixty's and seventy's and selective education and the idea of educating all but also finland has has one i would idea that anything goes school should be good you shouldn't have parents worrying about their children going to figure schools simply with their universities their. the university hierarchy. but it is incredibly narrow and degree some of the universities which is seen more towards the bottom are seen as very very high value your complete equal of like the idea that the master's degree from
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a university in finland might help less because of where where that comes from isn't there i mean if you think about you it is like a kind of trust to children but your children in many ways when it comes to captivates life expectancy the pandemic inequality we can all see the it has at the bottom of most of the rankings of european states and finland is at the top so it's like picking the child he does best at school little bit of every chance you know and it can it can get a bit great looking at the going to how well and how good finland does there are all kinds of reasons as to why because there always will be european country that does better on average than all of your big countries you have if you're not dog great to hear that britain is doing so badly but if anyone thinks finland is somehow alien you do show that it's been affected by the vicissitudes of globalization you say we know it from nakia of course the telecoms market they got
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into there because presuming it was dark and big distances and lots of snow but then too they too were affected by globalization they're going to be now maybe by sanctions on china and they too tried out some elements of well not the full lansley approach we've done here to privatizing national health services but they also tried different types of marketization in their services they're not that alien that i know they're not they make mistakes but what's interesting is the country that that small a few people and was at some point so reliant on them like not units and it's ink. busters spread out over what they do you can suddenly see nakia collapse in the last most popular. it's been beaten by mouth advertising we now spend a fortune on harm that actually is the little about they bounce back and there is a there is a resilience there is the idea that you have to really do it in the south and it
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isn't an amateur it's analogous you see any idea stage now we're the best in a while make america great again the great there isn't the out of that you see in britain which i think comes from reading and by human and by telling ourselves that you deserve them and but. equally you will feel and it's we have to work hard we have to learn we have to be able to do the same but don't let other people get above. the exploit that was because that will be in a fish this is to 6 of the most shocking we found well that work life balance they were about how people and people without the great people without high school of occasions were most able to choose what hours they worked. and you can see this if you go to helsinki and try to get yourself something to eat at 9 or 10 o'clock at night into really hard because nobody wants the washing dishes dishes that never look at night the most any disagreeable was when finland produced the lowest mortality rate in world history if you were going $100.00 babies died in one year
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if. you know that's absolutely stunning one might say that ok finland hasn't had the genocidal history of the united states against native americans indigenous peoples the britons colonial legacy is it all over now though i mean there are sanctions being imposed on china boris johnson obviously has expelled the hallway of a 5 g. seems to say one's nakia from finland nakia keep completely dependent on chinese component also there are sanctions threatened on russia which presumably will also hit the finnish economy as russia has a big trade trading partner of finland it can't get away this time every. i've. been in tricky situations before you got a member the film was on the border of the cold war it was in the most dangerous place when we were preparing to fight
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a nuclear war in the middle of you know. i think you will get away with this not least as the power of the us i. now only 5 companies have kept their share price in america netflix amazon. apple microsoft the deep these can't these companies are exploiting the rest of the world producing something with google so it's a 5th one she says something that isn't that hard to do a search engine is not that clever delivering goods by truck on electric so this is not that clever america the pens almost 5 monopoly companies as it annoys the rest of the world we're going to start to look at why are you using those 5 american countries companies for its distribution of goods for it's entertainment. we're going to start looking at doing it in different ways i think certainly the friends of famous for diplomacy nobody's going to tell the americans their face you know really really really annoying us now but i do think america has shot itself in the
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foot one time too many and really would not be concerned about its power over than of course its enormous military. those 5 presumably companies obviously say what they do is very complicated and very innovative. about the facebook i could a bit too much over facebook when i was a university student i was well why didn't you that's what my exact words were tell you i was going to finish by asking your ok of you think finland is going to manage to traverse this complicated minefield ahead of it in terms of geopolitical economic warfare will climate change due to finland what nothing else has it's one of the biggest fears in finland which is why finland that that it is so i think net 0 for 21st if i like 15 years i had the u.k. why does there have been more green technologies asked than anyone else i know is
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life in the forefront of producing proteins that only use meat and do not require sunlight and soon as you know because i like to buy proteins you really can't use an enormous amount of food in the. area it's ironic really that some of the people in the wild to live in at least in winter some of us gets ready to graze but in winter some of the coldest parts of the planets are whirring most about climate change does your state has the fins i think over their global outlook the magnanimous way in which they operate because if you value each other equally if you see people as well while sigal country it's easier to see people outside you can choose while as well president enjoying thank you. often the right. team have seasons we investigate the potential resurgence in the spread of coronavirus in the coming months with the director of columbia university's climate
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and health program all the small coming up about to a going underground. just russia be meddling in u.k. politics according to initial reports the answer is maybe trying it and the usual highly likely report is it does also secretary of state might prompt a always on a crusade against china does anyone outside the beltway really care. i 1st heard about you know. from the helicopter folks in iraq. i saw him get down actually going to going to his military who have never forgiven. this guy traitor and truth and
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a book of every little thing it leaves you saw he was really starting to have. independent journalists that you got to see a lot of crimes to outnumber the audience. the idea of developing an anonymous digital trombones and of clients in the media consensus tends to make sense that was a friend's. going to the floor and to write it would be crucial. and one of the world's most powerful news will remain very serious anderson anderson every founder to the song get a song going on and there was a great deal of jealousy the mainspring for the song the fit why won't it be more marked off they have to seem all. the same. since my.
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records. for. julia ties in solitary confinement in the prison for terrorists await you know how it's a live person. i don't see him dying. i don't. know what he's going. welcome back around a virus has killed over half a 1000000 like a hurricane as disproportionately ended the lives of the vulnerable but how valid is the metaphor of a hurricane as we approach winter when according to one study the u.k. alone may see 120000 more killed columbia university research as argue that not only could lives have been saved earlier but that it may be possible to predict a virus like you predict the weather the director of columbia university's climate and health program professor geoffrey sherman joins me now last skype from new york
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city thank you so much jeffrey for coming on so we've heard about the influence of manmade climate change on creating new pandemics on this show before but you're working on the relationship between climate focusing and forecasting influenza just tell me about the research well it's a components of it really what it is actually using climate conditions trying to understand how they affect the survival the viability the transmissibility of different types of pathogens such as simple ones and that sort of a direct relationship between atmospheric conditions and what are the outcomes for infectious diseases the other component though is to use the methods that are used to generate numerical weather prediction that is the framework the mathematical and statistical approaches and apply them to infectious disease systems generate forecasts of those systems we sometimes actually combine the 2 methods together to make an even better prediction system but that's the gist of it that's what we're trying to do and try to make something that will give us some insight into what is
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coming our way in the future well when you live on an island like britain it's hard to forecast from a day to day but we haven't had the day to day week to week press conferences and so on telling us about deaths infections and so on of coronavirus you really think that the aim here in the possibility it holds out is that we may be able to forecast week to week prevalence of coven i actually don't and i may come as a shock to you because i don't think it's a good. point we certainly are still at the ones fork over 19 and the reason is that we're disrupting it so much in order to make a prediction of a hurricane making landfall for instance you don't expect human society and it debra's to disrupt what that hurricane does similarly when we make predictions of seasonal flu humans are fairly predictable about what they do they don't change their patterns and we don't do that much to disrupt it so we can make predictions based on the dynamics and the environmental forcing of that system but for covert 19 the world is taking it with
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a different very different approach it's highly disruptive and what's going to happen in the future is strongly depends on what we as societies do what our political leaders dictate we should do is are there shelter in place orders are that compelling mask usage and what the general public is going to do are they going to isolate are they going to search distance or are they going to use the mass and how well because we don't have a crystal ball into human behavior both politically and at an individual level to say what the public will do we're not making forecasts of what will happen or overnight team i should add though that doesn't mean we don't try to project possible future outcomes we do do that we try to scope out one of the range of possibilities and you might ask well why bother doing it if it can't be specific and the aim there is to try to suss out what are the possible realistic things that could happen what are the end members one of the guy posts that are going to say how bad this might get or how bad it might not be dependent on what we do but it's
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not really a forecast where it's going to tell you how many cases we're going to have because we're being much too disruptive with this virus we're trying to stop it so aside from the political decisions on lock downs on mosques and so on you can though still find correlations of a kind with. maybe no wind speed maybe no precipitation would say something like temperature so that can be added into the mix of our analysis as i said there was analysis he ever southampton university saying $120000.00 could be killed here this winter. right and so what they're looking at there is a 2nd wave coming in now there have been a number of studies that have been put together that have tried to look to see whether or not this disease this pathogens r c o b 2 is sensitive to conditions such as u.v. radiation temperature and humidity conditions and one of the reasons why we look at that is that there are 4 endemic coronaviruses these are viruses that are
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circulating in our mitts all the time they cause very mild illness they go by funny names like o c 43 and h j you want what we notice because we have been tracking them for that long simply because they're very mild or we've noticed over the last 67 years is that in fact they are very seasonal and there seasonality mirrors that of influenza in that they peak in december january and february and they're very minimal in their activity in the summer months so there's concern with this novel virus which is also 'd a corona virus and it's related to these viruses that it may have some innate seasonality when people have looked at it what they have found is there is some evidence that it does have some seasonality it's not enough to stop it in the summer time though right now because there's too little immunity in the population and the virus itself is too aggressive but it may not be as transmissible we're still see it everywhere in the united states where i have it's running rampant but the concern is as we get into october november december the virus will become more
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transmissible because of environmental conditions and art and it will be even more difficult to control and we could see a very large 2nd wave it as found this is no peer reviewed as yet but it's a correlation a strong correlation which of course may not mean causation but there is a strong correlation to suggest in this seasonality yes actually there are some studies that are out as peer reviewed studies at this point but there are a lot of other studies that are just pretty prints at this point it's very noisy there are a lot of people who investigated this line of research would see. on average the balance of evidence says that there is some modulation due to environmental conditions of the transmissibility of this iris not enough to stop it in summer time in the northern hemisphere but enough to say that there may be some more concerns as we go into winter when it becomes even more transmissible and harder to control it may not be weather specific with that how do we arrive at a number of 150000000 cases rather than the w.h.o.
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has 15000000 cases of coronavirus scientists and you think we're only getting a 10th of what's really going on. that has to do with some modeling studies that we've done and we can also see that now from cereal prevalence ass's where they tested for antibodies broadly in the population for instance in new york city if you look at how many people have been infected it's about 2.5 percent of the population have actually had confirmed cases but everybody's testing shows that about 20 percent of the population hasn't been infected at this ports so that's a multiple of roughly 8 to 10 that we're seeing are 8 to 10 times as many people have been in fact and the reason this virus gets around so easily is that the majority of people who are infected with it never see clinical care their symptoms are never bad enough that they actually want to see a doctor they may have mild symptoms a little sore throats of aches a little bit of fever they may even stay home but it's not enough to motivate them
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to see that doctor as a consequence they're not captured they're never swabs and they're never put into those cases counts so we've seen this over and over again that there are undocumented infections associated with a lot of common respiratory viruses and it's what the scylla takes their ability to get around with a lot or we're talking about overestimating the number of deaths and double counting because of statistical problems you're saying what you just said there were how many more may have been killed than actually go into the statistics so i'm not talking about deaths right now i'm talking about the number of cases that. exist out there i'm talking about the fact that when you see it out let's say in the united states right out of 607-5000 cases in a day you can actually multiply that by 810 say there are actually 8 to 10 times as many infections that day in terms of mortality there is a sense that it's underestimated to an extent but the estimates that i've seen that i can leave are reliable suggests that it's about 20 to 30 percent undercount so
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you can multiply it by 1.21.3 well that's certainly know what we're hearing from the white house as you know. if you're talking about the white house are you talking about the projections the white house is making saying that we could see this many cases well that there are you talking about how many we've seen already well as far as we know the cases that we're in the graph the white house press conferences are the number of cases that occur over 24 hour period and of course the number of deaths over 24 hour period but you're saying they are underestimated numbers they are a little bit underestimated could you specifically tell me what specific remark the white house you're referring to that are clear for me well well of course donald trump said that the united states has the best mortality numbers and has actually correlated testing to the number of new cases rather than any other correlation but i mean no away from that conflict used also appears to echo what neil
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ferguson here one of the top advisers until he had to resign from imperial college saying that the lockdown was implemented too late we'll fix in here said the. may be tens of thousands going to be saved a lot come as early as something you agree with the in the united states as well yes as a matter of fact we don't have specific study on that in the united states and the reality is that a virus like this is growing it's growing exponentially and the earlier you jump on an exponential process it has enormous diffidence it's actually going to greatly reduce the number 2. cases and the mortality associated with it we've actually quantify that for the united states and shown that if we'd done exactly what we did in all the heterogeneous fashion where different cities were implementing controls at different time points and to different degrees but if you just packed all that up one week and all the cities it's on it one week earlier it would have more than half the mortality that occurred in the 1st wave the whites are the united states so definitely if you can jump on this early you're going to do better and this is
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not just about looking at it retrospectively it's about looking at what it means going forward so if we're concerned that there's risk of aids wintertime wait comic we have to be very vigilant we have to be willing to reimpose the measures that allowed us to control this virus in the 1st place certainly for you in the u.k. in the u.s. we haven't been able to control it but in the u.k. and other places where they have been able to squash it out you have to be very vigilant you have to jump on any flare ups that occur with the virus very quickly otherwise it's going to get out of control well grow exponentially again and all overwhelm you if you're not that vigilance well we've we've squatted down but we obviously have a higher death because of the rate than the united states as the figure is currently show and in fact what the government here is saying is the important thing now is to get back to work get the economy running the g.d.p. growth going i understand you had to want some environmental scientists say that cove it is a sign of
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a ripple effect of climate change well no i actually don't believe that i believe that combet is parallel and analogous to some of the features we see in climate change i think komen is a manifestation of more our use of resources our deforestation aren't pro-choice and on wildlife our population growth and some of the other issues that lead to sustainability but i do not see a direct connection to climate change and the emergence of cover 90 professor geoffrey sherman thank you. you're welcome thank you for that's it for the show will be back on wednesday 62 years to the day u.s. president eisenhower signed off the creation of nasa shortly before it had senior level nazis for its rocket program until then wash hands join the underground and you tube twitter facebook instagram some time.

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