tv Worlds Apart RT November 22, 2020 10:30pm-11:01pm EST
if you would like to disagree, i think you go say see a real shift. i mean the problem is donald trump was of course and still is that he's not a real democrat if keely authoritarian tendencies. we see that in his refusal to leave the white collar to concede the election to joe biden, though it's pretty clear that yes, lost the election. even republican senator now is in there, and at least i learned behavior asking you know about, oh yeah, absent of policy. yeah, exactly. and so joe biden, bill has announced it will convene a summit for democracy, so he wants to rally americans and us round the table again to really make them more coherent to improve the relationship, particularly c. or p. and ls suno and the relations resume, a 2 relations was in the e.u. back if straight he had a very hostile, almost relationship to international folks. so biden will have
a totally different policy. if you critias, the value of the last international, he seems to realize that the united states is a lot stronger to get its allies rather than to go it alone. and under and the trump we saw a more you knew lateral america going to do alone. policy, and i think that will change fundamentally in one of your recent analysis of times when policy you single out, it's 3 primary strands, disengaging the us from local politics, does deigning allies, you just retreated. that point right now. and the friending autocratic leader, he's now naturally as a russian, as and perhaps at in your new as a shill for one set arc radek leader. i want to ask you specifically, what has it mean befriending autocratic leader? well, we had a very disconcerting closeness under trumps. that for example, trump became very close to saudi arabian crown. and you know that the crown prince
was at least implicated in the murder, also generalists, cutchogue, and by everybody. then that trump did not say a word about it instead of that he continued having very good relations, a lot of personal relations with members of this administration at that same also, he did not criticize what was going on in europe regarding hungry and poland. and the presently, or to credit policies of these 2 countries. cus, you know, it's condemned, it is trying to do something about it. trump has kept quiet. and oh say that you would see that. and i read that proposal. arcee said to be equating public statements. rapturing to policy and as a foreign policy of the united states and our start as i'm sure you teach your students that words are not the same as actions. absolutely. but like statements don't make up a policy, in fact, and those that you would be diametrically opposed to one another. so again, let's not look at public statements. i read there is
a major difference in style in persona and character, but there is a personal things i am asking you about the substantive change in the course of the united states. and again in full is it terms because at least in the liberal circles, they don't love using this befriending autocratic leaders cliche. but what does it mean in adelaide equal terms? big, all of that policy demeans of that policy and the possible outcomes of that policy in that he's been, are obviously, you know, for example, as i mentioned, the summit off democracy, of course, tells people where the wind is blowing in the united states. and he wanted out of here in her i want to sell your bill supports the e.u. regarding the policy towards poland in hungary, while trump has indirectly, but be quiet by expressing sympathies as expressed support for these people. and that of course, involved. and you don't, you won't see that still in bold meant and of having said that. but of course also
realize the strategic relationship, the united states has to sortie arabia. you will not true saudi arabia into an enemy, and no one would expect that. on the other hand, you've not let the crown prince get away with these sort of calls. can i ask you something about these women? why is president biden, who was in office together with president obama? they tell him that allowed saudi arabia to launch one of the most murderous, bloodiest wars there is, has still continuing right now. i mean, i understand that there is a certain air resonance, about the absolute horrific nature of that one killing. but under biden, and barack obama, hundreds of thousands of such killings have been taking place. can you really put down this, so your ministry of their coverage of the wall of a human conducted for saudi arabia and of those had to stop to do it while obama was in power. and it's certainly this one. it's
a black clients of the obama administration, the only one. i don't know, not saying that it's one of my points that they didn't do anything about it, but biden was, of course, vice president. he did have an influence obama could if i say in the end, he did possum's a guy who took the decision that clearly was president. that is different now. and of course, also in the last few years or so, you can statements have to look for what is going on in that part of the world. how to start troy has become how terrible that the human cost has been. so i would expect to reverse that course and not too soon for saudi arabia or yes that so, and of course this will govern the, their quality issues and they say things during combat. it's therefore up when these statements, but i would expect a biden to do so it clearly is more in favor of human rights, for example, in general. then for example, president trump, who never even use a term of human rights. well, you didn't hear my next question and i think it's partially ties meant that my
questions about your choice of vocabulary that is befriending the autocratic leaders because it's true that donald trump had a more pragmatic, last moralistic approach to foreign policy. and i think it's high time where the will to debate how we define morality in international relations. what is good and what is bad? what are the limits? the legitimate uses of military power, so that we don't see carnage like we saw in yemen in libya, in iraq, all of which were born out of good moralistic intentions. repeat again. and my question to you is don't you think that by using east liberal catchphrase is befriending, which is essentially an attack by association. you're out in a way kind of flashing the need for the world to have that conversation. and if you, if you look around the world is really crying out for it because all the major problems we have right now refugees, internally displaced, been down,
makes immigration, the riser for a populist. they can all be tied to the war. it's a band slowly. i know, and i think, i think you can agree that human rights are something to do was killing people and killing people is always a bad idea. and that applies to all countries be. it's the united states or russia, or china, or other great house. you know, gay or getting involved or stopping was pushing was next in countries that are trying to develop incursions in countries is a bad thing. and biden is a case here for him. and there isn't proportion, right? mean examples only because i feel the only reason to russians are, as i'm always there really well a lot have now the signal light was low there, you cannot compress something like that. so you look, let's say an operation and leave the air, which again is the same matter of analysis. you can't compare, compare the killing of to shaw gets you the bloody war in vietnam that the obama
administration has oversaw. so the question is, who is really moral and these in,, oh no, i mean, so you are a b.s., not just gilchrist. show you that of course, very active in yemen and in other conflicts around the world or not, or didn't you now do a final round other ministries and yeah, we might get the money horse and united states needs to do something about that. and biden has sat, he would do so whether belief in whether he will follow up. we don't know costs, you will not be a perfect president. he will not fulfill all of our human rights expectations. and their strategic considerations. also all considerations that any president, any pretty sure s. to take into rica. however, the president trump was a very ruthless politician who only looked at strategic. it's just, he did not consider human rights at all. and i think this will change. definitely,
that doesn't mean that the united states now will pursue a policy that is exclusively oriented along human rights. like this might be nice, this might be a perfect scenario, is unlikely to have professor lars eller as for all his recklessness. donald trump has launched a single war stuff. sometimes. i mean, when you can be a cunt pierre, you know how many human lives lost out of concern for human rights. sometimes you may think that perhaps it's safer for the world for that americans. do you put that aside, but earlier or defend over the boat? i'm not defending, and i'm actually, i'm not buying into this american habit of looking at that parents. as i think this is, there's a strong strand in the russian foreign policy of actually looking at the results, not what they call you, but what they do at the end of the day. and what are your plans is because if you can do my country and kill my child out of good intentions, i don't care what your intentions were. i can i care about my, my life sunbeam laws that are if you have
a brief look at it on the trump policies and we haven't launched this in the war. that's the arizona drill. i don't disagree said of course he hasn't, but still the world is a no mess. you know, we have relations with russia which have become better. we have relations with china, very tense, very constituents, yes, relations. because iran, it's a very constituent, even last week, a few days ago, dollars rent a pound. they consider bombing iran. you have the transatlantic alliance, which are good for interests in a mask that all happened under the trumps this. these are not good developments. i drunk to that, that he did not launch a major wall that are not this letter is being because there is a huge difference between what our warts which here was waging and the real war that claims life. anyway, personal are so we have to take a very short break right now we're going to go back to the spirited conversation after a few moments that you are israel
our lab at chapel hill professor, just before the break, we were discussing the aremu, the commitment of the united states to human rights and democracy. and do you joe biden's credit? i want to add mention that he was one of the very few people within the obama administration who was against the whole libya endeavor. and he actually in a way, repurpose trumps all the rhetoric for and in the endless wars in biden's terms. it's there for our wars which have cost the united states untold blood and treasure, and he forgot to mention though, that many of those wars were either launched directly or indirectly approved by the united states. but anyway, do you think the biden administration will be ready for some kind of like, why and alice is of how this american leadership is supposed to be instead reinstituted onto their walls because as i'm sure you would remember me, the world in 2021 is very different from the world, even in 2016, you know,
most american administrations spent that come into office. they consider all their foreign policy relations are always a world that is usually an exercise at ministration. gus and i'm sure joe biden ministration do that as well. what you will see, and that is perhaps the major difference was a trumpet. ministration is a more predictable and more reliable, foreign policy, elyse and solos know what to expect from the white house for policy. it won't change every 2 days. so something like that bill actually, i think also be predicted by those countries themselves. a so-so america, including perhaps russia and china and saudi arabia who will be in the middle, you know, it will not be regarded as a foe. it will not be regarded as a close friend, for example. so read new book. we can expect a new approach. and i think that maybe
a new approach should try it. sound relations in a goes away from that heated every day media circus, a tree soul, and a president. trump, in the end, as a president by bill not be a perfect president. no president can be evil, have strategic considerations to consider from his point of view, from an american point of view. we juma, priest, china, russia, all other countries to some extent. but i think that will also, he will also make an attempt, and that is probably what he has learned in over 50 years. and honestly, if that isn't a good idea to find call in ground, it was countries you may have not had the best relationship is talking about in russia, the renewal of the human stocks treaty, i think, would be a great stuff for having something like a reset with russia, interest, china, they are also other considerations like cooperation on climate change, for example,
cooperation, maybe on of ghana's than on the middle east. so that the areas you can find where countries who are not necessarily friendly was each other can cooperate for a little. you can do not all circumstances you can find that unless you are arab, as jim and i blog and meet you are ready to eat raw misstatements of the by the, in its mission and that, you know, a lot of very abstract language about human rights and democracy and there are lots and lots of practical issues in the walls that i want all the names of all why me migrates. and robert mind what channel or that dumps and all about the american news and democracy, but the corporation on those issues get more offended by one side's ideologic wash actory. do you think the bidens stray showers are up for that south? you're engaged those countries. glen's all respect,
especially when it sooner you know, i can spend one day, saturday over the last 20 years about russia, about exam. i don't know how they can do that. serious. i mean, that goes both ways. no politicians tend to say a lot about each other, and when that then you're going to marry that enemy, act it out, right? that are all at summit, if they don't talk in a similar way. and of course, you know, biden is well known for having a countless set to have. i may have to do that. he looked into his soul and his eyes and didn't find a soul. that is, i'm sure, a room, i can smell it going. it's already being drier. let me just remind our viewers that elsa came was great, you 1000 allowed that counts as against running for president. again, speaking about interference in expenses, electoral navy, your having to get very long history and very much trouble is. i mean, you cannot cross talk about that into funes in each of those countries. and each of
us domestic policy, russian descent from nation come paints 201-6228 kind of way and have been concerned. but i don't want to go into that. what i don't want to say is replications actually meet privately in a room or at a summit, then election campaigns off to rooms full of the media images. they also have to take into consideration for that message or, you know, it says on both sides. they usually these kind of, let's say, not the remarks all unpleasant or in mosques, they usually go quickly out of the window. and i would be very surprised if a clinton and joe biden didn't have a good conversation. the 3 of, let's say, i'm pleasant recta rape, and if they wouldn't try to find common ground, like, for example, extending the new start treaty. and that could be the basis of perhaps, you know, a reset. but for reset, as the saying goes. 'd it needs 2 to tango, all the americans are left to give something,
but the russians are going to have to give something at a concessions. and you know, that would be nice if something like that happened a professional, or as i have no doubt in my mind that the russians have long been writing for to have it all out. but i have grave doubts that the biden administration is people of that, especially if you are blocking action before and how can you post based on it of democracies on washington to reach your commitment to america is that while democracy and human rights are one time and whole region and dictator ad if you were a journalist and deal bit him. on the other hand, we know that all politicians, especially on their labor, leaving at rates, but that cyril might well insolvent, and it may save their vote if it is quite possible to try to attempt to have a reset with dictators and the world autocrats and the world be the cold boot to know if he should ping off to press even with the most korean leader without accepting all of their policies, all the methods that is x.
in to the skillfulness of 2 promises and politics that you try to fit to really code to create the areas you can agree on and to decide the areas you define. and i think joe biden is probably intending to do that. just for the sake of american foreign policy, clearly as an american president, but also for the sake of having the most the greatest stability in the world. well, here he really intends to do that and that, you know, the democrats are nasty like this. and as, as a candidate or as the president will change the still not national conversation. i think he has to keep that the whole in mind when dealing with other country leaders . because i think if he were a national problems, but now going to be treated as moral inferiors that our great, but when you look at america, the best of politics right now, i think the tone has already changed when you see how biden really acts to what is
going on in the white house with this president, trump right now. he doesn't condemn him. you know, of course, criticism. but he doesn't sway opinion. he doesn't become unreasonable. it doesn't become image of government the other day without me. or maybe sometimes i know that some credit for the way he talks about it. so it's a very difficult situation right now for him. it is a very measured approach. but whatever you may think privately, i don't know, he has told how he comes across this measure. i would expect such a measure, at least rhetorically, to also find him to do express when he talks to foreign leaders. be it friends, albeit autocrats of the world. and i think that's a good basis for stopping a conversation. i'm not promising, and i don't know that that conversation always be successful, but it would be very surprised if a biden administration wouldn't at least try to. you also have to remember that it was the obama administration who tried to find
a reset this russia at the beginning. they had term india and it didn't succeed. we all know that, but i think that at least strike at the beginning. and i would say that biden will probably try to even hard up and hopefully also more successfully that you mentioned the summit of that democracy. is it? or what do you mean is the matter with the big dollars at the gathering? well, getting shared a cat and even lied to that body of being here. i mean, i got to see the putin book get it right. a concept that the chinese president will get it in. but i would assume, and i really don't know, it has been left fairly basic. it has been mentioned several times in this particular and his election platform. but it hasn't been filled with much concrete substance that is going to be done. i'm sure the next few months, but i would imagine that all nato members, that all e.u. members, and perhaps, you know, the countries in between, you know, peter,
who have france, press a certain western something safe. but i'm not, let's say a member of the west attempt, such as india, for example, i can see india be invited. however, this is just speculation. i've no inside information. i won't bite into thinking about such a, it's going to be there and asking you about is and which you and i live, you know, that policy logic because as you, i'm sure, you know, maybe u.s. allies, most allies, i'm not democracies, be tricky. be it saudi arabia can't. poland are hungry. speaking about the e.u. members. i mean that's it. media look like a good idea. i'll set out tractor not invest some of your allies while conspicuously ostracizing. the advice is that really such a wise creditor? no idea. no, i don't, i'm not, i'm not here. i'm not a defender by and so employers are not a spokesperson from us enough. i'm saying what he has intended to do and his policy or his idea probably behind it is that he wants to create great crew here
and in the west on pro-democratic camp. and as i said, of the beginning of a conversation as being betty freight relations under trumpets,, nato members and busy e.u., members, if you really deteriorate a lot so i can see by them wanting to give it a new push to make that coherence. bring it about again, a greater stability in transatlantic relations in these sort of friendly relationships. whether that's will be successful, whether the even bill be a substantive summit or whether it will be just small, a symbolic summit. and i have no idea. i assume they want to make it a substantive summit, but do i know you used the words, bradley for the 2nd time and it being at again, it's not a word out of their reality or at all this year or international relations. here are 2 dozen others we can use, the traps comes close up. but what does a term like from might that nation?
well, exactly, because actually, you know, when it comes to, let's say, some of the nato members, 30, the united states and very few, i'm not like minded at all. sure. that night and evening, alexandra, he's one of the most last or geopolitical layer in north africa. and i have no idea whether live will be invited now, but my point is, or rather might rest here is trying to do you envisage the united states dealing with psychs deprancol partners lights right here it was. human rights record is beyond the pale, but who has big leagues that washington really needs. and that ultimately, and that's both, they're out what the demo, christie and human rights record is all about. if you can are raspberries bally's, you know, all supposedly our lives. what's, what should your ballingall, their 1000000 arts, you wouldn't know. i wouldn't talk about it in terms of principle. so it has nothing to do with the others of democracy when you have difficulties was turkey.
but the relationship the server? no, it's not actually not. allies used but like a friendly like minded in the way certain that the relationship with turkey, if very difficult and apparently was very disappointed at the trunk, wasn't reelected. this will make things hot, awful, bitin, of course. but as you rightly say, is a very important, politically, strategically very important country, or it's a nato member. and the e.u. countries also have the difficult issues. turkey is a close neighbor, also the have to get on with it. the same applies to the united states. that, of course, personally i would hope that biden will be successful in talking to al the gun and also trying to clamp down or to, to tone down, make him tone down and to human rights policies. it's recently tauriel policies that will be successful. i wonder, i wonder, you know,
it will be very difficult and it's a moment. i don't know what the bike minister we know about has a last, i mean, you know the answer to be questions makes very good questions be disposed, but we are out of time. i just get you going. well, that's a promise that thank you very much for being here. that no, thank you. was a pleasure and thank you for watching to see you again next week on worlds apart.
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