1
00:00:09,63 --> 00:00:11,98
Thanks so much for coming in it is

2
00:00:11,99 --> 00:00:17,16
a delight to be together. So
I thought we'd start with

3
00:00:18,00 --> 00:00:25,00
a little bit from the book Can we hear
from you I can do that. So I'm going to

4
00:00:25,01 --> 00:00:31,59
read it the first. Six
paragraphs from the prologue of

5
00:00:31,95 --> 00:00:34,76
my book at seven

6
00:00:34,77 --> 00:00:41,09
o seven am the last hour which is the end
of the assembly line outside it is still

7
00:00:41,10 --> 00:00:45,43
dark fifteen degrees with thirty
three inches of snow nearly

8
00:00:45,44 --> 00:00:48,96
a December record piled up in drifting as

9
00:00:48,97 --> 00:00:54,27
a stinging wind sweeps across the acres
of parking lots inside the Janesville

10
00:00:54,28 --> 00:00:59,85
assembly plant the lights are blazing in
the crowd as thick workers who are about

11
00:00:59,86 --> 00:01:06,06
to walk out of the plant into uncertain
futures stand alongside pensioned retirees

12
00:01:06,46 --> 00:01:12,88
who've walked back in their chest tight
with incredulity and nostalgia all these

13
00:01:12,89 --> 00:01:14,62
G.M.'s have followed the taco as

14
00:01:14,63 --> 00:01:21,22
a snake's down the line they are cheering
hugging weeping the final taco is

15
00:01:21,23 --> 00:01:22,58
a Beauty is

16
00:01:22,59 --> 00:01:29,31
a black fully loaded with. Aluminum
wheels and nine speaker bows audio

17
00:01:29,32 --> 00:01:30,42
system and

18
00:01:30,43 --> 00:01:35,67
a sticker price of fifty seven seven hundred
forty five dollars if it were going to

19
00:01:35,68 --> 00:01:40,50
be for sale in this economy in which
almost no one anymore wants to buy

20
00:01:40,54 --> 00:01:42,88
a fancy General Motors S.U.V.

21
00:01:44,06 --> 00:01:48,98
Five men including one in a Santa hat
stand in front of the shiny black S.U.V.

22
00:01:48,99 --> 00:01:49,39
Holding

23
00:01:49,40 --> 00:01:56,36
a wide banner it's white spaces crammed
with workers signatures. Last vehicle off

24
00:01:56,37 --> 00:02:01,39
the Janesville assembly line the banner
says with the date December twenty third

25
00:02:01,40 --> 00:02:07,59
two thousand and eight it is destined for
the County Historical Society television

26
00:02:07,60 --> 00:02:13,04
crews Miss far away as the Netherlands and
Japan have come to fill this moment when

27
00:02:13,05 --> 00:02:18,59
the oldest plant of the nation's largest
automaker turns out its last so the

28
00:02:18,60 --> 00:02:24,02
closing of the Semele plant two days before
Christmas is well recorded this is the

29
00:02:24,03 --> 00:02:30,99
story of what happens next so that's how
my book begins when therefore So Amy I was

30
00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:34,02
struck by reading Janesville
and how it is such

31
00:02:34,03 --> 00:02:40,59
a book about the economy about the recession
but it's so it's beyond the numbers

32
00:02:40,60 --> 00:02:45,15
and it's about the people and you really
bring out the reporting through those

33
00:02:45,16 --> 00:02:51,70
people stories how did you decide
to write this book well. I was

34
00:02:52,36 --> 00:02:57,31
after my name in fellowship when I was lucky
enough to been chosen by Bob to spend

35
00:02:57,32 --> 00:03:00,65
a year at Harvard I came
back to the post to write

36
00:03:00,66 --> 00:03:07,61
a very broad social policy beat and as
the Great Recession was beginning. I

37
00:03:07,62 --> 00:03:08,22
could get away with

38
00:03:08,23 --> 00:03:12,78
a lot in this job I could do all kinds
of things I started to write just

39
00:03:12,79 --> 00:03:17,37
a few stories about what I didn't even know
enough at the time to know were called

40
00:03:17,59 --> 00:03:21,85
recession effects in other words what
difference it makes on the ground that the

41
00:03:21,86 --> 00:03:25,24
economy was really bad. So I did

42
00:03:25,25 --> 00:03:30,13
a story for instance out of southwest
Florida about people who are falling out of

43
00:03:30,14 --> 00:03:34,11
the middle class onto welfare I just
hung out in a welfare office for

44
00:03:34,12 --> 00:03:39,39
a few days and found these people who have
been small business people or you know

45
00:03:39,40 --> 00:03:44,35
had perfectly well ordered lives who are
suddenly standing in line to apply for

46
00:03:44,36 --> 00:03:49,92
public benefits and were just absolutely
shell shocked I did a story had clumpy

47
00:03:49,93 --> 00:03:54,00
a South Carolina South Carolina at the
time had the nation's second highest

48
00:03:54,01 --> 00:03:59,00
unemployment rate about the strains on the
nonprofit parts of the social safety net

49
00:03:59,04 --> 00:04:03,94
places like food pantries that were just
slammed with more clients and they never

50
00:04:03,95 --> 00:04:09,16
had some of whom used to be donors and
again these people were just shell shocked

51
00:04:09,99 --> 00:04:14,38
and I thought something really profound
is changing in this country during this

52
00:04:14,39 --> 00:04:21,27
period of the recession. And I started
looking at what kinds of journalism I was

53
00:04:21,28 --> 00:04:22,40
seeing and

54
00:04:22,41 --> 00:04:27,49
a lot of it was from the macro view it was
about the political fights over whether

55
00:04:27,50 --> 00:04:32,00
then president pretty new President Obama's
stimulus plan was right or wrong with

56
00:04:32,01 --> 00:04:35,89
the government should or should not
be rescuing banks and not a myth be

57
00:04:35,90 --> 00:04:41,58
a manufacturer is but I didn't see much
writing about what losing work really did

58
00:04:41,59 --> 00:04:44,26
to individual people and to the texture of

59
00:04:44,27 --> 00:04:48,64
a perfectly ordinary place. And I
just became obsessed with finding

60
00:04:48,65 --> 00:04:53,43
a way to tell the story it's incredible
how did you choose Janesville you didn't

61
00:04:53,82 --> 00:04:54,10
have

62
00:04:54,11 --> 00:04:58,68
a connection to Janesville at the time but
it turned out to be like you said the

63
00:04:58,69 --> 00:05:05,41
microcosm. So I had never been to
Janesville I didn't know anyone in

64
00:05:05,42 --> 00:05:08,39
Janesville I think I've
been in Wisconsin once on

65
00:05:08,40 --> 00:05:10,99
a story in my entire career so this is not

66
00:05:11,00 --> 00:05:15,13
a familiar place but I had heard about
Janesville when I was searching for settings

67
00:05:15,14 --> 00:05:19,11
for a few of the stories I was doing for
the post somebody told me that there was

68
00:05:19,12 --> 00:05:25,57
a small southern Wisconsin town that had
just lost this huge old auto plant.

69
00:05:27,16 --> 00:05:31,36
I didn't go out there at the time because
the plant in just closed and lot of the

70
00:05:31,37 --> 00:05:34,27
people who worked at General
Motors itself as opposed to

71
00:05:34,37 --> 00:05:39,89
a lot of other people in the area who lost
jobs we're still getting union benefits

72
00:05:39,90 --> 00:05:44,28
something called sub pay. So the pain
hadn't really sunk in yet it took

73
00:05:44,29 --> 00:05:47,73
a while for that it took a while for
that to happen but when I began

74
00:05:47,74 --> 00:05:51,67
a few years later to indulge
this obsession I was finding

75
00:05:51,68 --> 00:05:58,03
a way to tell one community story it kind
of lingered in my mind and. You know

76
00:05:58,07 --> 00:06:01,87
usually when I'm even picking
places to go for a few days for

77
00:06:01,88 --> 00:06:04,84
a story for my newspaper I really do

78
00:06:04,85 --> 00:06:09,31
a lot of comparing trash and I make char
some very compulsive about all this in

79
00:06:09,32 --> 00:06:15,40
this case Janesville just kept like. Saying
to me like Come here I know not that

80
00:06:15,41 --> 00:06:20,61
anyone there knew me but you know in my
mind. So I started really thinking hard

81
00:06:20,62 --> 00:06:24,64
about what was so appealing about it
first of all I knew that I wanted

82
00:06:24,65 --> 00:06:30,29
a place that had never before been part of
the Rust Belt so Flint Michigan or some

83
00:06:30,30 --> 00:06:34,10
of you are probably familiar with the losses
of the auto industry there was an old

84
00:06:34,11 --> 00:06:34,94
story and I wanted

85
00:06:34,95 --> 00:06:41,05
a place where bad economic times was brand
new and that was true of Janesville its

86
00:06:41,36 --> 00:06:47,08
assembly plant had started out making
tractors just after World War One and started

87
00:06:47,09 --> 00:06:52,49
turning out Chevrolets Valentine's Day of
one nine hundred twenty three. So for all

88
00:06:52,50 --> 00:06:57,55
these decades and several generations
of workers often families had multiple

89
00:06:57,56 --> 00:07:01,63
generations of workers have been through
the plant it just kept going until it

90
00:07:01,64 --> 00:07:04,67
stopped I also want a place that had lost

91
00:07:04,71 --> 00:07:09,73
a lot of jobs between two thousand and two
thousand and nine the county for change

92
00:07:09,74 --> 00:07:13,05
was the county seat lost
about nine thousand jobs

93
00:07:13,06 --> 00:07:14,75
a month three thousand of them were G.M.

94
00:07:14,76 --> 00:07:17,73
Or ZZ there were another few
thousand people who worked at

95
00:07:17,74 --> 00:07:22,79
a lot of supplier companies that had grown
up over the years because this big old

96
00:07:22,80 --> 00:07:26,89
auto plant was there and then there were
these ripple effects I mean bowling alleys

97
00:07:26,90 --> 00:07:31,35
closed because none of people had in daycare
and daycare centers closed I mean it

98
00:07:31,36 --> 00:07:37,65
just really rippled through the community
so that was good I also as I started

99
00:07:37,66 --> 00:07:38,10
reading up

100
00:07:38,11 --> 00:07:43,19
a little bit about Jane so before ever
visiting realized that it fit pretty nicely

101
00:07:43,20 --> 00:07:48,16
into the sweep of U.S. History. Barack
Obama when he was still the U.S.

102
00:07:48,17 --> 00:07:50,73
Senator. Had given

103
00:07:50,74 --> 00:07:55,36
a big economic speech right inside the tains
the assembly plant in February of two

104
00:07:55,37 --> 00:07:57,74
thousand and eight and I found

105
00:07:57,75 --> 00:08:03,47
a youtube video of that speech in which
Obama says the promise of James was the

106
00:08:03,48 --> 00:08:09,32
promise of America and I thought who
that's good and that was how many months

107
00:08:09,33 --> 00:08:13,77
before that well that's how it goes say
he also said in speech that. Basically if

108
00:08:13,78 --> 00:08:19,32
you do what I the senator running for
president I'm recommending he said This plant

109
00:08:19,33 --> 00:08:24,05
is going to be here for another hundred
years that was February close to December

110
00:08:24,22 --> 00:08:31,08
Wow Wow You know what it was as I was reading
it all these characters in your book

111
00:08:31,09 --> 00:08:35,03
and it's you know when writing nonfiction
reporting sometimes you start to think of

112
00:08:35,04 --> 00:08:39,79
people as characters because they are so
well drawn and you know the social worker

113
00:08:39,80 --> 00:08:44,34
and the you know the families the parents
who said you know you'll be OK if you

114
00:08:44,35 --> 00:08:46,16
work for G.M. I always work for G.M.

115
00:08:46,17 --> 00:08:52,60
That's what we do. There they're telling
you their stories but it's several years

116
00:08:52,61 --> 00:08:58,52
later how did you how what were the challenges
in in listening to people's stories

117
00:08:58,53 --> 00:09:03,83
and their memories and then turning that
into what really happened in your book

118
00:09:04,98 --> 00:09:09,37
well apart from doing by far the biggest
piece of work I've ever done in my life

119
00:09:09,38 --> 00:09:11,77
which was a challenge in itself there were

120
00:09:11,78 --> 00:09:18,60
a couple of really big challenges one
was I first set foot in Janesville late

121
00:09:18,61 --> 00:09:22,19
July of two thousand and eleven
so you heard when I read

122
00:09:22,20 --> 00:09:26,26
a couple paragraphs of the prologue the
plant closed just before Christmas of two

123
00:09:26,27 --> 00:09:33,18
thousand and eight so one of the challenges
was going back and reconstructing

124
00:09:33,19 --> 00:09:38,95
what had happened and trying to make it
feel is vivid in the writing as things that

125
00:09:38,96 --> 00:09:44,02
I would then watch with my own eyes
for the next few years. So that took

126
00:09:44,03 --> 00:09:50,97
a little doing. But another issue
was. Even when people were trying to

127
00:09:50,98 --> 00:09:55,66
be as helpful as they could. People's
memories are often pretty bad.

128
00:09:58,37 --> 00:10:03,36
You know everything and I wanted this
book to sound novelistic I wanted to feel

129
00:10:03,37 --> 00:10:03,56
like

130
00:10:03,57 --> 00:10:10,05
a story that kind of pulls you through and
has emotion to it. But every single thing

131
00:10:10,06 --> 00:10:16,27
in it is reported so I couldn't be just
like guessing filling in gaps so let me

132
00:10:16,28 --> 00:10:21,58
give you one example of. How I dealt
with these little memory issues.

133
00:10:23,11 --> 00:10:28,70
So there's one family there are three main
families of workers in the story one of

134
00:10:28,71 --> 00:10:35,44
them is the wall Pat family and there's
an older generation Matt Pat who had just

135
00:10:35,45 --> 00:10:42,40
retired from General Motors before
his son gets laid off. This

136
00:10:42,41 --> 00:10:46,91
is pretty hard on them both because
Marvel cat who'd been kind of

137
00:10:46,92 --> 00:10:53,01
a big guy in town he was the plant employee
assistance head for twenty five years

138
00:10:53,02 --> 00:10:57,69
so he knew everybody's dark secrets
inside as planned and he also was kind of

139
00:10:57,70 --> 00:11:02,67
a novice politician on the county
level at the time this is happening.

140
00:11:04,76 --> 00:11:07,03
And he feels pretty guilty
because he's getting a pension

141
00:11:07,04 --> 00:11:13,95
a son's getting laid off so one of the
things I tried to do was make sure that one

142
00:11:13,96 --> 00:11:18,52
of the main people and you're right it's
funny to say characters when these are

143
00:11:18,53 --> 00:11:24,58
people who I know who are to this day living
their lives who Jason Wisconsin. Make

144
00:11:24,59 --> 00:11:29,42
sure that various ones of these characters
are in the different scenes that I'm

145
00:11:29,43 --> 00:11:30,99
writing about is who to feel like it was

146
00:11:31,00 --> 00:11:37,96
a continuous story so there was
one. Kind of touchstone I keep

147
00:11:37,97 --> 00:11:42,76
coming back to in the book which is labor
fest which was the Labor Day celebration

148
00:11:42,77 --> 00:11:49,76
in Janesville and there's one year in
two thousand and ten when Labor fest

149
00:11:49,77 --> 00:11:50,66
becomes kind of

150
00:11:50,67 --> 00:11:56,56
a big political deal. At the United Auto
Workers locals ninety five That's the

151
00:11:56,57 --> 00:11:59,80
local union hall. There was

152
00:12:00,10 --> 00:12:04,58
a regional rally called jobs
now kind of building up for

153
00:12:04,59 --> 00:12:10,51
a national rally in Washington not that
long after and I figured that Maher was the

154
00:12:10,52 --> 00:12:14,27
most likely of my characters to have
been there which is good because I need

155
00:12:14,28 --> 00:12:19,82
a person whose story is running the
story to be at this moment in time.

156
00:12:21,09 --> 00:12:28,04
Well Marfan member that that fall
he had heard of the Democratic

157
00:12:28,05 --> 00:12:32,31
candidate for governor speaking
at the union hall but there was

158
00:12:32,32 --> 00:12:36,35
a little problem because the Democratic
candidate for governor spoke at the union

159
00:12:36,36 --> 00:12:40,40
hall that fall twice and Marv
could not for the life of

160
00:12:40,41 --> 00:12:45,42
a member with time he'd been there. So
I started looking around I was reading

161
00:12:45,43 --> 00:12:50,32
newspaper clippings didn't tell me everybody
who was on the roster that day but

162
00:12:50,33 --> 00:12:52,37
then I found this gold it was

163
00:12:52,38 --> 00:12:58,76
a Facebook video. And I could see who
spoke in addition to this candidate

164
00:12:59,50 --> 00:13:05,68
so I could go back to March and say Did
you hear these people or not is like yeah

165
00:13:05,69 --> 00:13:11,81
those are the people I heard bingo I can
put them in the scene this is what. How

166
00:13:11,82 --> 00:13:17,25
you do real reporting but you also tell it
in such an engaging way to which I think

167
00:13:17,83 --> 00:13:23,01
it's great to be able to combine those and
that's where the story works some of the

168
00:13:23,02 --> 00:13:29,69
way you told the story that was so
evocative to me was. These. These

169
00:13:30,02 --> 00:13:35,59
terrible things that happened but you
describe them in these. In these kind of

170
00:13:36,22 --> 00:13:39,68
really sad but beautiful ways
and I'm going to ask you about

171
00:13:39,69 --> 00:13:45,51
a couple of them one is the Parker closet
What was the Parker closet so one of the

172
00:13:45,52 --> 00:13:50,75
ideas I had for who should be the people
in the book was an addition to these main

173
00:13:50,76 --> 00:13:53,69
families I wanted the story
to feel kind of like

174
00:13:53,70 --> 00:13:59,95
a kaleidoscope so that you were seeing
these experiences play out over

175
00:14:00,01 --> 00:14:05,05
a period of twenty five years the story
from the vantage points of different people

176
00:14:05,06 --> 00:14:11,32
in town who in different ways were trying
to help figure out what to do so one of

177
00:14:11,33 --> 00:14:13,64
these characters is

178
00:14:13,65 --> 00:14:20,26
a social studies teacher named Barry
whaler. And she worked at the still

179
00:14:20,27 --> 00:14:24,92
does one of the two high schools in town
I say the two high schools in town are

180
00:14:24,93 --> 00:14:31,68
named Parker and Craig Parker is
named for Parker Pen Company which

181
00:14:31,69 --> 00:14:37,21
comes from James Wisconsin that was its
home. Craig It was named for the man who

182
00:14:37,22 --> 00:14:41,37
persuaded the founding head
of General Motors to buy

183
00:14:41,38 --> 00:14:47,76
a factory in town so the industrial identities
of you know this community are like

184
00:14:47,77 --> 00:14:50,91
a wired into the identity of
these high schools OK that's

185
00:14:50,92 --> 00:14:55,73
a technician back to Terry whalers. She's

186
00:14:55,74 --> 00:15:00,28
a pretty compassionate woman and knows her
students pretty well and she started to

187
00:15:00,29 --> 00:15:06,41
see that some of her kids who had been from
middle class families didn't seem like

188
00:15:06,42 --> 00:15:10,10
they were doing very well they're falling
asleep in class that maybe were hungry

189
00:15:10,11 --> 00:15:16,53
maybe they didn't have school supplies
so on her own she goes to the principal.

190
00:15:17,45 --> 00:15:19,22
And asked whether she can have

191
00:15:19,26 --> 00:15:25,95
a. Storage room. Storage closet to
create something to cause the park

192
00:15:25,96 --> 00:15:32,95
a closet for which she starts
collecting donations of used jeans and.

193
00:15:34,26 --> 00:15:40,88
Canned food and pencils and
paper. Use prom dresses so

194
00:15:40,89 --> 00:15:45,79
girls could afford to have dresses to
go to the dance in the spring and other

195
00:15:45,80 --> 00:15:51,98
people start helping her with this and.
In terms of the work of families I wanted

196
00:15:51,99 --> 00:15:55,92
to be sure that there was one family
through which I could just show the

197
00:15:55,93 --> 00:16:02,58
experiences of kids coming of age and so
in that family there are these twin girls

198
00:16:02,59 --> 00:16:07,19
who I met when they were high school
seniors and one of them told me that their

199
00:16:07,20 --> 00:16:11,07
whaler one day introduces her to the park

200
00:16:11,08 --> 00:16:17,79
a closet and she was just blown
away that this locked room had this

201
00:16:17,80 --> 00:16:23,77
stuff inside. And she was blown away partly
because she is to only understood the

202
00:16:23,78 --> 00:16:28,77
generosity behind it but also is because
it was the first time she really

203
00:16:28,78 --> 00:16:32,89
understood that if this room existed other
families had to be going through hard

204
00:16:32,90 --> 00:16:37,41
times she was known she was not alone
because even though there were all these

205
00:16:37,42 --> 00:16:42,39
families and which parent two parents had
lost their jobs this was not something

206
00:16:42,40 --> 00:16:46,64
the kids were talking about this pretty
private inside the family right that's so

207
00:16:46,65 --> 00:16:51,62
visual in your book that that closet what
was in it and how that was going to to

208
00:16:51,63 --> 00:16:57,61
not only help the kids but let them know
that they were known. So living about an

209
00:16:57,62 --> 00:17:03,58
hour away from Janesville and Madison I I
run into people who talk about that time

210
00:17:03,59 --> 00:17:08,76
and I'm I'm always kind of wondering you
know if this had been another city would

211
00:17:08,77 --> 00:17:15,68
so many people have stayed. So
many people stayed but so many

212
00:17:15,69 --> 00:17:19,45
people stayed but went somewhere
else so who are the the G.M.

213
00:17:19,46 --> 00:17:23,65
Gypsies. Well you know there's

214
00:17:23,66 --> 00:17:29,37
a sort of mythology among economists or
other thinker people that if jobs I'm going

215
00:17:29,38 --> 00:17:34,38
to get into these are second but this is
going to lead the path right there. If.

216
00:17:35,40 --> 00:17:39,19
Jobs disappear somewhere then people
should simply uproot and go to where their

217
00:17:39,20 --> 00:17:44,92
jobs and one of many things I learned in
Janesville is that that's just not always

218
00:17:44,93 --> 00:17:50,33
the case that people have real attachments
to places and home right you know

219
00:17:50,34 --> 00:17:50,99
particularly in

220
00:17:51,00 --> 00:17:55,75
a community where this kind of work has
existed for so long and their extended

221
00:17:55,76 --> 00:17:58,69
families I mean the way
that you got hired at G.M.

222
00:17:58,70 --> 00:18:00,79
Most of the time was you got

223
00:18:00,80 --> 00:18:04,36
a chit from somebody who already
was in the plant so it be

224
00:18:04,59 --> 00:18:07,51
a parent handing down
to a son or a chit is

225
00:18:07,55 --> 00:18:10,80
a reference basically said I want you
guys it's like there's an opening you can

226
00:18:10,81 --> 00:18:16,61
apply for it. But it was sort of clubby I
mean you had to know somebody who worked

227
00:18:16,62 --> 00:18:19,27
there to have a chance
to apply Not always but

228
00:18:19,28 --> 00:18:24,34
a lot of the time of the plants existence.
So there was also that there were big

229
00:18:24,72 --> 00:18:30,20
families in town so to get to
the gypsies. You know there was

230
00:18:30,21 --> 00:18:35,05
a big question for everybody of who lost
their work about like what do I do next

231
00:18:35,69 --> 00:18:42,15
and. How do I put food on the table
so if you had been at General Motors

232
00:18:42,16 --> 00:18:46,44
itself. Most of these workers had pretty
good seniority they've been there

233
00:18:46,45 --> 00:18:51,27
a lot of years and because of that they
had transferred rights to other General

234
00:18:51,28 --> 00:18:56,58
Motors plants that were still going around
the country. These were faraway places.

235
00:18:57,93 --> 00:19:04,68
Texas Kansas City places here
Michigan Ohio. Fort Wayne

236
00:19:04,69 --> 00:19:07,52
Indiana. And

237
00:19:07,56 --> 00:19:14,07
a lot of people would take these jobs but
not move their families. They would.

238
00:19:15,37 --> 00:19:19,65
Come home depending on how far
away they were on weekends or once

239
00:19:19,66 --> 00:19:22,49
a month and these people
call themselves G.M.

240
00:19:22,50 --> 00:19:29,33
Gypsies and one of the characters and
another the families I write about is

241
00:19:29,34 --> 00:19:33,22
a guy they met while Pat who. Knows

242
00:19:33,23 --> 00:19:37,37
a lot of people who are doing this commute
and it's just sworn that he is not going

243
00:19:37,38 --> 00:19:41,36
to do this he's Marvell
Pat son and his from

244
00:19:41,37 --> 00:19:46,42
a very close knit family he doesn't want
to leave but he and his wife who's working

245
00:19:46,43 --> 00:19:51,64
a part time minimum wage job get pretty
worried about their house payments falling

246
00:19:51,65 --> 00:19:57,57
behind and they've got three daughters
and he starts commuting to Indiana three

247
00:19:57,58 --> 00:20:03,50
hundred miles away starts in March of
two thousand and ten. Leaving on Monday

248
00:20:03,51 --> 00:20:10,36
mornings working through the week
staying in an apartment. With another

249
00:20:10,37 --> 00:20:11,63
James old guy who's also

250
00:20:11,64 --> 00:20:18,37
a gypsy and driving home late late on
Friday nights sleeping in his bed for two

251
00:20:18,38 --> 00:20:18,79
nights in

252
00:20:18,80 --> 00:20:23,13
a little bit of the first night. And then
does it all over again he's been doing is

253
00:20:23,14 --> 00:20:27,82
now for. Since two thousand and ten for
eight years and he's got seven more years

254
00:20:27,83 --> 00:20:34,02
to go until he's eligible for the kind of.
Pension retirement that is Dad's been

255
00:20:34,03 --> 00:20:37,48
getting earlier so that's just what
worked out for so many of them and their

256
00:20:37,49 --> 00:20:43,50
families that they would move the
families would stay. Yeah I know

257
00:20:43,74 --> 00:20:48,98
a few people who ultimately had their family
join them where they were working they

258
00:20:48,99 --> 00:20:55,35
tended to be families with really getting
kids in the kids are kind of. I guess you

259
00:20:55,36 --> 00:20:57,23
could plainly say unsettled by having

260
00:20:57,24 --> 00:21:03,94
a parent far right during the week and
people ultimately moved I know one family

261
00:21:03,95 --> 00:21:07,22
that's living here in Michigan and they
go back to James all the time is where

262
00:21:07,23 --> 00:21:12,17
their vacation time was their home is their
home and that is you know your home is

263
00:21:12,18 --> 00:21:17,78
your home and. That was so poignant too
that they kind of were holding on to that

264
00:21:17,79 --> 00:21:21,15
and trying to make it work the
way they could it seems like in

265
00:21:21,16 --> 00:21:26,18
a case like this so many of us would
say well what about retraining so many

266
00:21:26,19 --> 00:21:30,21
economists would say people
OK This job is gone G.M.

267
00:21:30,22 --> 00:21:34,08
Is not there we need to
retrain everyone at G.M.

268
00:21:34,09 --> 00:21:40,69
To do something else. That does
that work. Well I was really

269
00:21:40,70 --> 00:21:43,83
interested in the question of retraining
I mean it seemed to me that if I was

270
00:21:43,84 --> 00:21:48,82
looking at what happens when work goes
away this sort of sequel question was not

271
00:21:48,86 --> 00:21:54,13
a very distant sequel was what do we as

272
00:21:54,14 --> 00:22:00,92
a society encourage people to do to try
to get work back and. You know it didn't

273
00:22:00,93 --> 00:22:02,07
take me more than

274
00:22:02,08 --> 00:22:09,06
a heartbeat to understand that retraining
is something that is an unusual economic

275
00:22:09,07 --> 00:22:11,76
policy that both Democrats and Republicans

276
00:22:11,77 --> 00:22:16,34
a spouse notion of going back to school
and reinventing yourself and the whole

277
00:22:16,35 --> 00:22:23,05
notion of reinvention is really American
idea right so so I was interested in

278
00:22:23,06 --> 00:22:27,13
looking at well how well was it working
in Israel and another of the reasons I

279
00:22:27,14 --> 00:22:30,24
picked a full was that I
needed a place that had

280
00:22:30,28 --> 00:22:36,04
a college that was doing this kind of
vocational training and Wisconsin has

281
00:22:36,05 --> 00:22:42,00
a techno college system that does this kind
of work exclusively and Janesville had

282
00:22:42,05 --> 00:22:46,82
one of these colleges called Blackhawk
technical college so I started hanging out

283
00:22:46,83 --> 00:22:46,91
at

284
00:22:47,14 --> 00:22:53,99
a Blackhawk are some of the first work that
I did on this book. Talking to. Factory

285
00:22:54,00 --> 00:22:59,37
workers or going back to school instructors
and the tiny number of counsellors and

286
00:22:59,60 --> 00:23:02,56
people who are running this college or
point their hair out trying to figure out

287
00:23:02,74 --> 00:23:09,28
what to do with this inundation of factory
workers are coming at them and. I also.

288
00:23:11,12 --> 00:23:14,37
Kind of exposed my inner nerd
as a journalist and work with

289
00:23:14,38 --> 00:23:16,46
a couple of labor economists on

290
00:23:16,47 --> 00:23:22,89
a statistical analysis of what happened
to people who had been laid off. From

291
00:23:22,90 --> 00:23:29,05
something or other. In this part of
southern Wisconsin. Around the time of the

292
00:23:29,06 --> 00:23:35,81
great recession. Who either later did
or did not go back to school tech.

293
00:23:36,84 --> 00:23:39,11
And what was their employment situation

294
00:23:39,39 --> 00:23:44,00
a few years later. And the results are
really sobering I mean what we found was

295
00:23:44,01 --> 00:23:50,93
that. People who had gone back to
school by two thousand and eleven

296
00:23:50,94 --> 00:23:54,77
two thousand and twelve were less likely
be working than people who had not gone

297
00:23:54,78 --> 00:24:01,14
back to school isn't that so counter-intuitive
it is counter-intuitive. They found

298
00:24:01,15 --> 00:24:07,68
that if they were working there before the
recession people who lost jobs who later

299
00:24:07,69 --> 00:24:11,15
went back to school in the ones who didn't
before hand they've both been making

300
00:24:11,16 --> 00:24:12,72
about the same average earnings

301
00:24:12,84 --> 00:24:17,64
a marriage wages afterwards the
people who come back to school had

302
00:24:17,65 --> 00:24:18,58
a bigger pay drop by

303
00:24:18,59 --> 00:24:25,44
a lot so incredible That's
that's. Discouraging right well

304
00:24:25,48 --> 00:24:31,52
it's not the kind of common wisdom about
job retraining and you know the numbers

305
00:24:31,56 --> 00:24:36,33
didn't show us because I was working with
these couple of Congress. Who were better

306
00:24:36,34 --> 00:24:42,50
during computer runs and I heard. The
numbers didn't tell us the why but I did

307
00:24:42,51 --> 00:24:48,43
a lot of interviewing. And just reading and
trying to figure out what might account

308
00:24:48,44 --> 00:24:52,83
for those and I mean the first thing to say
is I don't think this is an indictment

309
00:24:52,84 --> 00:24:59,08
of job retraining all over the place but I
think it does say that if you're trying

310
00:24:59,09 --> 00:25:05,10
to train people in a context in
which jobs are coming back that's

311
00:25:05,11 --> 00:25:10,78
a big reason why these results were so
grim. I think it's also possible. That

312
00:25:11,76 --> 00:25:14,42
people who succeeded at
the retraining which was

313
00:25:14,50 --> 00:25:18,16
a minority of people I mean two thirds of
people back to school didn't finish their

314
00:25:18,17 --> 00:25:23,22
programs and that's pretty typical of two
year colleges all around the country so

315
00:25:23,23 --> 00:25:26,00
it wasn't like this factory workers were
worse than everybody else or try to be

316
00:25:26,01 --> 00:25:31,44
students. But I think it's possible
that a people who succeeded in starting

317
00:25:31,45 --> 00:25:36,39
a new line of work they were starting at
the bottom of bottom rung so if we had

318
00:25:36,40 --> 00:25:42,04
been able to look over the next bunch of
years to see did they eventually do better

319
00:25:42,04 --> 00:25:48,31
. It's hard to know but that's so interesting
to us ability and that again is is

320
00:25:48,32 --> 00:25:52,67
taking those numbers and pulling out the
real story and talking about people which

321
00:25:52,68 --> 00:25:57,20
is so helpful in business stories and
economic stories to be able to do that yeah

322
00:25:57,21 --> 00:26:00,75
and let me just say one of the other
characters in the story want to talk about

323
00:26:00,76 --> 00:26:07,26
this kind of kaleidoscope like you. Is the
guy who was the head of the county job

324
00:26:07,27 --> 00:26:12,64
center it was kind of ground zero for where
you showed up if you suddenly lost this

325
00:26:12,65 --> 00:26:16,87
work that you thought was going to
last your lifetime. And he gave me

326
00:26:16,88 --> 00:26:23,44
a lot of important insights. When he and
I started talking about the fact that

327
00:26:23,45 --> 00:26:29,39
people went back to school. And didn't
always fare well out of it it became clear

328
00:26:29,40 --> 00:26:32,09
to me that he felt really
guilty you know that there was

329
00:26:32,10 --> 00:26:37,26
a lot of federal money that was pouring
into town to help pay for people to go back

330
00:26:37,27 --> 00:26:39,61
to school and he had thought this was

331
00:26:39,62 --> 00:26:44,85
a good opportunity I mean these factory
jobs that paid well for working class jobs

332
00:26:44,86 --> 00:26:49,26
G.M. And paid twenty dollars
an hour at the end if you had

333
00:26:49,30 --> 00:26:53,87
a couple working those wages some
of the support very good life. And

334
00:26:53,88 --> 00:26:57,69
a lot of people were kind of locked into
this work because of the pay who hated the

335
00:26:57,70 --> 00:27:02,16
assembly line so he thought
well this is really

336
00:27:02,17 --> 00:27:08,82
a chance for people to rethink what
they might really want to do. So he

337
00:27:08,83 --> 00:27:12,05
starting another chance yeah
a new chance I mean this is

338
00:27:12,06 --> 00:27:18,44
a very American idea right an idea of
reinvention and. When he started to realize

339
00:27:18,45 --> 00:27:22,70
that people weren't getting jobs remember
him Tommy he felt like people been

340
00:27:22,71 --> 00:27:22,82
through

341
00:27:22,83 --> 00:27:27,43
a double whammy that you know they lost
their job they started out on this new

342
00:27:27,44 --> 00:27:32,67
course and it didn't always work out for
them and I think one thing that was very

343
00:27:32,68 --> 00:27:38,17
hard for him or anybody else to anticipated
was if you think about this great

344
00:27:38,18 --> 00:27:44,87
recession. Compared to the last several
recessions the United States Jobs came back

345
00:27:44,92 --> 00:27:49,51
much more slowly out of this recession so
the expectation you go back to school for

346
00:27:49,52 --> 00:27:51,76
a year or two and jobs
were coming back was

347
00:27:51,77 --> 00:27:57,07
a pretty good bet was not what happened
so speaking of the government and the

348
00:27:57,11 --> 00:28:00,20
federal government but also I'd
like to talk about Paul Ryan

349
00:28:00,21 --> 00:28:05,89
a little bit so what was Paul Ryan's
involvement in the community during this time

350
00:28:06,35 --> 00:28:09,65
well when I was talking about why I picked
changeable I left out the Paul Ryan

351
00:28:09,66 --> 00:28:16,53
thing. So this is his hometown and when
I was thinking about what make make

352
00:28:16,54 --> 00:28:22,28
for an interesting place to write
about. It seemed that. You've got this

353
00:28:22,29 --> 00:28:27,09
conservative politician who has been the
congressman since he was twenty eight

354
00:28:27,10 --> 00:28:33,96
years old. And you've got this Democratic
leaning union town that he's from

355
00:28:34,41 --> 00:28:38,80
so I figured if I put something interesting
there let me just admit. You know

356
00:28:38,81 --> 00:28:44,75
a little interesting tension there well
this after the prologue my story begins

357
00:28:44,76 --> 00:28:46,87
with Paul Ryan getting

358
00:28:46,88 --> 00:28:52,27
a call on his cell phone from the then
head of General Motors giving him

359
00:28:52,28 --> 00:28:54,12
a heads up that the next
morning is going to be

360
00:28:54,13 --> 00:29:00,58
a public announcement that the
plant is going to close. And Paul

361
00:29:00,59 --> 00:29:03,45
Ryan you know kind of prize
themselves on having

362
00:29:03,46 --> 00:29:08,89
a pretty genial calm demeanor and he
starts screaming at the guy on the phone I

363
00:29:08,90 --> 00:29:13,18
mean I interviewed Ryan and he's
recounted this saying pick on

364
00:29:13,19 --> 00:29:19,73
a bigger place is not going to get
hurt so much. So he you know he is

365
00:29:19,74 --> 00:29:25,92
not an advocate of federal earmarks you
know special money to help you know

366
00:29:26,41 --> 00:29:29,64
Congress members communities. He's not

367
00:29:29,65 --> 00:29:36,44
a big fan of. Entitlement spending. Public

368
00:29:36,45 --> 00:29:41,22
programs to help people when they're hurting.
He's more private sector kind of guy

369
00:29:41,23 --> 00:29:41,86
Maura

370
00:29:42,41 --> 00:29:48,52
a guy who believes that the answer to
poverty is having communities kind of turn

371
00:29:48,53 --> 00:29:53,13
out their generosity but Paul Ryan instantly
understood what was meant for his

372
00:29:53,14 --> 00:29:58,30
hometown I mean he had grown up with kids
whose parents worked at the plant some of

373
00:29:58,31 --> 00:30:04,82
his high school buddies had worked at
the plant and he just he got it and

374
00:30:05,22 --> 00:30:06,75
he was part of

375
00:30:06,79 --> 00:30:13,63
a very serious but at the time bipartisan
effort. To keep the plant open Wisconsin

376
00:30:13,64 --> 00:30:13,76
had

377
00:30:13,77 --> 00:30:20,84
a Democratic governor at the time named
Doyle and Governor Doyle and. The

378
00:30:20,85 --> 00:30:26,89
city of Janesville and the county and the
entire congressional delegation from

379
00:30:27,42 --> 00:30:34,16
Wisconsin Democrat and Republican worked
together to try to persuade General

380
00:30:34,17 --> 00:30:40,36
Motors to give the Janesville
plant. A new small car that G.M.

381
00:30:40,37 --> 00:30:45,04
Was going to start manufacturing in the
United States. And they said look at we've

382
00:30:45,05 --> 00:30:45,24
got

383
00:30:45,25 --> 00:30:52,24
a good strong workforce our
quality is good our. Per

384
00:30:52,28 --> 00:30:58,44
car per vehicle production cost is good
within the company like give us this car to

385
00:30:58,45 --> 00:31:05,03
me and. Together Janesville in this and
the state offered what was the biggest

386
00:31:05,04 --> 00:31:10,14
economic incentive package Wisconsin ever
offered any company to try to lure them

387
00:31:10,65 --> 00:31:17,39
and it didn't work you know I didn't
work. Ryan was part of it Paul

388
00:31:17,40 --> 00:31:20,79
Ryan had good relations with. The G.M.

389
00:31:20,80 --> 00:31:26,17
Leadership they turned it down they turned
it down because Michigan offered more

390
00:31:26,18 --> 00:31:32,64
money wow OK yeah and I can see how I can
see how they were still hoping because

391
00:31:32,65 --> 00:31:37,40
didn't the plant produce something
before. A long time ago so there is

392
00:31:37,41 --> 00:31:41,15
a kind of always that well it can come
back we could we could start making

393
00:31:41,16 --> 00:31:46,71
something else exam cleared so you know
one of the things that I started hearing

394
00:31:46,72 --> 00:31:51,47
when I first began to visit Janesville was
that I was good that people were going

395
00:31:51,48 --> 00:31:52,51
to be saying it's just

396
00:31:52,52 --> 00:31:55,50
a matter of time to the plague
comes back and I shut up two and

397
00:31:55,51 --> 00:31:56,55
a half years after the plant

398
00:31:56,56 --> 00:32:03,24
a closed and I heard all of this
to not. I mean I'll tell you

399
00:32:03,28 --> 00:32:09,57
another Marsh pat story.
I went to his SO met

400
00:32:10,18 --> 00:32:17,03
his. One of his granddaughters high school
graduations. That were Pat's daughter

401
00:32:18,01 --> 00:32:22,92
and Marv who's kind of this larger Live
character comes riding up on his Harley.

402
00:32:24,91 --> 00:32:25,44
Gives me

403
00:32:25,45 --> 00:32:28,91
a hug wish I may not ever be in town where
this is like an artist personality gives

404
00:32:28,92 --> 00:32:28,100
me

405
00:32:29,01 --> 00:32:35,70
a hug and says you just wait to come back
this was June of two thousand and thirteen

406
00:32:35,70 --> 00:32:40,95
. You're still believing in still believing
in that but the reason I think this

407
00:32:40,96 --> 00:32:44,94
denial persisted not everybody was holding
out hope that long but I think the

408
00:32:44,95 --> 00:32:49,44
reason this denial persisted was that as
you say this planted always got another

409
00:32:49,45 --> 00:32:51,71
product you know stop making

410
00:32:51,72 --> 00:32:55,91
a car and start making the truck stop make
the truck stop making this you know it

411
00:32:55,92 --> 00:33:01,64
just that was the life cycle of this plant
for just generations it reminds me of

412
00:33:01,65 --> 00:33:07,30
that. During that time they started having
ambassadors of optimism which when I

413
00:33:07,31 --> 00:33:11,07
read that I thought oh that's so sad because
you know it's going to happen and it's

414
00:33:11,08 --> 00:33:16,81
so hopeful but yet to hear those
basters of optimism well.

415
00:33:18,59 --> 00:33:23,96
As there were groups that were trying to
help people who were thrown out of their

416
00:33:23,97 --> 00:33:29,94
work there are also people who are trying
to revive the local economy so this new

417
00:33:29,95 --> 00:33:35,93
coalition form and called Rock County
five point rock out is the county first

418
00:33:35,94 --> 00:33:39,71
Janesville is the hub and it was

419
00:33:39,72 --> 00:33:42,95
a local banker. And

420
00:33:42,99 --> 00:33:48,69
a very wealthy woman from below it the next
town south of Janesville who became the

421
00:33:48,70 --> 00:33:54,94
leaders of this coalition and the banker
woman named Mary Wilmer she was married

422
00:33:54,95 --> 00:33:57,17
but that was her name
and since But that was

423
00:33:57,18 --> 00:34:04,16
a name at the time. Began trying
to recruit new come new businesses

424
00:34:04,17 --> 00:34:11,13
to town and persuade one
there to stay. And Mary

425
00:34:11,14 --> 00:34:18,03
had these caps printed. Up you know basters
of optimism because she was of the

426
00:34:18,04 --> 00:34:21,24
view that. You know if you put on

427
00:34:21,38 --> 00:34:28,34
a good face that that would be attractive
and trying to woo other employers.

428
00:34:29,59 --> 00:34:32,13
Now you know Mary has a
point of view I mean that's

429
00:34:32,14 --> 00:34:37,50
a decent economic development strategy but
you can imagine how this and Bassett or

430
00:34:37,51 --> 00:34:42,97
is of optimism lingo was sitting with
people who were out of work girl where you

431
00:34:42,98 --> 00:34:47,64
know working part time and you know working
but working making half of what they

432
00:34:47,65 --> 00:34:49,48
had made of General
Motors' it struck me as

433
00:34:49,49 --> 00:34:55,71
a little insensitive Yes So one
of the things I talk about is.

434
00:34:57,36 --> 00:35:03,21
You know when I began to called to James
Phillips that there were people who were

435
00:35:03,22 --> 00:35:09,58
directly hurt by this job loss and
people who weren't and you know they

436
00:35:09,59 --> 00:35:14,77
co-existed Janesville had always been you
know stopped like It's A Wonderful Life

437
00:35:14,81 --> 00:35:16,52
from salt like Frank
Capra but it always been

438
00:35:16,53 --> 00:35:20,89
a pretty cohesive community you know people
who are rich or poor like in the town

439
00:35:20,90 --> 00:35:27,11
but I'm pretty coherent place. But
there really started to be more of

440
00:35:27,12 --> 00:35:32,25
a socio economic schism
and. Along with that

441
00:35:32,26 --> 00:35:39,06
a political schism and I think that you
know I didn't see this as I was like they

442
00:35:39,07 --> 00:35:43,95
were at first but I started thinking that
this is one more way that James also have

443
00:35:43,96 --> 00:35:48,32
a metaphor for what's been going on in
the country last period of years when.

444
00:35:51,30 --> 00:35:57,90
You know just the divide is widening So you
came into Janesville as an outsider and

445
00:35:57,91 --> 00:35:58,59
you had

446
00:35:58,69 --> 00:36:03,52
a complete outsider and you got to know
everybody not everybody you got to know

447
00:36:03,53 --> 00:36:08,100
about on some people. And you came out
of it really as the town biographer in

448
00:36:09,01 --> 00:36:12,86
a lot of ways I mean you really I mean
you put so much into it and you your

449
00:36:12,87 --> 00:36:16,90
research and talking to the real people
and understand their stories and getting

450
00:36:16,91 --> 00:36:22,62
their stories right. How did they
react to it as the book came out.

451
00:36:23,83 --> 00:36:30,35
Yeah so I was pretty nervous about that
yeah. And let me just say before I take how

452
00:36:30,36 --> 00:36:37,20
people reacted that I always thought
of Jay's for the community as one of

453
00:36:37,33 --> 00:36:42,43
the stories characters. So it's about
people but it's also about the texture of

454
00:36:42,44 --> 00:36:47,74
their place. So it's and I didn't think
of myself as the local biographer.

455
00:36:49,92 --> 00:36:53,00
But I did think of the town as something
that I wanted to under and that sort of

456
00:36:53,01 --> 00:36:58,84
culture of the town and its history or
something I wanted to. Portray as well as

457
00:36:58,85 --> 00:37:04,76
the experience of these individual people
within it. So I went back to Janesville

458
00:37:05,12 --> 00:37:07,37
a couple weeks after the
book came out to give

459
00:37:07,38 --> 00:37:14,64
a talk and are you nervous about. You

460
00:37:14,65 --> 00:37:20,41
know I mean we've both been reporters long
enough to understand that you know you

461
00:37:20,42 --> 00:37:26,78
can try to portray something as clearly
as you understand it but you don't see it

462
00:37:26,79 --> 00:37:32,81
the same way that people you're writing
about may experience and. So I had copies

463
00:37:32,82 --> 00:37:37,97
of books sent to most of the people in the
story because I wanted them to see what

464
00:37:37,98 --> 00:37:43,62
happened before it came out just before
it came out publicly and I was quite

465
00:37:43,63 --> 00:37:49,63
apprehensive when I went back and spoke
at the Public Library. And it was I mean

466
00:37:49,86 --> 00:37:55,43
this is going to sound like really corny
but it was great yeah. Was it because they

467
00:37:55,47 --> 00:37:55,68
had

468
00:37:55,69 --> 00:38:01,73
a heads up was it because I mean you you're
you portrayed it the way you saw it and

469
00:38:01,74 --> 00:38:07,20
they said yes this is the way it
is yeah yeah for the most part and

470
00:38:07,21 --> 00:38:12,72
a lot of people who were in the story
came out that afternoon and it was

471
00:38:12,73 --> 00:38:16,54
a really cold rainy afternoon at the end
the April another something you know you

472
00:38:16,61 --> 00:38:20,49
bring out your story and there in your
audience yeah your characters are right

473
00:38:20,50 --> 00:38:24,69
there yeah and I was saying to somebody
earlier I felt like Dorothy back in August

474
00:38:24,70 --> 00:38:30,93
Yeah. Like oh there is Terry Whalen and her
mom who I've heard about but it was it

475
00:38:30,94 --> 00:38:37,16
was kind of sweet. One of the women
in one of these three main families

476
00:38:38,18 --> 00:38:44,28
asked for the next meal I was signing books
I just want to be part of that. And I

477
00:38:44,29 --> 00:38:44,97
signed books for

478
00:38:44,98 --> 00:38:51,62
a really long time mother and. So I think
I mean again this is going to sound kind

479
00:38:51,63 --> 00:38:58,04
of like corny but I think people felt kind
of I mean not everything is pretty and

480
00:38:58,05 --> 00:39:04,98
the story was I wasn't and I was
concerned that people might be upset

481
00:39:04,99 --> 00:39:08,61
that I had portrayed some things that were
pretty harsh that happened during these

482
00:39:08,62 --> 00:39:13,26
years I think people felt like I had somehow
dignified what they had gone through.

483
00:39:14,83 --> 00:39:16,30
Well you approach it with

484
00:39:16,39 --> 00:39:23,17
a lot of genuine curiosity and and respect
so that came through I tried Yeah

485
00:39:24,12 --> 00:39:25,63
how is this

486
00:39:25,64 --> 00:39:32,50
a story with an ending and how did
you decide when to end the book yeah

487
00:39:32,51 --> 00:39:32,70
that's

488
00:39:32,71 --> 00:39:40,38
a good question. So another the things
that I learned during these years of you

489
00:39:40,39 --> 00:39:46,03
know people in Janesville is that I think
it takes. A really long time in many

490
00:39:46,04 --> 00:39:51,36
cases for it to become begin to become clear
whether commuters going to recover or

491
00:39:51,37 --> 00:39:57,72
dying. And you know I didn't know this
because I know anything about Janesville

492
00:39:57,73 --> 00:40:00,22
beforehand but it turns out this is

493
00:40:00,23 --> 00:40:03,39
a pretty resilient place and you were
talking about the economic development

494
00:40:03,40 --> 00:40:09,00
efforts and I mean this place has been
really trying. But it's still not clear

495
00:40:09,01 --> 00:40:14,84
whether it's going to become a Phoenix
or really a collapse. There's

496
00:40:15,26 --> 00:40:19,65
a lot of residual optimism in town I
mean that was true all along people are

497
00:40:19,66 --> 00:40:25,00
looking for little signs like oh you see
we're coming back. There was less anger in

498
00:40:25,01 --> 00:40:31,78
town then I might have anticipated it wasn't
like people were screaming at NAFTA or

499
00:40:31,79 --> 00:40:36,88
screaming at General Motors they were just
more like how to put dinner on the table

500
00:40:40,08 --> 00:40:47,01
but in terms of when to end the story. I
end it with kind of the next generation

501
00:40:47,16 --> 00:40:53,78
rising. And it with. These
twin high school graduations

502
00:40:54,74 --> 00:40:58,67
happened a couple weekends
apart to felt that that was

503
00:40:58,68 --> 00:41:04,51
a moment when you could sort of see you who
were going to be the workers shifting.

504
00:41:06,06 --> 00:41:12,48
The story still not over there been big
things happening lately in Janesville.

505
00:41:13,73 --> 00:41:19,77
One of the political tensions that runs
of the story is about whether or not to

506
00:41:19,78 --> 00:41:26,14
keep hoping that General Motors will reopen
the plant someday. That went on is that

507
00:41:26,15 --> 00:41:29,96
possible well that went on
for years because up until

508
00:41:30,85 --> 00:41:37,01
a couple years ago. This plant was in
this limbo status called Stand by.

509
00:41:39,38 --> 00:41:44,11
First it was one of. A couple of General
Motors plants that were in the standby

510
00:41:44,12 --> 00:41:49,44
status and then for several years it was
the only one and what that meant was that

511
00:41:49,76 --> 00:41:54,52
nothing was going on inside this plant but
that it was eligible to reopen if so the

512
00:41:54,53 --> 00:42:00,88
market demand for. The Motors products
warranted it so that was one of the things I

513
00:42:00,89 --> 00:42:04,49
think that fostered all this denial that
went on for longer than you might have

514
00:42:05,04 --> 00:42:11,96
thought was reasonable. So there were
people you know union people and

515
00:42:12,59 --> 00:42:18,69
Democrats who are aligned with them who are
like plugging for this plant just to be

516
00:42:19,02 --> 00:42:24,13
hanging out there so that General Motors
might reopen it. The business leadership

517
00:42:24,35 --> 00:42:31,34
really wanted the plant just sold so there
could be redevelopment. So just the end

518
00:42:31,35 --> 00:42:37,82
of this past year General Motors did
sell the plant the slim buy set limbo

519
00:42:37,83 --> 00:42:44,27
status ended. A couple years ago so it
was officially closed so General Motors

520
00:42:44,28 --> 00:42:50,65
could then try to sell
it. It's been bought by

521
00:42:50,69 --> 00:42:55,47
a company out of St Louis that specializes
in distressed industrial properties.

522
00:42:56,58 --> 00:43:02,83
There at the moment taking down the
plant physically facing a plant over

523
00:43:02,84 --> 00:43:08,49
a period of many months. I haven't seen
that but I'm going to Janesville first time

524
00:43:08,50 --> 00:43:09,78
in many months and

525
00:43:09,79 --> 00:43:14,68
a couple days and I wanted to out of I'm
going to write about it more but I just

526
00:43:14,69 --> 00:43:18,95
feel like after having I mean I find that
I can't imagine this town without this

527
00:43:18,96 --> 00:43:22,93
plant I'm not even from their price you
know but it's so central to what they want

528
00:43:22,94 --> 00:43:29,37
to be about N E I want to see it
happening yeah yeah so. Do people

529
00:43:29,65 --> 00:43:35,59
still buy G.M. I was so afraid I was
thinking you know you always hear by G.M.

530
00:43:35,77 --> 00:43:42,14
Or that are the people who live in Janesville
still buying Tim Yeah so. Let me ask

531
00:43:42,15 --> 00:43:46,70
you something related to that not only is
the question So when I first arrived in

532
00:43:46,71 --> 00:43:51,18
Janesville we I knew what the unemployment
numbers were there were horrible I mean

533
00:43:51,63 --> 00:43:57,33
unemployment had been over thirteen percent
in two thousand and nine. And it was

534
00:43:57,34 --> 00:44:04,10
like eleven twelve percent when I
showed up. And I was mystified because

535
00:44:04,14 --> 00:44:11,03
everything looked OK like the surface looked
good and I remember asking people when

536
00:44:11,04 --> 00:44:16,33
I began doing interviews like where do I
see this paint like it's got to be here

537
00:44:16,34 --> 00:44:19,00
but as I'm not seeing it doesn't look like

538
00:44:19,01 --> 00:44:23,23
a depressed place like the downtown is
kind of shabby but like lots of small town

539
00:44:23,24 --> 00:44:28,23
downtowns or shabby since you know malls
came into existence so that wasn't new and

540
00:44:28,24 --> 00:44:29,42
that wasn't a result of G.M.

541
00:44:29,43 --> 00:44:34,67
Closing so I was told two things I said
I was told look at the gardens because

542
00:44:34,68 --> 00:44:34,96
people

543
00:44:34,97 --> 00:44:38,24
a lot of people took pride in the gardens
and they're not planting interesting

544
00:44:38,25 --> 00:44:44,09
flowers as much and I was told kids used
to get really nice cars like high school

545
00:44:44,10 --> 00:44:48,03
kids and that's not happening anymore so
I was going to get around to the buying

546
00:44:48,04 --> 00:44:54,97
G.M. Thing. And. Most people had G.M.

547
00:44:55,31 --> 00:45:00,49
Vehicles but I don't think is
like as monolithically G.M.

548
00:45:00,53 --> 00:45:06,61
As used to be the case. I remember so
well I was doing this research I had

549
00:45:06,98 --> 00:45:11,08
a succession of very generous leaves from
the Washington Post for which I'm seeding

550
00:45:11,09 --> 00:45:17,01
the gray foam. And for several months of
that time I was based in Madison I had

551
00:45:17,02 --> 00:45:21,69
this unpaid gig at the University of
Constance's jibberish up poverty which as you

552
00:45:21,70 --> 00:45:25,78
know living in Madison is you know about
forty miles from Janesville So I just

553
00:45:25,79 --> 00:45:30,49
spent a lot was easy drive there so I didn't
drive my car up from Washington to be

554
00:45:30,50 --> 00:45:35,42
a Madison so I rented a car and it
was a Toyota and I remember asking

555
00:45:36,19 --> 00:45:40,08
a couple of the people who I was quote you
know I thought whose judgment I really

556
00:45:40,09 --> 00:45:42,18
trust and like is this going to be

557
00:45:42,19 --> 00:45:47,11
a problem. And they said no
not everybody drives G.M.

558
00:45:47,12 --> 00:45:51,42
Anymore so it's a small change
but a big change yeah spotted

559
00:45:51,43 --> 00:45:56,77
a big change in well we have another
part I'd like you to read at the

560
00:45:56,63 --> 00:46:03,47
OK OK. So I think I'm going to read the

561
00:46:03,48 --> 00:46:04,15
beginning of

562
00:46:04,16 --> 00:46:10,11
a chapter about. Pat's Friday night
drives home from Fort Wayne Indiana.

563
00:46:14,33 --> 00:46:20,16
And before I read I will tell you the answer
to questions I often get asked when I

564
00:46:20,17 --> 00:46:20,38
read

565
00:46:20,39 --> 00:46:29,84
a little bit about this. Chapter called
night drive Yes I was the backseat. Come

566
00:46:29,85 --> 00:46:31,41
on get the hell out of here

567
00:46:31,45 --> 00:46:36,07
a guy shouts as he burst out the door and
speed walks across the terror car the

568
00:46:36,08 --> 00:46:42,46
tiled lobby barely slowing to slide his ID
card to the punch clock Friday night at

569
00:46:42,47 --> 00:46:47,95
the Fort Wayne assembly plant the end of
the workweek the end of second shift and

570
00:46:47,96 --> 00:46:49,25
nine hour shift today with

571
00:46:49,26 --> 00:46:55,57
a lucky hours overtime so that's eleven
forty five pm is this guy is shouting one

572
00:46:55,58 --> 00:46:57,20
guy among eleven hundred G.M.

573
00:46:57,21 --> 00:47:02,70
Are going off the factory floor to start
their weekend amid this horde met while

574
00:47:02,71 --> 00:47:06,78
Pat which is the lobby at
eleven forty seven pm wearing

575
00:47:06,79 --> 00:47:12,67
a nick cap backpack slung over one shoulder
he is not running but he too is walking

576
00:47:12,68 --> 00:47:18,40
a very very fast a Friday night ritual
he reaches the chilly night air and

577
00:47:18,41 --> 00:47:19,57
a coworker wishes him

578
00:47:19,58 --> 00:47:24,84
a safe drive tonight he stops for an instant
at the ninety seven Saturn which he

579
00:47:24,85 --> 00:47:28,75
parks in the same part of the vast
lot every Friday in the middle of

580
00:47:28,76 --> 00:47:33,23
a row under street lamp so he won't have
to think about where his left is car when

581
00:47:33,24 --> 00:47:39,07
he returns on Monday he poses duffel from
the trunk and continues walking very very

582
00:47:39,08 --> 00:47:45,99
fast over to two thousand three hundred
grand prix already idling in the driver's

583
00:47:45,100 --> 00:47:51,62
seat is Christe Aldridge in the back seat
his coat scrunched up between him and the

584
00:47:51,63 --> 00:47:54,61
door is Paul Sheridan Jamesville G.M.

585
00:47:54,62 --> 00:48:00,83
Gypsies both. Chris pops the trunk for
Matt to toss his duffel inside the trunk

586
00:48:00,84 --> 00:48:06,10
shut before he gets in on the passenger
side that store is fairly close and Chris

587
00:48:06,11 --> 00:48:12,09
guns the engine and Moore's off two
hundred eighty miles to go four hours and

588
00:48:12,10 --> 00:48:13,70
thirty five minutes speeding just

589
00:48:13,71 --> 00:48:18,57
a little with the pretty sure they will
not get caught Matt pulls out his phone

590
00:48:18,61 --> 00:48:24,04
calls Darcy That's his wife and tell her
to tell her they are leaving same as he

591
00:48:24,05 --> 00:48:30,34
does every week when Chris guns the engines
eleven fifty four pm in Fort Wayne

592
00:48:30,93 --> 00:48:35,75
except that Matt is not the only one who
stays and Jane's all time so the dashboard

593
00:48:35,76 --> 00:48:41,60
clock on the Grand Prix says ten fifty four
Chris started working at Fort Wayne on

594
00:48:41,61 --> 00:48:46,77
August seventeenth two thousand and nine
seven months before Matt Chris will never

595
00:48:46,78 --> 00:48:51,95
forget that day his wife and kids along to
help the move so he doesn't like to say

596
00:48:51,96 --> 00:48:57,57
he has moved so he says that he stays in
Fort Wayne and how his family left on

597
00:48:57,58 --> 00:49:02,64
Monday morning when he went to plant four.
Which was during first shift so he's

598
00:49:02,65 --> 00:49:06,73
back in this new apartment by three
thirty that afternoon and he sat on

599
00:49:06,74 --> 00:49:10,13
a chair with cheap dine at set
they've just gotten staring at

600
00:49:10,14 --> 00:49:16,24
a wall alone his wife and kids are back in
Janesville one of the worst feelings of

601
00:49:16,25 --> 00:49:18,68
his life that was three and

602
00:49:18,69 --> 00:49:24,01
a half years ago the Grand Prix has forty
seven thousand miles on it now it has one

603
00:49:24,02 --> 00:49:29,46
hundred thirty four thousand four hundred
seven On this night they are not yet ten

604
00:49:29,47 --> 00:49:33,74
minutes from the plant about to turn on
to Route one fourteen when Matt says in

605
00:49:33,75 --> 00:49:39,00
this quiet way this is my three
year anniversary Chris doesn't miss

606
00:49:39,01 --> 00:49:44,83
a beat We are going to celebrate that
he's back that already had texted Darcy

607
00:49:44,84 --> 00:49:51,19
before going to work happy anniversary to
me three years and they reply came back

608
00:49:51,75 --> 00:49:56,34
has it been three years seems
a lot longer Darcy had added

609
00:49:56,35 --> 00:50:03,01
a sad faced emoticon. Thank
you talking with you I

610
00:50:03,42 --> 00:50:06,65
think you think Samy so much. To

611
00:50:06,66 --> 00:50:11,99
a to

612
00:50:12,00 --> 00:50:18,67
a. So we are so excited to have
some questions from the audience

613
00:50:18,68 --> 00:50:25,08
tonight. Be able to see you had we have
been able to see you all night. But there

614
00:50:25,09 --> 00:50:31,01
you are so we have some microphones
going around from place to place

615
00:50:31,30 --> 00:50:38,01
and. Where is the microphone could you bring
to the end if you have some questions

616
00:50:38,02 --> 00:50:44,91
we love to hear from you know
we have someone right there. So

617
00:50:45,49 --> 00:50:50,58
my questions about I mean
this is not a happy topic but

618
00:50:50,78 --> 00:50:53,06
a lot of times when big
plants close they leave

619
00:50:53,07 --> 00:50:56,52
a lot of toxic waste and then that causes

620
00:50:56,53 --> 00:51:01,44
a higher incidence of certain diseases
such as cancer and maybe it's

621
00:51:01,45 --> 00:51:08,25
a little too early to tell what. Other than
mental illness which you sort of hinted

622
00:51:08,26 --> 00:51:13,74
at or mention in your book one suicide
from somebody from the stress about other

623
00:51:13,75 --> 00:51:18,14
types of problems related
to that yeah that's

624
00:51:18,15 --> 00:51:24,56
a good question. So on the
environmental side. There's

625
00:51:25,47 --> 00:51:28,89
there's no like cancer clusters I
think that I know but there's quite

626
00:51:28,90 --> 00:51:35,87
a bit of abatement is the term
that's been going on. By the new

627
00:51:35,88 --> 00:51:38,69
owner of this huge piece
of property and this is

628
00:51:38,70 --> 00:51:44,07
a four point eight million square foot plant
and lot of land around it. So they're

629
00:51:44,08 --> 00:51:45,34
having to do a lot of they had to do

630
00:51:45,35 --> 00:51:51,59
a lot of cleanup before they could
begin the demolition in terms of.

631
00:51:52,94 --> 00:51:59,10
Other kinds of problems. You know losing
work is just really not good for you it's

632
00:51:59,11 --> 00:52:04,15
not good for marriages it's not good as
you suggested for mental health. I got to

633
00:52:04,16 --> 00:52:10,72
know woman in town who. Works in the
prosecutor's office on domestic violence

634
00:52:10,73 --> 00:52:10,88
there's

635
00:52:10,89 --> 00:52:17,19
a big upsurge in domestic violence in
town and. The suicide rates increase for

636
00:52:17,20 --> 00:52:24,18
awhile they've come back down again. You
know as part of the research for this book

637
00:52:24,19 --> 00:52:29,69
in addition to the study it was a
time about job retraining I also did

638
00:52:29,70 --> 00:52:35,43
a survey with some folks the universe was
constant just of this one county in two

639
00:52:35,44 --> 00:52:38,63
thousand and thirteen and we were looking
at sort of what people's economic

640
00:52:38,64 --> 00:52:44,38
experiences and attitudes were several
years after the plan to close and the

641
00:52:44,39 --> 00:52:50,67
recession had at least officially ended
and we asked some questions of you know

642
00:52:50,68 --> 00:52:55,27
anybody in the county and then we asked
specific questions of people who said that

643
00:52:55,64 --> 00:52:59,32
they are someone in their home had lost
jobs and that was about one third of the

644
00:52:59,33 --> 00:53:01,40
people who answered the survey says

645
00:53:01,41 --> 00:53:07,29
a lot of job loss and some of these questions
were about you know have you noticed

646
00:53:07,30 --> 00:53:12,54
any of these things happening to you in the
period after you lost work things like

647
00:53:12,89 --> 00:53:17,06
when you're losing sleep like three
quarters of people said yes to you find

648
00:53:17,07 --> 00:53:22,49
yourself avoiding social situations lots
of people said yes you face straining your

649
00:53:22,50 --> 00:53:26,91
family lost people said yes but the
question that really broke my heart asked

650
00:53:26,92 --> 00:53:33,03
people have you felt embarrassed or ashamed
to have lost work and over the happy

651
00:53:33,42 --> 00:53:38,81
over half the people said yes and I just
found that so powerful because if you

652
00:53:38,82 --> 00:53:44,11
think about it these were thousands
of jobs that disappeared at

653
00:53:44,12 --> 00:53:48,26
a time when the country was in you know the
worst economic shape it been since the

654
00:53:48,27 --> 00:53:52,12
Great Depression. So your neighbors

655
00:53:52,13 --> 00:53:55,63
a loser the same kind of work
but people take it personally.

656
00:54:01,20 --> 00:54:07,82
Over here. First thank you very much
for this powerful wonderful book

657
00:54:08,12 --> 00:54:13,20
our There are two parts of the book that
the came together in my mind late in the

658
00:54:13,21 --> 00:54:19,72
book he said that when people are were asked
about it two thirds of them will tell

659
00:54:19,73 --> 00:54:24,46
you that the economy has not recovered and
then you write an incredible sentence

660
00:54:25,06 --> 00:54:30,84
earlier you say they are just part
of a broad tumbling down hill as

661
00:54:30,85 --> 00:54:36,54
a result of which for many families in town
life is not with the aid expected. Now

662
00:54:36,54 --> 00:54:43,33
. Moving forward to today for
Ryan recommending self-help and

663
00:54:43,51 --> 00:54:49,54
no government aid How do few people feel
since you've last talked to them about

664
00:54:49,55 --> 00:54:56,10
what what society has done for them they've
gone back to work perhaps for twelve

665
00:54:56,11 --> 00:55:02,63
dollars an hour stead of twenty feet
first of all that figure that you quoted

666
00:55:02,64 --> 00:55:08,30
about most people think you know that
twenty thirteen the economy was still in

667
00:55:08,31 --> 00:55:13,75
a recession that was from the same survey
I was just mentioning and that's just

668
00:55:13,76 --> 00:55:19,70
really powerful evidence of the long tail
of these bad economic times and places

669
00:55:19,71 --> 00:55:25,33
start to get better they don't all get
better all it wants. So I'm going to give

670
00:55:25,34 --> 00:55:29,74
you that for starters statistical answer
which may not be that satisfying.

671
00:55:31,04 --> 00:55:36,44
Emotionally but the unemployment rate
in Janesville is really low now.

672
00:55:38,07 --> 00:55:41,13
It's like between three and four
percent I mean Wisconsin has

673
00:55:41,14 --> 00:55:45,50
a low unemployment rate and so does Janesville
So by that measure it looks like one

674
00:55:45,51 --> 00:55:51,28
of things great again but if you look at
the kinds of jobs that exist. Industry

675
00:55:51,29 --> 00:55:55,26
hasn't come back manufacturing hasn't
come back and as you just suggested wages

676
00:55:55,27 --> 00:56:02,13
aren't what they used to be. So that's
the kind of clinical numerical way

677
00:56:02,91 --> 00:56:09,88
of looking at this you know there's no one
answer to How are people feeling. But

678
00:56:09,92 --> 00:56:15,37
I think that some of these people have
gotten to know like you've got to go forward

679
00:56:15,38 --> 00:56:18,63
right you're going to forty you're not
going to go for it and people have gotten

680
00:56:18,64 --> 00:56:24,63
used to you know in the case of the Wildcat
family with Matt living away five days

681
00:56:24,64 --> 00:56:28,93
a week. This is what their family
life consists of and he's got

682
00:56:28,94 --> 00:56:35,71
a strong marriage and they found ways
to accommodate this. In the case

683
00:56:35,72 --> 00:56:39,62
of. One of the other families
I write about which was

684
00:56:39,63 --> 00:56:46,48
a big union family. The guy who was
approaching middle age guy when the

685
00:56:46,57 --> 00:56:53,11
these jobs went away retrain successfully
he had been head of the Union.

686
00:56:54,14 --> 00:57:00,61
Local at the biggest supplier to General
Motors he. Was the local union leader in

687
00:57:00,62 --> 00:57:06,16
a big seat making factory. And he retrained
to do human resources work on the

688
00:57:06,17 --> 00:57:08,27
management side that was

689
00:57:08,28 --> 00:57:13,74
a psychologically very hard transition for
him but he's proud of himself for having

690
00:57:14,79 --> 00:57:21,36
been adaptable you know so I think
different people find ways of. Not feeling

691
00:57:21,37 --> 00:57:25,94
terrible forever and keeping their lives
going you know are they making as much

692
00:57:25,95 --> 00:57:32,35
money as they used to know is life as
predictable as it used to be no but you know

693
00:57:33,19 --> 00:57:37,57
people go on to we have one
of us in about thirty.

694
00:57:40,28 --> 00:57:41,70
Held I have a bit of

695
00:57:41,71 --> 00:57:46,21
a connection to Janesville I worked there
in the ninety's and I read your book as

696
00:57:46,22 --> 00:57:50,65
soon as it came out thank you you know I
happen to be the number one reviewer of

697
00:57:50,66 --> 00:57:55,91
your book on Amazon my review is right at
the top and I will vent and where I live

698
00:57:55,92 --> 00:57:59,50
in the summer now right down the road about
an hour or so I came up as soon as I

699
00:57:59,51 --> 00:58:03,86
heard you were speaking Thank you you know
the power of your book is when you said

700
00:58:03,87 --> 00:58:08,47
there is no one apps are the answers are
is fair Eden is the people that you

701
00:58:08,48 --> 00:58:10,67
interview some did well

702
00:58:10,74 --> 00:58:15,29
a lot to it just depended the retraining
thing didn't work out the way that we

703
00:58:15,30 --> 00:58:22,06
thought we were sold back in the ninety's
this creative destruction theory that we

704
00:58:22,07 --> 00:58:25,95
can put thirty or forty million people out
of work and they're all just going to

705
00:58:25,96 --> 00:58:30,62
retrain and be bikers and financial people
and that didn't work you know maybe

706
00:58:30,63 --> 00:58:35,16
fifteen percent of the people made it the
rest of Sky who dropped out of the LIBOR

707
00:58:35,17 --> 00:58:38,70
for so the the way that
you explained to there is

708
00:58:38,71 --> 00:58:44,24
a different answer for every person that
the people are very plucky engine still is

709
00:58:44,25 --> 00:58:48,35
they are in Michigan they don't give up
they kept fighting but they're never going

710
00:58:48,36 --> 00:58:50,51
to get back the way they work it was

711
00:58:50,52 --> 00:58:55,32
a very nuanced story and that's the power
and also very objective you don't bring

712
00:58:55,33 --> 00:59:00,59
politics into it you don't have any hidden
agendas the book is exactly what the

713
00:59:00,60 --> 00:59:05,39
journalist who introduced you talked
about excellent unbiased and thorough

714
00:59:05,40 --> 00:59:09,64
reporting to tell the whole
story you just made my night to

715
00:59:09,77 --> 00:59:15,71
me.

716
00:59:16,88 --> 00:59:21,81
A few years before the rest of the
country Sawyer tools sixty we got

717
00:59:21,82 --> 00:59:25,67
a big surprise there were a lot
more people that like Bernie and

718
00:59:25,68 --> 00:59:31,57
a lot more white killer or like Trump
there was radicalization in the air the

719
00:59:31,58 --> 00:59:36,76
people were very calm only outside of getting
you know trying to make the best but

720
00:59:36,77 --> 00:59:39,68
only inside the you something. Let it.

721
00:59:44,38 --> 00:59:48,87
Grow. Let me say

722
00:59:48,88 --> 00:59:53,52
a couple very different things first
of all it's great that you have

723
00:59:53,53 --> 00:59:57,64
a history in Janesville you know I've
spoken a lot of places in the last year and

724
00:59:57,65 --> 01:00:04,40
a half. And they've been very few places
where somebody hasn't said I'm from days

725
01:00:04,41 --> 01:00:10,59
ago where I've been from Janesville. When
I spoke at the main independent bookstore

726
01:00:10,60 --> 01:00:11,23
in D.C.

727
01:00:11,35 --> 01:00:15,40
If you accept my book came out where you've
spoken as well your book of come out.

728
01:00:16,48 --> 01:00:17,67
There was like there's Janesville

729
01:00:17,68 --> 01:00:24,59
a Washington delegation I mean I don't
know if. I was just earlier this month.

730
01:00:25,69 --> 01:00:27,84
In London and gave

731
01:00:27,85 --> 01:00:32,02
a few talks and at one of them somebody
came up to me and said I had lunch in

732
01:00:32,03 --> 01:00:36,24
Janesville. He was studying
go decades ago at the air is

733
01:00:36,25 --> 01:00:41,41
a Chicago is driving to Madison and
that's where he had lunch so I have

734
01:00:41,42 --> 01:00:47,25
a sense of this Janesville diaspora I mean
onto your serious point though. You know

735
01:00:47,26 --> 01:00:54,15
I was really interested in the question
of who does well and who doesn't do

736
01:00:54,16 --> 01:00:59,82
well who can figure their way forward
after this kind of economic trauma to

737
01:00:59,83 --> 01:01:06,79
themselves and their community and who
doesn't and you know I tried to populate

738
01:01:06,80 --> 01:01:13,44
the story with people who kind of
show the spectrum of that. And you

739
01:01:13,45 --> 01:01:14,20
know I'm not

740
01:01:14,21 --> 01:01:19,68
a psychologist I don't know what it is
inside people that makes them able to

741
01:01:20,32 --> 01:01:27,15
recover better or worse. But it was something
I was very interested in as I was you

742
01:01:27,16 --> 01:01:28,14
know interviewing people over

743
01:01:28,15 --> 01:01:35,02
a long period of time. You know who
is resilient to is fragile and what

744
01:01:35,03 --> 01:01:39,35
does it look like to be resilient or
fragile this kind of context I appreciate

745
01:01:39,36 --> 01:01:44,86
a question. Do we have time for. The year.

746
01:01:46,33 --> 01:01:50,66
I think so much for coming to Traverse
City somewhat related to the retraining

747
01:01:50,67 --> 01:01:51,46
question and there was

748
01:01:51,47 --> 01:01:58,38
a study that came out just this week about
the challenges of community colleges and

749
01:01:58,67 --> 01:02:00,59
quite frankly that there isn't

750
01:02:00,60 --> 01:02:05,64
a lot of value even to associates
degrees that are completed and the and

751
01:02:05,86 --> 01:02:09,78
questionable value around certificate
programs My background is in higher education

752
01:02:09,79 --> 01:02:13,85
so that's really hard for me to hear but
one of my questions is especially since

753
01:02:13,86 --> 01:02:18,45
you ended with the two commencements are
the young people making any different

754
01:02:18,46 --> 01:02:24,03
kinds of choices about post high school
in comparison to what their parents did.

755
01:02:25,28 --> 01:02:29,75
Yeah so two points first of
all. You know there's also

756
01:02:29,76 --> 01:02:33,15
a body of academic literature
that's been around for

757
01:02:33,16 --> 01:02:36,59
a few years that says there are actually
a lot of jobs which you don't need

758
01:02:36,60 --> 01:02:39,51
a four year degree but it too you do it
can be quite helpful in the earnings

759
01:02:39,52 --> 01:02:41,50
potential is this high is with

760
01:02:41,51 --> 01:02:45,96
a four year degree but those kinds of
jobs are around so I think that's kind of

761
01:02:45,97 --> 01:02:52,97
a mix mixed message about the value of
community so it's not all bleak. In terms

762
01:02:52,98 --> 01:02:59,79
of young people. You know I haven't been
hanging out in town anough we simply

763
01:03:00,38 --> 01:03:03,07
don't have a sense of it but I know

764
01:03:03,08 --> 01:03:08,60
a couple things. People in the school
system tell me that So James has always had

765
01:03:08,61 --> 01:03:14,08
pretty good school system and even though
there were these readily available good

766
01:03:14,09 --> 01:03:19,27
factory jobs both Parker pen
when it was in town for

767
01:03:19,28 --> 01:03:21,88
a lot of girls went and
these really well paid G.M.

768
01:03:21,89 --> 01:03:28,64
Jobs. The school system always encouraged
higher education and I think that

769
01:03:28,68 --> 01:03:31,79
in recent years the
school system is getting

770
01:03:31,80 --> 01:03:37,65
a little more focused on well which would
be doing more with occasional education

771
01:03:38,13 --> 01:03:42,39
she would be a little more
career focused. So that's

772
01:03:42,40 --> 01:03:49,08
a big change in the educational
culture in town. Another thing

773
01:03:49,71 --> 01:03:50,04
which is

774
01:03:50,05 --> 01:03:54,19
a little different than what you asked by
I think it's germane is you know this is

775
01:03:54,20 --> 01:03:56,53
a town that's had such

776
01:03:56,57 --> 01:04:02,65
a long strong union identity and more and
more of the jobs that are available not

777
01:04:02,66 --> 01:04:07,85
only pay yes but pay less but aren't
union jobs so I think there's

778
01:04:07,86 --> 01:04:09,51
a real question I'm

779
01:04:09,52 --> 01:04:15,91
a member talking. Not that long ago with
the current. Head of the United Auto

780
01:04:15,92 --> 01:04:20,48
Workers Local they're they're all retirees
who are running the local because

781
01:04:20,49 --> 01:04:24,38
they're no more active auto workers who
got released time from their jobs to do

782
01:04:24,39 --> 01:04:29,18
this union work so there are these retiree's
who are volunteering to run the union

783
01:04:29,51 --> 01:04:36,12
local and this guy was saying to me
you know he wishes that the next

784
01:04:36,13 --> 01:04:41,90
generation coming along would have access
to these union jobs in your culture and I

785
01:04:41,91 --> 01:04:46,53
was thinking I didn't challenge most thinking
I wonder what over time that's going

786
01:04:46,54 --> 01:04:52,23
to imply for the political texture of this
community. Because you know the U.A.W.

787
01:04:52,24 --> 01:04:56,30
People were tended to be Democrats and I
don't know what's going to happen with

788
01:04:56,31 --> 01:05:00,98
angels identity ideologically as it over

789
01:05:00,99 --> 01:05:04,73
a period of time ceased to have so many
people with the memories of these union

790
01:05:04,74 --> 01:05:11,61
jobs. Just. Right here.

791
01:05:13,65 --> 01:05:18,75
Well I'm from Beloit so I'm not we're not
Janesville was the rich people's town

792
01:05:18,99 --> 01:05:25,45
that's right but I do and they in Beloit
they did not down did not knock down the

793
01:05:25,49 --> 01:05:32,05
manufacturing process and. Very hard to
bring what I would call light industry and

794
01:05:32,06 --> 01:05:36,55
right are they doing anything like that
in Janesville and where would they do it

795
01:05:36,81 --> 01:05:42,36
Yes So first of all when I was talking
about these two women who co-founded this

796
01:05:42,37 --> 01:05:46,02
economic development coalition Diane
Hendricks has mentioned this wealthy woman

797
01:05:46,03 --> 01:05:50,83
from below eight that's who I was referring
to obviously she's been kind of I mean

798
01:05:50,84 --> 01:05:54,77
she is really wealthy I mean she and her
husband found is something called A.B.C.

799
01:05:54,78 --> 01:05:57,95
Supply. And her husband died

800
01:05:58,28 --> 01:06:05,13
a few years ago and she's been writing
it and just enormous wealth and

801
01:06:05,14 --> 01:06:07,95
she's been kind of propping up the local
economy of Janesville and trying to

802
01:06:07,96 --> 01:06:11,07
rebuild it after. Blights factor as

803
01:06:11,08 --> 01:06:15,94
a danger Beloit after boys factories
closed before James was did and the other

804
01:06:15,95 --> 01:06:20,80
thing that's interesting is James has always
been pretty white community and Beloit

805
01:06:20,81 --> 01:06:26,66
has been more diverse. Racially because
it was sort of on the path of black

806
01:06:26,67 --> 01:06:30,78
migration from the south earlier in the
twentieth century there were some factories

807
01:06:30,79 --> 01:06:34,80
employed that were pretty hospitable to
these black families that were moving

808
01:06:35,18 --> 01:06:41,80
moving north. So Janesville
so there's no functional

809
01:06:41,81 --> 01:06:48,77
equivalent of Dion Hendricks and
Janesville and the question is What are

810
01:06:48,78 --> 01:06:50,26
the jobs going to be I mean there's

811
01:06:50,27 --> 01:06:54,86
a dollar general distribution center that's
coming to Janesville the last couple

812
01:06:54,87 --> 01:06:56,97
years and is employing

813
01:06:56,98 --> 01:07:03,88
a lot of people for not much money.
What's going to come of the property that

814
01:07:03,89 --> 01:07:09,03
spins Jim property up until recently
is like the big hovering question.

815
01:07:10,81 --> 01:07:14,51
So whether it's going to be light Maggie
factoring whether it's going to be more

816
01:07:14,52 --> 01:07:19,04
distribution centers where there's going
to be residential development I mean is

817
01:07:19,05 --> 01:07:23,08
just not clear yet so I
think that unknown is

818
01:07:23,09 --> 01:07:29,05
a big part of the answer to what
you're wondering. And the balcony.

819
01:07:30,74 --> 01:07:37,55
No I think we had right there
great Shannon Amy welcome to

820
01:07:37,56 --> 01:07:44,34
Traverse City from Michigan writers AMY
My question is we are being told that the

821
01:07:44,35 --> 01:07:51,27
economy is going to change that it
is going to probably change and not

822
01:07:51,28 --> 01:07:54,67
be as robust as it is
now so I'm wondering as

823
01:07:54,68 --> 01:07:57,47
a writer what it's like
for you to almost have

824
01:07:57,48 --> 01:08:02,62
a predictive quality based on all this
research you did in writing this book and

825
01:08:02,63 --> 01:08:08,13
what you think we should be looking at
to maybe prevent some of what you saw in

826
01:08:08,14 --> 01:08:12,85
Janesville. Disappoint you
can really bad profit.

827
01:08:16,40 --> 01:08:21,86
So let me answer in the context of
Janesville. You know sometimes I get asked

828
01:08:22,49 --> 01:08:25,60
shouldn't Janesville been prepared
for this I mean that's sort of

829
01:08:25,61 --> 01:08:31,77
a version of your question and local context
and you know it one point the story I

830
01:08:31,78 --> 01:08:38,63
mentioned that there was. A decision
few decades before the plant closed

831
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:40,71
by the Janesville city council to hire

832
01:08:40,72 --> 01:08:45,80
a consultant to advise about how to
protect the future the community and the

833
01:08:45,81 --> 01:08:51,96
consultants said Well you've got to diversify
and that struck people is like why

834
01:08:51,97 --> 01:08:58,60
would we do want to do that we've got this
huge thriving plant. So you know I say

835
01:08:58,61 --> 01:08:58,90
that as

836
01:08:58,91 --> 01:09:02,02
a way of and I'm really very bad profits I'm
not going to really answer your question

837
01:09:02,03 --> 01:09:07,12
but. You know I think it's very hard for
people in the communities to imagine

838
01:09:07,43 --> 01:09:12,68
a future that is different than their
past. And that's one of the things I've

839
01:09:12,69 --> 01:09:17,09
learned out of this work of trying
to understand one community.

840
01:09:20,77 --> 01:09:23,03
So it's hard for people to prepare

841
01:09:24,94 --> 01:09:31,26
a down note. For the one but still
interesting I think we have time for one

842
01:09:31,30 --> 01:09:36,83
more and your closest over here.

843
01:09:41,29 --> 01:09:47,96
Thank you Amy. Sounds like you had your
hands full with discovering the economics

844
01:09:47,97 --> 01:09:53,54
and all the metrics during your time in
Janesville and I don't know anything about

845
01:09:53,55 --> 01:09:57,81
change I've never even had
lunch there. Did you get

846
01:09:57,82 --> 01:10:04,19
a feel for the cultural assets in Janesville
and did they were they must've taken

847
01:10:04,20 --> 01:10:10,87
a hit music art theater
dance museums whatever and

848
01:10:11,01 --> 01:10:17,36
did that have any impact on how people
healed during the aftermath yeah so to

849
01:10:17,37 --> 01:10:18,88
actually for I mean chainsaw is

850
01:10:18,89 --> 01:10:23,99
a town of sixty three
thousand people. And there is

851
01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:29,41
a. A venue that for all
kinds of Performing Arts.

852
01:10:31,38 --> 01:10:37,92
Theatre comes to town I mean there's
local stuff. Music comes to town.

853
01:10:39,97 --> 01:10:40,30
There's

854
01:10:40,31 --> 01:10:46,66
a state fair that's there that actually was
year used to get like great acts of him

855
01:10:46,67 --> 01:10:46,78
for

856
01:10:46,95 --> 01:10:53,80
a good hacks. That as the economy
is kind of gone down has gotten

857
01:10:53,81 --> 01:10:54,91
so so so X.

858
01:10:54,91 --> 01:11:01,17
. So I think that is not.

859
01:11:03,20 --> 01:11:08,14
I think probably fewer people could afford
to buy tickets. But I don't think the

860
01:11:08,15 --> 01:11:13,71
town has been stripped of its cultural
resources entirely I mean one thing I think

861
01:11:13,72 --> 01:11:16,48
to say about that is
that even when there was

862
01:11:16,49 --> 01:11:23,48
a huge amount of job vanishing
going on because you could retire

863
01:11:23,49 --> 01:11:30,37
from General Motors after thirty years.
You know people who start out of high

864
01:11:30,38 --> 01:11:35,28
school started after couple years and
college going to factory work like middle

865
01:11:35,29 --> 01:11:41,84
aged people they're fifty. In their fifty's
when they were tired. And those people

866
01:11:41,85 --> 01:11:46,92
are still living in town with really good
pensions so there isn't enough I mean I

867
01:11:46,93 --> 01:11:51,99
think that's why the reasons why the town
doesn't. Like the pain is not on the

868
01:11:52,00 --> 01:11:57,51
surface as much because there is this
kind of continuity from people who've had

869
01:11:57,52 --> 01:12:04,34
these factory careers. And
still are supporting the

870
01:12:04,35 --> 01:12:06,64
resource of the community
offers just kind of

871
01:12:06,65 --> 01:12:12,32
a mixed bag I think thank
you so much for coming.

872
01:12:31,28 --> 01:12:31,33
In.