Transcribed from www.ShrinkRapRadio.com
Shrink Rap Radio #181, November 7, 2008. The Art of Engagement in
Organizations
Dr. David Van Nuys, aka “Dr. Dave” interviews Jim Haudan
(transcribed from www. ShrinkRapRadio.com by Jo Kelly)
Excerpt: “You know Aristotle said the soul never thinks without a picture;
so we do believe that when it comes to people having sort of their central
processing unit in their head and in their heart, that somehow more often
than not they create a picture of the world around them or around us, and
then how we fit into it. But I think when it comes to multiple people, what
we are looking at is that if a picture is worth a thousand words, then a
metaphor can be worth a thousand pictures. And what that means, is that
when it comes to having people really understand business systems, or
organizational systems, which are true - and any time people come together
- the ability to visualize that creates a common mental practice field or a
brain gym, so people don ’t spend all the time trying to interpret it, they can
spend all their time together figuring how we are going to improve it. ”
Introduction: That was the voice of my guest Jim Haudan, CEO of Root
Learning and author of the 2008 book, The Art of Engagement: Bridging
The Gap Between People and Possibilities.
http://www.rootsofengagement.com/
For the past 20 years, he has not only built a thriving business, but has
helped numerous individuals unleash their hidden potential. With origins as
a coach and school administrator, it’s easy to see what led him to co-found a
company dedicated to business learning. His innovative, creative methods
draw people into a business by tapping into basic human curiosity and
intelligence. By fully engaging people in their work, they become ready,
willing and able to deliver on company strategies, producing real results.
Root Learning has made the list of the Best Small and Medium Companies
to work for in America for four straight years - obviously, Mr. Haudan is on
to something. Jim is also a frequent speaker on a variety of topics and has
contributed to several business publications. When not travelling the globe
to visit clients, he enjoys relaxing with his family at their lake cottage,
playing golf, and going to Jimmy Buffett concerts.
Dr. Dave: Jim Haudan, welcome to Shrink Rap Radio.
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Haudan: Thank you David, it’s a pleasure to be with you today.
Dr. Dave: I want to talk to you about your book, your 2008 book which is
titled The Art of Engagement - Bridging the Gap Between People and
Possibilities. And I’m eager to explore all the implications of that title, but
let’s start out with having you share something about your background.
How did you get into all this?
Haudan: Well I actually have somewhat of an eclectic background. I have
been an educator with advanced business degrees, so I think the answer is,
that many of the things that I have found that have been successful in my
life, have been putting uncommon things together to create a breakthrough
perspective. We have artists and MBAs here, and I think it’s kind of a
fascinating approach to really create sort of this breakthrough and in this
case in the noise in many business organizations where people are not fully
engaged.
Dr. Dave: Yes, well it’s interesting that you have a background in
education; maybe that’s why I related to you and your book so well, since I
also have a background in education. And even though you are in the world
of business, your book is very psychological, and I think the thing that
grabbed my attention most about that title is the word “engagement”;
because I’ve been following the emerging field known as positive
psychology - 1 don’t know if you’re familiar with it - but the word
“engagement”, both with one’s pursuits, and with others seems to be a key
component of what’s called “the good life”. So tell us what you mean by
engagement.
Haudan: Well I think - and maybe this is a long answer - but in many
cases your comment about the pursuit of the good life, I think it’s just being
totally aware, in the sense of being totally revved up and in gear with your
pursuits and your endeavors. And I think the big challenge is that if you
look at a lot of people and their lives, there are many places where that just
happens naturally.
I’m fond of saying in the book that I’m a Jimmy Buffett fan, and a sports
fan, and I can’t imagine going to a Jimmy Buffett concert and being asked as
I go through the gate to put on my engagement glasses; or if I go to a World
Series game, given the World Series is going on right now, that we have to
be reminded as we go in to be engaged. Yet that natural engagement in
many areas of our lives does not easily translate or transfer into our business
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lives where we spend 40 to 50% of our waking hours. And to me there is a
huge opportunity there to ask why; and then to begin to find a better way.
Dr. Dave: Well why is engagement important in the business environment?
Haudan: You know I think what ends up happening is, that anything thaf s
successful in life I think is so because people provide the best of themselves.
Whether thaf s in an individual endeavor or a joint endeavor, if s how you
combine the best talents, and skills, and strengths of people into a unified
effort that really makes a difference. I think as I mentioned that happens not
only in the sporting and entertainment events I talked about, but it happens
at Cub Scout bake sales, at all kinds of parent activities, if s happening
everywhere; if s just not happening in the work life. And yet I thi nk the toll
on businesses and organizations is huge. By last count, just disengagement
in the US cost the US economy over four hundred billion.
But I think there’s probably even a bigger issue, and that is I think if you
really wonder or ask people what they’re really most fearful of, 1 think that
fear is that they just go through their life and don’t really realise how what
they do makes a difference; and 1 think engagement can change that.
So the essence of it is that we can not only engage people to get better
results in our organizations, but 1 think the sense of meaning and purpose
that comes from being part of something bigger than yourself is equally, and
in some cases more, important.
Dr. Dave: You know when you talk about engagement in this way, it makes
me think of jobs that I’ve had - you know before 1 got my degree and went
on to my career - and there were jobs that 1 had, and I’m sure everybody can
relate to this experience, of some jobs that we’ve had where we’re watching
the clock, and it’s not a high engagement job and time just crawls. Other
situations such as the work that 1 do now for example, creating these
podcasts, and also my market research consulting, there’s just not enough
time in the day. So that’s really a big difference 1 think, in terms of the
impact of engagement, is just your whole sense of time and excitement.
Haudan: 1 think so Dave; you know 1 think everybody has to work, but not
everybody has to provide the discretionary effort that really touches their
passion, touches their beliefs, touches their sense as 1 mentioned before of
purpose. And 1 think when we do that, as you suggest not only does time go
past fast, but it just becomes something that is much more enjoyable, and
that it really becomes more productive.
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Dr. Dave: Yes. Now you tell a story in your book; in the first chapter you
tell a hot dog story that I love. Would you mind retelling it here?
Haudan: Sure. You know I think the whole premise of the hot dog story
was built out of personal experiences; but you know Fm from Ohio, and Fm
also a sports fan, so in Ohio there is a team called the Cleveland Indians, and
the Cleveland Indians are a baseball team that I grew up being a tremendous
fan of The only dilemma was that they were just awful; and they were
awful most years. So as the season started you had just the beginning of the
season where you still had hope, but pretty quickly gave way to just despair
because they weren’t going to be any good again this year. As a matter of
fact, they were so bad that Hollywood made two movies about the Indians -
and they were spoof movies - it was called Major League 1, and Major
League 2, where it was the team that really couldn’t accomplish anything.
So the problem was, not only did I have this life of being a fan of the
Cleveland Indians, but I sort of infected my children with the same disease,
so they were also Indian fans; and I was never admired as picking a winner
every year because again one or two months into the season we were waiting
for the next year.
But finally in 1995 they made it to the World Series for the first time in 40
years. So if you can imagine just the excitement not only that I had but my
children had, in that for the first time in their lifetimes, and mine at that
point, they were going to be in a championship game. So we were not only
going to the game, we were the first ones in the gate. So we were there that
night, and it was a night game and it was surreal if you can imagine - some
of these events just become absolutely almost fantasy-like in terms of the
energy, and the excitement, and the anticipation. And everybody in the
stadium felt like they were brothers and sisters, and being more polite than
ever, and high fiving and we made our way to our seats. Just about the time
when the game was just going to start, I also had two gentlemen with me
from Mercedes that we had been working with, and just before that first
pitch of the first game
Dr. Dave: They were from Germany, right?
Haudan: They were from Germany, correct; and so it was just before that
first pitch, and that first game in the World Series for the Indians in 40 years,
they asked me if I could go get them some hot dogs. And I said, “Excuse
me? Don’t you realise this is the first time this team has been in this
championship in 40 years. It is absolutely a moment of great energy and
thrill; I have my children here. I really don’t care how much money you
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Spend with us but Fm not going to go get you any hot dogs. Sit down, and
relax, and watch the game.”
Probably about the third inning a friend of mine leaned over and said “I now
really understand what you guys do.” And I said, ‘What do you mean’. He
said, “Not only do I understand what you do, but I understand what you are
passionate about.” He said “It just all hit me. You know at the start of this
game there were 42,000 people in this stadium that really understood the
game. There was no need to explain it to them, they absolutely understood
the dynamics of it, how it’s played, they understood what was critical for
success, and they were absolutely waiting for that first pitch; and two didn’t
have a clue and they wanted to get a hot dog.”
He said “At the same point there were 41,998 that understood how to keep
score; they understood what were the efforts and activities necessary to
create score, and what were the ones to prevent score. And the same 41,998
understood the strategy, which at this point were the line ups for each team
to get put on home plate before the first pitch - was not something that was
just static, and you would check in a year later how it evolved - it was
something that after the first pitch all 41,998 people were talking about the
“what ifs”: what if this happens, what should we do; if that happens, what
should we do; what if this goes this way - how do we respond. And they
were absolutely captivated by the drama of this potential game; and
absolutely there were 2 who didn’t have a clue.”
And he said “In most companies we have 42,000 people. 41,998 who do not
understand the game; do not understand how it’s played, do not understand
how competition is changing, do not understand how competitors are
emerging, do not understand the essential value that we are trying to deliver;
they do not understand the villains and the heroes in that whole process.
And by the way there’s more drama in our businesses and our organizations
than there is in the sitcom Desperate Housewives but we just haven’t found
a way to really bring that to life.”
“The second thing is they really don’t understand how we are going to keep
score. In the business case: where the money comes from and where it goes
and how they can add more coming in, and how they can keep more from
going out, and how all that money is part of the circulatory system that
continues this body to move forward.” And he said, “And finally, most
people 41,998 people in the organization think that the strategy is something
that we give them, and that they ought to just go try it, and ifs just
absolutely static; and only the two remaining people in the organization
really understand how dynamic it is.”
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And I think the reality is that it is absolutely a call to action that if we can in
our recreational lives find 41,998 people that understand the game,
understand how to keep score, and understand the strategy is a starting point
not an end point, and that they play a critical role in responding to the
evolution of that, that it is something that can happen in business.
As a matter of fact, just to take it a step further: I mentioned that the absence
of engagement in business has cost the US economy 400 billion dollars last
year. There is another 10 billion that the US economy was short changed on
because of all the people playing fantasy football and fantasy baseball in the
US. And what that means is that there are people from four to ninety-four
that set up teams, that they choose players, that they play in a game, that
they get the results, that they modify their team, they modify their players,
they go back and play again and they are constantly in the game.
Just to show you the irony of all this: before the season was over, my dad is
eighty-two and I went over to his house to watch the Indians game and
unfortunately he had the Yankees game on. And he had it on, and I said
why are you watching the Yankees, we are Indians fans; and he said “I have
a fantasy player on the Yankees”. I said, I can’t believe it - turn the Indians
game on, this is what I really wanted to watch.
But the point being, we are so capable of understanding a game, of
understanding the score, at taking corrective actions, at enriching our lives in
the spirit of competition, the challenge, the sense of achievement; yet we
have not been able to do that in many of the places where we work, and
spend the majority of our time day in and day out, and week in and week
out.
Dr. Dave: Yes; I love the way your friend commenting on the hot dog event
kind of turned the numbers upside down; because at the baseball game the
great bulk of people were engaged, and there were two guys who were kind
of out of it and didn’t know the score, didn’t know what was going on.
Whereas in most organizations it’s the other way around: there are just a few
guys at the top who have the big picture, the big vision, and the rest of the
people are kind of blind because they are not engaged.
Let me have you tell another story that maybe builds on the same thing. It’s
the story in Chapter 2 about the three bricklayers.
Haudan: I think this one David is an interesting one, and the story goes: a
child goes up to a building site and asks a bricklayer what he is doing, and
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he rather perfunctorily says, “Can’t you see what I’m doing? I’m laying
bricks”. So his vision is very tactical in the sense of what he is doing is
clearly a job. The story goes: he goes up to another gentleman who is also
laying bricks and asks this gentleman what he is doing, and it is beyond a
job, and his response is, “I am building a wall”. So the child looks at what
he is accomplishing and what he is doing. Finally he goes up to a third
bricklayer, and he asks the gentleman what he is doing, and his response is,
“I am building a cathedral that will house many people for years, and allow
them to worship together, and allow them to come together to create great
deeds”.
And so I think the real question is: how do we really create a sense of what
we are about, in a way that allows people to truly see the outcome of what
their work and effort is. It’s interesting David, because I think the real
question is: whose responsibility is that?
I’m going to launch into one quick story on that issue: because I can
remember being with a teacher back to my education days. I remember
asking the teacher how she decided what to teach. And she said, “well I
teach according to the minimum standards - 1 don’t have a lot of flexibility”.
And I pushed her further: I said no really, how do you decide what to teach?
And she said, “well I teach to the minimum standards”. I said no: you are in
5* Grade, how do you decide what to teach? And she said, “well I have to
teach what is after 4* Grade and before 6* Grade”. And finally the fourth
time I pushed her: I said, I understand all that - how do you decide what to
teach? And she said, “well I teach what I like”. And I said rather simply:
what if what you teach is not what your students like?
And the whole answer to the question was really whose responsibility is it to
bring relevance to that classroom? And the same question is to that
bricklayers’ building site, or to our organizations where people work: whose
responsibility is it to bring relevance? We absolutely believe that the
manager and the leader has a unique opportunity to translate the stories of a
business into something that is relevant to their people. But the starting
point of that, almost in the spirit of employees as customers, is with the
individual; and not with - as the teacher said - “what I like”.
Dr. Dave: OK, these are great stories, and they seem to stress the
importance of everyone in the organization having the big picture, and that
is where the meaning comes from. Are there any companies that come to
mind that have been particularly successful at doing what you are
describing?
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Haudan: Yes, I think so. We have the Hilton brand in Hampton, is very
good at that. I think one of the things that is a challenge in any organization
where you have a franchisor and franchisee - which is a little different
flavor of what we have been talking about - is that you can go to your
respective comers, and have different polarized point of views. The
franchisor is trying to have a consistent brand experience for customers, and
the franchisee maybe trying to maximize their investment in the four or five
hotels that they own.
But the real question becomes: how do we come to a big picture about this
business that we really align on, and can co-drive to the success of the
business. And Hampton Hotels has been one of the shining lights in the
hospitality industry; and by looking at the big picture of the travelling
customer’s needs, and how those can be met, and how both the franchisor
and franchisee can respond to those - 1 think is one example where the
ability to look at the big picture together has really helped those two key
players in the Hampton brand to come together, and really perform
admirably and really have just an outstanding experience for many of their
guests.
I think another example would be Harley Davidson. Over the years Harley
Davidson has had ups and downs, but one of the things that Harley has been
very clear on is trying to take their business to their people. So in the
baseball story example: to make sure that they understand the big picture, to
make sure they understand the economic system; and quite frankly to also
make sure they understand what customers value the most, and how we can
get it to them. I think they have been over the years very successful at that.
There are a number of companies that I think have really caught on to this
concept of the big picture; and part of the reason for that David, is because
that can be a very fast language for organizations that are really trying to get
people to see the business as a system, not unlike baseball as a system.
Dr. Dave: Yes, and you say a fast language: we know that things are
moving very fast these days. And I want to underscore at one point you use
the word “organizations”: I want all my listeners, even if they are not
involved in some kind of big corporate business, we are all in organizations
of one sort or another, whether it is clubs or small business, or parent teacher
organizations, and I think a lot of the things you are saying - if not all of
them - apply to all sorts of organizations in our lives.
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There is a place where you outline four points that I think really are very
important psychological points that I agree with, and for which I think there
is a lot of scientific support. The points I am referring to are:
1) people want to be part of something big - that makes a lot of sense to me.
2) people want to feel a sense of belonging.
3) people want to go on a meaningful journey.
4) people want to know that their contributions make a significant impact
on the journey.
Haudan: Yes, I think David those are absolutely correct; and if I could just
touch on those really quickly.
This issue of being part of something big: when we ask people what really
engages them, they tell us it is part of something big and they can even
extend that further and say “being part of something bigger than myself’. I
think people are generally willing to endure personal sacrifice if they can be
part of creating something that doesn’t exist, and if that can be something
worthwhile, and meaningful and something bigger than just themselves, that
becomes captivating, it becomes compelling.
One of the unfortunate pieces of it, it goes right back to the bricklayers: in
many of our organizations it is not compelling to just lay a brick. You
almost have to say, what is compelling about that? ft might be a little more
compelling to build a wall. But 1 can’t imagine anything more compelling
than to think that you have a legacy that you have built an environment
where tens and hundreds of people will come together to unify and to create
meaningful impact in the world around them, in the sense of a cathedral.
And 1 think that is where we are missing it. We really stop short of
recognising that there is a huge value if we can translate what we are doing
in our organizations into something bigger than themselves that makes
sense.
The belonging one is interesting. What 1 think happens is, that we are in
times of unprecedented change; and the unfortunate fear, uncertainty and
doubt which comes up for a lot of people in times of unprecedented change
kind of knocks this sense of do 1 really belong here? And nothing will cause
people to disengage more than feel that it is no longer their team: because
they can’t perform, or they are not valued, or they can’t make the cut. So 1
think all of those things are real human emotions that we have to suggest
where we want to go in many of our organizations that we have never been
before, so we are going to have to build the bridge as we walk on it. But it is
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important to extend that emotionally to people, so that they know that the
organization is behind them, and that they are a part of it.
Dr. Dave: Yes.
Haudan: Then the third one is this purposeful adventure. It is that sense of
the exciting challenge that is really worthwhile; and many organizations we
have strategies - my gosh, I think we could take any organization’s strategy
and turn it into a video game - and we actually are doing this - and probably
get a lot of people to play it. The problem is they get locked in the caves
and closets of organizations so people don’t see it as a challenge, they just
see it as a brick again; and we lose the opportunity to just have this sense of
excitement that comes from accomplishment.
The final one: this whole belief and importance that you can see what you
do matters in the lives of other human beings. I was in Europe last week
talking about the book, and I had a rather unique experience. There was a
very large pharmaceutical company there, and a gentleman came up to me
afterwards and said, “I just want to tell you a little story”. He said, “I have
been doing leadership development in our company for the last fifteen years.
So we have taken every leader in this organization and put them through all
these different courses and with all due respect, much of it has been just
compliance based so that people could get their ticket punched”. He said, “I
want to tell you the last one we did, we tried something a little different: so
we brought in four hundred leaders and we put them in tables of ten - so
there were forty tables - and the teamwork activity was to have each of them
build a bicycle”. And he said, “to be honest with you, that wasn’t all that
different: they built a bicycle, and some struggled, and some did fine, some
were faster, some were slower, fights broke out, collaboration ensued and all
that. It accomplished all that we had hoped to accomplish from that
standpoinf ’. And he said, “but the part that we didn’t tell people was that
there were a bunch of disadvantaged kids in the lobby: and for every table
there was a child that had a number for that table, that would receive that
bicycle”. And he said, “When the session was over, they opened the doors,
and these kids came in; and the tables got to meet the kids, and get to see
this bicycle they just built and who it went to, and understand the difference
it made in that child’s life”. He said, “In all these years, I receive more
comments from just that one activity than I have in everything else we have
ever done”. And he said, “This whole idea, regardless of where you are in
an organization, that you can see how what your work does impacts the lives
of another person, cannot be underestimated”.
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It was just by coincidence that he told that story, but I think we forget - 1
don’t care how much money you make, I don’t care how many accolades
you have, and I don’t care how successful you’ve been - 1 don’t think we
can ever diminish the need to really continue to identify with the fact that
what we do matters, and especially if it matters to other people.
Dr. Dave: Yes, amen. Now you talked about disengagement, which is the
opposite of engagement; and you talk about something you call “the
disengagement canyon”. I don’t know if we have already covered that, or if
there is a little bit more you want to say about that?
Haudan: No, I think one of the great challenges is that in the book there is
a picture of this canyon. We drew the canyon in 1992 and we thought we
would probably put it away by 1993. Unfortunately, or fortunately it has
picked up speed every year since, and many organizations say, “Can you put
our name on that?”
And what it really shows are these canyons between the leaders of an
organization that can see what needs to be done, but don’t have their hands
on the levers of change every day; the managers that are the poor souls that
are stuck somewhere between the leaders - so they have to receive what
they say - and then the doers so they have to send to them something to do
and they are many times clueless; and then the doers that have their hands on
change every day but can’t see what needs to be done. So what you find,
and maybe even metaphorically, is that everybody is at a different altitude,
and everybody sees the problems that we face very differently. So we are
very fond of asking organizations to look at this picture which is in the book,
and say why don’t they, all players - leaders, managers and doers - see the
same thing, and what happens if they don’t.
And I do think this ties back to two things. One: the canyon is a natural state
- 1 think as long as the external environment changes it creates changes and
gaps between people at the different levels of the organization. But the
second one is: how important it is to create a common line of sight, or a
common language that cuts across all these altitudes so that everybody can
see the same thing and understand the same thing.
You know we have this wonderful saying, that is: “people will tolerate the
conclusions of their leaders but they will act on their own”; and the reason it
is so wonderful is because we have never found it not to be true. But if you
are going to change the dynamic of that, which means that everybody is in a
different comer, and that our conclusions are similar, then what we see in
terms of our businesses must be explored equally. So everybody: leaders.
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managers, and individuals must be able to see all the drama in our business;
and given the decency to compare and contrast, to check and recheck, to
unlearn and to relearn; and when they are given that opportunity 99.9% of
people come to very similar conclusions.
The problem is what each of us see is so different, our conclusions are so
different, that again these canyons get perpetuated.
Dr. Dave: Well it’s interesting how you approach this in your consulting
work. I have interviewed other people who do organizational consulting of
one sort or another. The thing that really leaps out at me as I look at your
book, that seems to distinguish your approach, is your emphasis on both
images and stories.
Why are these important, and give us an example about how you use these
in your consulting to an organization?
Haudan: Sure. I heard this, but I’ve never found it, so don’t quote my
quoting of it, but I think Steven Spielberg according to my recollection said,
“the only two things unique to human history are stories and games”. Now
whether he said that or not, I find there to be a tremendous amount of truth
in that, and I also believe there is a tremendous amount of opportunity. So
basically when we look at pictures or images, and especially when we look
at visualizing stories which again are metaphors, I think there is a couple of
interesting reflections.
The first is, you know Aristotle said the soul never thinks without a picture;
so we do believe that when it comes to people having sort of their central
processing unit in their head and in their heart, that somehow more often
than not they create a picture of the world around them or around us, and
then how we fit into it. But I think when it comes to multiple people, what
we are looking at is that if a picture is worth a thousand words, then a
metaphor can be worth a thousand pictures. And what that means, is that
when it comes to having people really understand business systems, or
organizational systems, which are true - and any time people come together
-the ability to visualize that creates a common mental practice field or a
brain gym, so people don’t spend all the time trying to interpret it, they can
spend all their time together figuring how we are going to improve it.
Now let me give you one quick example here, because we do this often and
why visualization can be so important. But if we had a room of 30 people
right now, and I said OK I’m going to say a word and I want you to just tell
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me what you think, and so the word is “bear”. And so David, Fm just going
to ask you: when I say “bear” what do you think?
Dr. Dave: Ah, a big black grizzly bear.
Haudan: OK a big black grizzly. Then I am going to go around the table
right now and just pretend people are here: and so the next person would say
“market”; the next person would say “trap”; the next person would say
“Chicago”; the next person would say “naked”; the next person would say
“feet”; the next person would say “polar”; the next person would say
“koala”; the next person would say “aspirin”; the next person would say
“panda”; and the last person would say “Teddy”. And I would say OK gang,
it’s time to go: let’s go execute that son of a gun.
And they would all at that moment just have this “aha!”, where that is
exactly what happens in many organizations. That is, this huge gap between
what we say, and what we mean; and if we can’t mean the same thing that
our efforts are often in conflict with each other, rather than in unison.
The true story is: I was at a 30 billion dollar company trying to visualize
their strategy with them, and the chairman couldn’t contain his excitement
and he said, “That’s perfect! That’s exactly it”. Then I saw the frown on the
vice-chairman’s face and he looked over and he said to the chairman, “Is
that the way you see it?” and he said “Yes. I can’t believe we didn’t do this
sooner”. And he said, “Then we had better talk because that is not what I
thought you meant, and that is not what I have been doing”.
And when you consider the resorces of a 30 billion dollar company and the
time and effort of the top two people that have gone towards trying to create
the direction of that organization and then enlisting the support of all their
people; that their meanings were not exactly the same, you just have to
pause and say “Wow”.
Then if you can come back and say, now wait a minute, if visualization has
the ability to ferret out interpretations and then lock on shared meanings,
maybe this could become a powerful language that could be consistent with
shared meaning across cultures, and morays and experiences so that people
can really - back to my comment about belong - see how they belong and
what we are trying to accomplish in this organization. And not be
whipsawed by every week a different interpretation of that, that creates
frustration and ultimately disengagement.
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Dr. Dave: Yes, as in your example with the bear, if we all have a different
image in our minds and we are all going to go racing off in different
directions. So what you do, actually concretely in your consulting work, is it
looks like you have a whole staff of artists: and that you actually bring them
into the discussion, and in a collaborative fashion with the group that you are
working with, you begin to have that artist create pictures and maps of the
organizational system that everybody
Haudan: Yes we do, and again it is an attempt to use visualization and data
and dialogue to draw out the opinions and attitudes, conclusions and beliefs
of people, so that they can be put on the table and merged into a common
mental model that has shared meaning.
The other thing that is interesting David, is that it is absolutely electric. I
don’t know how many of your listeners have ever been at a lounge, or a bar,
or at a restaurant where they picked up a napkin or a cocktail napkin, and
tried to convey something to someone next to them. And then they asked a
few questions, that person did and they changed it and they kept iterating it
on this cocktail napkin; well I don’t know but most people tell me that
doesn’t feel like work - that feels like creation and it feels like something
that is being built. So that is literally this concept of visual iteration, and the
reason that is so fascinating from a psychological standpoint: in most
organization teams, whether it is in a senior team or a small team in a
division, or just a work team - there are people with ego. Inevitably people
have different ideas about how we should do things, and what we find more
often than not, they vie for their ideas to win, and so sometimes that happens
under the table, sometimes that happens on the table but there are clearly
people that feel like there are winners and losers.
If you use visual iteration, not unlike a napkin sketch, as a group process
where everybody’s points and opinions count, and you continue to draw
them out both figuratively and literally, and create a common picture, it’s
amazing because two or three things happen. The first thing is the egos just
sort of disappear, and the childlike spirit of discovery reappears. The second
thing that happens is that when we ask whose picture it is, everybody claims
it’s theirs, so the ownership becomes broad and rampant. And then the final
thing: absolutely every time as people step back and look at it, they realize
that what they’ve created was never something that could have been created
by one of them by themselves; but it was the magic of the iteration and
collaboration and conversation between people that created something
unique and special. Which somewhat sets them on fire - because they feel
like now they’ve got a clear idea of what they need to go do together - more
excitement about the fact that it’s theirs, and quite frankly the ability to bring
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Others into it in a way that they can share that excitement and convey the
meaning.
Dr. Dave: Wow, this is so exciting to me. I have some background myself
in organization consulting and development, and meeting facilitation and so
on. It really moves things up a notch. Fve seen a lot of techniques that try
to move towards the kind of experience that you’ve just described, and some
with more success than with others. But this just makes so much sense to
me, the way that you bring in the visualization and the story telling.
I’m afraid that we are running out of time here. Jim, as we wrap up is there
any last thing that you would like to leave our audience with?
Haudan: Well I just think that the big opportunity is that in the US 70% of
our folks are disengaged, and I don’t think that it’s by choice. I think a lot
of our environments have created a sense of fear, and I think it does not have
to be that way. If we can tap into that dormant capability of our people we
can get a lot better business results. But the way to do that is to remember
that human beings work here, and to look around the places they are
absolutely ecstatic in their engagement, and see how can we steal some of
those and bring it to the workplace so that their sense of accomplishment is
equally high where they spend 40 to 50% of their waking hours. I think that
is a noble cause.
Dr. Dave: Well I tell you, I think if I were a young guy I would be
knocking on your door looking for a job to figure out how I could work with
your group.
Jim Haudan - thanks so much for being my guest on Shrink Rap Radio.
Haudan: It’s been a pleasure David, thank you.
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